Ducati Monster Forum

I picked up that ST3 in Houston last weekend to replace my FJR that was totaled. Only ridden it a few times but I just can't see it as a good two-up tourer. Anybody using one of these for long trips and two-up riding?

No mistake Jim. You got a good Ducati. It's light and that might be what you're thinking is not going to work. With two on it the bike performs very well. Now, if you want to strickly do long range cruising you can put highway pegs and a sissy bar on it but not sure I'd recommend that. The handle bars can be raised and lowered to that level that suits you. If you want to cruise raise the bars up. If you want sport riding put them down. The suspension has variable settings too. You will need to get the bike put into two different configurations. One for you and your regular weight and gear. The other setting for touring. Once you know those settings you can tune the suspension to whichever riding style you wish. You might want to put another seat on it if you plan on long rides. A gel seat is a good choice. Look for a PM from me.

What other issues do you have with it?

RED

is a good bike but isnt FJR, more sporty....

yamaha FJR - Honda ST1300  -   BMW-K1200GT   -  Kawasaki GTR1400 


Ducati ST3 -- honda VFR800 - Triumph Sprint - BMW F800ST

Damn! You already have it for sale in the "other bikes" classifieds??? Jeez, give it a chance to grow on you. I am sorry about the FJR and all but this is a good scooter too... it's just not a FJR. If you really liked the FJR why didn't you go out and buy another one? Just asking?? That is a good price for a bike with 19 miles on it. Heck, if my wife would ever ride with me again I would buy it... but she won't. :P

 :-\ 
you should give it some time.  didn't you say last night this was your play bike?

That was my initial list when I decided on the FJR - the 3 to the right of FJR are heavier,less nimble and the FJR usually comes out on top of those in comparisons - more SPORT than touring
the second group is more sport and less TOUR
If I was only riding by myself it would be fine - good carrying capacity for one for trips and fun but not so much for 2-up

Main reason was the price - couldn't pass it up - didn't want to take on a payment with a new FJR and the used ones for the $$ I'm hoping to get from the insurance weren't in nearly as nice as shape as mine. 
Figure if I can sell it for what I paid for it I can start looking again.  I really need to have something first that 2 can ride comfortably and then look at the play bike.
After talking to my insurance company I think I am going to be screwed and not have anything left over - my mistake that I jumped on this right away that's all.

Replace the seat and give it one long ride before you get rid of it.  I nearly hated my Ducati during the first month of ownership.  Check us out now  :-*.

should have bought the S2 in Houston and this would all be water under the bridge.
I still believe you should change the seat like suggested and give it a whirl, you will be surprised.

Frisco - can you be a little more specific on what disturbs you about the bike.  My guess is that you don't have the 14-tooth front sprocket installed yet and you haven't had the SAG properly adjusted yet.  The lower sprocket will improve low-rpm handling and provide additional oomph when riding two-up (of course, the top end will drop to about 130-140); having the SAG set will improve low-speed handling a bunch.

Your posts on this and the Ducati.ms sites seem totally focused on the seat, but it doesn't sound like you have many miles on this one (BTW, I agree with you - I didn't like the stock seat either, but I had some miles on it before buying the DP Touring seat...MUCH nicer, and only $306 delivered to my door).

So....is it performance?  Handling?  Ride softness?  Pillion comfort?  Color?  Seating position?  Sound?  Mileage?

If you are thinking of selling, what color is it and what do you want for it?

Best wishes,
George

 [thumbsup] George

I too suggested he go by AMS to have the suspension set.  I think he just like riding purple bikes  :-*

I will admit that the FJR was the best all around bike I have ever owned in almost 40 years of riding - went the route of CBR600 to a Virago 1100 to a Valk to Roadstar & Roadstar Warrior to the FJR.  Performance is less than the FJR (both quickness & top end - just from reading stats because still in break-in pd. but I can tell it won't out run one) - Handling is great - lighter and more flickable - Pillion is pretty flimsy and the seating position has me more cramped and passenger tighter area as well - Color is red (not purple as muskrat seems to think I favor - he never saw my schoolbus yellow Valk) Sound should be good (a plus) wth an exhaust - mileage and tank size (cruising distance) is less - basically it feels unstable on the road - more of a rough ride - not a solid feel to it.  I'm looking for something that I can do 500-600 mile days on without feeling beat-up - I don't mind feeling tired after that distance - the few times I did that on the FJR I was tired but it was more mentaltired from running 80-115 mph in the twisties and back roads.  I just don't see that happening on this bike. Rode it tonight and got blown from one lane into another - never had that happen before - at 70 mph it wasn't fun.
I paid $8500 out the door - not looking to make anything but would like to get my money back or most of it anyway.

IMHO, I think you have the wrong bike.  I'm guessing you're in your mid-50's (I'm 62) and you want a bike to ride 600 miles per day in the twisties?  And not feel tired?  Not on the ST3, my brother...not at our age.

I suggest you spend NO money for modifications on this bike - just unload it and find one you really like.  Sounds like the FJR was your true love - which is fine...it was the main contender for me - so get what you love.  After all, it's about the RIDE, not the bike.

Best wishes,
George

I agree with George In dallas. The only thing I would say to the stability issue is maybe a stiffer spring in the back would help. I did that even for just myself. It helped tremendously. Oh, and a sargent seat.

I have an ST4s and I Love it because it does it all for ME. I can do 1200 miles in 2 days and the following week do a track day on it and turn some decent lap times. I think the ST bikes are WAY more sport than Touring.

I'm actually working on putting clip-ons to lower the bars and some 888 rearsets to make a little more clearance. But that is for ME.
A friend of mine is madly in love with his FJR.

Sounds like you made up your mind and that's cool. Go with it. 'Life is too short' and 'it's only money' seem to fit nicely here.
Steve

You are correct - I expect to be tired after a long day in the twisties but more of a mental tiredness than physically beat-up.  Also want something that's equally adept at doing a long slab stretch if necessary - being in Dallas and trying to get out west there aren't many scenic options - heading north/northeast/east I can meander on some back roads and don't mind if it takes a bit longer to get where I want to go.  However there are times when the interstate is the only option (like I had to outrun a hurricane from Atlanta a few years ago).  I think this would make a great play bike - I've ridden the 999 and an 800S but at my age the more agressive seating position detracts from the fun - it is all about the ride!
I'm waiting to hear what the insurance company offers right now - if there is some extra $$ in there and I can get a more friendly 2-up'er I'll see how it goes.  This seems like it would be great for a one person weekend in northwest Arkansas but not so much fun for a week up to the northeast or out west.

Sounds like your style is more sport oriented than towards the touring side (didn't sound like you do much 2-up riding) though I have no idea how anyone could do 2 600 mile days on one of these. For my 'sport side' the bars and seating position are fine - I just can't deal with the crouched-over-knees-bent-feet-back position of the sport bikes these days. As mentioned above I think this would be great for one person for weekends but I wouldn't want to ride it to LA or Chicago. I'm an advocate for having multiple bikes but unfortunately my wallet doesn't allow me to have one for each day of the week. If the insurance settlement works out I'll be looking to see if I can pick up a more touring/comtuer style scoot and keep this as a play bike - if not then I'll see what I can do to get a better all-around ride.

Keep it as your fun bike and pick up a used FJR (preferably purple so Dax can still poke fun at it).  I wish I was in the market for a Sport-tourer (emphasis on sport) cause I'd nab that thing from you.

he's old ya know.  :o

sell it to me Jim for $5k and I'll get it tonight.

$5k and your monster?  Let me think about that...... nah    Even trade for the old outdated roadie?  hmmmmmmm ?????

Stepped back and let this thread mature a little and thought I'd have to agree with everyone just the same. It does seem that you are mainly in the market for a bike like the ZX14 Concours, or even a Wing. If you're looking for it all get the wing. That baby will do 130 all day long and the only reason you'd have to stop is to fill it up again. I can see that it's all about what you're used to riding. My experience all my street riding days have been on sport bikes/cafe setup type bikes of European descent. I like the light feel in traffic of my Duc ST4s. Since I put the 14 tooth sprocket on it hauls ass in lower rpms now so I can move effortlessly through downtown then when I want to rip it out on the road it moves quite quickly up to the ton. My seat is stock and I have no trouble putting 300 miles on it a day but then I do get off periodically too. Two up is not this bikes style. One person touring is it's forte. I plan on going up to DiTR in August on mine and hope to find out if that is the case. I plan on loading it down with the bags too and seeing what it's going to do. The main changes I've made are the sprockets, front and rear and tires. Getting a softer compound tire is key I think. The seat will be changed out too before the trip. I find that the ST4s is the all around perfect bike for me though. Power out the wazzoo, handles the curves and like Steve said you can put it on the track too.  Sorry to see you get rid of such a fine piece though. It's the last of the breed and I keep hearing so many people say that they wish Ducati had never stopped making these bikes. There is a great love for them all over the country it seems. Get what you're used to that is for sure. That way you will be confident in your ride. Changing brands is never easy. My first ride on the Duc scared me it was so powerful and quick. I was blinded by the sight of seeing 120 so fast. As far as performance I'd love to see this bike matched against the FJR to see the differences. Hope to ride with you soon ....on whatever you decide to get. Cheers!  [beer]

Thanks Red - I'm trying to like this thing - I was curious about the performance comparison myself - the FJR seemed faster so I checked out sportrider.com - they ride pretty much everything and post results.  Unfortunately they didn't take an ST3 out - they did have numbers for an '05 ST4s (which I think is more powerful than the ST3) - 1/4 mile was 11.25 sec @ 121 - an '05 FJR 10.78 sec @ 127.7 - as a matter of fact the only Ducati's that posted better numbers than the Feejer were the 999, 999R and a '99 916 - everything else was slower (including the Monsters muskrat  :P )

Saw some pics with the top case - looked more like an adventure tourer - I've come to the conclusion this is not a 2-up tripper - would be nice to have a Wing but don't think that's in the price range at this point - once I get an offer from the insurance company (they already sent me a check for my helmet) I'll see what my options are - may keep it for my play bike but most likely will be looking to sell or trade soon.

I don't get it.  you want a touring bike and you post 1/4 mile results?  ???
Just about everything is faster than a monster, that's not why we ride them, versatility, cornering, weight and torque.  In my opinion you don't like twins anymore which is ok.  Me, the only thing other than a twin would be a Goldwing and that wont be until I'm your age.  :P 

Dax - red was asking about a performance comparison so I posted what I had found. I was hoping this would handle 2-up better but it doesn't - great bike for one person - the Wing does do it all but it has it's drawbacks as well - not a traditional bike look - 5 speed that has you looking for a sixth gear like the FJR and can be a bit warm, changing tires can get expensive too.  Concours is butt ugly (especially with the bags off) Honda ST is way too top heavy off the stand plus hot here in Texas, BMW's are way overpriced and expensive to maintain if you put some miles on them (and can be hard to find someone to work on them when traveling) - this was the closest thing to the FJR that I could find and the price was right - unfortunately it doesn't do 2-up real well nor superslab runs - it's a great one person bike and hopefully when the insurance settles I'll be able to find a deal on something that I can use for trips for 2 and this then can be the play bike. In the interim if someone wants to give me what I paid for it I'll sell and look at the options afterwards. It's not the bike but what I need a bike to do for right now and this just isn't it. Nothing to do with the type of motor - just the overall package.

Here is the 1/4 mile time chart Frisco is refering to:

http://www.sportrider.com/performance_numbers/146_motorcycle_performance_numbers/ducati.html (http://www.sportrider.com/performance_numbers/146_motorcycle_performance_numbers/ducati.html)

Surprising to me is the 2009 Monster 1100 time, 11.46 s @ 114 mph.  ???

Probably still in the break-in period.   [moto] [moto]

I'd imagine the high times on the monster could be somewhat attributed to its tendency to wheelie.  Getting off the line cleanly with real solid drive is not quite as easy as some of the other bikes where your weight is more naturally over the front end.

Well, sure, if you want to apply physics and math to the deal.   ;D

I don't think that's the case - check out the times on the sport bikes which have a tendency to lift the front wheel off the ground as well - these are ridden by guys who know how to ride and control the front end.

um, soooooo much lighter than the Jap bikes and fairings to boot.  1/4 mile is not an accurate measure of a bike's ability unless you add 6 inches to a busa and then tear off down the strip.  still wondering what purpose this shit serves anyway?  it's like comparing a corvette to a malibu in the 1/4 mile.

you keep saying this is NOT a good two-up bike but i don't remember you describing WHY you think it is not.
I ask because while i no longer (for the moment) tour with my wife, we did several trips together. i think the longest was to San Antonio and another the long way down to fredericksburg.
The latter had all sorts of weather. i think you mentioned the Bike being too stiff. That seems odd unless you were bottomed out. We did these trips before i got a stiffer spring put in the rear and to me, the bike seemed slightly wallowy and softly sprung (compared to the performance when the bike is set up for the track). i can only imagine it being better now.

As far as 1/4 mile times, i'll bet the ST4s they tested didn't have proper gearing.

I reduced mine and still don't use sixth. rarely get out of 4th actually. I do think i could go faster on the top end if i did some adjusting.

I would suggest you deffinately try the 14 tooth front sprocket. heck i'll let you borrow mine to try and put it on for you for free!
the sargent seat is a huge improvement for amanda. she said it stopped her fron sliding forward so much.

Steve

steve

 [coffee]  Dude, the Malibu has four more cupholders, duh!  Hugely influential in my buying decisions...

 ;D  [evil]

(ne... ee..  ed    mo... rr...    coffee...)

Sdlrodeo-

Are any special tools required to do the front sprocket swap on a dual sided swingarm monster?  I know an eccentric chain tool is required on the SSS, but I cannot find any information on the swap for DSS.

Thanks.

they make after-market cup holders for that vette of yours too, you know, the kind that hangs on the window seal.  [laugh]

I said it wasn't a good two up compared to what I had been used to riding - this is much more cramped - passener sits up higher and with a tour trunk added for carrying capabilities looks like a fugly adventure tourer and unless you unbolt everything just taking the bags off looks like some kind of tubular experiment going on back there. much roughr ride.
I didn't buy it to change it all out - the tests are done on stock bikes - you can't have an accurate comparison when you start changing gears etc - that would serve no purpose - with two up it lacks power (again compared to what I had before) and roll-on acceleration is much slower - if I want to pass someone I don't want to have to drop down 2 or 3 gears to do it.
I think this would make a fine one person machine but for me right now for what I need this ain't cutting it.  I'm just hoping I can get a somewhat decent offer on a trade - I'm prepared to lose money but hopefully no more than a grand or two.

But can I get a red Dale, Jr. #88 cup holder for my Vette?  That'd have to be good for at least another 5hp right there  [cheeky]

Back on topic (damn it, how weird is that  [laugh]); if I were planning on riding two-up, I'd take my intended victim passenger and get their input.  Not that their opinion would in any way influence my decision, of course  [evil]

Maybe you could get something approaching fair trade-in value on the Duc if you decided to go through a dealer on your next bike, Frisco?  Spring dealer specials should be at least better than usual this time of year.  Not sure what the KBB value is but it does sound like you got a hell of a deal  [thumbsup]

Or maybe list the Duc on other bike forums in their "other bikes for sale section"; could possibly even find someone who wants to trade even up.

Good luck with whatever you decide; awesome riding weather NOW  [beer]

Cher - unfortunately she had to work that day - we did go around and sit on a bunch of different bikes prior - she said it wasn't bad but felt tight - it's not her doing the complaining - she just likes to ride.  It's my decision because I can't see a 400-500 mile straight shot on it with her on the back - not sure i could do it with just me actually.  I thought it would work and it was the best deal I could find at the time - I really wish I would have waited but I probably would have made the same choice.  I wasn't going to find a used FJR for what I get from the insurance company that was in as nice as shape as mine - I would have wanted at least one year newer model (heat issue) and there just aren't that many out there.  it's no big deal I just wish I could find someone who would buy it - I have posted on other Ducati forums but no interest.

Easy stuff, man.  You don't need special tools. He'll you don't even need a rear stand. You might need to pop off the clutch slave, but if you just slack the chain you can probably jimmy it out. Probably a 15 min job.   [thumbsup]

Don't know for sure, but I think it is just the allen key to take off the sprocket guard, the axle nut socket and adjuster bolts (14 or 12mm) and an 8mm socket for the keeper bolts on the front sprocket itself. That is how mine is set up anyway.

Steve

As far as luggage goes, I've grown used to the looks but at first, i'll agree, it looked a bit odd. I too hate the look of the bag off/frames on set up. I currently have just my top case rack without the side bag hardware fitted. I like the lines a lot better that way. But it's funny because the FJR looks about the same to me with it's luggage rack/top box set up the side bags are a different story. I don't know what the FJR looks like without them.

It sounds like you really don't like the bike for many reasons which is perfectly fine. I was just offering the sprocket suggestion to remedy the power/roll-on issue. I forgot we were talking about an ST3 vs my ST4s. As I've never ridden an ST3, I can't speak for the power difference. I do know that I usually don't downshift to pass and if I do, maybe one gear.  Even on my ST4s, it is rather wheezy at low speeds without a sprocket change however, top end can be spooky fast.

I wish you luck in your adventure of getting a new bike and I'm really sorry to hear this happened in the first place.

Steve

to me all top trunks look fugly, but it's not my bike or my choice.  should I buy one such as these I'm hoping GIVI options will look better.  just saying.

I agree totally. But right now I can only afford one bike and If I didn't need it for commuting and locking my gear in, I wouldn't have it. It sure does come in handy on long trips rather than strapping gear with plastic bags all around. Plus without the trunk, the rack isn't toooooooo intrusive. Hope Lisa doesn't mind but I posted her pic:

(http://i195.photobucket.com/albums/z234/n2f/TaovayaBridgeMar09-1.jpg)

I'm sort of a fan of the Hypermotard soft luggage in a weird off the wall way, but it doesn't lock.
Steve

the rack doesn't look bad at all, it's the trunk that I think looks funny.   [thumbsup]

That doesn't look bad without the side bag hangers - I think the power difference between the 4 & the 3 is fairly significant - 121 HP vs 107 HP. I'm like you I need the top case more than the side bags to commute.  FJR looked similar without the top case , a big black flat mount for the GIVI instead of the stock painted rack for attaching soft luggage.  Side bags came off like the ST's turn the key and pop them off but no mount behind them - put the little plugs in the two holes on top and you would never know it was supposed to have hard bags.
I took it out today by myself - much better - can lean further over than the FJR - Scott at AMS said I should run it between 4-7,000 rpms for the best response from the motor - tried it and it did have better roll-on response but it was liking riding a sportbike keeping the revs up.
Got a decent offer of $7K for a trade-in so that equates to about $7500 with the tax savings - only would lose $1K from what I paid for it.  Before anyone says anything that the offer is relative to the asking price of the new unit I know what the cost is on most bikes having sold them before and I can pretty much pick up anything for about $200 over cost so the offer is based on a selling price of $200 over cost including any special offers the mfg. has going. Now I am just waiting for the final insuranc settlemnt to decide if I trade and get something new or get another bike to handle the 2-up and keep this a the play bike, take the bags off, exhaust, maybe change the sprocket at that point.
I've never said this is a bad bike or anything but as a two-upper it doesn't cut it for what I want out of one - funny but when I sat on the new FJR at a dealer today it felt WAY heavier but I think that extra weight is what helps with the more comfortable ride - definitely more upright seating - thats one thing I did like about the ST vs a 999 or SS that i had ridden prior - way too agressive postioning for these old bones.
Just have to wait and see now

a Duc is a Duc is a Duc is a Duc.  you either lov'em or you don't.  you'll be surprised when you can open the bike up and tear into it. 

 ;D Looks like this was not such a mistake after all  [moto] - hope you ran the heck out of it while you had it  [thumbsup]

I have old bones too... several of them crushed and fused together. :P But I have several sportbikes, including a 999, 916 and 996. Two words: Heli bars.

http://www.helibars.com/proddetail.php?prod=HB2405 (http://www.helibars.com/proddetail.php?prod=HB2405)

I couldn't ride for very long without them. Three + day rides are no problem (to a degree) with the bar swap. Besides great tires this is the best money I have ever spent on a bike. After tires and Heli bars comes a good saddle. Check it out. [thumbsup]

so....why hasn't he done this yet?
I was told by AMS (Stuart and Nash) when I bought my new bike to break it in how I wanted to ride it, and I did.  It was awesome. 

who knows why but it may have something to do with Scott saying keep it under 7K

No no no - the manual said under 6 for the first 500 miles then 7500 until 1,000 - Scott said not to worr just don't run constant rpms and don't flog it to 9500 evry time - Scott said it likes to be ridden between 4-7,000 - being that it is a Duc and it's sat for 2 years (only 19 miles) I didn't want to take any chances.  Ran it out a few times yesterday and no problems.

then spank her

Sell that scooter or keep it. Which is it? Fish or cut bait. Why is this thread four pages long? The man who owns the bike and started this thread knows the answer. If the bike is not for you and doesn't meet your needs, then poof... it's gone. It's all cool. No one said just because it's a Ducati it's the world's best bike for you. Just go and buy what turns your prop. Just like we all do. And yes, sometimes we make mistakes and buy bikes that give us buyer's remorse. Hell, I have had marriages like that... damn sure cost me more than your Ducati. [laugh] Get over it and move on. If you don't want it, sell it. If you think you want to keep it then start a new thread about that. Let's move on people... nothing to look at here. Let's let the man make his own decision. It's just a motorcycle. [moto]

he can still get a ribbin  ;D

I think the cupholder discussion took up about a page  ;D

almost but not here so we are back onto you and your ribbin  :-*

Oh dear, I see how you are  [laugh]  [bang]

Honestly dude.....a cup holder on a motorcycle......  [roll] [roll] [laugh]

it's a beer holder for the rallies.  remember, the cruiser is a slow and fat pig that allows time to enjoy sips of your favorite beverage. [drink]

Drinking and riding.  Assless chapps.  Brain buckets and goggles.

Yep. Plenty of brilliant ideas you have there  [cheeky]

two beers is my limit for two wheels no matter when/where.  cup holder is for those LONG, 140 miles plus, rides when we don't stop.  did you forget I have a barca lounger as a seat or what?   >:(

I prefer to keep my barca & my lounger in the house  :D

 :P

[laugh] [bacon]

Jim, did you bondo the fairing?

Slag might be able to help