Ducati Monster Forum

UPDATED May 28, 2008: So I've now put on about 100 miles into the rearsets and everything is great and functioning properly. I really don't feel much difference in the shifting. I'd say it's very similar in shift action and same amount of pressure needed to up/down click as the stock rearsets required. (I've read some say they feel a more firm or positive shift, but I always ride with my A* boots on so the difference in feel may not be there for me)

I do notice the .5" to .75" in rise-and-back repositioning though, but since I've only ridden on highway and to the local starbucks so far, I can't comment much on the good/bad in the new height. I'll have an answer for that when I hit the the twisties (aka Hwy.9 for the Mobsters) this weekend or next.

Also, the heel guards (both left and right) are a little distracting to me. I was really use to having nothing there before and I really like turning in my heels - to the point where my boots were basically touching the swingarm. I may end up tossing the shifter-side heel guard later, but the brake-side cannot be removed since the master cylinder needs all the protection it can get.

(pics of post install still to come)


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I ordered these yesterday and it's here already. Just thought I'd post some pics...

(http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j61/go_johnny_go/ducati/sato.jpg)

(http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j61/go_johnny_go/ducati/sato_brake.jpg)

(http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j61/go_johnny_go/ducati/sato_shift.jpg)

(http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j61/go_johnny_go/ducati/sato_pegs.jpg)

ooh...very nice!

do you mind telling us what you paid and where?

Sato looks the best.
Do you know if the missing elastic bushing will cause any vibration "problems"? I mean, have you heard anything about it?
Is there a provision for the brake light switch on the Sato?

That is tempting,really nice.Price?

get on the phone and tell them you want to order the heal guard for the right side.  I had mine in 3 days.  great people they are.

These were purchased from the local dealer in Mt. View, California where I bought my bike, $520 + tax.

what missing elastic bushing?? i don't know anything about a missing bushing, but the kit came with a bag of parts/hardware that includes several plastic spacers. it also came with a wiring kit for the brake light.


how much for that?

do the Sato's allow for adjusting the peg down and back?

i believe the most down-forward position is closest to stock setup. from there, it only goes back and up.

fricken nice!

of course we need 'after installation' pictures...and...then a ride review; the complete experience.

well done  [thumbsup]

From these pics, it would appear that these rearsets do away with any form of vibration isolation.
The std and cycle cat rests have rubber isolation between the bracket and the engine and the afore mentioned elastic bushing at the swing arm pivot shaft connection.

Hopefully yours are a matching set. Mine & a few others seem to have been mis-matched. Right side foot peg seems to be about 1/2 inch higher then left side at identical settings.

Hi all,

I have been reading with interest all the threads about rear sets and was wondering from those who have done the upgrade what do they think the real positive benefits are?  Looks, adjustment options for comfort, performance of operation?  Or a combination of a few other things.  They certainly arent a cheap bling option, and given the engineering I suspect it is a lot about function.

So enlighten me please.

Bret

This is what I posted on the "OTHER" forum:

"I though I would share my findings... I was having an issue with my Sato right rearset and the lack of Heal guard. My boot was rubbing on the brake extension that Sato provided. It was rubbing and finally worn through exposing some wires... I looked around my garage for some carbon or some metal I could use to protect the brake cylinder, but with no success.

The Sato Racing rear set does not come with a heal guard for the S4RS, since the stock exhaust is there with some carbon heal plate on the pipes. Well, some of us have removed the exhaust and are running with just the bladder...

I called Sato (CAli-TEL 831-899-1822) and ordered a Black Heal guard off a 998. In looking at the picks off their website that heal guard looked the best. Anyhow, they sent me one with the part number - HEEL GUARD #6 BLACK. For all I know this is the same one as the left heal guard on my S4R. I do not really care since it works and looks nice... Finally, the right side looks finished. It seemed as if something was missing. They provided me with some longer screws too. I did not ask for them either, but I was going to need them. That was cool!!!

Hope this helps anyone here. Ride safe...

Oh, the Heal guard came to $57.11, with tax... "


(http://www.ducatimonster.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=79391&d=1210102735)
(http://www.ducatimonster.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=79387&d=1210102735)
(http://www.ducatimonster.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=90103&d=1210104078)

yup- what ICON said  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Thanks Icon and C_Rex... I've contacted my dealer and they're going to call Sato to check/order for me.

From your photos, I see exactly what you mean. I really like to ride with my heel turned in toward the swingarm and that would definitely cause a problem.

I was curious about this when I installed my rearsets. I figured it wouldn't be such a big issue since no one really complained about the Sato's rearset.

After a few rides in the canyon I noticed my left rearset was vibrating a bit but didn't think much of it. Prior to the next trip out into the canyons I did an inspection around the bike and noticed the main bolt that held the rearset snapped. I tighten the bolt at about 55Nm. Which I got from the S2R workshop manual. When the new bolt came in I tighten it to the same spec of 55Nm. Took it out for a spin and noticed the same vibration but this time it was very minute.  I also found out the rear swingarm was not traveling much. It was really stiff. No wonder it was a bumpy ride. The recommended torque setting was too tight restricting the swingarm from moving freely.  I dropped the torque setting down to about 30Nm and all is well. No broken bolts and the swingarm is moving.

So do not over tighten this bolt!

Here are a few photos.
(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3087/2500080957_d0ecc9b576.jpg)
(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3227/2500082451_67d6e9558e.jpg)
(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2015/2500913874_528734eb46.jpg)

hi all--first post in THE forum.  glad to be here.
anyone know who might have a set of sato's for the SxR in stock...tried a few places to no avail.
thanks!

You can try contacting Dan Kyle. He's one of the distributors for Sato Racing

Dan Kyle: dan@kyleusa.com
Telephone
(831) 394-1330
(866) 667-4925 Toll Free

or maybe call Sato directly? 

If you call Dan Kyle he normally keeps lots of spares in stock at all times. I ordered a set of these and need to get them put on tonight. Definately a work of art.

Curious,,,,,,,,What ever happened to the Mis-matched height settings on the Sato Rearsets for the S4Rs?

Never got an e-mail response from CA Cycleworks... 

Hmmmmm. I did phone Kyle's Racing about a month ago. They phoned back & said that the Sato Rep/wharehouse was closed. They suguested that I take Pics of my bike showing measurements & discrepancies. I havent bothered yet,,,,,,,,,,maybe cause I am lazy,,,or ,, just got use to it.

i picked up my right-side heel guard (part #6) today from the dealer and it's identical to the left side. thanks again for the part number, icon.

i'm going to install it this weekend so i'll be sure to take some before and after measurements of the height of each side.

Install is complete and there's a PROBLEM!

All the hardware is on and I installed the brake light assembly that came with the Sato kit and then continued to bleed the brake, but to no avail. All the air bubbles are out of the pump hose and yet there is barely any resistance/pressure from the lever. I tried several times bleeding the brake but it doesn't get "stiff" enough - I can still spin the rear wheel with my hands when I apply pressure  to the pedal. Just to be sure the brake fluid bleed kit was working properly, I tried bleeding the brakes on the Honda 600RR and it worked without any issues at all.

Also, the brake light does not work when I apply pressure to the pedal. BUT I think that has to do with the resistance in the cylinder. Since there's really no resistance, the light adapter isn't being activated. I'm guessing this is a correct assumption?

Has anyone had problems bleeding the rear brakes after installing the Sato kit, using the light adapter? Any suggestions?

FYI the rear brake on the Rs is really soft and useless IMHO.  Two things to check for; moto is turned on, make sure the wires for the brake light is secured and adjust the plunger to its maximum height.  Hope this helps.

Hi guys

My two cents: You must remove the rear caliper and turn it upside down when you bleed it.  This is necessary even with a mity vac.

I also broke the left side alloy bolt while riding. After the second time I bought titainium bolts and washers and torqued them to 55 Nm with blue locktight. This has been working well with no binding to the swingarm.

RIP DML

yes i agree my brakes were already really, really soft to begin with but not to the point where i can still spin the wheel while the brake pedal is engaged though, right? and i must have played with the plunger length about 5-6 times (i.e. the number of times i tried bleeding it) but none of the different plunger lengths worked.


thanks, i will try that. so the bleed fitting should always be pointed upwards?

Sounds strange.

Is the acuator pumping any fluid at all ? Loosen(just a tiny bit, just enough for fluid to escape) that 14 mm nut at the top of the acuator. The one below where your brake light indicator wires are. Push your lever down slowly & hold. Tighten nut. Release foot lever. Loosen nut. Push down. Continue with that procedure repeatily.,,,,,,IF,, your not getting some fluid to leak pass the loosened 14 mm nut,,,,THEN,,,,, your actuator is likey stuck,  & not stroking,,, or,,,, your brake fluid resovoiris empty.  I know,,,,,,I am brilliant,,,U can thank me later ;D. Hopefully U have this resolved already.

PS: My back brakes work fine,,,,,I can lock up the back wheel ,,NO probs. Going to a Slipper clutch has change my braking style considerable

How?

(My bike is the S2R800 which has the slipper clutch, never had anything else, so I don't know the difference. Educate me?)

your bike doesnt really have a slipper clutch, it only mimics the features of it. It is originally designed to lessn clutch pull, so if you do apply alot of force on it, it will slip and casue your rear to break loose.

with an real slipper clutch you can basiclly bang the gears down without the rear wheel chirping. You are suppose to clutch, blip, downshift. If you dont blip, or ease the clutch out, your bikes tire will try to catch up to the engine and cause it to break loose. With a slipper you can unload gearbox, downshift, continue.

APTC slipper clutch - it says so  >:( ???
Are you saying that it DOESN'T slip when hard/mistaken downshifts AND that it can slip if I apply too much throttle, let's say out of a turn?
-and wouldn't that be strange considering Ducati calls it a slipper clutch?

My apologies for the blatant thread jack - I will avoid it next time.  :-[

I do have a "Corse" Slipper. Previously I used my gear box more as a brake. Now I have to get acqainted with more of the feel for the back brake.

Yes it does slip. No or very little engine braking. No "Stopintime" the clutch does not slip when accelerating(at least not yet)  :)

Oh ya,,,its a different feel not being able to use the gears as a back brake. Cant bump start the bike either :(.

Oh,,,,,,,,S4RSSS. Trying my method now may not be the right aproach. U may have induced some air into your line already. So a full line bleed is probably nessecary.

Can you jam down two gears and just let your hand off the lever without the rear wheel locking? If you can then you have a slipper clutch.

A slipper clutch is the best mod I have done, as JDS has stated, you have to modify your braking and riding style to take full advantage of it.

BTW I can lock the rear wheel with the brake, in fact to easily.

I have no experience with the Sato's, but it looks as though the broken bolt shown in the pics is the OEM Ducati part, this is the point where both the std and Cycle Cat brackets are fitted with the anti-vibration bush.

Yep, 2 gears no back wheel lock-up. It is a Slipper. I installed it myself.

Back to the OP. I bet S4RSSS found out what was wrong. Perhaps the push-rod wasnt seating into the Acuator. It has to be something simple. Even with air in the lines U should have squishy brakes !!!!

TURNING THE CALIPER UPSIDE DOWN DID THE WORK.

Thanks guys, I got it to bleed correctly and the brakes are working now, it's still very soft (i still can't get the rear to lock up), but a tiny bit better than it was compared to before. Also, the rear brake lights work now, and I do think it was dependent of the brake pressure applied in the m.cylinder.

Now for the height measurements before and after. The measurements are from the floor to the bottom of the pegs (not the levers). Also, the bike was on the rear stand.

Clutch peg to ground-
stock: 11 1/8"
Sato: 11 5/8"

Brake peg to ground-
stock: 11 1/2"
Sato: 12 1/4"

at stock setting, the right reaset was already 3/8" higher than the left. after the Satos were installed, that difference became 7/8".

I went through two cans of dot4 before a search on the old dml clued me into the upside down trick. It sounds like you still need to rid some air, it should be rock hard.

Ride safe

Your rear wheel WILL slip when you bang the gears down too hard (hence why its not a 100% slipper clutch, yes ive seen it happen a few times) Not trying to thread jack, I just dont want someone to start ripping gears thinking their rear wheel will never spin with the APTC clutch system, because it will. especially if you down shift really hard. If you look at ducatis advertisement as well as reviews on their clutch, they like to say "slipper" clutch, or slipper clutch like features, or acts like a slipper clutch.

The unit JDS installed is an aftermarket device. I think the APTC only works on wet clutches since they are only found on the 695 and S2R800.

</theadjack>

a little note on bleeding, you can try to turn the pee cup and lever up right to help move the air, just becareful to not shake it and get bubbles into the resovoir. But then again, the rear brake is so useless  i wouldnt be worried about it.

thanks, i might rebleed it some more, or just completely flush it out. the rear brakes came very soft from the factory already, and i just never cared much since i dont use the rears much.

pee cup and lever, meaning the vacuum tool? turn them upright?

Do you know where the resovior connects to the master cylinder? If you still have that piece hanging around, you can pick it up and move it around so if there are any air bubbles, they will get dislodged.

I went back and read your post, did you put any clamps on the rubber hoses? Air could be sneaking in somewhere.

+1 on that request. my problem with my pegs are that they are a hair to short. but i always hear that if they were any longer that they would drag on the ground when cornering. maybe not with me riding them but maybe with one of you rockets at the helm. i am going to be interested in a complete review of these pegs. i like the black but i think i will just powder coat mine instead. much cheaper

the ron [evil]

The ATPC clutch is a slipper clutch.  There is no real or fake slipper.  There are different types.  Aprilia uses engine vacuum, but it is still a slipper.  The more conventional slippers such as yours are available with different ramp angles to control the amount of back torque.  Is that to say that the one with less of a ramp angle is not a "true" slipper?  I don't think so.  Downshift with enough revs and hamfist the clutch and you will get some rear chatter on almost any setup.

Adjustability, fixed foot pegs, and deep knurling on the pegs.  It is all designed to give you a better purchase on the bike.  I have the Sato's on my 1098 and it made a huge difference.

yea, the hoses are clamped, on both ends. they came clamped from the factory.

How R U making out with those brakes? When working properly U should have no problems locking up the back wheel. Its not going to be as sencative as the front brakes (thank god) But I have never had a street bike with properly functioning brake that couldnt lock up the back wheel.

At about 50mph I went from 4th to 2nd and let go of the clutch lever. A few yards of rear chatter, so not fool proof anyway.

One thing that got me: I installed rearsets on a 900ss and when I was done, the rear master cylinder wouldn't pump up. Turned out that the push pin from the lever never fully released! When the master cylinder was relocated, the after market rearsets had it closer to the brake lever than the oem one ... but only by a little. Loosened locknut then shortened until there was detectable gap.

??
Chris

That's a little misleading...

We had a full conversation. The last I recall, John was going to check the set he installed on a customer's bike. As far as I am aware, Sato doesn't know about the problem and I was attempting to get a dialog going with Sato US and you, however, it fizzled out.

I'm sorry you feel we dropped it, however, we are quite busy... support is a 2 way thing -- we need your participation, too. Once we reply to a conversation, it gets buried instantly. Then it bubbles back up with replies from vendor or customer. I know "how it should be" with a full team dedicated to customer management, however, we're currently a bit stuck in the current system while I work on upgrading in "spare time".

Thanks,
Chris

Fark,,,,,,I just did the same thing. Or, I just noticed that my left side Main bolt is broke. Not sure how long its been like this.

Hey S4RSSS,, How did U make out with that back brake?

they're definitely better than it was from the factory (or the dealer), but they still do not lock up.

At a track here, there is a very tight 1st gear hairpin bend preceded by a short straight that is flat out in 5th, I'm on the brakes hard and bang the box down to first clutch out in one movement, I have never experienced and rear wheel hop or lock up, prior to fitting the slipper I was sometimes out of control at this point with the rear wheel hop. The slipper improved my lap times immensely. I can conentrate on geeting round without having to compensate for the rear wheel getting out of shape, the best mod I have ever made.

now i REALLY want a slipper clutch  [moto] ... dangit... slipper or a QuatD midpipe and a re-map... decisions-decisions.

A lightened flywheel can accomplish much of the same. Note that slipper clutches aren't for regular street riders. They're great for bike night, but in 10k miles, the basket and/or hub can be all torn up. My 2 cents is to try a light flywheel first to see if it gets the job done well enough for your riding and try to stick with it. Taking 4ish pounds off of the already very heavy crank assembly lets the engine rev up easily enough that it normally doesn't unhitch the rear wheel when down shifting.

imho, the newer Ducatis aren't as bad as the older ones... on my 96 916, the flywheel effect was so bad that the first time I rode it at willow springs, I almost drove off turn 1 from the rear wheel hop. And I was being pretty careful given it was new to me ... and had plenty of experience on the track already with my previous 900ss (that had a light flywheel).

Racing? Do whatever floats yer boat. That's a different reality entirely. ;D

Some function in the Junction isnt right. A stupid question,, but, Are U pulling the clutch in while applying the back brake ? I would get your dealer to fix that "FOR FREE"

sorry--a little ON topic... trying to install the sato right side heel guard on my s4rs.  the rear master sticks out and will not allow the heel guard to lie flat against the master cylinder holder.
did those that have installed the right side guard have any problems, and if so, what did you do?
thanks!!

A few washers will do the trick.  I left mine as is and its fine

yea, i just used some extra washers i had laying around. (i for each bolt was perfect)

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,361382,00.html (http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,361382,00.html)

never mind-- I realized that the heel guard shares the bolt holes with the master cylinder.  I was trying to put it in the same position as the left side guard.
I'll leave the comments about the above post to others...