So today I went to my shop where I got the bike to get something gear related taken care of. I went to talk to the shop manager while I was there to price out my 600 mile service as I am getting close and also to ask about the brake noise that I posted about previously. He quoted me $250 after tax. Does that sound about right to you folks? Is there anything I could/should/shouldn't do myself to bring the cost down? Then I asked about doing the front sprocket at the same time. $100!! Many people on here were saying they were just paying for the part when they had it in and this guy wants to charge me part and labor. I have not seen a how to on changing the sprocket on the 696 so if anyone can I would like to take a look. Thanks!
Now for my rant.... (Yeah that was just warm up)..... so I asked about the brakes. The guy says, very matter-of-factly, yeah, some of them do that..... then advised me I can take the pads off and try sanding them down ::shrug:: I am not very mechanical and this is a BRAND NEW BIKE! I shouldn't have to do anything to make it work properly! It just should, and to me, loudly schreeching brakes means something is not right....
To make matters worse, I had to run out for wife last night and as I am getting on/off the bike (so mad I can't remember which) and I barely hit the rear blinker with my foot and it breaks off!! What cheap crap are they using on these bikes? There is no way due to the position of the exhaust to get a solid hit on the blinker so it is clear it had to be a glancing blow.... waiting on response from dealer to see what they can do for me.... So angry right now....
1.. yes, some of them do that. has a lot to do with the break-in and could even be manufacture. you can either
a. sand them with a hand orbital sander. about 5 seconds with 800 grit is what i do or
b. spend the 40-50$ and get a new set.
either way, it's not that big of a deal to get angry about it. it might even be your fault, depending on how you drive..
the blinkers are designed to shear off, as is your bikini fairing if you have one. can't have you gored to death if you fall under the bike. all bikes have soft-mount blinkers since around mid 1980s
Quote from: brickdogg on April 09, 2009, 05:49:51 PM
So today I went to my shop where I got the bike to get something gear related taken care of. I went to talk to the shop manager while I was there to price out my 600 mile service as I am getting close and also to ask about the brake noise that I posted about previously. He quoted me $250 after tax. Does that sound about right to you folks? Is there anything I could/should/shouldn't do myself to bring the cost down? Then I asked about doing the front sprocket at the same time. $100!! Many people on here were saying they were just paying for the part when they had it in and this guy wants to charge me part and labor. I have not seen a how to on changing the sprocket on the 696 so if anyone can I would like to take a look. Thanks!
Now for my rant.... (Yeah that was just warm up)..... so I asked about the brakes. The guy says, very matter-of-factly, yeah, some of them do that..... then advised me I can take the pads off and try sanding them down ::shrug:: I am not very mechanical and this is a BRAND NEW BIKE! I shouldn't have to do anything to make it work properly! It just should, and to me, loudly schreeching brakes means something is not right....
To make matters worse, I had to run out for wife last night and as I am getting on/off the bike (so mad I can't remember which) and I barely hit the rear blinker with my foot and it breaks off!! What cheap crap are they using on these bikes? There is no way due to the position of the exhaust to get a solid hit on the blinker so it is clear it had to be a glancing blow.... waiting on response from dealer to see what they can do for me.... So angry right now....
Quote
I am not very mechanical and this is a BRAND NEW BIKE!
Bring the bike back and enjoy your car. Motorcycles are not for the mechanically deficient.
Quote from: crankmonster on April 09, 2009, 06:33:10 PM
Bring the bike back and enjoy your car. Motorcycles are not for the mechanically deficient.
Your posting is becoming annoying.
Try a different tune...
or maybe a different forum.
Yea, maybe take a Valium. [coffee]
Square breathing.
LA
$250 after tax is a bit high unless parts and labor for the front sprocket is included. If you do a search in this forum for the 696 600 mile service you'll get a picture for a decent average bill which is ~$170ish. It also depends on your dealer's hourly labor charge and the tax for the region where your dealer is located as well. I got mine done for ~$150 after tax. If you have multiple duc dealers around where you live I would suggest you do a little comparison.
As far as the rear brake noise, noise doesn't always translate to issues in brakes. Keep in mind these brake pads lean more to the performance side, which do make some noise if ridin soft. Yes, there are quieter pads you can get. The pads that came with the 696 are noisier than some but still very effective IMO. Disclaimer: Don't slam on your rear brake just to get rid of the noise; you'll lock your rear wheel.
Also, don't ride when you're angry. It's dangerous for you, the people around you, and your ride. Ride safe!
Quote from: Sleeper_I on April 09, 2009, 09:23:35 PM
$250 after tax is a bit high unless parts and labor for the front sprocket is included. If you do a search in this forum for the 696 600 mile service you'll get a picture for a decent average bill which is ~$170ish. It also depends on your dealer's hourly labor charge and the tax for the region where your dealer is located as well. I got mine done for ~$150 after tax. If you have multiple duc dealers around where you live I would suggest you do a little comparison.
As far as the rear brake noise, noise doesn't always translate to issues in brakes. Keep in mind these brake pads lean more to the performance side, which do make some noise if ridin soft. Yes, there are quieter pads you can get. The pads that came with the 696 are noisier than some but still very effective IMO. Disclaimer: Don't slam on your rear brake just to get rid of the noise; you'll lock your rear wheel.
Also, don't ride when you're angry. It's dangerous for you, the people around you, and your ride. Ride safe!
Thanks for the constructive response. And no, with front sproket and labor it would be about $350.
Yeah, I only use the brakes as hard as I need to. I have tried to follow the book pretty closely with regards to break-in. Have I gone over 6000 rpms, probably, have I hit the brakes hard, yeah, if I need to stop quickly, otherwise I use engine breaking as often as possible and use progressive pressure on the brakes when I do need to come to a quick stop.
Good advice on riding angry. To be fair it was a very short ride with little to no traffic.
And to the guy that said motorcycles are not for the mechanically inclined, I am fairly intelligent so I can work my way through most problems, my point was that I shouldn't have to take the brakes off of a brand new bike and sand them down. If it is potentially an issue, it should be done from the factory.....
I thought the first service on the 696's weren't until 7000 miles? Either way, Doing your own oil change before hand will lower the price. The initial service is usually just an oil change, valve clearance check, and going over all of the fasteners to make sure they are still snug, which we should all do regularly anyway.
First off, don't ride and don't work on your bike when you're angry.
You can do a few things to save money: learn more about your bike -- this board is an excellent resource. Buy a shop manual for your bike and read it. Changing brake pads (or sanding old ones), brake fluid, oil/filter changes, and many more "routine" maintenance items are all things you can do yourself in short order and have fun doing it. For example, your 600 mile service includes an oil change.
Your brakes are probably squeeling because they have not been bedded in properly. "Going easy" on the brakes is not the proper way to bed them in.
Here's the bed in procedure I use:
• Run the motorcycle up to 30 MPH and bring bike to a gradual stop using a moderate/ normal deceleration rate (not panic or lock up stop). Do this for the new brake or alternate between brakes if both brakes are new. After stopping, hold brake pedal/ handle for 1 minute and allow pads to heat soak. Repeat stops 3 times allowing the brake to cool at least 30 seconds after each heat soak. Let brakes cool completely before going to the next step.
• Run the motorcycle up to 40 MPH and slow the bike to 20 MPH using a moderate / normal deceleration rate. Repeat stops 5 times allowing the brake to cool at least 30 seconds after each slow down.
• Run the motorcycle up to 60 MPH and slow the bike to 20 MPH using a moderate / normal deceleration rate. Repeat stops 5 times allowing the brake to cool at least 30 seconds after each slow down.
The Brakes are now bedded and ready for use, but performance will continue to improve after completing this procedure. When the system achieves elevated brake temperatures for the first time, a slight increase in pedal travel and pedal effort may occur. After this first "fade" and proper cooling, the system will maintain its optimum performance at all temperatures.
This completes the “break-in†of your pads to the rotor surface. Note any irregularities and report them to a 360 Brake technician for evaluation and problem solving. Full seating of your new brake pads normally occurs within 1000 miles.
Quote from: crankmonster on April 09, 2009, 06:33:10 PM
Bring the bike back and enjoy your car. Motorcycles are not for the mechanically deficient.
Got to love one track minds. [roll]
+1 to pompetta. i was also thinking of improperly bedded pads.
as for the procket.......its pretty easy to do yourself. here is a picture of the sprocket with numbers to help
1) loosen rear tire (after measuring chain tension) to get enough slack in chain
2) pull chain off sprocket
3) remove bolt number 14 (2 of these)
4) pull of number 13
5)remove sprocket (# 12) and put replacement on
6) reverse order and repeat
(http://i299.photobucket.com/albums/mm285/s2r1000/15t.jpg?t=1239363381)
You can also try heating the pads up nicely to clean off any debris by holding the brake and accelerating (giving throttle) for a short bit of time. Hell, you can't make them any worse from the sounds of it.
I find this works best to quickly clean my pads and brakes after they get nice and rusty (cast iron rotors) and don't want to bit well and/or squeak.
But bedding in as Pompetta mentioned is essential, especially if the pads are glazed over from improper bedding/excessive heat. And if use race-type pads (I'm sure the stockers aren't race rated), the speeds need to be increased.
Quote from: pompetta on April 10, 2009, 04:00:31 AM
This completes the “break-in†of your pads to the rotor surface. Note any irregularities and report them to a 360 Brake technician for evaluation and problem solving. Full seating of your new brake pads normally occurs within 1000 miles.
what is a "360 Brake technician???"
Service prices differ from dealer to dealer for two reasons. One is labor rates can varry from dealer to dealer quite a bit. A dealer in Buttmake the beast with two backs, rural USA may only be $60 an hour, in a big city labor can be over $100 an hour. Some dealers also do more extensive services than others, other dealers charge a low price for a basic service and charge extra for everything else. Find out exactly what they claim to do. I remember, back in 'o1 when my bike was in it's youth, over three hours were spent on my bike at the 600 mile service. Cam timing was checked, brake fluid flushed, synch, CO, etc. Some dealers change the oil and push it out the door. Oh, a third reason. Some are scoundrels.
As far as your brake noise goes. I can certainly understand why you are annoyed at your dealer's response. A definite lack of bedside manor. Anyway, you can follow ducatizzzz's advice (hand sanding is acceptable) and bed them in (either new or sanded). New brakes do not like light application. Follow Pompetta's advice if road conditions allow you to do this safely. The high spots on the pad get hot and carbonize, causing squeal.
Quote from: ducatizzzz on April 10, 2009, 05:47:18 AM
what is a "360 Brake technician???"
That's the name of the place he copied his bedding in procedure from.
I'm turning you, professor. You'll be hearing from the honor court soon. [laugh]
Quote from: Jobu on April 10, 2009, 06:04:44 AM
That's the name of the place he copied his bedding in procedure from.
I'm turning you, professor. You'll be hearing from the honor court soon. [laugh]
baaahhh hahahah
Quote from: Jobu on April 10, 2009, 06:04:44 AM
That's the name of the place he copied his bedding in procedure from.
I'm turning you, professor. You'll be hearing from the honor court soon. [laugh]
[laugh] Yeah, it looks like I edited out the part where I said I'd do a search. :P
Cut a finish nail into 2 1.5" pieces. Brace the turn signal top and bottom with the nails and tape with black electrical tape, wrapping as much as necessary to make it stable. I have already broken one of mine on my new 1100s. it doesn't matter to me, I am chopping the tail soon anyway which will alleviate the problem. I imagine yours broke as mine did, the small amnt of plastic holding the turn signal on is part of the rear fender, and will be replaced when chopping the tail. The black electrical tape works fine and isn't an eye sore, mine has been that way for a while.
when i had my 696 i did the oil change myself and they had the bike for half an hour to do the rest (which im pretty sure was absolutely nothing ) labor was $60 for the half hour.
As for the 14t sprocket,
1: Loosen rear wheel and slide all the way forward. (check torque)
2: Remove the black plastic sprocket cover (two screws - 5ft-lbs)
3: Remove slave cylinder (small piece left of front sprocket with clutch line running in) (three screws, 7ft-lbs)
4: Remove rear-set (some claim this isn't necessary, but it will make the procedure much easier.) (main hex nut is 24mm and 44ft-lbs, the two allen head bolts are ~8mm and torqued at 26ft-lbs) - these bolts are different lengths so make sure you remember which came from which hole. Also, you will have to have someone hold the bike upright because the front allen head bolt also holds the kickstand bracket and if you remove it the bike will fall on you.
5: Next, remove the bolt(s) holding the front sprocket, I can't remember how it is configured because my new bike has the new front sprocket single large nut (32mm). I believe yours has two small bolts and a locking plate that screw directly into the sprocket itself. (check torque) If they have started using the single 32mm nut on the updated 696s the torque is 137ft-lbs.
6: Slide the old sprocket off the shaft and the new one back on.
7: Reassemble everything in the order you took it apart and torque everything to spec (very important).
8: Slide the rear-wheel back until there is 1 to 1.5 inches of chain deflection...or what looks right. If you want you can measure the chain deflection before and after to make sure it is the same. Measure where the rear wheel is mounted on each side of the swingarm to make sure it is properly aligned before torquing down (there are markings on your swingarm, but I wouldn't trust them. I would measure it).
9: Enjoy the feeling of success, faster acceleration, and first gear power wheelies. [evil]
I thought the service cost for the 600 mile service was supposed to be set for all 07 and above? $250 for a 600 mile service is close to $100 higher than it should be...
QuoteI thought the service cost for the 600 mile service was supposed to be set for all 07 and above?
Yeah, seems like that's been forgotten, especially by dealers. I think it was a guideline and it sure doesn't seem like Ducati NA is doing much to enforce it. Once they got the increased sales from the lower maintenance cost advertising campaign, they probably forgot about it too.
Quote from: pompetta on April 10, 2009, 04:00:31 AM
After stopping, hold brake pedal/ handle for 1 minute and allow pads to heat soak.
Hey everything I've read says that when you're bedding in new pads, you should never actually come to a complete stop, because once the brand new pads get nice and hot, if they clamp down on the rotors when they're not moving they'll stick to the rotor, and leave some residue when you release the brake! I wonder if it really matters!
Quote from: Paegelow on April 11, 2009, 08:22:42 AM
Hey everything I've read says that when you're bedding in new pads, you should never actually come to a complete stop, because once the brand new pads get nice and hot, if they clamp down on the rotors when they're not moving they'll stick to the rotor, and leave some residue when you release the brake! I wonder if it really matters!
I think at the point they say to do it the pads are not yet that hot.
I don't use that procedure.
I use the stoptech method...
http://www.stoptech.com/tech_info/wp_warped_brakedisk.shtml (http://www.stoptech.com/tech_info/wp_warped_brakedisk.shtml)
Quote from: amcloud on April 10, 2009, 08:49:27 AM
As for the 14t sprocket,
3: Remove slave cylinder (small piece left of front sprocket with clutch line running in) (three screws, 7ft-lbs)
Amcloud thanks for that tidbit - the slave stymied me yesterday with a stripped hex head, wasn't sure
if I could remove without penalty - appears I can ( just need a replacement bolt first).
Thanks for the torque values as well.
I put a dab of blue locktite on the 2 small sprocket bolts.
QuoteI use the stoptech method...
Interesting read - thanks for posting the link. This guy sounds like the Mototune of brakes. Can't say I agree with everything he says be he's got a lot more brake experience than I do.
Quote from: Langanobob on April 12, 2009, 05:50:05 AM
Interesting read - thanks for posting the link. This guy sounds like the Mototune of brakes. Can't say I agree with everything he says be he's got a lot more brake experience than I do.
I can't say I honestly understand it all, much like the mototune guy, but his bed in procedure saved a set of Brembo rotors for me.
I think for my last set of (Galfer) pads, I didn't use the entire procedure. I just went from 60mph to 20mph under braking, let them cool and repeat four times. Seems to have worked just fine -- great stopping and no jutter or screeching.
Quote from: seevtsaab on April 12, 2009, 04:38:12 AM
Amcloud thanks for that tidbit - the slave stymied me yesterday with a stripped hex head, wasn't sure
if I could remove without penalty - appears I can ( just need a replacement bolt first).
Thanks for the torque values as well.
I put a dab of blue locktite on the 2 small sprocket bolts.
Not a problem. Learn all you can and don't be afraid to tackle projects with a little info. These bikes are really pretty simple to work on. Ride safe.
Quote from: Langanobob on April 12, 2009, 05:50:05 AM
Interesting read - thanks for posting the link. This guy sounds like the Mototune of brakes. Can't say I agree with everything he says be he's got a lot more brake experience than I do.
I don't think what they claim holds true for an older Honda Accord or some other cars with marginal brakes, but I believe it holds true for our bikes and high perfomance cars, though I don't follow their bedding practice here in NYC. You can just imagine trying that on the Cross Bronx Expressway :P I do try and avoid extremely light application though. We had a bunch of Lexus rotors at school that warranteed for pulsation for students to practice on. None of these were measured out of spec.
Question about the 600 mile service. If I change the oil myself, what oil should I use so that the dealer can't claim that I did it wrong?
I'm also trying to minimize the first service cost. Honestly I really need the dealer to just turn off that annoying service indicator. Looking at the service manual, there's no valve check for the M696 at 600 miles service. So it's more or less just chain tension check and adjustment, bolt / fastener torque checks, oil change and reset the service indicator.
Thanks.
Quote from: peanut_man on April 13, 2009, 07:45:13 AM
Question about the 600 mile service. If I change the oil myself, what oil should I use so that the dealer can't claim that I did it wrong?
I'm also trying to minimize the first service cost. Honestly I really need the dealer to just turn off that annoying service indicator. Looking at the service manual, there's no valve check for the M696 at 600 miles service. So it's more or less just chain tension check and adjustment, bolt / fastener torque checks, oil change and reset the service indicator.
Thanks.
a reputable, full synthetic 10w40 with a "4T" rating.
I use Mobil1 4T (formerly MX4T)
if you are in a hot climate, i.e. above 100 frequently, you can use a heavier weight 15w50. Mobil also makes one, called Mobil1 Vtwin.
There are plenty of other good brands, just make sure it's a) full synthetic and b) rated for 4T / JASO /etc
I get Mobil1 4t at Advance auto for $9/qt
This may have been said, but I have a lot of experience with Brembo brakes. The bad news is they all pretty much squeak and make really annoying noise. That includes the massively expensive Bentley GT. The pad compound they use is fairly aggressive and is prone to noise. It is normal, and does not mean there is something wrong. From my experience even if you sand the pads the sound will eventually come back. It is one of the quirks of Brembo. They are still one of the best brakes money can buy auto or motorcycle.
You can turn off the Maint indicator I think - at least on older bikes. Someone with a 696 could chime in.
mitt
Quote from: ryanracer on April 14, 2009, 05:48:26 AM
This may have been said, but I have a lot of experience with Brembo brakes. The bad news is they all pretty much squeak and make really annoying noise. That includes the massively expensive Bentley GT. The pad compound they use is fairly aggressive and is prone to noise. It is normal, and does not mean there is something wrong. From my experience even if you sand the pads the sound will eventually come back. It is one of the quirks of Brembo. They are still one of the best brakes money can buy auto or motorcycle.
Same thing with Porsches. Brembos OEM and they are noisy if you drive em with a soft foot. We just take em around the block and give a few good hard stops and they shut up.
And Crankmonster, What the make the beast with two backs is your deal?
Quote from: peanut_man on April 13, 2009, 07:45:13 AM
Question about the 600 mile service. If I change the oil myself, what oil should I use so that the dealer can't claim that I did it wrong?
I'm also trying to minimize the first service cost. Honestly I really need the dealer to just turn off that annoying service indicator. Looking at the service manual, there's no valve check for the M696 at 600 miles service. So it's more or less just chain tension check and adjustment, bolt / fastener torque checks, oil change and reset the service indicator.
Thanks.
ducati should honor warranty if you do the oil change. just make sure and use quality oil/filter, and keep the receipts. here is the link for how to (http://ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=8734.0) turn the service light off for the 696 [thumbsup] make sure and run around the bike and check for stuff that should not be loose as well. if you are mechanically inclined, this will save you some money. OTOH, if you lack the tools or the comfort to do this, its worth getting the bike into a shop so that they can give it a once over. just make sure that they understand your expectation on that.
Quote from: brickdogg on April 09, 2009, 05:49:51 PM
So today I went to my shop where I got the bike to get something gear related taken care of. I went to talk to the shop manager while I was there to price out my 600 mile service as I am getting close and also to ask about the brake noise that I posted about previously. He quoted me $250 after tax. Does that sound about right to you folks? Is there anything I could/should/shouldn't do myself to bring the cost down? Then I asked about doing the front sprocket at the same time. $100!! Many people on here were saying they were just paying for the part when they had it in and this guy wants to charge me part and labor. I have not seen a how to on changing the sprocket on the 696 so if anyone can I would like to take a look. Thanks!
Now for my rant.... (Yeah that was just warm up)..... so I asked about the brakes. The guy says, very matter-of-factly, yeah, some of them do that..... then advised me I can take the pads off and try sanding them down ::shrug:: I am not very mechanical and this is a BRAND NEW BIKE! I shouldn't have to do anything to make it work properly! It just should, and to me, loudly schreeching brakes means something is not right....
To make matters worse, I had to run out for wife last night and as I am getting on/off the bike (so mad I can't remember which) and I barely hit the rear blinker with my foot and it breaks off!! What cheap crap are they using on these bikes? There is no way due to the position of the exhaust to get a solid hit on the blinker so it is clear it had to be a glancing blow.... waiting on response from dealer to see what they can do for me.... So angry right now....
Hi, Just had my 600 mile service for my 2009 696. $325 from Ducati NYC. I knew there was a service bullitine recall about wires, plus they hopefully checked everything on the bike. I've had no issues with her.. knock on wood.
For the 14t change it's an additional job for the dealer so it's only fair they be compensated for the work they do. I hope you get paid for what you do as well. I would suggest you take it on as a DIY project before your shop service so they will adjust chain tension properly after you do. One less thing to worry if you got it right.
Sorry to hear about your signal mishap. You should be able to find plenty replacements cheap form the guys who replace them via mods. Just check the "Parts for Sale" posts.