Ducati Monster Forum

Anyone tried this device on their monster?
Urbane InTech Valve
http://www.visordown.com/news/article.asp?sp=&v=1&uan=6581 (http://www.visordown.com/news/article.asp?sp=&v=1&uan=6581)

I'm sure we'll have plenty of people who reply "it's snake oil" but I'm wondering if anyone has actually tried it. And since we now know that there are some medicines derived from snake venom I'd say we should revisit our definition of snake oil anyway.

Video of Tests
MCN
http://link.brightcove.com/services/player/bcpid1119137831?bctid=1315742466 (http://link.brightcove.com/services/player/bcpid1119137831?bctid=1315742466)

BBC News
Man shows carbon reducing valve (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/7953443.stm#id7950000/7953400/7953443)

If it seems too good to be true, it probably is.  If his claims were true and the technology has been around for 15 years, car manufacturers would have utilized it by now if it were useful.

Superior technology needs to be adopted, not just invented. There's a big difference in there.

Plus, car manufacturers brought us the Pontiac Aztec.

Not sure I buy it...

From what I can see this seems to be nothing more than a PCV valve. 

It would help in evaluating the product if they had actually described how it works.  [roll]

+1.  This product is bullshit. Nowhere can i find how it works. Not even a lay-explanation. New innovative product? Don't hide the ball if you want me to play.

It's easy to say this is bullshit, or snake oil, but then why would MCN give it such a glowing report. Lets just hope someone was not payed for the praise.

How can we believe MCN's glowing report without an explanation of how it works?

I'm a scientist man, I can't do that.  [cheeky]

As am I, and the more and more I look at it, the more it looks EXACTLY like a Vacuum check valve.

Yeah, the engineer in me doesn't buy it on advertising alone. Its like those "tornado" inserts for your car's engine. Riiiiiiiiggggggggggghhhhhhhhhttttttttttt.......

So if it IS nothing more than a vacuum check valve, could it have the effect described in the video?

All street legal vehicles come out of the factory with some sort of closed crankcase ventilation system, either a check valve, a fixed orifice, or, like we have on our Ducs, a reid valve system to control the crankcase gasses and deliver them back into the engine to be burnt rather than expel them into the atmosphere.  In other words, manufacturers have been doing this since 1963.

I got the impression that he was relieving cylinder resistance, not crankcase resistance which is why I'm confused...

I *think* it's a controlled air leak into the intakes, after the throttle bodies.

BUT, there's so much smoke and so many mirrors, it's impossible to know for sure.  [roll]

Other than lowering compression, volumetric efficiency or mechanically altering the engine, the only way I can see to lower piston resistance is to lower crankcase pressure, could be wrong.
That's a possibility.  It wouldn't work so well in these days of lean mixture and closed loop.

Here's what I've found during a brief investigation:

It's nothing more than a vacuum bleed that operates when the throttle is closed. Basically it lets air past the throttle on engine braking, which in turn reduces engine braking. It's also sucking this air from the crank, which in turn reduces crank pressures and can boost HP by a very, very small amount (once the throttle is open, no more vacuum, crank quickly gets pressurized again)

If you're after reduced engine braking... well why not simply set your idle higher? I suppose this could be a PITA for street riding, so there's some value here.

Now here's where I think the snake oil comes in:
During Hp measuring on a dyno the engine is left to slow in gear so they can measure power loss on the drivetrain to measure "true" brake HP.
This valve is going to seriously reduce engine braking by creating a vacuum in the crank. When read on a dyno, it's going to make it look like they've reduced engine braking. The dyno would read this as a reduction in power loss through the drive train. Giving a false reading of more crank bhp.

Basically, this is really only going to be "adding power" when the throttle is closed.

What's wrong with this picture?

And where is the significant emissions gains?

I hear snake oil is very clean burning  [laugh]

I probably lowers the ammount of oil geting above the piston. It could also lower wear on your rings by not having them slam up upon vacuum.  It might work as advertised.

Tim

The problem is that increased vacuum in the crank would increase blow-by from combustion... But yeah, I guess this could prevent oil from making it's way past the rings and into the combustion chamber.

But again, this is only going to help motors with shot rings during engine braking. And I can see this "blow by" valve potentially sucking up (and burning) engine oil.

Still, as an engine braking reduction tool, it has promise.

By keeping the throttle closed at all times your fuel economy will soar - consequently lowering emissions as you use less fuel.  [roll] ;)

Looks like a controlled air leak in the intake. And, from my IC Engines class...

Engine breaking would be reduced because the bike isn't trying to suck air past the almost/completely closed throttle body. 

A carb'd bike, might see some fuel economy increases at part throttle due to reduction in pumping losses (energy spent to suck the air into the engine)... but I would think that the greater effect would be to reduce overall airflow through the carb preventing proper fuel mix, reduction in power, and burn issues at all throttle positions.

A FI bike, the ecu would be constantly adjusting to keep the air/fuel in stoich.  So you would have the full amount of air going into the engine, and the ecu pumping enough fuel through the injectors to keep the bike at stoich... and I'd say you'd have a problem where either 1) the fuel pools in the intake runner / valve area or 2) the bike continues to produce near full power assuming the fuel vaporizes and makes it into the cylinder.  Imagine letting of the throttle and the engine not slowing down  :o

Either way, it's a bad idea.

I'll bring the idea up to my IC-Engine professor and give a much better and more detailed explanation of why it's totally ridiculous.