Note: This was not done due to any animal rights issues, etc. Purely an eating lifestyle change.
Background:
I was really only eating meat. Very little vegetables and no fruit. Never would eat breakfast, would eat a small lunch, and then dinner would consist of a meat dish (mostly red meat) and maybe some couscous or something.
Therefore, in an effort to become healthier in my eating habits, the wife and I decided let's try being vegetarians (we will eat fish) and see how long it lasts.
Result:
Holy shit, do I feel a lot better. My stomach and body feels much healthier as a result of this change. We both cheated today and had some lamb since it is Easter and all. I had two pieces, the wife had one. We both agreed afterwards our stomachs felt like shit. It seems that when you are not eating meat, your stomach is lighter and seems to digest so much easier.
I've gotten into having breakfast. I either make scrambled eggs (with cheese, onion, jalops, etc) or a smoothie (frozen fruit, light OJ, skim milk, yogurt, 25g of soy protein powder, etc).
Lunch consists of some carrots and a salad. I also mix in grilled cheese, etc.
Dinner is a bit harder, need to start getting into some sort of veggie stir fry.
Anyone else make a large diet change like this?
Again, this was not done for any animal rights issues, etc. Just a lifestyle change in an effort to eat healthier.
I also swapped drinking beer and moved to Vodka and light OJ (found a brand that only has 9g of sugar per 8oz serving, which is fantastic. Not to mention Kroger has it mislabled on pricing. It should be 3.79 regular, marked down to 2 for 5$, but for some reason it rings up for only $0.75!! I bought like 6 of them, just to stock up due to the cheap ass price)
FYI: Fish are not vegetables. ;)
I've been a vegetarian for a couple years nowâ€"purely health reasons. Vegan (no animal protein at all) would be ideal for me, but it's almost impossible to maintain a healthy vegan diet easily in this society/culture. Dairy is awfully difficult to avoid. :-\
Enjoy all the fresh food you can get your hands on, my flat-toothed, long-intestined, slow-digesting, alkaline-stomached friend! [wine]
Quote from: MrIncredible on April 12, 2009, 06:46:18 PM
FYI: Fish are not vegetables. ;)
Several types of vegetarians. Since CB is eating eggs and fish..ovo-vegetarian is out. I think he falls into the "Flexetarian" category. Eats mostly vegetarian diet with occassional meats.
Healthy life-style change..always good! [thumbsup]
Since you've eliminated the negative stuff..you might see some good gains in muscle mass/physique if you're still working out at the gym.
Go the Paleo route.
Quote from: kopfjager on April 12, 2009, 07:07:15 PM
Go the Paleo route.
Paleo as in back when people worked all day hunting on foot in order to eat rationed portions of lean, wild, healthy game that came free of toxins?
Quote from: wark on April 12, 2009, 07:17:46 PM
Paleo as in back when people worked all day hunting on foot in order to eat rationed portions of lean, wild, healthy game that came free of toxins?
As in The Paleo Diet or The Paleo Diet for Athletes, by Loren Cordain. [thumbsup]
I dated a girl that had been a vegetarian for most of her life. She was in her early 40s when I knew here . She was thin for the most part. I was amazed that she still had rather large breasts that were real.
She didn't have her period anymore which was strange. She wasn't on the Pill. Other than her Boobs, she looked anorexic.
She didn't get colds or have anything that she had to take meds for. Actually she hadn't been to a Doctor in years and years. She really didn't believe in modern Medicine.
I could see being a vegetarian if I could come up with enough different things to eat to keep me satisfied.
I do like Organic Cereal and Fruit flavored lite Yogurt and Dried fruit. I eat vegetables raw .
I could probably exist on Stir Fry , and Green Tea w, Ginseng.
I really don't like the taste of meat ! Dolph :)
I've been veggie for 16 years. There's some good veggie chicken substitutes from Morning Star Farms. The patties are fast food sorta fare that you would probably want to avoid, but their meal starter strips work great in stir fry and don't weigh you down.
Quote from: IZ on April 12, 2009, 07:05:26 PM
Several types of vegetarians. Since CB is eating eggs and fish..ovo-vegetarian is out. I think he falls into the "Flexetarian" category. Eats mostly vegetarian diet with occassional meats.
Pescetarian would be the correct term.
Quote from: wark on April 12, 2009, 07:17:46 PM
Paleo as in back when people worked all day hunting on foot in order to eat rationed portions of lean, wild, healthy game that came free of toxins?
What is a "toxin"?
I tried to give up eating red meat about two years ago an feel much better. I've been able to keep it at about twice a month. Being married to a vegetarian (of 20 years) helps drastically.
Lemme know if you want I'll send ya some books we no longer use.
good for both of you and good luck.
Quote from: IZ on April 12, 2009, 07:05:26 PM
Several types of vegetarians. Since CB is eating eggs and fish..ovo-vegetarian is out. I think he falls into the "Flexetarian" category. Eats mostly vegetarian diet with occassional meats.
Healthy life-style change..always good! [thumbsup]
Since you've eliminated the negative stuff..you might see some good gains in muscle mass/physique if you're still working out at the gym.
No desire to go the Vegan route, that is just way too complex and nothing I am interested in. You go Vegan for straight "political animal" issues and that is not something I am for, so that avenue is out. I just figured throwing in some tuna and other fish will give me natural protein outside of the soy/whey protein.
Unfortunately, my working out will be limited to cardio only, primarily bike at this point.
I just had my 3rd shoulder surgery in January to repair dislocations due to torn labrums, so I don't think weight training is in my near future or something I will every play with again. I was told by my surgeon (well known) that this is probably the last time they can repair anything due to all the scar tissue and titanium pins (5 of them) drilled into my joint.
For me, I actually got pretty ripped about 3 years ago but shoulder issues started popping up again and killed my weight lifting.
Quote from: kopfjager on April 12, 2009, 07:07:15 PM
Go the Paleo route.
My brother goes that way. He calls it the Caveman Diet. My Father is a Cardiologist and reviews all of our bloodwork and informed my brother that based on his current numbers, he is at risk to be a type 2 diabetic later in life.
Sort of interesting considering my brother is highly active. He played Division 1 college football and works out daily.
He recently passed a Navy Seal Endurance test in chicago, which can land you in BUDS. However, he turns 35 this year so that will exclude him since he is out of age bracket and would require special waivers. Not to mention, he has had 2 ACL repairs.
Quote from: MrIncredible on April 12, 2009, 07:30:09 PM
What is a "toxin"?
All that shit they pump into cattle, pigs, etc to get them bigger faster.
Quote from: trouble on April 12, 2009, 07:34:44 PM
I tried to give up eating red meat about two years ago an feel much better. I've been able to keep it at about twice a month. Being married to a vegetarian (of 20 years) helps drastically.
Lemme know if you want I'll send ya some books we no longer use.
good for both of you and good luck.
Thank you for the offer!
I'll shoot you a PM and PDF you a shipping label.
< bookmark >
Quote from: DrDesmosedici on April 12, 2009, 07:44:43 PM
< bookmark >
[laugh] [laugh]
betting how long this lasts????
I will update if I go off the rocker, but I gotta tell you, I am digging it now. It is so much different.
I guess my main issue is coming up with a variety of meals so I don't get sick of the same shit day in and day out.
Quote from: cyrus buelton on April 12, 2009, 07:41:00 PM
No desire to go the Vegan route, that is just way too complex and nothing I am interested in. You go Vegan for straight "political animal" issues and that is not something I am for, so that avenue is out. I just figured throwing in some tuna and other fish will give me natural protein outside of the soy/whey protein.
Unfortunately, my working out will be limited to cardio only, primarily bike at this point.
I just had my 3rd shoulder surgery in January to repair dislocations due to torn labrums, so I don't think weight training is in my near future or something I will every play with again. I was told by my surgeon (well known) that this is probably the last time they can repair anything due to all the scar tissue and titanium pins (5 of them) drilled into my joint.
For me, I actually got pretty ripped about 3 years ago but shoulder issues started popping up again and killed my weight lifting.
My brother goes that way. He calls it the Caveman Diet. My Father is a Cardiologist and reviews all of our bloodwork and informed my brother that based on his current numbers, he is at risk to be a type 2 diabetic later in life.
Sort of interesting considering my brother is highly active. He played Division 1 college football and works out daily.
He recently passed a Navy Seal Endurance test in chicago, which can land you in BUDS. However, he turns 35 this year so that will exclude him since he is out of age bracket and would require special waivers. Not to mention, he has had 2 ACL repairs.
All that shit they pump into cattle, pigs, etc to get them bigger faster.
Thank you for the offer!
I'll shoot you a PM and PDF you a shipping label.
You have definitely pressed your luck with all those Surgeries. Lucky to have not acquired an Antibiotic Resistant Hospital Bacteria like MERSA. Dolph
Quote from: cyrus buelton on April 12, 2009, 07:57:27 PM
[laugh] [laugh]
betting how long this lasts????
I will update if I go off the rocker, but I gotta tell you, I am digging it now. It is so much different.
I guess my main issue is coming up with a variety of meals so I don't get sick of the same shit day in and day out.
Not at all - I've been considering doing the same thing for a
while and am likely to do the same soon [thumbsup]
This place is near a lot of routes I usually do: http://cafeindigo.com/ (http://cafeindigo.com/) and I've eaten there several times. DELICIOUS.
Adam
Quote from: DoubleEagle on April 12, 2009, 07:59:25 PM
You have definitely pressed your luck with all those Surgeries. Lucky to have not acquired an Antibiotic Resistant Hospital Bacteria like MERSA. Dolph
Dude, I don't want to even get into the shit of my shoulder issues. It has make the beast with two backsing sucked and continues to. My first surgery was a night in the actual hospital. Second one was at a high end surgicenter and I ended up spending the night because they fed me way too many narcotics and I was off my rocker. I kept trying to check myself out at 11p claiming my girlfriend was coming to pick me up. Well, I didn't even have a girlfriend at the time. Apparently the doctor called my Dad at home (professional courtesy deal) and then my Dad called me (I had my mobile with me, god knows how many people I called and the ones that talked to me a few days later wondering what was wrong with me) pretty much saying my Doc called him at home and he put an executive block on me leaving.
Surgery 1: torn labrum, doctor inserted 3 pins in the front of my shoulder, leaving me a nice 4.5" scar. (January 1999)
8 months later pain resumed; visit to doctor showed that one pin had sheared out of my joint and now was floating in my shoulder cavity.
Met a great doctor through friends. Research showed very very positive feedback.
Surgery 2: Removed broken pin, drilled in 3 more and patched up the others. (February 2001)
Years pass, completely blow ligaments off my right ankle joint playing soccer (injury to shoulder happened during soccer as well) and opted not for surgery. Running and sports life have now ended at age 23.5
My doberman was getting her nightly walk and decided to chase a rabbit while my dumbass was holding the leash with my left (repaired) hand.
Figure out what happens.
Go see a fantastic rated Ortho Surgeon in Columbus who is nationally known. Looks at my history, says there is an issue but gives me the downlow:
1. It gets better
2. It stays the same
3. It gets worse
I opted to get it better, as I had been on Loratab (vicodin) for 3 months
Surgery 3: give me a front shoulder block, as damage from MRI (which was scheduled for 65 minutes, I lasted 15min due to shoulder pain) showed possible front issue, but since my shoulder was shaking during the entire MRI, results were not conclusive). Torn in the back, stitched up, back home in 5 hours.
have a steak will ya
Quote from: MrIncredible on April 12, 2009, 07:30:09 PM
Pescetarian would be the correct term.
No.
Flexitarian eats mostly vegetarian diet with occassional meats. What CB has described.
Pescetarian..does not eat meat except fish.
CB said he already cheated and ate lamb today, right?! So..that would put him in the flex category.
Quote from: cyrus buelton on April 12, 2009, 07:41:00 PMYou go Vegan for straight "political animal" issues and that is not something I am for, so that avenue is out.
make the beast with two backs animals. ;)
Vegans avoid dairy in addition to meat for a variety of health reasons. Here are a few: http://chetday.com/prostatecancermilk.htm (http://chetday.com/prostatecancermilk.htm)
I love the taste of meat. I grew up eating some of the best and freshest cuts in the world. I am just about the most carnivorous person you will ever meet.
Meat is the proof that god exists and want us to be happy.
Btw, I eat my meat rare-medium rare. Yum.
Quote from: IZ on April 12, 2009, 08:47:26 PM
No.
Flexitarian eats mostly vegetarian diet with occassional meats. What CB has described.
Pescetarian..does not eat meat except fish.
CB said he already cheated and ate lamb today, right?! So..that would put him in the flex category.
Blah de blah blah-basically he just eats healthy now. He was an omnivore before, and he still is one. Nothing has changed.
Good luck with the change.
I like Bacon and Proscuitto too much to go vegetarian. I really like Proscuitto! ;D ;D [bacon]
My wife and I have drastically cut back on the red meat though in the last 6 months. We used to eat it 3 times a week...now it's more like once every other week. We also eat more fish, and actually have dinners without meat every so often.
Quote from: El Matador on April 12, 2009, 08:59:41 PM
I love the taste of meat. I grew up eating some of the best and freshest cuts in the world. I am just about the most carnivorous person you will ever meet.
Meat is the proof that god exists and want us to be happy.
Btw, I eat my meat rare-medium rare. Yum.
Do you like..fishsticks?
Quote from: IZ on April 12, 2009, 09:02:21 PM
Do you like..fishsticks?
I really need to watch that episode so I get the joke.
I am mainly a Pescetarian but I do love a good 30 day dry aged steak occasionally.
Quote from: IZ on April 12, 2009, 09:02:21 PM
Do you like..fishsticks?
I am, admittedly, a gay fish. [thumbsup]
Speaking of, the Jonas Brothers one was just pure comedic gold. Goddman, mickey is the shit.
Quote from: Triple J on April 12, 2009, 09:01:40 PM
Good luck with the change.
I like Bacon and Proscuitto too much to go vegetarian. I really like Proscuitto! ;D ;D [bacon]
Proscuitto wrapped around breadstcks with melon. YUM!! [thumbsup]
I had that just about everyday for a 2 months after we came home from IT. Good stuff!
Haven't had it in awhile. Thanks for the reminder!
You should be eating fish everyday anyway TJJJ. You live in Seattle! [cheeky]
ROBS..You're not missing anything. It was really a dumb episode!
in 1997 i made a major change in my life. my sister came to live with me, and she would not eat red meat.
change: my diet changed from primarily red meat and vegetables to fish and chicken and vegatables
result: i still eat red meat, but very infrequently. no mistake,... i still love a well marbled bone in rib eye. but i feel better, i think i have a much more well balanced diet, and i have opened new horizons where food is concerned.
today: my sister is long gone. i eat chicken or fish 3-4 times for every red meat meal. i actually prefer garden burgers over hamburgers. i am in NO way a vegetarian, but i think that i have found a good balance in my diet. after all, human animals are not herbivores...
My wife recently started weight-watcers and it has been beneficial to both of us. It is hard to cook for one, so I usually eat the same thing she does. We still eat meat, it's just less. Also, it's much more expensive to eat healthy!
My wife has been a vegetarian since age 18, not really due to ethics, but just taste. I still eat meat almost daily, but less than I would 'normally'. I think a balanced diet - a little bit of everything - is key to a healthy lifestyle. It rubs off on your kids too - our 2 year old daughter has never been to a McDonalds, and can name every fresh fruit and vegetable at the grocery store.
Good luck cyrus!
mitt
[thumbsup] to everyone making changes in order to live a healthier lifestyle.
Everyone who wants to eat more fruits and vegetables doing the vegan/vegetarian thing or not should look into produce co-ops in your area. My wife and I do one here in the Phoenix area and for $15 we get one laundry basket full of fruit and one full of vegetables which we figured is at least $30+ worth of produce a pop. You get some of the common produce items every week but you also get some more exotic items for you to try so you can add more flavors to your new healthy diet.
Quote from: NAKID on April 13, 2009, 05:27:23 AM
Also, it's much more expensive to eat healthy!
It doesn't have to be.
Quote from: somegirl on April 13, 2009, 07:12:10 AM
It doesn't have to be.
I think most studies show that healthy foods are more expensive. It mainly comes from the fact that fresh food is more expensive than processed boxed / canned food.
mitt
Quote from: mitt on April 13, 2009, 07:13:59 AM
I think most studies show that healthy foods are more expensive. It mainly comes from the fact that fresh food is more expensive than processed boxed / canned food.
Rice and beans are cheap and nutritious. Buy produce that is on special or from a farmers market / produce stand.
You don't have to spend a lot of money to eat healthy.
Now, if you want healthy convenience foods, that will be much more expensive than regular convenience foods.
Quote from: somegirl on April 13, 2009, 07:12:10 AM
It doesn't have to be.
I was going to say the same thing.
Our grocery bill is actually less since we quit buying meat.
Our Graphics Manager is a full on Vegan. And I have never met ANYONE who complains more about stomach problems in my life. [laugh]
That being said, what I have learned over the course of the last week is a major diet change ot only helps you feel better but also boosts your creativity. I was VERY bored with egg whites by the second day of my diet. But now, I have 5 different ways of making them and each one is tasty and delicious.
I cut most red meat out of my diet but I am still allowed up to 9 ounces a day if I choose over 2 meals. But I have limited that to a couple of 5 ounce tenderloins this past week and plan on doing the same. This coming from eating the vast majority of my diet as red meat and heavy startchy vegetables.
And this week I feel great. No coffee in the mornings (caffeine constricting the blood vessels and all that), no pop throughout the day, and no afternoon candy binges.
ANd I have found that when you start practicing portion control, your initial purchase f food stuffs is a bit higher but it lasts longer...
Quote from: NAKID on April 13, 2009, 05:27:23 AM
My wife recently started weight-watcers and it has been beneficial to both of us. It is hard to cook for one, so I usually eat the same thing she does. We still eat meat, it's just less. Also, it's much more expensive to eat healthy!
I have noticed that weight watchers is a make the beast with two backsing sham.
There are plenty of cookbooks out there to make meals from that follow the same concept.
Go buy this one.......
Diabetic Meals in 30 minutes or less.
It is like 12$ at Barnes and Noble.
My wife has poor self motivation. We did eat too large of portions before and we knew that. This helps her in that way and also when she goes to meetings because she doesn't want to disappoint the people at the meeting...
Quote from: cyrus buelton on April 13, 2009, 07:35:39 AM
I have noticed that weight watchers is a make the beast with two backsing sham.
for people who aren't quite perfect it helps with portion control. For some perhaps the money trade off for that help and convenience is worth it.
having a more controlled environment about food helps people from making bad choices.
Hell, look at the difference between your posts here versus other places. Sometimes outside pressure/assistance/help is a good thing. [cheeky]
(http://www.grannybuttons.com/granny_buttons/WindowsLiveWriter/Curious%20cows%206819b.jpg)
we'll be back
Quote from: Statler on April 13, 2009, 08:15:37 AM
for people who aren't quite perfect it helps with portion control. For some perhaps the money trade off for that help and convenience is worth it.
having a more controlled environment about food helps people from making bad choices.
Hell, look at the difference between your posts here versus other places. Sometimes outside pressure/assistance/help is a good thing. [cheeky]
I understand the support aspect of portion control, but when you start looking into what is in their food........it isn't great.
The meals they sell are chalked full of sugar and sodium, but everyone needs something different to motivate towards a healthier lifestyle, so to each their own.
hey now...........I have lost my hostility and anger management issues about a year ago.
Quote from: El Matador on April 12, 2009, 08:59:41 PM
I love the taste of meat. I grew up eating some of the best and freshest cuts in the world. I am just about the most carnivorous person you will ever meet.
Meat is the proof that god exists and want us to be happy.
Btw, I eat my meat rare-medium rare. Yum.
+1.
What I noticed about Cyrus's diet is a lack of balance (before he went all wack-o vegetarian); this will pose problems for anyone. I eat a lot of meat (locally-grown, natural, very lean), but I balance my diet, as well.
Quote from: cyrus buelton on April 13, 2009, 07:29:31 AM
I was going to say the same thing.
Our grocery bill is actually less since we quit buying meat.
Should def be doable to spend less like that. My steaks/roasts are not cheap.
Quote from: MrIncredible on April 13, 2009, 09:27:47 AM
Should def be doable to spend less like that. My steaks/roasts are not cheap.
I can make about 6 meals worth of lentils from a $1.25 bag.
Quote from: cyrus buelton on April 13, 2009, 08:28:05 AM
I understand the support aspect of portion control, but when you start looking into what is in their food........it isn't great.
The meals they sell are chalked full of sugar and sodium, but everyone needs something different to motivate towards a healthier lifestyle, so to each their own.
hey now...........I have lost my hostility and anger management issues about a year ago.
We don't buy their meals. We buy food and make it from recipes found online or in a book she has. Any "Diet Plan" meals are typically rip offs. So far this has worked really well and she has lost just over 12lbs in 4 weeks...
Also, she spends at least 30 mins a day on Wii Fit since she stays at home all day with the little one...
a completely vegetarian lifestyle isn't appropriate for humans. long-term vegetarians always show muscle degradation, common b12 deficiency and deviant sexuality.
i was 100% vegetarian for over 20 years and it took its toll on me. 100% veg means no fish too. protein sources were cheese, beans, legumes, etc. however, i developed a b12 deficiency which i had to get supplemental shots for, and then my muscle/fat ratio started going wrong.
if you think of the vegetarians (granivores, herbivores, etc) in nature, you see a pattern: high activity, good muscle tone (i.e. horses and kangaroos) and low activity, crappy muscle tone (cows, sheep, etc). I know it isn't as simple as that, but unless you are as active as a wild horse, your vegetarian diet will turn you into a cow over time -- slowly. your current muscle mass will remain, but it will slowly change over time due to the inconsistent protein in your diet and lowered b12.
you can supplement your diet and be a healthy vegetarian, but i got tired of having to get shots, drink powder stuff and try exotic (expensive) food sources to stay healthy. i asked my doctor, and she basically said "humans need to have about 5-15% of their diet from animal sources, i.e. meat" i talked to various nutritionists and got the same reply from ones i would consider sane. the nutty ones who pushed a vegetarian diet didn't want to hear about my muscle/fat ratio and one even said "people are too big and should be smaller." wtf??
suffice it to say, i started eating fish and then 2 years later, lamb. my overall health improved, i started feeling better and my muscle/fat ratio is coming back to where i want it -- without hours of gym time.
Quote from: ducatizzzz on April 13, 2009, 09:39:25 AM
a completely vegetarian lifestyle isn't appropriate for humans. long-term vegetarians always show muscle degradation, common b12 deficiency and deviant sexuality.
i was 100% vegetarian for over 20 years and it took its toll on me. 100% veg means no fish too. protein sources were cheese, beans, legumes, etc. however, i developed a b12 deficiency which i had to get supplemental shots for, and then my muscle/fat ratio started going wrong.
if you think of the vegetarians (granivores, herbivores, etc) in nature, you see a pattern: high activity, good muscle tone (i.e. horses and kangaroos) and low activity, crappy muscle tone (cows, sheep, etc). I know it isn't as simple as that, but unless you are as active as a wild horse, your vegetarian diet will turn you into a cow over time -- slowly. your current muscle mass will remain, but it will slowly change over time due to the inconsistent protein in your diet and lowered b12.
you can supplement your diet and be a healthy vegetarian, but i got tired of having to get shots, drink powder stuff and try exotic (expensive) food sources to stay healthy. i asked my doctor, and she basically said "humans need to have about 5-15% of their diet from animal sources, i.e. meat" i talked to various nutritionists and got the same reply from ones i would consider sane. the nutty ones who pushed a vegetarian diet didn't want to hear about my muscle/fat ratio and one even said "people are too big and should be smaller." wtf??
suffice it to say, i started eating fish and then 2 years later, lamb. my overall health improved, i started feeling better and my muscle/fat ratio is coming back to where i want it -- without hours of gym time.
Did you eat eggs?
Quote from: MrIncredible on April 13, 2009, 09:27:47 AM
My steaks/roasts are not cheap.
Buy it from the butcher. I buy a half a beef for $2.09/lb...for everything. It's grain-fed, natural, and lean as lean can be. It's the next best thing to elk, really.
Quote from: mitt on April 13, 2009, 10:03:48 AM
Did you eat eggs?
yes. i meant to include that in my list of proteins. i probably had eggs 2-3 times a week (about 4-6 eggs/week)
Quote from: ducatizzzz on April 13, 2009, 10:05:54 AM
yes. i meant to include that in my list of proteins. i probably had eggs 2-3 times a week (about 4-6 eggs/week)
And that still wasn't enough? I worry about my wife over time, since she eats no meat or fish, just eggs, cheese, beans, etc.
mitt
Quote from: mitt on April 13, 2009, 10:10:45 AM
And that still wasn't enough? I worry about my wife over time, since she eats no meat or fish, just eggs, cheese, beans, etc.
mitt
no, it wasn't for me. i can't explain it, but a good doctor with a nutritionist can. humans are genuinely omnivores, so basically, if it's edible, we are probably supposed to eat it at some point (category-wise). animal proteins have unique characteristics which don't occur in other protein sources.
b12 presence in eggs and milk is much lower than in flesh, and there has been plenty of documentation of lacto-ovo vegetarians becoming b12 anemic.
if she is willing to supplement with shots and mix up the protein sources, she should be ok. the BIG issue is b12, which affects so many things in humans.
best idea is to get blood work and find out what b12 levels are now ,and check them every 3 months. they should be within range. if they are slowly decreasing, then b12 intake and ABSORPTION is insufficient.
For females, iron is an issue as well. The human body does not absorb elemental iron very well, so just taking iron supplements sometimes isn't enough. With a woman's monthly cycle we lose a lot of iron, and it doesn't take long for iron deficiency anemia to occur. Iron from meat sources is already in heme form which is immediately bioavailable.
Quote from: SheMonster on April 13, 2009, 11:12:04 AM
For females, iron is an issue as well. The human body does not absorb elemental iron very well, so just taking iron supplements sometimes isn't enough. With a woman's monthly cycle we lose a lot of iron, and it doesn't take long for iron deficiency anemia to occur. Iron from meat sources is already in heme form which is immediately bioavailable.
Yep, been over that bridge before.
mitt
Quote from: NAKID on April 13, 2009, 09:39:02 AM
... We buy food and make it from recipes found online or in a book she has.
Any books you recommend? [thumbsup]
Adam
Quote from: Sinister on April 13, 2009, 10:05:46 AM
Buy it from the butcher. I buy a half a beef for $2.09/lb...for everything. It's grain-fed, natural, and lean as lean can be. It's the next best thing to elk, really.
What is half a beef?
As I said........
this is not permanent.
It is a move to broaden my eating horizons and eventually will back in to meat, but in smaller portions.
I really don't think I need to throw down a 16oz NY Strip every sunday night.
Quote from: IZ on April 12, 2009, 09:08:52 PM
You should be eating fish everyday anyway TJJJ. You live in Seattle! [cheeky]
If it was up to me we'd eat fish 3-4 times per week. Molly isn't a big fan of fish though. :-\ I've made progress, as when we met she wouldn't even touch the stuff...but it's slow going. I think it's her meat and potatoes upbringing, coupled with her always having crappy fish as a kid. It's amazing how bad fish can be if it isn't fresh...but how good it can be when it is.
+1 on Sinister's butcher comments. Finding a good butcher that serves lean, natural (as opposed to organic...good but pricey) meats makes you wonder how you ever ate differently.
Quote from: Triple J on April 13, 2009, 11:38:27 AM
If it was up to me we'd eat fish 3-4 times per week.
Eating that much fish really isn't very healthy.
Heavy metals in the water (i.e. mercury)
Quote from: DrDesmosedici on April 13, 2009, 11:34:59 AM
Any books you recommend? [thumbsup]
Adam
hey dude, shoot me a PM
I've got several good ones.
Quote from: ducatizzzz on April 13, 2009, 09:39:25 AM
a completely vegetarian lifestyle isn't appropriate for humans. long-term vegetarians always show muscle degradation, common b12 deficiency and deviant sexuality.
i was 100% vegetarian for over 20 years and it took its toll on me. 100% veg means no fish too. protein sources were cheese, beans, legumes, etc. however, i developed a b12 deficiency which i had to get supplemental shots for, and then my muscle/fat ratio started going wrong.
if you think of the vegetarians (granivores, herbivores, etc) in nature, you see a pattern: high activity, good muscle tone (i.e. horses and kangaroos) and low activity, crappy muscle tone (cows, sheep, etc). I know it isn't as simple as that, but unless you are as active as a wild horse, your vegetarian diet will turn you into a cow over time -- slowly. your current muscle mass will remain, but it will slowly change over time due to the inconsistent protein in your diet and lowered b12.
you can supplement your diet and be a healthy vegetarian, but i got tired of having to get shots, drink powder stuff and try exotic (expensive) food sources to stay healthy. i asked my doctor, and she basically said "humans need to have about 5-15% of their diet from animal sources, i.e. meat" i talked to various nutritionists and got the same reply from ones i would consider sane. the nutty ones who pushed a vegetarian diet didn't want to hear about my muscle/fat ratio and one even said "people are too big and should be smaller." wtf??
suffice it to say, i started eating fish and then 2 years later, lamb. my overall health improved, i started feeling better and my muscle/fat ratio is coming back to where i want it -- without hours of gym time.
Keep in mind that your [possibly diseased] physiology does not represent mankind as a wholeâ€"I know mine doesn't!
Think of George Burns w/r/t smoking. Just because he lived to be 100 smoking multiple cigars each day doesn't mean it won't kill you prematurely. Everyone is different.
Regarding B12 (which is synthesized in human intestines), here is an interesting one:
http://www.drmcdougall.com/misc/2007nl/nov/b12.htm (http://www.drmcdougall.com/misc/2007nl/nov/b12.htm)
QuoteAlmost all cases of vitamin B12 deficiency seen in patients today and in the past are due to diseases of the intestine, and are not due to a lack of B12 in their diet. Damage to the stomach (parietal cells) usually from an autoimmune disease or surgery halts the production of intrinsic factor. Damage to the ileum, preventing reabsorption and interrupting recirculation, causes the loss of B12. Over a period of 3 to 6 years the body's stores of vitamin B12 are depleted. The disease that results is called pernicious anemia. (The word pernicious refers to a tendency to cause death or serious injury.) Prior to the development of a treatment with liver extracts in 1926 this condition was fatal.
Quote from: cyrus buelton on April 13, 2009, 02:39:21 PM
Eating that much fish really isn't very healthy.
Heavy metals in the water (i.e. mercury)
Depends on which fish you eat. Not all have heavy metal problems.
Quote from: cyrus buelton on April 13, 2009, 02:39:21 PM
Eating that much fish really isn't very healthy.
Heavy metals in the water (i.e. mercury)
Quote from: Triple J on April 13, 2009, 03:04:06 PM
Depends on which fish you eat. Not all have heavy metal problems.
http://ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=21888.msg391443#msg391443 (http://ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=21888.msg391443#msg391443)
I would just as well assume that all of them have toxin problems, but that it won't necessarily translate to health problems for you. But you never know what trace elements may be contributing to in the long run for your particular physiology. Like I said, everyone is different.
Hell, the stuff they find in cattle and swine is probably worse. :P
With regards to iron:
It is certainly possible to get enough iron in a vegan diet; it's a bit harder in a lacto-ovo diet, as dairy products are low in iron and furthermore inhibit iron absorption. It is also important to make sure you get enough vitamin C with the iron, as it helps iron absorption, and avoid consuming things with your iron such as tea/coffee or oxalate-rich foods (including spinach), as they inhibit iron absorption. Rich vegetarian sources of iron include leafy green vegetables (broccoli, kale, collard greens), legumes such as lentils, soybeans, black beans, garbanzo beans, soy-based products such as tofu and soymilk, blackstrap molasses, and quinoa.
B12:
The vast majority of B12-deficient people are not vegan/vegetarian and are not due to inadequate intake; it is generally due to inadequate absorption, which gets worse as people age. In some people it is worse and is known as pernicious anemia, and may require injections of B12 (whether you are an omnivore or vegan). It is important to make sure you have a regular source of B12; this could be from a supplement, fortified soymilk, nutritional yeast, fortified breakfast cereals, dairy products, eggs, or meat. B12 is produced by bacteria that usually live in the ground; the reason that animal products contain B12 is because they consume bits of soil or manure along with their food. Vegetarian sources of B12 are made from cultures of bacteria producing B12.
BTW, omnivorous diets are prone to their own deficiencies, which is why things like milk, cereals, and flour are typically supplemented with various vitamins and minerals, and why multivitamins are so popular.
For anyone who thinks that a vegetarian/vegan diet is insufficient and unhealthy, here is a list of some vegan/vegetarian athletes:
http://www.veganathlete.com/vegan_vegetarian_athletes.php (http://www.veganathlete.com/vegan_vegetarian_athletes.php)
If anyone wants recommendations for books on vegetarian/vegan cooking and/or nutrition, feel free to PM me.
Quote from: somegirl on April 13, 2009, 03:19:26 PM
B12:
The vast majority of B12-deficient people are not vegan/vegetarian and are not due to inadequate intake; it is generally due to inadequate absorption, which gets worse as people age. In some people it is worse and is known as pernicious anemia, and may require injections of B12 (whether you are an omnivore or vegan). It is important to make sure you have a regular source of B12; this could be from a supplement, fortified soymilk, nutritional yeast, fortified breakfast cereals, dairy products, eggs, or meat. B12 is produced by bacteria that usually live in the ground; the reason that animal products contain B12 is because they consume bits of soil or manure along with their food. Vegetarian sources of B12 are made from cultures of bacteria producing B12.
BTW, omnivorous diets are prone to their own deficiencies, which is why things like milk, cereals, and flour are typically supplemented with various vitamins and minerals, and why multivitamins are so popular.
For anyone who thinks that a vegetarian/vegan diet is insufficient and unhealthy, here is a list of some vegan/vegetarian athletes:
http://www.veganathlete.com/vegan_vegetarian_athletes.php (http://www.veganathlete.com/vegan_vegetarian_athletes.php)
If anyone wants recommendations for books on vegetarian/vegan cooking and/or nutrition, feel free to PM me.
[thumbsup]
From the article I posted earlier:
The human gut also contains B12-synthesizing bacteria, living from the mouth to the anus. The presence of these bacteria is an important reason that disease from vitamin B12 deficiency occurs very rarely in people, even those who have been strict vegetarians (vegans) all of their lives. The colon contains the greatest number of bacteria (4 trillion/cc of feces), and here most of our intestinal B12 is produced. However, because B12 is absorbed in the ileum, which lies upstream of the colon, this plentiful source of B12 is not immediately available for absorptionâ€"unless people eat feces (don't gasp). Feces of cows, chickens, sheep and people contain large amounts of active B12. Until recently most people lived in close contact with their farm animals, and all people consumed B12 left as residues by bacteria living on their un-sanitized vegetable foods.
Quote from: cyrus buelton on April 13, 2009, 02:39:21 PM
Eating that much fish really isn't very healthy.
Heavy metals in the water (i.e. mercury)
I've often wondered about this claim. Since Japanese eat about 20 times the fish that Americans do, you'd expect to see more mercury-related diseases in Japan. However, the incidence of mercury poisoning and birth defects is no higher than in the USA.
Quote from: Triple J on April 13, 2009, 03:04:06 PM
Depends on which fish you eat. Not all have heavy metal problems.
What's funny to me is how the FDA tells pregnant women not to eat fish, but Japanese women (while pregnant) consume no less fish (and raw), but the incidence of disease and birth defect related to heavy metals are the same as in the USA.
Quote from: wark on April 13, 2009, 02:54:46 PM
Keep in mind that your [possibly diseased] physiology does not represent mankind as a wholeâ€"I know mine doesn't!
Think of George Burns w/r/t smoking. Just because he lived to be 100 smoking multiple cigars each day doesn't mean it won't kill you prematurely. Everyone is different.
Regarding B12 (which is synthesized in human intestines), here is an interesting one:
http://www.drmcdougall.com/misc/2007nl/nov/b12.htm (http://www.drmcdougall.com/misc/2007nl/nov/b12.htm)
McDougall's beliefs are not mainstream and while his nutritional recommendations may work for some people, they will not work for everyone.
For instance, it is well known that Eskimo traditionally survive on a diet consisting of whale and seal meat and fat -- about 50-70%. However, the incidence of cardio and circulatory problems related to a high-fat diet are non existent among Eskimo who keep a traditional diet.
For sure. There really are so many variables to consider...
Quote from: ducatizzzz on April 13, 2009, 09:39:25 AM
a completely vegetarian lifestyle isn't appropriate for humans. long-term vegetarians always show muscle degradation, common b12 deficiency and deviant sexuality.
i was 100% vegetarian for over 20 years and it took its toll on me.
So.....you were a sexual deviant?
:-*
My wife has been vegetarian for 22 years, and I've been for 19 (not 16) years. Next year I don't think I'll have time to post if Tizzz is at all accurate! [evil]
Quote from: littlewiseass on April 13, 2009, 09:22:14 PM
So.....you were a sexual deviant?
:-*
well, to be honest, i was before being veg, but i thru that in just to see if ppl were payin' attention...
Quote from: Sinister on April 13, 2009, 01:39:23 PM
1/2 of 1 cow.
Everyone knows meat grows in those styrofoam trays covered in plastic wrap. ;)
Quote from: cyrus buelton on April 13, 2009, 11:36:24 AM
I really don't think I need to throw down a 16oz NY Strip every sunday night.
that's way too much
i would hate to be paying your toilet paper bills.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20090421/hl_nm/us_cancer_pancreatic_meat_1 (http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20090421/hl_nm/us_cancer_pancreatic_meat_1) for what it's worth (didn't deserve its own thread). [bacon]
Quote from: wark on April 22, 2009, 12:22:22 PM
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20090421/hl_nm/us_cancer_pancreatic_meat_1 (http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20090421/hl_nm/us_cancer_pancreatic_meat_1) for what it's worth (didn't deserve its own thread). [bacon]
All that study supports is what I've been saying for years: steak is better rare.
I love how meat is the devil, in so many of these "studies."
Quote from: Sinister on April 22, 2009, 12:38:20 PM
All that study supports is what I've been saying for years: steak is better rare.
I love how meat is the devil, in so many of these "studies."
Maybe so (and I definitely agree that steak is better rare). Notwithstanding, it says "those with the highest intake of very well-done meat had a 70 percent higher risk for pancreatic cancer over those with the lowest consumption." That doesn't imply that the people with the 70 percent lower risk ate just as much rarer meat to make up for it...
Quote from: wark on April 22, 2009, 07:35:34 PM
Maybe so (and I definitely agree that steak is better rare). Notwithstanding, it says "those with the highest intake of very well-done meat had a 70 percent higher risk for pancreatic cancer over those with the lowest consumption." That doesn't imply that the people with the 70 percent lower risk ate just as much rarer meat to make up for it...
Right, but it seems like there are other factors which would come into play. I guess you would have to read the whole study to understand how they corrected for such factors.
Quote from: wark on April 22, 2009, 07:35:34 PM
Maybe so (and I definitely agree that steak is better rare). Notwithstanding, it says "those with the highest intake of very well-done meat had a 70 percent higher risk for pancreatic cancer over those with the lowest consumption." That doesn't imply that the people with the 70 percent lower risk ate just as much rarer meat to make up for it...
you are correct, and this is a flaw in the study, since the cooking style confounds the results.. is the increase due to cooking or is it due to the meat itself?
if it is due to the cooking style itself, then the comments made that "meat causes higher pancreatic cancer" are false and worthless.
it also doesn't differentiate between charcoal or gas. I would think anything that uses an accelerant would be worse (quick lighting charcoal that's been infused with lighter).
does the study use a vegetarian control group that grills all their foods? That way it takes the cooking method out of the equation.
Quote from: lauramonster on April 23, 2009, 12:52:34 PM
it also doesn't differentiate between charcoal or gas. I would think anything that uses an accelerant would be worse (quick lighting charcoal that's been infused with lighter).
does the study use a vegetarian control group that grills all their foods? That way it takes the cooking method out of the equation.
very good observation.
at least two major confounds in this study.
Quote from: lauramonster on April 23, 2009, 12:52:34 PM
it also doesn't differentiate between charcoal or gas. I would think anything that uses an accelerant would be worse (quick lighting charcoal that's been infused with lighter).
does the study use a vegetarian control group that grills all their foods? That way it takes the cooking method out of the equation.
Are you insinuating charcoal lighter fluid is not good for you? Next you will question the health risk of whatever they use to bind the charcoal dust together to make briquettes ;D I use real charcoal, not briquettes and don't use lighter fluid.
Another question is what are the real numbers? Just making up numbers here, but if the norm for pancreatic cancer is 1 for every 100, 000 people and the charred meat group statistic is 1.7 for every 100, 000 people is the 70% increase in risk meaningful or even realistic? I doubt. Now, change that to the norm being 1,000 for every 100,000 people and the charred meat group statistic is 1700 for every 100,000 people the 70% increase in risk is now reason for concern.