I need some advice...
I bought an '05 s2r monster last year. I gave it an oil change and enjoyed it last season. Other than that I don't think it has had much, if any, service. I called a Ducati shop and they said I should flush the fluids and replace the timing belt. I asked for a rough estimate and they said it would cost me around $500 or so. That is a little too much for me right now.
What would you recommend for service at this point. I want to take care of the bike but I don't want to spend too much money. I can give it an oil change myself...but besides that I really don't know how to do other maintenance.
Is the timing belt a necessity at this point? And what about flushing the fluids?
It has about 6000 miles on it.
Thanks so much.
Here's what you're talking about:
1) oil change (easy)
2) brake and clutch fluid flush (easy)
3) valve check (involved)
4) belt replacement (kinda involved)
At 6000 miles, the valves should be checked. Because your belts are more than 2 years old, the shop was correct to recommend changing them. So basically, you're looking at a 12k service, which is in line with their price quote. You can wait til 7500 miles or later for the valve check if you're strapped for cash and don't want to do it yourself. The valves are more likely to be out of whack at 6k than later in the life of the engine.
If you have a basic set of tools, you can do the whole 12k service yourself. It's not rocket science, but will take some time. If you can change oil, you can do the service. Folks here can walk you through it and there are some good How-To threads with pictures (and some videos) about checking your valves and replacing belts.
Flushing fluids is not necessary (other than an oil change), but it's a good idea. Basically, you're just talking about an oil change and bleeding the brakes and clutch. Not a big deal to do by yourself.
Hmm at 6k you're due for a valve service too - so that might be part of that $500. $500 for belts and oil change seems AWFUL steep.
Chaing the oil and replacing the hydraulic fluids are both easy jobs - you should have no problem knocking hose out.
Belt change is a little more involved, but it's not very in depth
Here's a vid to help you guage
Ducatitech.com "HowTo" Ducati Timing Belt Change (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9vzPZ84ZRjU#lq2-hq-vhq)
- You should change the belts though. They are spec'd to be changed at 2 years or 12k. People push them longer, some times a lot longer. But an ounce of prevention blah blah.
Quote from: TimJohannsen on March 19, 2009, 08:46:42 AM
I need some advice...
I bought an '05 s2r monster last year. I gave it an oil change and enjoyed it last season. Other than that I don't think it has had much, if any, service. I called a Ducati shop and they said I should flush the fluids and replace the timing belt. I asked for a rough estimate and they said it would cost me around $500 or so. That is a little too much for me right now.
What would you recommend for service at this point. I want to take care of the bike but I don't want to spend too much money. I can give it an oil change myself...but besides that I really don't know how to do other maintenance.
Is the timing belt a necessity at this point? And what about flushing the fluids?
It has about 6000 miles on it.
Thanks so much.
I always thought that a belt change was a magical process, only to be performed by those shipped their first born to Italy. After watching that vid I'm not scared at all. The correct tension seemed to always be the unknown factor (frequency and all that shit).
Then there's the valve check/adjust. I get that. Fluids, check.
According to the manual the belt change is at 12k or after 2 years. So a 6k service is not a mandatory belt change if the belt is less than two years old, correct?
What about throttle sync? Can that be done by anyone, or are there computer diagnostic stuff involved? I've been told it's done at the first service and 6k, but the good old manual doesn't mention it until 12k.
video link doesnt seem to work...
Quote from: herm on March 19, 2009, 11:45:46 AM
video link doesnt seem to work...
Hit the 'LQ' option right below it - and it'll fire right up.
Quote from: OverCaffeinated on March 19, 2009, 11:00:24 AM
According to the manual the belt change is at 12k or after 2 years. So a 6k service is not a mandatory belt change if the belt is less than two years old, correct?
Correct. Tim's belts are 4'ish years old. So they exceed that age mandate, though they do not have 12k on them. Some folks have run belts for more years that 2, on bike that doin't see a lot of miles, but do see regular running. If the belts sit from long period in the same spot they can get stiff/brittle - regualr running help keep that from happening.
Quote from: yuu on March 19, 2009, 12:12:11 PM
Correct. Tim's belts are 4'ish years old. So they exceed that age mandate, though they do not have 12k on them. Some folks have run belts for more years that 2, on bike that doin't see a lot of miles, but do see regular running. If the belts sit from long period in the same spot they can get stiff/brittle - regualr running help keep that from happening.
Thanks.
changing the belts at the 2 year interval is a cheap insurance policy against the possibility of having them come apart on you...
Thanks. I know you're right. Better to be safe than sorry.
QuoteIf the belts sit from long period in the same spot they can get stiff/brittle - regualr running help keep that from happening.
I'm really not trying to be difficult, and I have a serious question. The cardboard packaging the belts come in holds them sitting at more of a tight bend than when they are installed. I've never noticed a date stamp on the wrapper, although there may be one. Is it possible that someone's new belts spent a year or two or more in various warehouses, between the manufacturer, wholesaler, and a low volume retailer? It seems very possible that you can buy a new set of belts that are closer to failure than the ones you're replacing.
My point is that I personally don't believe the belts are damaged by non-operation. It's the heat, acceleration and deceleration, and flexing from riding that will eventually cause them to fail if not changed. Extended periods of storage don't hurt them. Just one data point - of course not statistically valid - I have a friend with a 1980's Pantah who has changed his belts exactly twice in 25 years. I work with large fan drives powered by Gates belts and I've had numerous conversations with Gates engineers and no one I've talked to thinks that non-operation hurts the belts. It's using them that wears them out. Just throwing this out for the sake of discussion...
Quote from: Langanobob on March 24, 2009, 12:52:43 PM
I'm really not trying to be difficult, and I have a serious question. The cardboard packaging the belts come in holds them sitting at more of a tight bend than when they are installed. I've never noticed a date stamp on the wrapper, although there may be one. Is it possible that someone's new belts spent a year or two or more in various warehouses, between the manufacturer, wholesaler, and a low volume retailer? It seems very possible that you can buy a new set of belts that are closer to failure than the ones you're replacing.
My point is that I personally don't believe the belts are damaged by non-operation. It's the heat, acceleration and deceleration, and flexing from riding that will eventually cause them to fail if not changed. Extended periods of storage don't hurt them. Just one data point - of course not statistically valid - I have a friend with a 1980's Pantah who has changed his belts exactly twice in 25 years. I work with large fan drives powered by Gates belts and I've had numerous conversations with Gates engineers and no one I've talked to thinks that non-operation hurts the belts. It's using them that wears them out. Just throwing this out for the sake of discussion...
It's not the non-operation that's the issue - you hit it on the head with "It's the heat, acceleration and deceleration, and flexing from riding" - with the caveat that those things exacerbate the non use issue. Also bear in mind that belts in use are under tension. So between the stress of tension, heat, revolutions and flex the belts wear much faster than they would ever sitting in some storage facility (unless it's super harsh).
Of course there's exceptions to every rule. Your buddy might be exceptionally lucky, or we're all wrong and paranoid... but I've also heard unfortunate stories about belts on bikes that have sat for a couple years snapping at the turn of the starter. Who's right? who knows... And in the end it's your decision to make. I'll replace my belts regularly, as noted it's cheap insurance. I've seen the inside of a head from a Duc that lost a belt while a valve was open. The stem busted and the thing hammered around in the head before the engine could be stopped - made one hell of a mess
is the belt change technique (the 5mm allen key trick) sufficient for tension settings on newer bikes (s2r800) that have frequency setting specified? also, how do you turn the engine by hand?
Quotebut I've also heard unfortunate stories about belts on bikes that have sat for a couple years snapping at the turn of the starter.
Thanks for your reply. In spite of years of asking this question, I've never been able to document a single case of a belt failing due to age while still under the mileage limit - except for cases where the tensioner was too tight and the bearing failed, which in turn caused the belt to fail. Can you provide actual instances where you know first hand of a belt failure due to age, but under the mileage limit and not due to overtightening?
Most of the belt failures that I'm aware of have been due to tensioner bearing failure caused by overtightening. So, my premise is that by unnecessarily changing belts with low miles, a rider is actually increasing the chances of a belt failure since the probability of a tech or owner getting it too tight is a lot greater than the probability of a low-mileage belt failing.
I'm definitely not suggesting that anyone run their belts over the mileage limit. And, I don't really mean to be suggesting that someone not change their belts according to Ducati's recommendation. I'm just posting my own personal opinion on the subject of belt damage while not in operation. If the bloody things were so delicate that they took a set and stiffened up and weakened just sitting still, a new belt would not last 50 miles while running.
This is just nothing more than part of my own personal quest for internet truth [coffee] and I should probably just shut up [roll]
remember also..........the recommendation for replacement takes into account the manufacturers desire to avoid being held responsible for damage to your bike.
good, bad, or indifferent....keep that it mind
Quote from: Langanobob on March 24, 2009, 03:07:51 PM
Thanks for your reply. In spite of years of asking this question, I've never been able to document a single case of a belt failing due to age while still under the mileage limit - except for cases where the tensioner was too tight and the bearing failed, which in turn caused the belt to fail. Can you provide actual instances where you know first hand of a belt failure due to age, but under the mileage limit and not due to overtightening?
Most of the belt failures that I'm aware of have been due to tensioner bearing failure caused by overtightening. So, my premise is that by unnecessarily changing belts with low miles, a rider is actually increasing the chances of a belt failure since the probability of a tech or owner getting it too tight is a lot greater than the probability of a low-mileage belt failing.
Just anecdotal - mercifully I've never ad to deal with that directly. Of course being anecdotal evidence - there's lots of details missing. I totally agree that over tensioned or other wise abused belts is a more likely cause for failure than simple chronological age. There's a fellow around here I just found out is running around on a 750 with what are probably the original belts - so they are long past 2 years. On the other end, the DMFs seen a few shred belts on S2R1000s due to over tight belts.
Quote from: corey on March 24, 2009, 02:07:53 PM
is the belt change technique (the 5mm allen key trick) sufficient for tension settings on newer bikes (s2r800) that have frequency setting specified? also, how do you turn the engine by hand?
I don't recall exactly - but I think the engine being demo'd on in that video is a 620 which were made concurrently with the S2R800s - so in theory, yes it'll work.
There's a could ways. IF you feel the need for a tool, there's a crank turner. Basically a handle that goes though that little cover that's in the middle of your alternator case (left side of the engine) .
The other (cheaper) way is to put the bike in it's highest gear and turn the rear wheel.
I am an auto mechanic. I have seen belts burn out plenty of times on vehicles 10 years or more old with very low mileage, usually older customers. I have seen belts fail under a multitude of circumstances.
I have never ever seen a belt fail that I replaced. Never. Take that for what you will with all the thoughts of shelf life and other factors not one person has ever returned to me after I replaced a belt with it broken.
Quote from: yuu on March 24, 2009, 05:27:03 PM
Just anecdotal - mercifully I've never ad to deal with that directly. Of course being anecdotal evidence - there's lots of details missing. I totally agree that over tensioned or other wise abused belts is a more likely cause for failure than simple chronological age. There's a fellow around here I just found out is running around on a 750 with what are probably the original belts - so they are long past 2 years. On the other end, the DMFs seen a few shred belts on S2R1000s due to over tight belts.
I don't recall exactly - but I think the engine being demo'd on in that video is a 620 which were made concurrently with the S2R800s - so in theory, yes it'll work.
There's a could ways. IF you feel the need for a tool, there's a crank turner. Basically a handle that goes though that little cover that's in the middle of your alternator case (left side of the engine) .
The other (cheaper) way is to put the bike in it's highest gear and turn the rear wheel.
Right.. turning the wheel... idiot...
I use the wheel method with no problems. I've used to 5mm allen key setting without problems, but my newest is a 2000 model ~
JM
Quote from: corey on March 24, 2009, 02:07:53 PM
is the belt change technique (the 5mm allen key trick) sufficient for tension settings on newer bikes (s2r800) that have frequency setting specified? also, how do you turn the engine by hand?
Yes, I have an '03 Dark, same engine as the S2R 800. I use the 5mm allen key tensioning method and have no problems. One thing, check the tension a few times in the first few hundred miles because the belts do stretch and loosen up.
Scott
awesome.
sounds like i should just do my own belts...