Ducati Monster Forum

Hello all,

Just wondering if i should be apprehensive about getting my new monster (yay) on the road in its current rubber.
It was raining when i went to pick her up, and she has pirelli dragon supercorsas (i think thats the name), The PO
told me that they are meant to run on a hot racetrack and would be hard to handle in the cold street, and like ice in the rain.
I have a bit of experience but its been 5 yrs since i had a bike, and i have a lot of re-learning to do.

well its dry today, and ive ridden her a bit. (very happy) but ive been keeping her upright, terrified to lean over and lose my grip
on the cold race compounds, its in the 50's and low 60's here this time of year. Brand new pirelli diablo SS arrive next tuesday!!
a whole week!!

thoughts?

thanks much in advance. Redialed

If they're Supercorsa Pro's, they are OEM street tires on the 1098S (I believe)

You will probably be fine if that's the case ...

Adam

They will probably take more time to warm up than normal tires are not stick well unless they're constantly pushed a bit.  Be aware of heavy throttle application while leaned over ~

JM

thanks a lot for the quick replies guys

sounds like ill be fine for the week, taking it easy, until my street rubber gets here

thanks and cheers!

off to ride!!

Good on you for getting new tires.   [thumbsup]  There are a few reasons not to run race tires on the street.

1)  Race tires can't get up to temp on the street.  Even riding aggressively, you'd be hard pressed to get those to grip as well as a street tire.  I've run track take-offs on the street and it's not a great idea.  They're ok for commuting, but not ideal in the twisties.  I've had some scary slides.

2)  The *last* thing you need as a new rider is to lack confidence in your tires.  As a new rider, you need to learn to trust your rubber.  You'd be shocked at how far over you can lean the bike and still have it stick.  But you only get to that level if you have confidence.  Having tires on your bike that limit your confidence is just going to hold you back.

3)  Being scared on your bike makes it less fun to ride.

4)  You'll likely spend more replacing crash damage with a lowside than you will getting new tires.

More information about your tires ...
http://tinyurl.com/dme3wa (http://tinyurl.com/dme3wa)

Not really designed for sedate street speeds ...


... Unless you get a pair of tire warmers!  [evil] [evil] [evil]

Adam

Take it very easy on those.  If you are going to run them on the street before you get your new ones I would also lower the tire pressure to get the heat up faster. 

great question OP, thanks for bringing this up.......other new riders like myself can benefit from this kind of info

They still won't heat up sufficiently at all, particularly if he's a new rider and particularly if it's 50-60 out.  There's just no way to get them to operating temps.  Think about the lap or two it would take to heat them up on the track at 50-60.  You'd be pretty cranked over, turn after turn after turn, with WFO acceleration and hard braking.  I bet he (along with the vast majority of us) never ride on the street like that even for a few turns. 

Just don't run race tires on the street.

Bring the bike back to the shop and politely ask for your money back, it's obvious you don't need to be riding a motorcycle.

Huh?

what's that all about?

 ???

Adam

 [roll]  way to help a new rider learn.

Agreed that these are not the best tires for the street unless you ride very hard.  I used to run takeoffs on the street as I could get them really cheap untile I lowsided on them.  They were great when really pushing them in the canyons but absolutly horrible when cold.  Came out of work late one night, took a right turn at normal speeds, spun up the rear tire up and down I went.  Just be careful and you will be fine until your new tires come in.

Dude what the make the beast with two backs?  Its a very relevant question and he came to the right place to ask. I guess your Gods gift to motorcycling and have never had a question about this sport/lifestyle. Whatever it is get over your power trip.

OP, welcome to the forum and back to the two wheeled world. Race tires bring the suck when cold and given your experience, you will not be able to get them warm enough. The tires you ordered will be perfect for you. Sometimes it sucks having to wait to ride but you'll make it through. Good luck with the new bike.

thank you very much everyone except crankymonster

 [laugh] [laugh]  [moto]

Adam

There are many myths that constantly float around the 'net as fact. Here's some interesting reading material on warming up tires and running "race" rubber on the street...

http://www.sportrider.com/ride/RSS/146_0810_how_to_warm_up_new_tires/index.html (http://www.sportrider.com/ride/RSS/146_0810_how_to_warm_up_new_tires/index.html)

If you get rid of those tires and they have decent tread, I'll be more than happy to take them off of your hands. I have no problems at all with running track tires on the street. I've burned through several Pirelli Supercorsa Pro SC2 tires without any issues.

Also, don't forget when you get your new tyres fitted, they will have release compound on them from the molding process, so they will be slippery until you done some miles (50 to 100) When I put new tyres on a bike I stress to every customer many times to take it easy for the first 100 to 200 Klm's until the compound has been worn off.

Yes, take it easy to get the goo off. I've been told that each time I picked up new tires, and Alain at Corse Motorsports in Nashville was always keen on reminding you that even after you got the bike home from the shop, the next ride you'd need to remind yourself, because you likely hadn't gotten it all off yet.

Ignore this guy /\ /\ /\. I'm familar with him from the CDC he's a complete douche'-nozzle.  [roll]

<mod>

Let's not go there, OK?

</mod>

More like CRANKYmonster.  Sorry, no decent input as I've only run a couple of pairs of Diablos, but I dig them so much luck on the street tires. 

thanks for the tip about the goo. i will definitely keep in mind.


to update, im getting more confident on the dragons, they arent so bad in the dry. I rode to work this morning in the rain, and while it wasnt exactly pleasant around turns (probably just me freaking out more than anything the bike did) it seemed to be alright taking it easy.


Another question: i went to my duc shop, where on the wall it said "recession buster, buy tires get them mounted for $1) which had me thinking moto mounting is even cheaper, or on par with car tires.

i asked how much if i brought tires from home, they quoted me $90 for both!! just to mount~!!! i waited for the guy to start laughing but he did not. is this unreasonable? or are moto tires harder to mount than car tires. Im inclined to just buy a moto tire mounting stand as they are like $100 and would pay for itself if i managed to get rubber on my wheels even one time.

thoughts?

They are unreasonably high to mount if you bring in your own to discourage you from not buying them there. Think of it as "helping out the local guys" (I know its a bummer).

For rain riding, your confidence will be higher if you make a game of being as smooth as possible on gas and brakes (esp. around turns). The only way to lose traction is for something to abruptly change, jerking the throttle open or closed which would upset the suspension, etc.

If you have a Cyclegear nearby you can take the wheels off and they will mount em for 60.

what little street riding I do, I take it easy til i get to whatever fun road i'm heading to then i let her loose...
I grew up with roads around me that many racers use for practice when its not busy. Since they are technically an OEM tire you should be ok, but something to consider with race tires is that they're only designed to come up to temp and then cool pff so many times. this is called a heat cycle. the more heat cycles a tire has on it, no matter how much tread is left, they'll get slippery. They just aren't designed to withstand the heat cycling that street tires are.

I've run the Dragon SuperCorsas on my ZX10 and overall i was happy with them. But I think i'll stick with the Pilot Power 2ct for a while longer. until i decide to fork over the dough for some Power Ones

Is the $90 with the wheels on the bike? If you can take off the wheels yourself and bring them in it should be much cheaper. I just did this at my local duc shop and they charged me $25 a tire. So $50 for the set.

That's about the norm.  I always pull my wheels & take them in.  $25-$35 at the local shops ~

JM

Race tires.  I know guys that always put race compounds on even though they never go to the track.  It's so they can say they have race compound.   I've ridden with both, not much difference at slow speeds, big difference when they warm up.   And I go through street tires at the rate of 3000 or so for a rear, 5000 for a front, race compound maybe 1500 to 2000 rear, 3500 to 4000 front.   I've had the street compound at Willow, the only thing slowing down that CBR was ME.  It wasn't the shock.  It wasn't the tires.  It wasn't the bike, it was ME!!!.   I didn't need no skinkin' race tires. 

And be manly.   Bust your own tires on and off.  I've got about 5 tire irons, I don't HARDLY EVER scratch my rims anymore, and it's a piece of cake after 30 years of practice.    Line up that line with the valve stem, and, personal opinion here, balance is close enough.  I don't run 160 mph any more, and nothing shakes at 120, so it's all good. 

And the goo on the tires, I've got a road near my house, some 100 mph sweepers, nothing to tight, I just go in at about 100, start leaning, I don't throw it in, I just lean a little more and more, the speeds will keep it from suddenly losing the front, and you can feel that stuff come off the tires.   Seriously, you feel it wiggle a bit, and the wiggle gradually goes away, more lean, more lean, and pretty soon, all done. 

Probably going to be some different opinions on this one, but that's what I've been doing forever. 

can you point me to a thread/literature/resource where i could read up on how to mount my own tires?
the tires seem fine so far after 2 days riding. today in heavy heavy rain. the bike is too fun i couldnt get off even though it was pouring.  (more fun than dry almost!) [thumbsup]

new rubber to arrive monday, ill keep these treads in the garage for spares

p.s. 100mph sweepers !  mm not that confident yet but excited for the season

You can always get on of these

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=34542 (http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=34542)

Make sure you modify it a bit so you don't bang up your rims  ;D

Harbor Freight Tire Changer Modifications (http://www.advrider.com/Wisdom/TireChangerMods1.0.pdf)

Adam

... And here's how to use the Harbor Freight changer w/ a Motorcycle Tire

Mounting a Motorcycle Tire (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t_34kAlZALg#lq2-hq-vhq)

wow awesome video for someone with no experience with tires like myself. thank you guys so much im going to order that kit
and try it myself. ill get the machine out of it for the cost of labor the first time  [thumbsup]

Make sure you mod it a little bit per that pdf if you like keeping your wheels scratch free  [thumbsup]

Adam

The video doesn't seem to want to work for me.  I'll see if I can explain the manual/hand way to do it.  I like to have at least 3 tire irons at hand, although I've seen enduro guys do it on the side of the trail with 2.   I also like to use the 15 or 18 inch ones, but be careful, I've seen a guy break a Kawasaki wheel with one.   

The hard part is breaking the bead from the wheel.  I used to use a Triumph Bonneville long style kickstand to break them, but I sold that bike.  Now I either stomp the bead off the rim, a lot of times that doesn't work, or a big vise that we have a work, or the Yamaha dealer that I bought my dirt bike from does them for nothing.   I've also seen a guy jimmyrig a couple of 2x4s together and leverage the bead off using his truck bumper, it really worked pretty well. 

Once the bead is broke, I use hand cleaner, the non abrasive kind to lube the tire, since it evaporates after a while.   Lay the wheel disc side down on a piece of carpet or cardboard, and I always remove the sprocket to reduce the amount of blood shed.  Using my knees, I push the nearside of the bead down into the valley in the middle of the rim, and try to push it down, all the way around.  Then I put 2 tire irons (hook side) under the bead opposite me.  Making sure the nearside is still in the valley, and most of the rest of the tire, I lever the bead over, with the tire irons maybe 3-4 inches apart.   Pull one out, and stick it in the gap between the bead and the rim, right next to where the bead is going over the edge, and pry another part over, remember, take small bites with the tire iron.  Repeat a couple of times and you should be good to go.

Now I stand the tire up, so the rim drops down over the bead still on it, so there is a gap at the top.   Using the smooth side of the tire iron, put 2 irons under the edge of the rim, removing the tire from the same side you pulled the first side off of, and lever them over, but watch the ends/sharp edge of the irons, they will gouge your wheel if you aren't careful.  Pull one out, take another small bite and you should be able to yank the tire of the wheel.

It really helps if you lay the tire out in the sun for a while, it softens them up.  I've seen a guy at the races when it was cold set if on top of his hot truck engine to soften it up.  Make sure that you the direction of rotation correct in relation to the wheel.   Lube it up.  Nearly every time, I can stomp the first side back on.  Make sure you know where the painted line is on the tire, that goes where the valve stem is.  Same thing, using your knees, get the first side into the valley in the middle of the rim and work your way around with your knees.  I use the smooth side the lever the last 8 or 10 iinches over the rim, careful, don't scratch things up.   Take small bites and make sure the side near you stays in the valley of the rim.  That part is crucial.    Line up the line with the valve stem, air it up, if you use hand cleaner, it makes them pop on the bead pretty easily. 

The last time I did the 900RR, it was 25 minutes, from rolling the bike into the garage, to back on the ground, ready to ride. 

Jon - I'm thinking I might have to invest in one of those Harbour Freight tire changers  ;D

can anyone tell me if the "motorcycle adapter" is useful or necessary?

i ordered the portable tire changer, and some tire irons (24inch, they didnt have any other sizes)

And i was going to order the moto adapter, but i dont see the guy using it in the video. also from the pic i cant even tell what the thing does!

heres the product http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=42927 (http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=42927) i have no idea how it helps

+1 on the HF tire changer... I havent used one with the motorcycle adapter. Takes me about 2 minutes per tire for old one off, new one on...

Greg you can just give me your rims and I'll do it at work.  No big deal really. [thumbsup]

thanks! ill pass on the moto adapter then


the machine is on backorder tho :( boo!

the moto adapter is what clamps to the rim. I use the same setup and it works well once you get the hang of it. Nice thing about the adapter is you clamp the wheel in, start removing the bead ( after breaking it) and insert the long bar. You then lever the bar around a rod you insert into the middle, spinning the tire bead off in one motion, without even touching the rim.

I've never seen the coats changer in action, but to me the holy grail would be the No-Mar changer.

i looked up the no-mar
http://www.nomartirechanger.com/product/show/1 (http://www.nomartirechanger.com/product/show/1)

i must have it!!

OK once I am done turn the flame up....Mate I just wanted to point out a few things, if you are that nervous about the bike, tyres and road conditions, get out to a racepark and take a road course. You will learn what those "race" tyres and you are capable of doing.
Now, to say that the meat put on your Monster's wheels are race tyres is a bit misleading. A slick is a true race tyre. You have DOT tyres that have a compound that lends itself to be real sticky when at temp (and at the proper operating pressures). Those same DOT tyres are used by racers in WERA, AMA, CCS and are just as safe to be used on roadways shared with truck and cars. Are they race tyres, well on a race track they are, on the street they aren't. The amount of grip will change from cold to warm to smoking hot. The amount of grip will be determined by the pressure in the tyre at any given point (this is a point you need to be clear on...PROPER AIR PRESSURE LEVELS based upin load,,,do the research).
I suppose the point I am trying to make is before you go shucking the Tyres off for something else, get to a track and learn more about riding what you have. I am not trying to be insultive but it is what it is. Cofidence is what you are lacking not improper tyres....Get out and ride!

Cheers

Wow.  Who pissed in your cornflakes?

It's obvious that you lack social skills.

thank you for pointing this out to me, i will do my research on this right away.

As for lacking confidence, i agree completely. I wish i could haul off to a track school right away but unfortunately i have a busy work schedule right now, so for the time im trying to put as many miles in as possible,  riding to work and takign long twisty rides on sundays [moto] gaining confidence as i go (but not too much). the dragons are holding up fine. im waiting to put the diablos on until i have the equipment gathered to do it myself. (cant stand to pay a shop)

i look forward to attending a track/riding school in the future  [thumbsup]

You and me both. For right now, get a good warm and sunny day, ride relaxed for a few minutes, to get a little heat in the tires, before cranking it up to 11. Then, progressively feel out the front a bit at a time, to establish how silly your previous worries were. I used to use a stretch of the Natchez Trace for this - just a few miles of 45mph marked road that had big sweeping curves where you could easily memorize the order, and the pavement was in perfect condition. Its also how I seat-of-the-pants evaluated modifications to anything I had made.

I always buy used Super Corsa's from wanabee racers ,they are good for about 4000 km roaduse
Best things are the grip ,even in the rain ,and i tried this  [evil] and the price (i pay about 50€ for a back tyre)

Why would I do that?

You're right.  ;D

agree, i believe that sochuck is accurate in his post as a whole i dont take offense one bit. honesty is virtue.  [thumbsup]