Just had new tires put on the Jetta.
Long story short, driver's side rear brake system is effed.
No pad left, ground on rotor.
Passenger rear has 50% pad and is fine.
I am having an independent mechanic do the work.
Got some OEM rotors and pads for 65$ (helps to have my wife's family involved in the auto distribution business).
The question..........
Do I need to replace both Calipers or just the malfunctioning rear drivers side one?
Where is a good place to source the purchase of these?
Jud,
Just replace the one caliper. Shouldn't be a big deal. Try International Parts on Westerville Rd (close to Iron Pony) they should be able to get you the caliper.
Quote from: metallimonster on April 20, 2009, 10:40:59 AM
Jud,
Just replace the one caliper. Shouldn't be a big deal. Try International Parts on Westerville Rd (close to Iron Pony) they should be able to get you the caliper.
check the parking brake cable on that side.
if they get the slightest rust inside they will cause the caliper to drag and wear the pads.. replacing the caliper won't fix the problem.
the cable should move freely when disconnected from the caliper.
the only other dragging caliper problems I've seen are from rust in the pins, they should be pulled, cleaned and lubed anytime a brake job is done.
if you're looking for online sources, when I had my Passat I dealt with World Impex, parts4vws.com vwparts.com a lot.
Depending how much they are each, I might consider the classifieds at vwvortex.com for a used one.
Thanks everyone for the quick replies.
The tire shop was telling me that if I replace one caliper, then both must be replaced.
I didn't really buy that response and it sounds like from the auto guru's that they were full of shit.
I have been checking out some online parts shops and calipers look to be about 142$ a pop
Quote from: acalles on April 20, 2009, 10:52:50 AM
check the parking brake cable on that side.
if they get the slightest rust inside they will cause the caliper to drag and wear the pads.. replacing the caliper won't fix the problem.
the cable should move freely when disconnected from the caliper.
the only other dragging caliper problems I've seen are from rust in the pins, they should be pulled, cleaned and lubed anytime a brake job is done.
Duh, Don't know how I forgot about this. I've probably replaced 25 of these. Check this first. Going to be a lot more time involved than just replacing a caliper though. Let me know if you need me to come by and check it out.
Quote from: metallimonster on April 20, 2009, 11:01:50 AM
Duh, Don't know how I forgot about this. I've probably replaced 25 of these. Check this first. Going to be a lot more time involved than just replacing a caliper though. Let me know if you need me to come by and check it out.
I just got off the phone with my mechanic and he was saying replacing the calipers is premature because and I quote:
"the make the beast with two backsing blah blah blah sticks and it make the beast with two backss up the blah blah blah and it doesnt need to be make the beast with two backsing replaced. god damn assholes at those tire places should be shot"
Didn't mention the parking brake, but I think he said something about a spacer or mounting bracket or something. I dont know, the guy is hard to understand
Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the parking break only on the rear passenger wheel?
I'm curious as to the outcome of this. I've got an 05' Golf. I had my passenger brake smoking the other day, but the parking break wasn't even on.
What I do know is that these VWs have some odd break wear patterns. My wifes 04 Jetta wore down the front rotors and had to be replaced, but the pads looked brand new. Both items were the oem from factory.
Then I've always thought that most cars wear their front pads down two or even three times before the rears has to be changed, like my beemer. But the same Jetta had the rears changed three weeks after the front, and the rears were almost metal on metal. WTF
I've got 60k miles on the car and the front brakes look great
Quote from: cyrus buelton on April 20, 2009, 11:31:46 AM
I've got 60k miles on the car and the front brakes look great
Look great sure. But what about the rotors? I'd measure them. The work I mentioned above was all done around 65k. And yes the pads looked new, but shouldn't at 60k. And performance blows, lots of brake fad on these cars.
Quote from: OverCaffeinated on April 20, 2009, 11:26:05 AM
Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the parking break only on the rear passenger wheel?
I'm curious as to the outcome of this. I've got an 05' Golf. I had my passenger brake smoking the other day, but the parking break wasn't even on.
What I do know is that these VWs have some odd break wear patterns. My wifes 04 Jetta wore down the front rotors and had to be replaced, but the pads looked brand new. Both items were the oem from factory.
Then I've always thought that most cars wear their front pads down two or even three times before the rears has to be changed, like my beemer. But the same Jetta had the rears changed three weeks after the front, and the rears were almost metal on metal. WTF
1. parking brake goes to both rear wheels each with its own cable and adjustment.
2. Its possible the cable is getting rusted on one side only.. I had a car come in this winter, dragging both rear wheels, because Ice built up in the cables and they didn't release.. 10 minuets with a heat gun she was back on the road.
3. I don't know why the rotors would have worn before the pads. honestly you get about 2 or 3 pads to a rotor unless it warps.
4. vw's always wear out the rear pads about 2-1 over the front, generally about 40k on the rears and 80k on the fronts. This is due to vw's additional brake proportioning going to the rear so the vehicle brakes with significantly less dive then most vehicles.
Quotegod damn assholes at those tire places should be shot
yep, usually trying to make a quick sale to people who don't know better. tire shops are good for tires. don't let em make the beast with two backs with anything else.
Quote from: OverCaffeinated on April 20, 2009, 11:47:15 AM
Look great sure. But what about the rotors? I'd measure them. The work I mentioned above was all done around 65k. And yes the pads looked new, but shouldn't at 60k. And performance blows, lots of brake fad on these cars.
and your sure you've got OEM parts?
Have you had them flushed?
these vehicles are generally very good about not getting fade. they use thinner vented rotors then most manufactures so they can lose heat very quickly, which reduces fade.
brake fluid, being hygroscopic, will absorbe moisture from the air easily, water boils in the brake system at very low temps in comparison to the brake fluids boiling point. this will cause much fade.
Quote from: acalles on April 20, 2009, 11:59:01 AM
and your sure you've got OEM parts?
Have you had them flushed?
these vehicles are generally very good about not getting fade. they use thinner vented rotors then most manufactures so they can lose heat very quickly, which reduces fade.
brake fluid, being hygroscopic, will absorbe moisture from the air easily, water boils in the brake system at very low temps in comparison to the brake fluids boiling point. this will cause much fade.
Positive on them being oem. We bought the car new, and it was the first time anything in the front had been changed.
We do both have entry level models though, the GTIs and VR6s are probably better. And both cars could use a fluid flush. But that still doesn't change the fact that I'm not happy with the poor breaking.
I still can't explain why the front rotors wore so fast. I saw it once on a Honda Accord that I put non oem pads on, and they ate the rotors up. Wrong compound, the dealer told me. Understandable
Quote from: cyrus buelton on April 20, 2009, 11:05:58 AM
I just got off the phone with my mechanic and he was saying replacing the calipers is premature because and I quote:
"the make the beast with two backsing blah blah blah sticks and it make the beast with two backss up the blah blah blah and it doesnt need to be make the beast with two backsing replaced. god damn assholes at those tire places should be shot"
I was going to say something similar, but with less swearing. Sometimes the plungers get stuck and won't release, they just need to be greased...
Quote from: NAKID on April 20, 2009, 12:17:31 PM
I was going to say something similar, but with less swearing.
I actually had to censor what he actually said as I really don't want to be called a "racist" as I have been called that here in the past.
Wow. Seems like I should be glad I got a Mk V. I did the rears on it two months ago and the only drama to be had was needing special tools to do the job.
Quote from: OverCaffeinated on April 20, 2009, 12:14:03 PM
Positive on them being oem. We bought the car new, and it was the first time anything in the front had been changed.
We do both have entry level models though, the GTIs and VR6s are probably better. And both cars could use a fluid flush. But that still doesn't change the fact that I'm not happy with the poor breaking.
I still can't explain why the front rotors wore so fast. I saw it once on a Honda Accord that I put non oem pads on, and they ate the rotors up. Wrong compound, the dealer told me. Understandable
GTI and Golf had the same brakes, only 337, 20th AE, GLI and R32 had bigger brakes.
Did any one turn them? thats a big no-no. they will warp and wear quick. Lots of people think I'm full of it on this one, then they go to $99 brake job down the street, 2 weeks there back rotors warped and brakes squeeling, giving me the $350 they could have given me in the first place [laugh]
If your braking is sub par, and you've got the 2.0, check the vaccum line that leads to the booster, they crack and you don't get the correct amount of vacuum, so the brakes will suck.
have them flushed, you should do it every 2 years or 40k which ever comes first. I live in the desert and the fluid gets nasty after two years, if you live some place humid I can imagine there really nasty. If your vehicle has steel wheels rather then aluminum, your braking will be even worse, they don't get a lot of air threw them and get pretty hot.
Rotors wear faster than usual on most European cars because they use a softer cast iron with a pretty aggressive pad. If a VW rotor has mileage on it there is no way you will machine it and not go below minimum thickness. As far as rear brake wear goes, acalles is correct about the proportioning, many 4 wheel disc cars do not even use proportioning valves, just a fixed difference in pressure between front and rear. Also look at the difference in brake size between the front and rear. The back brakes do not need to be big on a front wheel drive car since most of the braking from high speed is done with the front brakes. Smaller brakes, less unsprung weight.
Quote from: OverCaffeinated on April 20, 2009, 12:14:03 PM
Positive on them being oem. We bought the car new, and it was the first time anything in the front had been changed.
We do both have entry level models though, the GTIs and VR6s are probably better. And both cars could use a fluid flush. But that still doesn't change the fact that I'm not happy with the poor breaking.
I still can't explain why the front rotors wore so fast. I saw it once on a Honda Accord that I put non oem pads on, and they ate the rotors up. Wrong compound, the dealer told me. Understandable
The difference in rotor size between your "entry level Golf and a GTI is .3" and rotor thickness is the same, also larger than many more powerfull, heavier cars and more than adequate for stopping your car. If you are having brake fade problems, there is something seriously wrong with your car. Even old brake fluid shouldn't make that much of a difference in normal driving. My guess is dragging brakes, perhaps from brake fluid contaminated with oil, binding calipers or a brake booster that is not releasing vacuum. This would explain rapid wear, fade, and other problems.
Quote from: howie on April 20, 2009, 02:08:03 PM
The difference in rotor size between your "entry level Golf and a GTI is .3" and rotor thickness is the same, also larger than many more powerfull, heavier cars and more than adequate for stopping your car.
your right, I totally spaced the different wheel bearing housing on the golf and beetle, where the caliper bolts directly to the wheel bearing housing rather then the caliper bracket. they have the 280x22, the other cars had 288x25's. different pads too..
the lower end ones have a problem with leaving a lip on the out side of the rotor. I've seen lots of shops just pad slap (rather then change the rotor) with that lip, and the pad gets cought on the lip making it hard for the pads to contact the rotor fully. that'll make your brakes feel like shit too.
Yes steering knucke and hubs are different. Then some golf vr6 have 312mm and the r32 has 334mm rotors.
But I think I thread jacked enough. I'm gonna flush the fluid and call it a day.
Thanks for the interesting facts guys [bow_down]
I just confirmed with several different sources that if one Caliper is bad, there is no reason to replace the other.
Amazing how these shops are in business selling this bullshit.
Quote from: cyrus buelton on April 20, 2009, 06:50:53 PM
I just confirmed with several different sources that if one Caliper is bad, there is no reason to replace the other.
Amazing how these shops are in business selling this bullshit.
Text book with hydraulics is replace both since they have equal mileage, wear and age. This certainly made sense in the days of the $12 wheel cylinder, but today we may be dealing with calipers costing up to $600 and possibly more new that are often replaced with rebuilts of dubious quality, so it becomes the tech's call. In the case of your relatively Golf, first I would check the parking brake cable and caliper hardware on that side. After pinpointing the caliper, unless I had reason to suspect the other caliper might cause a problem i would just change that side.
Thanks everyone for your help!
Just waiting for my rotors and pads to get in, then taking it to my guy Capt Hook for the work
or
if Metallimonster wants to come over and do it........... ;D
Quote from: howie on April 20, 2009, 08:58:40 PM
In the case of your relatively Golf, first I would check the parking brake cable and caliper hardware on that side. After pinpointing the caliper, unless I had reason to suspect the other caliper might cause a problem i would just change that side.
FWIW, I've never had a dragging brake problem caused by the caliper. Although I did once replaced brake lines that were causing the brakes to drag, they were worn out, the rubber on the inside was cracking and would peel back acting like a check valve, causing a small amount of pressure to keep the pads contacting the rotors with more force the usual.
you'd crack the bleeder and a bit of fluid would spray out, then the wheel was free again. replaced the lines and it worked fine after that.
only time I've replaced calipers is due to leakage.
Quote from: acalles on April 21, 2009, 11:11:40 AM
FWIW, I've never had a dragging brake problem caused by the caliper. Although I did once replaced brake lines that were causing the brakes to drag, they were worn out, the rubber on the inside was cracking and would peel back acting like a check valve, causing a small amount of pressure to keep the pads contacting the rotors with more force the usual.
you'd crack the bleeder and a bit of fluid would spray out, then the wheel was free again. replaced the lines and it worked fine after that.
only time I've replaced calipers is due to leakage.
Exactly why I said check everything else first.