Ducati Monster Forum

This Akrapovic exhaust is a possibility for me, any insight to it would be greatly appreciated. Would I need a DP ECU or just a PCIII work? Good HP increase or anything compared to the 13% from Termi?  ???Sound? Not much on Youtube either.

To me it cleans up the rear, follows the lines of the Duc well.

I've seen/heard one in person.  It was a Ti can with a CF endcap and it looked GREAT!  It wasn't very loud, though...louder than stock for sure, but definitely not in the territory of unbaffled Termis/Arrows

is this the hand welded tit megaphone style?

DEFINITELY not ugly.

I was thinking this one, in TI. Can find a picture of it in Ti though, only the CF.
I will try to post a pic, not good at doing that either, HA!


<img src=“ http://www.akrapovic.com/typo3conf/ext/user_products/mod1/uploads/products/evolution_exhaust_system_for_the_ducati_monster_s4rs_2006_2008_s4r_2008_/4ff7f306cca0e736e7e6c7cbaefe351a.jpg (http://www.akrapovic.com/typo3conf/ext/user_products/mod1/uploads/products/evolution_exhaust_system_for_the_ducati_monster_s4rs_2006_2008_s4r_2008_/4ff7f306cca0e736e7e6c7cbaefe351a.jpg) ">

here is a link to the site: http://www.akrapovic.com/motorcycle-exhaust/products/ducati/model/monster-s4rs-2006/evolution-6/ (http://www.akrapovic.com/motorcycle-exhaust/products/ducati/model/monster-s4rs-2006/evolution-6/) 

here, I'll help you out

(http://www.akrapovic.com/typo3conf/ext/user_products/mod1/uploads/products/evolution_exhaust_system_for_the_ducati_monster_s4rs_2006_2008_s4r_2008_/4ff7f306cca0e736e7e6c7cbaefe351a.jpg)

Hey thanks.

Give a guy a fish fead him for a day, teach him to fish........  [beer]

I really like the first one......A Lot!!!! 

Is this what you were looking for?

(http://www.akrapovic.com/typo3conf/ext/user_products/mod1/uploads/products/slip_on_street_legal_exhaust_system_for_the_ducati_monster_s4rs_2006_2008_s4r_2008_/deb47d50ab4d05d962b338afd67aaa0f.jpg)

i heard ab Ak. on an 848 and i liked it alot sounded amasing

Good looking setup  [thumbsup]

I am building one of these for the 696....period.

Yeah it would be the first one, hexagonal shaped full system, but with the titanium shell like the second picture which is a slip/on street legal system. The cap would still be carbon fiber. I would need a PCIII, right? For max performance I would possibly need a DP ECU (I am guessing) or is that not really worth the $ to HP ratio. Which is a good chunk of change in the end $1700 for exhaust + $350 for PCIII already. If I were to get a DP ECU too, thats almost half of a 696! Exhaust system or food??  [bang]

But, as my Father in-law would say "You can always make more money, can't make more time." Then proceed to tell me buy what makes you happy, knowing the expensive purchase would tick of his daughter(my wife).  ;D 

Would I need more than a PCIII, something like that Pro Tune Remap Kit from Motowheels? Or? O2 sensor I am guessing stays intact with that exhaust?

PM Akrapovic tech support via their website.  Akrapovic claims to develop their exhausts on the bike (unlike others who just send shop drawings to China)....nobody here's gonna know as Akrapovic is not a common Ducati mod

True that OT, maybe I am breaking the mold. I have always been a little different, I like Saab and not BMW, Converse and not NIKE, Akrapovic not Termi or Arrow. I do like the performance gain on Termi, and not even about good or bad, just being different!

I did read on the site [coffee] that they design and work with stock set-up, perhaps not maximized, but I don't ride good enough to push the bike to new limits [moto]

Thanks everybody for you $.02.

....which suggests that you won't need to worry about modifying engine management maps with their system  [thumbsup]

Me likey that full system.

One of our number did the two into one Akro on an S4RS some time back and posted on the old board.  He used a DP ECU and got the same increase on the dyno that others were seeing with the Termi full kit as I recall. He did the open airbox too, of course.

I'll post a pic if I can find it at work.

LA

Excellent, thanks LA!

Don't you love working on non-work related stuff and getting paid for it? Makes my time and effort of going to work less obtrusive to my life. I am getting that exhaust, within two weeks, SHE WILL BE MINE, oh' yes SHE WILL BE MINE!

Perhaps that would give me a good goal. Axhaust now w/possibly the Fat Duc, then add a DP ECU or PCIII after my wife forgets about the Axhaust purchase.

That's a good idea. I didn't wait long enough. She still has not forgotten

Why can't they ever just "Live in the now?" Not only do they fight about stuff that is old, they dig it up just to fight about it again, like we didn't learn the first time. When are they gonna get it, we are not ever going to learn!  ;D

HA! Here is my new plan for funding obscene purchases, have my buddy put it on his credit card, then pay him back, chip away at it here and there, squirrel money away! Is that a winning plan or what? [clap]

Back to the Axhaust, thanks DMF'ers! It would be nice to see a dyno with a fuel management change, thanks LA for looking.

I really want to know about the full akrapovic evolution exhaust with a PCIII.  Can I put the full exhaust, put a PCIII and open the airbox and make it run like a termi kit???  I have heard it is even better but I am just not sure about it yet.  I am looking for about 130+rwhp on my S4rs.  Do you think these mods without a DP ECU and tricking the O2 sensor would work?

DucRulz i have a s4rs with a stubby termi but i've allway's liked the single high mount can so keep us posted with the mod.  [thumbsup]

Carlos you've just got to get a girl like Barb, she never worries about what i send on toy's  ;) ;)

 [coffee]

Yeah Carlos, and when you find that "girl like Barb" for yourself, See if she has a good looking sister for me too 8)

Will keep you post, should be in the mail by this coming Friday, my own way of celebrating Mexico's Labor Day!   [laugh]

I had been considering that system before I got the termis for the Duc.  Thing was that you still needed to get the DP ECU ( I believe) for any performance mods at the engine.  So, totalling up the AKrapovic system, then the DP ECU (alone) was way more than getting the termignonis with the ECU as a kit.  I know, six of one half dozen of the other.  I also wanted to see/hear one in person before dropping cashola like that.

Looks great though.  I agree, it cleans up the back end really nicely.

Same here, I liked the look of the akrapovic but with out the DP ECU it could be problematic. I guess if I ever get to actually hear one I could always try to sell my Termis  (I have heard that the stock ecu can be reflashed for about $300 which was not available when I bought my full system)

Since when do you need the DP ECU? If you're running the stock airbox it will run lean. If you have it opened, it will run waaaaaaay lean, but there are other options to buying the DP ECU.

I know there are a lot of threads about fuel mappings, DP ECU, stock ECU, PCIII, Lambda Sensor work-around devices, etc. I've seen the damage  running lean can do to a piston. Running even a little lean was not an option for me, in fact from the factory these bikes run too lean for my taste. Everyone is welcome to make there own decision. I was just stating why I didn't buy Akraprovic

+1  Looked great in the photos I was able to find
+1  Read an article about one on a kawa, said the workmanship was excellent
-1  Couldn't find one at any local shop to be able to look at one for an S4RS
-1  Could not find a sound clip with one on an S4RS
-1  Knew (for fear of lean) I would have to buy the DP ECU anyway

Total = -1 bought the full termi system

I can be the Ginnea Pig for the forum, take one for the team!  [thumbsup]

OK the Akrapovic Evolution System is in the amil on it's way, getting closer each day. Should be here and installed by Sunday! I am still on the fence about what to do after that with A/F. I could go Power Commander, or I am thinking Pro Tune and reflash my ECU. ANy insight to that, I am guessing Pro Tune, if it works as intended should be the better choice. Maybe?

Has somebody ran the PCIII and the FATDUC together? Does that remove the o2 sensor or it leaves the sensor and adjusts it? 

Keep you posted

Can't wait  [popcorn]

No, but I've been thinking it should work.

The FatDuc leaves the Lambda sensor (O2 sensor) on the exhaust and adjusts it. It affects the signal from the sensor to the stock ECU.

But the stock ECU attends to the sensor only while in "closed loop" mode, which acc to the Power Commander crew is in the zone of under 19 per cent throttle and/or under 5250rpm. Hence, the FatDuc should allow you to enrich the mixture as desired in this range.

The PCIII will not affect mixture in this range, as any changes will be compensated by the stock ECU and hence eliminated.

But once you get over 5250rpm and 19pc throttle, the stock ECU switches to open loop (again, acc to the PC crew), and so should be tuneable in that range with the PCIII.

Also, given the FatDuc affects only the signal from the O2 sensor, and in the 5250/19pc-plus range the ECU ignores the sensor, the FatDuc should not affect fuelling at all in that range.

IN THEORY, you could have the best of both worlds here: a closed-loop system that will automatically maintain the air-fuel ratio you choose (via the FatDuc) in steady cruise conditions, which switches to an open-loop system tuneable via the PCIII as soon as you get solidly into the mid-range and open the throttle.

In practice? Something tells me there's a major snag that the theory doesn't account for. Hope I'm wrong tho.

I imagine you'll be the first to go this way.

I expect you would need to select the PCIII map offered for the 'stock' system, then have someone custom-map the PCIII to suit the Akra for just the open-loop area.

My thoughts exactly. One would compliment the other, in harmony   [drink] like these two items, beer and men!

You totally brought back a memory from the movie Lethal Weapon, when there are going to Trixy's, Riggs and Mertah think of a scenario and spout off "thin, yeah thin, really thin," then BANG!! the house blows up. Anyways, had to be in my head to get that one maybe ;D

There has to be a missing part, or you would have thought more DMF members would have tried it, as an easy solution to a widely known problem.

For the money you would spend on a fat duc, PC III, and tuning, why not just get one of the reflash kits that are now available?

Jason from FatDuc wrote this to the question at hand:

"You can run the two products together as long as you understand the limitations.  O2 Manipulators do not eliminate the factory
O2 sensor.  You would control the closed loop portion of the fuel map with the O2 Manipulator and the open loop portion with the PC3.  There has been some confusion in the past thinking the Power Commander will have full control of the map after the O2 Manipulator was installed.  We have a couple of customers that run this combination and report it works well for their needs."

I am thinking on the same lines as DucNRun now, was not sure if the PCIII being a workable poduct as well as the FatDuc, if better results could be achieved due to more knobbes cold be tweaked.  ??? 

DucRulz,

thanks for citing the clarification from Jason at FatDuc. It sounds, then, as though the snag is not so much in the theory itself as in the effort required to apply it effectively.

Keeping the closed-loop ECU would probably allow you to run the bike a bit leaner in the closed loop part of the map than you'd be game to with a fully  open-loop system. That could help preserve the stock bike's nice fuel efficiency (an important consideration for me) but you'd also be stuck with the erratic low-speed running.

Enrich the mixture enough with the FatDuc to smooth out the motor and you'll likely do no better than if you had an open-loop ECU tuned for max efficiency via a PCIII (or custom-mapped Nemesis).

And at the other end, I'm guessing you'd get better power from a nice, rich, open-loop solution with minor PC trimming (or custom-mapped Nemesis), than with the PC attempting to dramatically enrich the open-loop portion of the stock ECU's map.

If you are going to end up with a Nemesis, then you don't need a PCIII.

But if you are going the DP ECU or equivalent reflash route, then you may well want to trim with a PCIII anyway.

Given that the Akra carries a port for the O2 sensor, somebody at Akrapovic thinks it will work okay with the stock ECU. If so, it should work even better with FatDuc and a PCIII loaded with the 'stock' map.

If later on you want to go open-loop via a reflash, your experiment will have cost you only the price of the FatDuc.

(Assuming no engine damage from running too lean, perhaps a dangerous assumption.)

Ah, choices ...

BTW, I have a barely used Fat Duc FS. PM if interested.

Took the day off from work, waited around all day to see if "Brown" had a packege for me yestrday. B-I-N-G-O it came around 2 o'clock. Good directions, photo copied pictures but better than nothing [coffee]. Fit and finish look excellent, passed the eye candy test. I'll start install tonight, should finish early Saturday depending on when my brewski runs dry [drink]. Felt feather light so definit weight reducing mod.

All in all, looks like a very quality addition to the Duc. I'll get pics and more info up Monday or Sunday after  a little more hands-on garage time.

Without a DP ECU this is all just pissing into the wind.

And none of the set ups talked about earlier will equal the DP ECU in low speed smooth operation as well as plenty fuel to run wide open.

DP ECU is stinkingly expensive at $1300.  Re-flash stock ECU $500 ? maybe?

The other models of controllers will never talk well to the stock ECU that's looking for feedback from the o2 sensor to look up the correct amount of fuel.  DP ECU doesn't look for O2 readings.

Of course, YRMV.

Good luck,
LA

update?

(http://i93.photobucket.com/albums/l44/Tommy2425/SD530213.jpg)

(http://i93.photobucket.com/albums/l44/Tommy2425/SD530211.jpg)

(http://i93.photobucket.com/albums/l44/Tommy2425/SD530214.jpg)

(http://i93.photobucket.com/albums/l44/Tommy2425/SD530216.jpg)

(http://i93.photobucket.com/albums/l44/Tommy2425/SD530217.jpg)

IMO- Welds are excellent and quality, sound is great. Not loud but throaty. I will get the ECU and DP airbox installed by next weekend I can update again on changes. It does feel peppier!

Any chance to get a video up on youtube?

I don't have a digital recorder, but I will ask a couple buddies.