So I'm cruisin the twisties of California today, specificaliy, Topanga Canyon from the 101 to PCH and I'm in a long sharp right curve, and I drag the front of my foot on the pavement! That's a first, kinda freaked me out and excited me all at the same time. I guess I'm getting better at leaning the bike to it's full potential, but taught me a lesson at the same time. Get the ball of my foot on that peg and not the arch...Bad thing is I was wearing tennis shoes. Could have been bad!!! What a beautiful day to ride in southern California today though!!! :o
My size 13 foot is the first thing that touches, too.
Quote from: monstermania on April 05, 2009, 04:49:20 PM
but taught me a lesson at the same time. Get the ball of my foot on that peg and not the arch...Bad thing is I was wearing tennis shoes.
Actually the *real* lesson should be to wear the proper footwear.
Go buy yourself some boots.
Quote from: MrIncredible on April 05, 2009, 04:55:55 PM
Actually the *real* lesson should be to wear the proper footwear.
Go buy yourself some boots.
Amen brother. Just recovering from a broken foot. Protect those feet, they are expensive to fix.
I heard that. That lesson learned too!
Did the toe thing on US550 headed towards ouray in southwest colorado... problem with that road si that there is no guard rail and a huge ass cliff to fall off of. :-\
Quote from: MrIncredible on April 05, 2009, 04:55:55 PM
Actually the *real* lesson should be to wear the proper footwear.
Go buy yourself some boots.
+1 & don't forget to get up on the balls of your feet when you hit the twisties....... I know every time I ride Hyw 33 I throw sparks off my right foot in the first big right hander as prior to that I have an hour of slabbing on the HWY. Only takes one turn to remind me [laugh]
I saw a guy today in full gear but tennis shoes today. Interesting site to see.
I was having trouble with not being able to keep my foot off the ground at Mid-OH last year when I was on my monster. I had knee down but foot would go too on right side. I got new rear sets and stiffened the suspension up more. I think that should help at the track but I don't know if I'll have the monster there a hole lot more.
I actually scraped my foot (the flesh) on the ground by the end of the day cause I had gone so far through my plastic toe slider and boot. I also got ceramic toe sliders to replace and patched the boot since then.
(http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r197/vw151/mid%20ohio%20tucker%20rocky/Picture012.jpg)
Quote from: vw151 on April 05, 2009, 07:59:59 PM
I was having trouble with not being able to keep my foot off the ground at Mid-OH last year when I was on my monster. I had knee down but foot would go too on right side. I got new rear sets and stiffened the suspension up more. I think that should help at the track but I don't know if I'll have the monster there a hole lot more.
I actually scraped my foot (the flesh) on the ground by the end of the day cause I had gone so far through my plastic toe slider and boot. I also got ceramic toe sliders to replace and patched the boot since then.
(http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r197/vw151/mid%20ohio%20tucker%20rocky/Picture012.jpg)
Holey scaped up boot! (get it...? hole-y) hahaha... umm, nevermind... ;)
+1 to the beautiful weather man... Did 120+ miles w/TazioS today... pregnant dogin', pregnant dogin', pregnant dogin'!!! [moto] Clear skies, great asphalt, and a couple of dudes on Monsters.
BIG +1 to the 'get some gear' comments...
To vw151:
(http://icanhascheezburger.files.wordpress.com/2007/04/wrong-mike.jpg)
Yah I know. I did figure out that if I hung off the bike more I'd hit knee only and not foot until the bike started to lean even more. I tried my foot in many different positions but it was tought to keep the right foot off the ground. I don't have that problem at all on my GSXR. I'd imagine it's cause the pegs are higher.
+1 on the proper footwear and riding on the balls of your feet is a must. higher rearsets will help as will raising the rear but you're then going to find yourself dragging hardparts. However if you were riding on your arches and not hanging off you're got a lot of lean angle to work w/ before you run out of clearance.
I was on the balls of my feet and hanging off. Hanging off would solve the problem where as knee would hit first but then as you started to feel your knee come in towards the bike my foot and rear set and side stand would drag. I have since added more stiffness to the rear and I think that would solve the problem too. ultimately I'm just a big dude on a relatively small bike and the super bikes are better suited for that sort of riding. The only thing you can really do is exaggerate getting off the bike even more. The further you are off the bike the less lean angle it needs to go around the turn, so less dragging parts and more traction but eventually the bike has nothing left to do but lean more.
you can see the issue in these pics. yes I suppose I could have been further off the bike.
(http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r197/vw151/monster%20track%20day/tattoo-2-053.jpg)
(http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r197/vw151/monster%20track%20day/tattoo-2-158.jpg)
as compared to here, where I'm on my GSX-R750 and not dragging foot.
(http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r197/vw151/Barber/At%20Barber/knee-draggin.jpg)
I haven't been to the track on the monster since getting new rear sets or stiffening the rear but I think it would help but ultimately I think it just illustrates how much more the ergos of the monster are street oriented compared to the superbikes. I ground the foot peg pretty good on the right side so no matter how I had my foot on the peg I couldn't keep it off the ground.
I've since had my boots patched and added ceramic toe sliders. They don't ground through.
(http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r197/vw151/IMG_0064.jpg)
i'm far from an expert, but referencing Lee Parks' book. you're not leaning INTO the turn and lookin through. your upper body is upright. leaning into the turn would put your inner foot more under you and not hangin out.
After riding for years in standard boots (Doc's, etc...) I found my boot dragging a lot on my 696. Last Sunday I got my first pair of Alpinestars. SMX-5. With Sliders. I may need new sliders soon - or rear sets. :D
Man, all you guys dragging your boots or your pegs need to work on (a) body position, (b) suspension, (c) lines and quick-turn in. You should NOT be dragging a boot or a peg. Both of those are bad signs. Don't treat them like they're no big deal.
i only drug my boot one time. in the riders course for a sharp turn i got lazy and didn't shift back in position (balls of feet on pegs) for the corner.
i make it a point to keep my toes in. only time i don't is tooling around a small village so i can brake/shift quicker. but in corners i shift back again.
Quote from: Spidey on April 06, 2009, 02:17:33 PM
Man, all you guys dragging your boots or your pegs need to work on (a) body position, (b) suspension, (c) lines and quick-turn in. You should NOT be dragging a boot or a peg. Both of those are bad signs. Don't treat them like they're no big deal.
I thought it was my foot position coming off the peg and it isn't as my boot is pushed up on the peg and I am on balls of my feet on the pegs.
These turns that I scrape on are the same places all the time. One is a 180 degree 15 MPH turn to go from a ramp onto an expressway. The other is a 30 MPH Right-Left-Right freeway offramp. I take both of them much faster than the posted speed limit.
These are places I never hit before on any other bike. It all started with the 696.
if you are dragging your foot there is plenty of body language left you are avoiding. And you are much safer using body language than you are dragging anything. If you fail to lean off your machine, you have the ability to run beyond the edge of your tyre and that will surely land you where you'd rather not be. Remember, different bikes need different body language. These Monsters need more because their clearances aren't soo great. They'll tear it up if you do it right.
Also, once you've figured out the language needed to put your knee down without putting your toe down, putting more weight onto the knee will tighten your turn.
Wow, i'm learning a lot about the monster, I never lean off the bike really, I just flip it from side to side and I've never had a problem before but I guess that why it seams I have to work a lot harder to carve then on my old Ninja. It was a piece of cake to get to lean, The 696 is a different story. Thanks for all of the input.
I'm still working on getting off the bike. I wasn't as good at it last year as I am this year. I still maintain that the monster is much more apt to drag a peg or foot than a superbike.
Quote from: monstermania on April 06, 2009, 07:35:26 PM
Wow, i'm learning a lot about the monster, I never lean off the bike really, I just flip it from side to side and I've never had a problem before but I guess that why it seams I have to work a lot harder to carve then on my old Ninja. It was a piece of cake to get to lean, The 696 is a different story. Thanks for all of the input.
I'm not saying that you need to use body language for every ride. You may be experiencing suspension not set up for you, and geometry that isn't optimized for your needs. Also, tyre shape has a TON to do with turn in on a bike. For instance, my VERY hemisherical Sportmax GPs initial turn in is a lot slower than my previous Pilot Powers. However, once at full lean, the Sportmax GPs are infinately adjustable whereas the Powers like to hold a particular angle better than any other. This isn't a bag on the Pilot Powers, in fact I prefer their quicker turn in and stable lean angle. I think it suits the wide barred Monsters very nicely.
Quote from: vw151 on April 07, 2009, 06:10:30 AM
I'm still working on getting off the bike. I wasn't as good at it last year as I am this year. I still maintain that the monster is much more apt to drag a peg or foot than a superbike.
I agree whole heartedly. The Monster is known for its lower rearsets. However, they are closer to the centerline of the bike, so with aftermarket rearsets, the Monster can lean further over without scraping than the much wider I4 SSs.
I'll probably run the monster a few sessions this year just to see how the new rearsets and stiffer spring feel. That and I have a full arrow system now and that makes everything more fun. Ulitimately I don't want to track it too much cause I really would rather avoid wrecking it. Gixxers are much better for wrecking, or well.... cheaper.
It's funny, this hole discussion. I found the monster and an Aprilia Tueno I rode to be much more forgiving about whether or not you were hanging off the bike. They felt stable either way. I'm sure that has to do with the more upright riding position and wider bars.
The superbikes seem to only feel stable if you get out of the seat. Ride them straight up and down and they are a little wobbly. I'm no expert but that was just my observation.
That is what I love about the monster on the street. It lets you get away with more, so you can rail through the low speed turns easier, it's a great compromise between a race bike type of suspension which gives it great handling but more streeetable manners. I'd love to get in the seat of some other naked bikes like the KTM super duke or MV brutale.
Not to mention nakeds are pretty.
Quote from: Raux on April 06, 2009, 11:16:33 AM
i'm far from an expert, but referencing Lee Parks' book. you're not leaning INTO the turn and lookin through. your upper body is upright. leaning into the turn would put your inner foot more under you and not hangin out.
Yes I was still working on getting my shoulders to follow my butt. I'm getting better at it this year. I also think its easier to got the rest of our body over with clip ons. Don't have that wide bar to hang onto on the outside of the bike. We'll see this year.
the only time I really every touch toe down is when i'm just toodling around and not botheirng with body position... but when i'm riding properly... i never touch. don't have a 696, but i would htink that if yo'ure to that point in leaning on it.. you're close to running out of use-able lean angle and could be headed towards a get off...
I'd suggest slowing it down a little and focusing on body position. leaning in more with your upper body rather than having it so in line with the bike will help decrease the lean angle of the bike while you're cornering. this will give you better traction (control) and make your bike feel more stable on the throttle in the turn. it will also force the angle of your foot to change a little but since your lean angle will be decreased you shouldnt be close to dragging toe
Quote from: vw151 on April 07, 2009, 08:58:52 AM
Yes I was still working on getting my shoulders to follow my butt. I'm getting better at it this year.
I always try to kiss the knuckle on my pinky and then keep moving my head forward and down. That reminds me of the proper movement to get my body in the right position.
Quote from: Spidey on April 06, 2009, 02:17:33 PM
Man, all you guys dragging your boots or your pegs need to work on (a) body position, (b) suspension, (c) lines and quick-turn in. You should NOT be dragging a boot or a peg. Both of those are bad signs. Don't treat them like they're no big deal.
So you're saying that no matter how fast you're travelling or how tight the turn is, you should never have the bike leaned over enough to touch down a stock peg on a Monster?
if the suspension is set properly, then no the pegs shouldnt drag... when you start dragging hard parts it can and eventually will upset the suspension and cause a loss of traction. again.. i can't speak for a 696, but i've dragged bodywork on bikes before without the pegs hitting
Quote from: txduc on April 07, 2009, 02:49:46 PM
So you're saying that no matter how fast you're travelling or how tight the turn is, you should never have the bike leaned over enough to touch down a stock peg on a Monster?
Yes, that's what I was saying. [roll]
Basically, if you're dragging foot or peg, you're either (a) doing it wrong or (b) are on a track or
should be on a track. Based on vw151 pics, he was both on a track
and doing it wrong. There's nothing wrong with "doin' it wrong" cuz we all need to learn somehow. Like he said, he's working on it. The point I was making was that dragging foot or peg should not be an everyday occurrence and is not something that should be treated lightly. The only time I can remember dragging a toe is while shifting leaned over. And you definitely should not be wearing all the way through a boot. Eek!
Okay I agree with that. My point was based on track riding. On the street you should not drag pegs or toes unless you have your foot under the shift lever and arch on the peg.
I was working on keeping my feet off the ground all day and I can tell you, the way I was running there was no keeping that peg off the ground, the monster stock rear sets are awfully low. That coupled with my spring still being a little soft and no matter what my foots position it was hitting. I will agree, when I got further off the bike it kept my foot off the ground until my knee was firmly planted and coming back up towards the bike and much like spidey said there was one point where I dragged a peg so hard I felt the rear come unsettled. I decided that was enough lean angle. I agree, if all is correct, set up, and you are hanging off the bike, even on a monster, probably shouldn't tear through a boot. I had 1 particularly bad session where I got a little frazzled and don't think I was paying as much attention to the fundamentals and that is when I did the most damage to the boot. Actually had a blister on my foot from 1 more touch down in the final session. hole in slider, hole in boot, hole in sock and blister on foot. Hense, back to the drawing board for rear sets, rear shock and of course as everyone has been screaming, more emphasis on getting off the bike.
This is what happened to my buddy a few weeks ago at barber when he was hauling ass through a turn and didn't wasn't getting off the bike. It was his first track weekend. He has vowed to get off the bike next time. :)
(http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r197/vw151/Untitled-1-1.jpg)
don't worry, he was fine, but I think he was shaken. He ran out of tire due to not getting off the bike, if you don't get your weight off the bike then the only thing turning you is lean angle and you run out of that pretty quick when you are going fast.
On the superbikes I've never dragged a foot.
Futher yes, don't try dragging things on the street. If you are dragging feet, knees or hard parts of the bike on the street slow down a little.
if i remember right, one of the things of the 696 is the lower foot position as compared to previous monsters. but the 1100 is taller and gives a bit more lean angle. i would think if you crank up the rear spring to increase the ride height a bit and stiffen up the rear suspension, plus hang off you would never be able to touch on the street unless you are really bombing down a curvy road.
Quote from: vw151 on April 07, 2009, 07:01:00 PMIf you are dragging feet, knees or hard parts of the bike on the street slow down a little.
I've seen people dragging knees at pretty low speeds. Is this just bad form for the road? or are they in fact going pretty fast for such tight corners?
you dont have to be going fast to drag knees... i've done it on the street plenty of times. not nearly as much around Dallas as up at Deals Gap, but it can be done without excessive speed. Its not recommended for the street but it can be done. too many variables... road surfaces, debris, cars, horse crap, dogs, etc etc etc... i prefer sticking to the track. infact i've ridden more than twice the miles on the track this year so far that i have on the street. I'm all but done with street riding... too many idiots out there