I know Suzuki has been making Monster knock-offs for years, but never knew Honda was in the buisness as well.
http://www.motorcycledaily.com/15april09_honda_vtr250.htm (http://www.motorcycledaily.com/15april09_honda_vtr250.htm)
Just shameful.
They've had the 599 and 919 for awhile, which are naked bikes that I suppose you could call "monster knock-offs" but this is the first one I've seen with a trellis type frame. Interesting...
Looks like a great beginner bike. Too bad we can't get it here in the states :(
With some mods....I'd ride it [moto]
Not a bad looking bike
Reminds me of the joke by Cat Williams.
"It don't look like a Bently, it look like a Chrysler 300!"
Id rather be seen on that as opposed to being seen on a 696.
Quote from: TiAvenger on April 16, 2009, 12:08:02 PM
Id rather be seen on that as opposed to being seen on a 696.
ouch
i like everything but the forks.
the VTR has been around for a while... nothing new.. this is an upgraded design.. but its still a 250...
other than the trellis frame, it looks very similar to the CB lineup... IMO...
Quote from: TiAvenger on April 16, 2009, 12:08:02 PM
Id rather be seen on that as opposed to being seen on a 696.
ok let me get this straight.. you'd rather be on a 29hp 250cc monster 696 lookalike that weighs more than the 696, has the exact same frame configuration-trellis with aluminum subframe, single 292mm front brakes (still weighing more than the 696), square CHROME mirrors, two-tone paint scheme with what looks like an unchoppable FATASS rear end, most likely a cable clutch, non-radial front brake, giant radiator sticking out.... should i go on what is wrong with this bike? oh yeah... IT'S NOT A DUCATI
hmmm there's a thread here about someone like the plastic faired Buell. i think someone told him to see a doctor...
Quote from: Raux on April 16, 2009, 12:37:54 PM
ok let me get this straight.. you'd rather be on a 29hp 250cc monster 696 lookalike that weighs more than the 696, has the exact same frame configuration-trellis with aluminum subframe, single 292mm front brakes (still weighing more than the 696), square CHROME mirrors, two-tone paint scheme with what looks like an unchoppable FATASS rear end, most likely a cable clutch, non-radial front brake, giant radiator sticking out.... should i go on what is wrong with this bike? oh yeah... IT'S NOT A DUCATI
hmmm there's a thread here about someone like the plastic faired Buell. i think someone told him to see a doctor...
Opinions and ass holes or something like that... Calm down.
Quote from: Raux on April 16, 2009, 12:37:54 PM
ok let me get this straight.. you'd rather be on a 29hp 250cc monster 696 lookalike that weighs more than the 696, has the exact same frame configuration-trellis with aluminum subframe, single 292mm front brakes (still weighing more than the 696), square CHROME mirrors, two-tone paint scheme with what looks like an unchoppable FATASS rear end, most likely a cable clutch, non-radial front brake, giant radiator sticking out.... should i go on what is wrong with this bike? oh yeah... IT'S NOT A DUCATI
hmmm there's a thread here about someone like the plastic faired Buell. i think someone told him to see a doctor...
In short,
Yes.
It's an economical mass produced Japanese naked bike. It has an excuse to be ugly.
The 696 on the other hand, doesn't.
It is still better looking btw.
Quote from: minnesotamonster on April 16, 2009, 12:40:03 PM
Opinions and ass holes or something like that... Calm down.
It's fine, I expect a certain amount of ire from 696 owners. I'd be pissed too.
OK, taking a break from that discussion.... I liked the artical and how in the very first sentence they start in on how Europe gets all the cool bikes and we won't be seeing this bike on this side of the pond.... Really?
<rant> There is a good reason we won't see it. No one would by it. I remember when 750cc was a middle weight machine. The 1000cc bikes now fill that gap. They don't even make cruises under 1000cc anymore except the 883 and everyone knows that is a "girls" bike. The only reason these small bikes sell in Europe is because of moto licensing laws that require new riders to spend a certain amount of time on small or restricted machines and graduate up to larger more powerful bikes. </rant>
Sorry I just get bored of journalist whining about that crap when they already should know the reasons.
I'm not sure why you knock a cable clutch...?
Mirrors can be replaced. They need to be replaced on the Classic Monsters, the new Monsters, and well, every Ducati that's been built. The rear looks fine to me. The seat and upright riding position looks super comfy.
My Monster has the original race derived front brakes. They aren't radial either. Bet you can't feel much a difference between the radial mounting and traditional mounts.
Giant Radiator? have you seen an S4R?
Two tone paint scheme? What would be worse? Three Color? What's the italian name for that... tricolore?
There's nothing "wrong" with this bike. Not its displacement, not its budget-minded decisions to meet a price-point, not its beautiful round headlight, nothing.
I have to disagree with you on that one. Ninja 250s sell over here really well. I don't see how a bike like this wouldn't be able to sell.
Quote from: Scottish on April 16, 2009, 12:54:36 PM
OK, taking a break from that discussion.... I liked the artical and how in the very first sentence they start in on how Europe gets all the cool bikes and we won't be seeing this bike on this side of the pond.... Really?
<rant> There is a good reason we won't see it. No one would by it. I remember when 750cc was a middle weight machine. The 1000cc bikes now fill that gap. They don't even make cruises under 1000cc anymore except the 883 and everyone knows that is a "girls" bike. The only reason these small bikes sell in Europe is because of moto licensing laws that require new riders to spend a certain amount of time on small or restricted machines and graduate up to larger more powerful bikes. </rant>
Sorry I just get bored of journalist whining about that crap when they already should know the reasons.
Problem is, I'd love to buy one of these to put around on. It'd still be fun, a GREAT learner bike, and like the Ninja 250, we'd likely see some asshole on one of these passing people on 1098's and GSXR-1000's on the track because he's a damn good rider and isn't all that concerned with its lack of cutting-edge technology...
I hate to be argumentative, but did you try to buy a ninja 250 last year? I was put on a 6 month waiting list, and still haven't received a call. The demand is here, there just are not any low priced, good looking starter bikes sans the kawa. If they brought that here with a price tag of 3-4.5 k, I would buy it in a heartbeat.
Same here. And I believe Honda has discontinued the Nighthawk, have they not? That used to come in "small" as a flavor.
Quote from: TiAvenger on April 16, 2009, 12:08:02 PM
Id rather be seen on that as opposed to being seen on a 696.
Kind of a +1
In my opinion Ducati forfeited or put up for grabs the Classic Monster design with the new 696 and M1100 - so Honda was smart and took it, and made a nice looking bike.
mitt
Quote from: mitt on April 16, 2009, 01:07:45 PM
Kind of a +1
In my opinion Ducati forfeited or put up for grabs the Classic Monster design with the new 696 and M1100 - so Honda was smart and took it, and made a nice looking bike.
mitt
Agreed. Ducati doesn't have any claim on that look anymore.
Quote from: TiAvenger on April 16, 2009, 12:58:47 PM
I hate to be argumentative, but did you try to buy a ninja 250 last year? I was put on a 6 month waiting list, and still haven't received a call.
There is one collecting dust at the dealers right now.
alright i give. NOT comparing this to the 696.
i think it's overweight. i would like to see a 250cc bike come in under 300 lbs.
Quote from: mitt on April 16, 2009, 01:07:45 PM
Kind of a +1
In my opinion Ducati forfeited or put up for grabs the Classic Monster design with the new 696 and M1100 - so Honda was smart and took it, and made a nice looking bike.
mitt
That's the worst part. They (Ducati) have proven that they can build a great handling, great new motor, lighter air cooled monster. But in doing so, they changed the aesthetics.
They fixed everything that was wrong, only to screw up what was right.
If you like the 696 design, by all means keep enjoying it. I was drawn to monsters by their design, when it left, so did I (for monsters anyway.)
I'd like to double +1 on Mitt's comment.
The new fangled headlight designs on the Ducati's look like Aprilia's. Changing the "monster" to something else, and introducing another bike, Streetfighter, is a confounding business move. Both have the futuristic angular headlight looks, the Streetfighter much more so.
Starting to look like Tuono's and Shivers.
Quote from: duclvr on April 16, 2009, 01:13:25 PM
There is one collecting dust at my dealers right now.
Was it an '07 & older, or an '08? What part of the country are you in?!? I was put on the wait-list too... Found one dealership who was putting a $500 premium on their only green one available for 3-months. I said: [roll] and walked out.
My $.02 on the Honda: Bring it on. There need to be cool, friendly, low-powered intro bikes as options in this country and the more the merrier. I would own the bike pictured if it were available in the states. I'd chop the tail, do some low-ish bars and just enjoy myself on some the of the goat-trail roads around here.
Quote from: Raux on April 16, 2009, 01:14:47 PM
alright i give. NOT comparing this to the 696.
i think it's overweight. i would like to see a 250cc bike come in under 300 lbs.
You do realize that's wet weight right?
Dry its probably around the 300 mark
Looks pretty good. The rims look a lot nicer than the standard 3-spoke Duc rims.
Honda already makes an almost exact replica of the Monster. When I was in Melbourne last summer they were all over the place. I have no idea of the engine size...maybe some of the Aussie members will chime in.
I'd still take a 696 over it...actually an 1100. But then again, I don't need or want a beginners bike.
Quote from: Duck-Stew on April 16, 2009, 01:20:30 PM
Was it an '07 & older, or an '08? What part of the country are you in?!? I was put on the wait-list too... Found one dealership who was putting a $500 premium on their only green one available for 3-months. I said: [roll] and walked out.
Don't know what they were charging it was for sale when I bought my 696.
i do like the 696's i've seen with the original round headlight put on them. starts going back to the original look. i also like the polished rear subframe that was on the Indy 696. made it flow more with the bike. still waiting for a nice 'light' looking rear set WITH passenger pegs of course in black. the one thing about the new monster is its modularity. changing even the tail on the old monsters required hacksaws. imagine a totally new 'tubular' monoposto rear subframe for the 1100!!! there are sooo many possibilities. but even being a 696 owner, i still loved my original 99 monster 900 city. to me, both ducati, both beautiful in their own way, and two different generations of monsters.
anyway... back to the monster rip offs, there have always been companies trying to grab ahold of ducati success by stealing their designs.
but that honda is NOT like the original monster frame. from what i can see it has a subframe configuration also. and yes now i see the wet weight.
geez.. i'm going to bed. try not to beat up on other ducati bikes ok [thumbsup]
hell a 09 ninja 250 is 374 lbs. :o
The last generation supersports are ugly too [cheeky] [laugh]
That thing looks more like a monster than any bike I've seen (other than a monster, of course). What a cool starter bike. [thumbsup]
Having owned a VTR250, all I can say is they are a superb bike for the Money and if (like I was at the time) on a restricted license or a bit short on $$$ this was the nearest thing I could get that looked and sounded (remotely) like a monster.
I owned my VTR250 for 2 years, I didn't own a car, so I commuted, toured, and thrashed this thing and it just kept on going, never broke down, started every time, only sipped at the fuel, had a lot of torque for a 250.
I have owned about 4 different 250's over a period of 10 years and the VTR was the best of the lot.
And having owned a GPX250 and then test riding a Kawasaki 250 Ninja, All I can say is they are gutless wonders, very little low down Torque, and if your not revving the ring out of them, you really are going no where.
The Kawasaki Ninja 250 is just the old GPX250 with new clothes (Fairings)
and to be honest the Ninja 250 reminds me of the old saying,
There is only so much you can polish a turd, after all it's still only a piece of shit! But you can roll it in Glitter!
<butts in>
i can picture stew on a ninja 250....but TiAv...you're a big fella.
that image makes me giggle. [cheeky]
here's an old 'monster-copy'
(http://www.motorcyclespecs.co.za/Gallery/Laverda%20650%20Lynx%20%202.jpg)
Quote from: JEFF_H on April 16, 2009, 02:06:14 PM
<butts in>
i can picture stew on a ninja 250....but TiAv...you're a big fella.
that image makes me giggle. [cheeky]
(http://cache.gettyimages.com/xc/3382122.jpg?v=1&c=ViewImages&k=2&d=2C59C5F2747E9F17C088614ABEAF4B71A55A1E4F32AD3138)
i also think it looks more like a monster than the 696....
Quote from: ato memphis on April 16, 2009, 01:01:59 PM
Same here. And I believe Honda has discontinued the Nighthawk, have they not? That used to come in "small" as a flavor.
hmm i happen to have a 250 nighthawk sitting in my garage...
Ok guys, excluding the lil Ninja which looks just like it's bigger brothers to the untrained(read beginners) eye. I think you see my point. The Honda Nighthawk 250 discontinued?? Funny that, how often are designs discontinued that move off the show room floor? What I'm saying is that not even beginners WANT to start that small, especially in our bigger is better US market. Have you watched the direction cruisers like the M109, VTX, Triumph have been going? Honda doesn't even sell the 750 Shadow anymore cause a 900cc is considered petite. Same with sport bikes, ZX-14, Busa, ZX-12 etc, if it can't melt a rear tire it's considered something to sneer at. Who was it that said they's like one to put-put around on? I don't know about you but a lot of people are clamped down on spending right now. The idea of spending 3-4k for a put around town bike? Not in my budget right now. My bike has to be able to do daily duty, weekend blast, and some occasional touring even. If I was gonna get something to put around on I can pick up old 125-250cc '70 enduros all day long off Craigslist for under $600. Now those were some great bikes for putting on.
The point is there isn't enough of a market here to make it worth getting them here, if there was there would be more than 3 models on the market. I think a big part of why there is a market for them in Europe is because there has been an artificial demand created by govt. licensing regs. Granted the consumers do the best with what they have there and make it fun, but would they if they didn't have to?
Quote from: TiAvenger on April 16, 2009, 01:34:36 PM
The last generation supersports are ugly too [cheeky] [laugh]
I know. They are hideous.
(http://www.motorcyclespecs.co.za/Gallery/Ducati%20Supermono%2093.jpg)
Oh wait, that's not it. I always get those two mixed up.
(http://www.bikez.com/pictures/ducati/2003/20287_0_1_2_supersport%20800_Image%20credits%20-%20The%20respective%20copyright%20holder%20or%20manufacturer.jpg)
The one with the functional headlight is the ugly one. Did I get that right?
[moto] weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
Quote from: silentbob on April 16, 2009, 03:23:03 PM
I know. They are hideous.
[laugh] [thumbsup]
I never noticed before that the subframe of the Supermono isn't a trellis!! :o
The only part of the newer SS I don't like is the passenger seat. It would have looked better with a cowl.
Quote from: Triple J on April 16, 2009, 03:45:18 PM
[laugh] [thumbsup]
I never noticed before that the subframe of the Supermono isn't a trellis!! :o
The only part of the newer SS I don't like is the passenger seat. It would have looked better with a cowl.
Carbon fiber ;D
I agree about the new ss passenger seat.... thats why I bought one with it cut off [laugh]
I don't disagree with you, but you might think differently if you ever saw a COMPLETE newb trying to learn to ride on a 120hp R6. Scary...
Quote from: Scottish on April 16, 2009, 03:07:25 PM
Ok guys, excluding the lil Ninja which looks just like it's bigger brothers to the untrained(read beginners) eye. I think you see my point. The Honda Nighthawk 250 discontinued?? Funny that, how often are designs discontinued that move off the show room floor? What I'm saying is that not even beginners WANT to start that small, especially in our bigger is better US market. Have you watched the direction cruisers like the M109, VTX, Triumph have been going? Honda doesn't even sell the 750 Shadow anymore cause a 900cc is considered petite. Same with sport bikes, ZX-14, Busa, ZX-12 etc, if it can't melt a rear tire it's considered something to sneer at. Who was it that said they's like one to put-put around on? I don't know about you but a lot of people are clamped down on spending right now. The idea of spending 3-4k for a put around town bike? Not in my budget right now. My bike has to be able to do daily duty, weekend blast, and some occasional touring even. If I was gonna get something to put around on I can pick up old 125-250cc '70 enduros all day long off Craigslist for under $600. Now those were some great bikes for putting on.
The point is there isn't enough of a market here to make it worth getting them here, if there was there would be more than 3 models on the market. I think a big part of why there is a market for them in Europe is because there has been an artificial demand created by govt. licensing regs. Granted the consumers do the best with what they have there and make it fun, but would they if they didn't have to?
I think it looks great. Yes, it's a clear knockoff of the 'old' Monster, but I'm ok with that. 8) Despite the rare Ninja 250 that languishes on a showroom floor, Kawasaki has been cleaning up in the entry-level market with the baby Ninja. This VTR250 would be a stellar first bike for a lot of people, and Honda will miss a big market opportunity if they don't/can't offer it here.
(http://www.motorcycledaily.com/041509top.jpg)
Honda has a couple of other great bikes that they don't offer here in the States. In particular, I'd love to see the TransAlp sold here again. [bow_down]
Quote from: The banished on April 16, 2009, 01:15:08 PMI was drawn to monsters by their design, when it left, so did I
I was drawn back to Ducati by the 696, when it appeared I returned to the brand.
Quote from: The banished on April 16, 2009, 12:43:51 PM
It's fine, I expect a certain amount of ire from 696 owners. I'd be pissed too.
Pissed? Not at all. You have an opinion, I have a bike that pleases me greatly [thumbsup].
Nice job Honda!
I have to agree with many others in this thread who feel that Honda picked up the great Monster look that Ducati left out on the curb. A little more displacement and they would sell like crazy in the U.S. (at the proper price point)
Nothing against 696 owners, if you are happy with it...more power to ya, but for me the new Ducati 696 is about as much a Monster as a the new Dodge Charger is a Dodge Charger. [roll] I just don't understand why they felt the need to "futurize" it that much....
Quote from: JEFF_H on April 16, 2009, 02:06:14 PM
here's an old 'monster-copy'
(http://www.motorcyclespecs.co.za/Gallery/Laverda%20650%20Lynx%20%202.jpg)
I dig the look of the Laverda Lynx. When did this bike get produced? Was it ever sold in the U.S.? I especially like the swingarm from this angle.
(http://www.motorcycledaily.com/lynx1.jpg)
Quote from: Travman on April 16, 2009, 05:49:11 PM
I dig the look of the Laverda Lynx. When did this bike get produced? Was it ever sold in the U.S.? I especially like the swingarm from this angle.
(http://www.motorcycledaily.com/lynx1.jpg)
Is it just me or does that Laverda have a Suzuki engine??
I really like that little Honda and I hate H*ndas. lol For a small bike, that little v-twin really adds some class.
Quote from: Duck-Stew on April 16, 2009, 04:58:44 PM
I don't disagree with you, but you might think differently if you ever saw a COMPLETE newb trying to learn to ride on a 120hp R6. Scary...
Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that the typical jump right on a 600 super-sport is a good idea. But it's pretty typically American. I've tried like crazy to talk two different friends into a sub 600 class bike. Niether of them did, one (my brother-in-law) has no business on even a pocketbike. He promptly 12 o'clocked his zx-6r. My other friend I have faith in and so far his R6 is still alive.
I don't think it's a bad idea at all but without legislation like Europe most young men aren't that good at self-policing. I wasn't. ;)
I like Honda's CB1100F, too. There is a little bit of a family resemblance between the CB1100F and the VTR250. I could envision these bikes parked next to each other on a US Honda showroom floor:
(http://www.motorcyclenews.com/upload/218656/images/Honda-CB1100F.jpg)
(http://www.motorcycledaily.com/041509top.jpg)
This one's still my fave, tho:
(http://world.honda.com/news/2007/2070920Motorcycle-Exhibition-Tokyo-Motor-Show-2007/photo/images/07.jpg)
Somebody with photochop skills needs to chop the tail, remove the mirrors paint it Dark etc......
Quote from: bluemoco on April 16, 2009, 09:56:57 PM
There is a little bit of a family resemblance between the CB1100F and the VTR250.
(http://www.motorcyclenews.com/upload/218656/images/Honda-CB1100F.jpg)
(http://www.motorcycledaily.com/041509top.jpg)
This one's still my fave, tho:
(http://world.honda.com/news/2007/2070920Motorcycle-Exhibition-Tokyo-Motor-Show-2007/photo/images/07.jpg)
Yup, I agree there is a family resemblance. Its that "
New for 1986" look.... [laugh]
A knock off stays a knock off I will happily keep my 696, At least there are some opinions of it on here ;D
At least some designers have not been bitten by the Manga bug... [thumbsup]
Nice and classic bike...250 is perfect for learners...and Ninjas suck balls in any size.
I was seriously looking at one until I pitched in the extra $$$ to buy a 620.
Saw a young chick on one at the track the other day, cheese cutter tyre on the rear.
And she was giving it to the litre bikes, it took them 4-5 laps out of about 7 to leave her behind.
Even then it was only by a corner or so. Mighty impressed. [thumbsup]
(http://i320.photobucket.com/albums/nn327/supakpow/3120856904a8325331135l.jpg)
That is all!
;D
actually, I like all of the above bikes. especially the CB1100R. [evil]
Quote from: supakpow2 on April 17, 2009, 02:59:16 AM
(http://i320.photobucket.com/albums/nn327/supakpow/3120856904a8325331135l.jpg)
That is all!
;D
[thumbsup] [thumbsup] [thumbsup]
actually, I like all of the above bikes. especially the CB1100R. [evil]
[thumbsup] [thumbsup]
Quote from: ungeheuer on April 16, 2009, 06:28:25 PM
Is it just me or does that Laverda have a Suzuki engine??
It sure looks like the engine in my buddies SV650. Bolt for bolt.
i always hate machines that are made to "look like" other models. I prefer cars, truck, and bikes that look like they started out exactly how they really did.... as a block of clay.
that being said, like others here ill ride ANYTHING, and love it. i just love my duc more.
p.s. i went to a ducati demo day (every thursday kissel motorsports if you are near central PA) and a guy rode up on a Laverda, never seen one before. im curious to read more about them
Being relatively new to motorcycling and completely new to Ducati, the 696 is what drew me in. The first time I saw it I fell in love and knew I had to have one. [bow_down] This new Honda seems like it would be a great beginner bike, but I don't really see the resemblance to the older style monsters that everybody else is seeing. It does have a partial trellis frame, but so do lots of bikes. Otherwise it looks like a standard motorcycle to me. And not something I would consider buying even if it did become available in the States.
/pointless rant
Maybe this is "newb" of me, but I don't see the reason for the hostility against Ducati for trying to improve design and moving along with the times. And I really don't see the reason for the resentment of current 696/1100 owners for buying one. If you don't like the 696/1100 don't buy it. There are plenty of options to choose from both in the Ducati lineup and from other manufacturers that might make you happy.
/pointless rant
Quote from: MonsterMI on April 17, 2009, 06:32:52 AM
/pointless rant
Maybe this is "newb" of me, but I don't see the reason for the hostility against Ducati for trying to improve design and moving along with the times. And I really don't see the reason for the resentment of current 696/1100 owners for buying one. If you don't like the 696/1100 don't buy it. There are plenty of options to choose from both in the Ducati lineup and from other manufacturers that might make you happy.
/pointless rant
I don't think anybody "resents" any of the owners for buying the 696/1100. They just don't like the design since it was such a drastic change from the original concept, which falls back on the designers part, not the new buyers. Like you said, if you don't like it, don't buy it. I don't think there is any resenting of current 696/1100 owners going on tho.
Quote from: MonsterMI on April 17, 2009, 06:32:52 AM
It does have a partial trellis frame, but so do lots of bikes.
really?!?1 thats news to me.
and as for people who dont like the new models.... every brand or category will have those hardcore who think that change is bad, and the old ways are best. i myself enjoy both old and new.
Quote from: redial on April 17, 2009, 06:55:07 AM
really?!?1 thats news to me.
Just a short, quick list I whipped up through some googling:
Most modern Ducatis
Suzuki SV650
Kawasaki Versys
Bimota DB6 Delirio
Aprilia Shiver, Mana
KTM 990 SMT
BMW F650GS
Quote from: ungeheuer on April 16, 2009, 06:28:25 PM
Is it just me or does that Laverda have a Suzuki engine??
I could be mistaken , but as I recall, some of the Laverda models used borrowed engines similar to the way Bimota did. They would use their frame and body with someone else's motor.
I think calling the Bimota DB6 really "distinct" from a Ducat is misleading. While its not a direct translation I do not believe, but I have always read the DB as "Ducati Based", just like the SB is the Suzuki Based bikes they make.
Quote from: ato memphis on April 17, 2009, 07:24:29 AM
I think calling the Bimota DB6 really "distinct" from a Ducat is misleading. While its not a direct translation I do not believe, but I have always read the DB as "Ducati Based", just like the SB is the Suzuki Based bikes they make.
Not to get all Derby on you, but technically it stands for "Ducati-Bimota" or "Suzuki-Bimota"
Quote from: Drunken Monkey on April 17, 2009, 08:44:07 AM
Not to get all Derby on you, but technically it stands for "Ducati-Bimota" or "Suzuki-Bimota"
Cool bit of trivia there, I've read a lot on Bimota over the years and never have seen that before.... thanx.
QuoteThe only reason these small bikes sell in Europe is because of moto licensing laws that require new riders to spend a certain amount of time on small or restricted machines and graduate up to larger more powerful bikes.
This is what we need to do in the US, we will be better riders, it's another opportunity for dealers to sell more bikes and the Government to collect more fees, win win for all
Hadn't seen the B-for-Bimota before either, but I knew the first letter part. Like I said, it essentially means "ducati derived/based"-bimota
Quote from: The banished on April 16, 2009, 12:08:02 PM
Id rather be seen on that as opposed to being seen on a 696.
+1
Just to keep the New Monster vs Old Monster thoughts going...
Maybe Ducati needs to go all Coke on us, and offer a Monster Classic in their lineup. Modern engine and harware with the original styling.
Like others, I like the styling of my '06 more than the new bikes. But, there is definitely a market for the new design direction. And how many Monsters really stay "as designed" for their entire lives?
I could not agree more...
Either that or I'll join the Moto Morini board next year.
999/1100/696 for the shredder [puke]
Quote from: RBX QB on April 17, 2009, 10:35:47 AM
Maybe Ducati needs to go all Coke on us, and offer a Monster Classic in their lineup. Modern engine and harware with the original styling.
When the 696 was first shown, there was talk (hope?) of Ducati offering a version of the 'old' Monster in the SportClassic lineup.
Didn't this kinda happen with the 916/999/198? Ducati reclaimed a 916-ish style and now I hear they copied the Japanese with the 1098... whatever. If/when Ducati returns a classic Monster to the showroom I can hear it now... "Ducati ripped off Honda" Oh well what was old is new again.
i like the idea of the 'monster classic' in the lineup with 'sport classic'
SC GT
SC GT Touring
SC Sport
SC Monster
but i think they would have to rename it from Monster. ;D
Quote from: Raux on April 17, 2009, 11:02:04 AM
i like the idea of the 'monster classic' in the lineup with 'sport classic'
SC GT
SC GT Touring
SC Sport
SC Monster
but i think they would have to rename it from Monster. ;D
Ducati would probably wait several years before bringing it back so the faithful will have enough desire and their classic Monsters will be worn out. I just hope they don't mess it up by enlarging the tank or changing the look.
High end manufacturer has been the trend setter for all the copycats out there. From Rolls, to Benz, Bentley's, Ferrari's, Porsche, They start the trend and it trickles down to the mid and low brands.... nothing new about that...don't be afraid of a little copycat...if you know you are the original.
even designer hand bags have been bootlegged... Watches! you name it...Most of the trendsetter has been in Italy... so for a bike to look like a Classic Monster, best selling, iconic/timeless design for 14 years...
I love my classic... when Ducati brings back the Monster Classic... I will already have the "Classic"
I do believe you can't be innovative if you keep making classics, and not take risks, that's how we got here in the first place.
I think when they first came out with the Monster design, Ducati took a calculated risk... paid off big time...
OK, end of Rant, back to work.
[moto] [drink]
Quote from: AfroS4RS on April 17, 2009, 12:42:23 PM
High end manufacturer has been the trend setter for all the copycats out there. From Rolls, to Benz, Bentley's, Ferrari's, Porsche, They start the trend and it trickles down to the mid and low brands.... nothing new about that...don't be afraid of a little copycat...if you know you are the original.
even designer hand bags have been bootlegged... Watches! you name it...Most of the trendsetter has been in Italy... so for a bike to look like a Classic Monster, best selling, iconic/timeless design for 14 years...
I love my classic... when Ducati brings back the Monster Classic... I will already have the "Classic"
I do believe you can't be innovative if you keep making classics, and not take risks, that's how we got here in the first place.
I think when they first came out with the Monster design, Ducati took a calculated risk... paid off big time...
OK, end of Rant, back to work.
[moto] [drink]
That's not true ask Harley-Davidson. [roll] I don't like all the styling cues on the new Monster but I do think Ducati stayed true to the Monster design with the new bike. Besides what fun would it be to buy a Monster that didn't need some modding? The M1100s sits high on my list of possiblities for a next bike.
First thing you'll have to do is yank the new stock headlight and put on a beautiful round one.
Quote from: m1moto on April 17, 2009, 09:16:50 AM
This is what we need to do in the US, we will be better riders, it's another opportunity for dealers to sell more bikes and the Government to collect more fees, win win for all
What we do NOT need in the US is more regulation!! I hate all the regulations of what I can and can't do just because of idiots. America is supposed to be the land of the free where you can do what you want when you want as long as you are not harming others.
If some idiot wants to get a hyabusa for his first bike and proceed to kill himself more power to him. Thats one less moron on the road for me to worry about.
Sorry for the rant but I hate the way America has been going lately, this whole lets all hold hands and make sure the dregs of society live better then those of us whom work for a living mentality.
Quote from: jestor00 on April 17, 2009, 03:10:22 PM
What we do NOT need in the US is more regulation!! I hate all the regulations of what I can and can't do just because of idiots. America is supposed to be the land of the free where you can do what you want when you want as long as you are not harming others.
If some idiot wants to get a hyabusa for his first bike and proceed to kill himself more power to him. Thats one less moron on the road for me to worry about.
Sorry for the rant but I hate the way America has been going lately, this whole lets all hold hands and make sure the dregs of society live better then those of us whom work for a living mentality.
[thumbsup]
Quote from: jestor00 on April 17, 2009, 03:10:22 PM
What we do NOT need in the US is more regulation!! I hate all the regulations of what I can and can't do just because of idiots. America is supposed to be the land of the free where you can do what you want when you want as long as you are not harming others.
If some idiot wants to get a hyabusa for his first bike and proceed to kill himself more power to him. Thats one less moron on the road for me to worry about.
Sorry for the rant but I hate the way America has been going lately, this whole lets all hold hands and make sure the dregs of society live better then those of us whom work for a living mentality.
while I agree with most of this post, the example you provided is moot because said idiot that wants a hayabusa for his first bike is not only putting himself in danger when he rolls out onto public roads.
I personally think it'd be nice to have some Idiot Laws put into effect though, just to prevent extreme(ly idiotic) situations like this one from happening, as believe it or not, there are make the beast blah blah blah tards out there that DO make irrational purchases like this, and proceed to make the yadda yadda themselves up and other bystanders, all because they CAN, because there are no moto idiot laws 'cept the helmet law (at least in most areas [roll] )
haven't heard of many (any?) situations where the biker who crashed seriously injured others. Dented the backs of cars because he had "stoppie-fail"? Yes. Killed a mini-van filled with Under-6 soccer team, driven by a nun? No.
Quote from: ato memphis on April 17, 2009, 06:43:17 PM
haven't heard of many (any?) situations where the biker who crashed seriously injured others. Dented the backs of cars because he had "stoppie-fail"? Yes. Killed a mini-van filled with Under-6 soccer team, driven by a nun? No.
(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_SqhhJb_P3Kk/SY37c5k310I/AAAAAAAAE3E/3PgGcEzPoJ0/s400/motorcycle+inside+car+bottom.jpg)
Quote from: RBX QB on April 17, 2009, 10:35:47 AM
Just to keep the New Monster vs Old Monster thoughts going...
Maybe Ducati needs to go all Coke on us, and offer a Monster Classic in their lineup. Modern engine and harware with the original styling.
Like others, I like the styling of my '06 more than the new bikes. But, there is definitely a market for the new design direction. And how many Monsters really stay "as designed" for their entire lives?
but you cant buy "new coke" anymore...
and the pic of the bike welded into the side of the compact.
old but good!
Quote from: Raux on April 16, 2009, 01:31:03 PM
anyway... back to the monster rip offs, there have always been companies trying to grab ahold of ducati success by stealing their designs.
I'm pretty sure if Honda starting selling the same number of motos as Ducati, some people would be fired at Honda over it.
Honda sells a *lot* of bikes.
Quote from: The banished on April 16, 2009, 12:08:02 PM
Id rather be seen on that as opposed to being seen on a 696.
agreed
Quote from: littlewiseass on April 18, 2009, 08:41:07 AM
I'm pretty sure if Honda starting selling the same number of motos as Ducati, some people would be fired at Honda over it.
Honda sells a *lot* of bikes.
+1
the difference is only about 35,000 Ducs to Honda's 3 million?
If I was just learning to ride, I'd buy that Honda in a second over say a Ninja 250.
Quote from: Matty P on April 19, 2009, 05:34:31 PM
+1
the difference is only about 35,000 Ducs to Honda's 3 million?
If I was just learning to ride, I'd buy that Honda in a second over say a Ninja 250.
Honda sold 28,586 motorcycles in December of 2008. In contrast, Ducati's record month for sales was July of 08 with 1410 bikes sold...
Quote from: Matty P on April 19, 2009, 05:34:31 PM
If I was just learning to ride, I'd buy that Honda in a second over say a Ninja 250.
Agreed. It would be a great way to freshen up Honda's 250cc offerings here in the States. The Nighthhawk 250 and Rebel 250 are great, economical, stone-tool reliable bikes. However, they've not changed since the 80's. How boring is that? The Ninja 250 got a much needed update, Honda, it's time to catch up.
JM
The US wants to go green use less Gas (Oil), electric cars are still way too expensive for the masses. They need an initiative to promote Motorbikes...
more parking spaces, one space can accommodate 3- 4 bikes, more revenue for the city... example: San Francisco, not Boston.
Add incentive to owning a motorcycle, use the Stimulus for something really make an impact.
If 20% of the people in major cities have bikes, how much gas can we save...not to mention emission to stop global warming...
just saying...
Oh, sell more monster and compete with Honda.... if this happens, we will probably see 250 cc monsters..
I believe the Nighthawk has been discontinued. Can't find it on the website, anybody know differently?
Quote from: ato memphis on April 19, 2009, 08:10:38 PM
I believe the Nighthawk has been discontinued. Can't find it on the website, anybody know differently?
that sounds about right. seeing as how the rebel was nigh-identical, but still their baby 'cruiser' bike.
not much of a market for standards these days
VTR250s have been around for a decade now. Hardly news.
Exactly what I was going to say. They didn't just come in when the 'classic' went out.
I got in on this thread late, but here's my take:
1) I started on a Vespa 200. Yes, a Vespa. Because I knew anything bigger that a 250 was overkill for an inexperienced rider. I rode that thing everywhere, twisties to highways. I think that honda 250 would make a fantastic ride, not just for me 5 years ago but for me now.
2) I don't like the styling of the newer monsters. Just my opinion. I fell in love with the look of the original monster, and loved my '05 620. Sure, it wasn't an S*R, but it had that monster look and sound all the same.
3) The new 1100s just didn't do it for me. The ride was alright (though a bit hard on the jennies) and it certainly was fun, but every time I looked at it I wanted to see what I thought a monster should look like, and it wasn't it.
4) There is nothing wrong with progress. Hell, if I do go back to the Ducati Fold, it will probably be for a used S4R. If you like the new style, run with it. If not, there are plenty of good "old" monsters out there for you (and me)
When it came down to it, after riding both over and over again, I went with a Brutale over an M1100s. And alot of it had to do with staring at them side by side for hours. The ovalish headlight works on a Brutale. Not so much on a Monster. And with such a tough decision, even that small bit of "feel" was enough to tip the scales.