Title: 14T x 47T combo on M696? Post by: peanut_man on April 21, 2009, 09:19:04 AM Hi,
I know Ducati offers 14-15T front sprockets and 45-47T rear sprockets. Has anyone done the 14T x 47T combo? Would that be too low? Would a new chain be needed? I know 14T x 46T works as a few people on this board has done so. Here are the combo ratios:
I just did the 14T conversion, that gives me a relatively big jump of almost 7% increase in final drive ratio. If I'm going to get rear 46T sprocket, I would gain only abt 2% more. But if I go for a 47T rear, I would incrase the final drive ratio to a sizable 4% increase. According to other member here that has 14T x 46T setup , highway crusing at 55-60mph still lugs the RPM at around 4000 in 5th gear. This indicates to me there's still plenty of headroom in the street for lower gearing. Anyone have done this? And would I need a new chain? Thanks for any suggestion. Title: Re: 14T x 47T combo on M696? Post by: minnesotamonster on April 21, 2009, 10:51:20 AM According to other member here that has 14T x 46T setup , highway crusing at 55-60mph still lugs the RPM at around 4000 in 5th gear. This indicates to me there's still plenty of headroom in the street for lower gearing. Or you could just downshift. ;) Title: Re: 14T x 47T combo on M696? Post by: Takster on April 21, 2009, 10:57:38 AM Or you could just downshift. ;) My thoughts exactly... No 14t for me yet, but at 60, I'm in 3rd Title: Re: 14T x 47T combo on M696? Post by: peanut_man on April 21, 2009, 11:46:11 AM Still hoping for some useful replies. [roll]
Seriously tho, if I can get away with 14T x 47T setup without changing my chain, it would greatly enhance city riding even more. Even with 14T up front, it still feels that the gears are too tall. I find only the first 4 gears useful right now. Title: Re: 14T x 47T combo on M696? Post by: minnesotamonster on April 21, 2009, 11:49:24 AM These replies are useful. You should not be anywhere near 5th gear when going 50-60 mph.
The 14t up front should more then get you your desired gearing. Going an additional two up in the back is overkill IMO Title: Re: 14T x 47T combo on M696? Post by: DucatiTorrey on April 21, 2009, 12:43:16 PM My thoughts exactly... No 14t for me yet, but at 60, I'm in 3rd at what RPM? Title: Re: 14T x 47T combo on M696? Post by: gearhead on April 21, 2009, 06:27:21 PM Quote Or you could just downshift. ......... [laugh] [clap]Title: Re: 14T x 47T combo on M696? Post by: peanut_man on April 21, 2009, 07:38:30 PM These replies are useful. You should not be anywhere near 5th gear when going 50-60 mph. The 14t up front should more then get you your desired gearing. Going an additional two up in the back is overkill IMO OK, I'm going to avoid getting into the topic of the usefulness of previous replies as it won't get me the info i'm looking for anyway, so moving on... Any reason why it would be overkill? I'm hoping to get some more useful gearing on the street where 95% of my riding is. It's unlikely I'll ever go above 80 mph. Right now it feels like I really have only 4 gears with the first gear useless in any traffic slower than 15mph. What would be the harm in having 14T x 47T? RPM would be higher at a given gear / speed. But as stated, I have at least 2 more gear I can use. Guess I'll have to do some calculation to get the speed / rpm range with the 14x47 combo to see really how suitable this is. I'm sure there's a gearing / speed calculator on the web some where, will google it later. I'm sure someone will bring up argument about going to the track, but if that happens I'll just change out the sprockets, no issue. Fact is, at best the track would be 5% or less of my riding anyway. Interestingly I got a way more constructive reply on the "other" monster forum: Quote Hi, On my 05 M620D, I got it with 15/48; I love this combo. Where I live, the road is either an uphill or a downhill, coming from the side that has the more uphill and turns, I leave it in third gear and that's it. A friend with a similar Ducati but 14/46 or 14/45, has to be shifting up and down, I just twist the throttle... I prefer the combination that gives me the most torque so that I don't have to be shifting; usually around the city I ride in 3rd or 4th gear, can't go higher. But, if you want speed, go ahead and make the change. If not, leave it stock or try to go 14/49 or 15/48. Keep On Ridin' At least that gives me some idea of what's possible / has been done. Really it seems to make sense to go for 14x47. I don't really see a significant downside. Title: Re: 14T x 47T combo on M696? Post by: ducpainter on April 21, 2009, 07:49:47 PM If you go to 14/47 the engine vibration at highway speed might be annoying.
And, for the record 4K rpms isn't lugging. IMO it's the sweet spot for a Duc 2V. Title: Re: 14T x 47T combo on M696? Post by: peanut_man on April 21, 2009, 08:02:59 PM Hmm... from my experience so far, I get more vibration below 4k on the M696. Last Nov I demo one at local dealer event. I found myself keeping the rpm at 6k on highway to keep things smooth. Honestly I think 5-6k is the sweet spot for the M696. Below that it seems to vibrates more and, to me, seems to lugs around. It's, of course, also the max rpm during break-in period. I'm fun-limited right now. :'(
BTW, I'm not alone thinking under 4k the engine is lugging: http://www.motorcycledaily.com/16july08_2009ducati696.htm (http://www.motorcycledaily.com/16july08_2009ducati696.htm) Quote Below about 4,000 rpm, the engine thuds palpably if you twist the grip. You can use low engine speeds for smooth cruising with a barely cracked throttle, but if you want more power, then a downshift is in order. http://www.motorcycle-usa.com/103/729/Motorcycle-Article/2008-Ducati-Monster-696-First-Ride.aspx (http://www.motorcycle-usa.com/103/729/Motorcycle-Article/2008-Ducati-Monster-696-First-Ride.aspx) Quote At low revs, the 696 is a real pussycat and totally inoffensive to even the newest rider. Get the revs up to 6,000 plus and it becomes a very perky little motor which provides a lot of fun for anyone - no matter how demanding their tastes. Title: Re: 14T x 47T combo on M696? Post by: ItalianHarley on April 21, 2009, 09:35:51 PM Looky here:
http://www.gearingcommander.com/ (http://www.gearingcommander.com/) Title: Re: 14T x 47T combo on M696? Post by: Holden on April 21, 2009, 10:26:44 PM If anything I would want taller gears on my 696. It only takes a split second to get going from a standstill even on an incline. Sweet spot is indeed 4k.
Is it just that I'm a lightweight? I honestly have a difficult time wrapping my brain around the very concept of how anyone could possibly want shorter-than-stock gearing. ??? Title: Re: 14T x 47T combo on M696? Post by: z0mb1e_DUC on April 22, 2009, 03:07:10 AM peanut_man, do you have Termi's? I do & I am constantly in the 3.5-4.5k range, it never lugs. In fact, it pulls like a dump truck from there. Only reason I'm considering a 14T is initial take-offs. I'm actually thinking about going up one in the rear, instead. Just not sure I want to go that route, more $$. As for engine vibration, it's less than I'm used to because most of my experience is on singles & twins (MX). If your coming from counterbalanced I-4's, that may be why you aren't used to it.
Title: Re: 14T x 47T combo on M696? Post by: ducpainter on April 22, 2009, 03:47:17 AM Hmm... from my experience so far, I get more vibration below 4k on the M696. Last Nov I demo one at local dealer event. I found myself keeping the rpm at 6k on highway to keep things smooth. Honestly I think 5-6k is the sweet spot for the M696. Below that it seems to vibrates more and, to me, seems to lugs around. It's, of course, also the max rpm during break-in period. I'm fun-limited right now. :'( Maybe the smaller bore motors do lug at 4K with stock gearing.BTW, I'm not alone thinking under 4k the engine is lugging: http://www.motorcycledaily.com/16july08_2009ducati696.htm (http://www.motorcycledaily.com/16july08_2009ducati696.htm) http://www.motorcycle-usa.com/103/729/Motorcycle-Article/2008-Ducati-Monster-696-First-Ride.aspx (http://www.motorcycle-usa.com/103/729/Motorcycle-Article/2008-Ducati-Monster-696-First-Ride.aspx) Both my 900 and my old 750 SS would run smoothly in that range. Neither have stock gearing. Title: Re: 14T x 47T combo on M696? Post by: peanut_man on April 22, 2009, 04:51:19 AM peanut_man, do you have Termi's? I do & I am constantly in the 3.5-4.5k range, it never lugs. In fact, it pulls like a dump truck from there. Only reason I'm considering a 14T is initial take-offs. I'm actually thinking about going up one in the rear, instead. Just not sure I want to go that route, more $$. As for engine vibration, it's less than I'm used to because most of my experience is on singles & twins (MX). If your coming from counterbalanced I-4's, that may be why you aren't used to it. Hi there Zombie. Yup, got the Termi's / ECU combo. (comfort seat too, but that has nothing to do w/ this topic. :) ) Maybe there's some different definition i'm using of 'lugs'. Basically it vibrate a lot below 4k. Yes it still pulls. But I think it pulls way smoother above 4k. I just don't like the feeling of the engine under 4k. It seems to thuds a lot as if it's working too hard. Still in break-in period so I haven't gone above 6k yet, but on the 30 min demo ride last year, 5k - 7k is so sweet on the 696. [moto] For the record, I have owned Buell XB12S, Honda CBR 600RR, and last one was Multistrada 1000DS. The 696 is smoother than all of them. Yes even the I-4 vibrate at a very high frequency, my hands were numb after 45 min or so of riding the CBR. Title: Re: 14T x 47T combo on M696? Post by: peanut_man on April 22, 2009, 04:52:48 AM Looky here: http://www.gearingcommander.com/ (http://www.gearingcommander.com/) You rock! Alright, I think I got all my answers from that site. Awesome. Assuming useful RPM range is 3k-9k, Stock setup: 1st@3k = 16.1mph, 6th@9k = 128.5mph 14x47 setup: 1st@3k = 14.4mph, 6th@9k = 114.8mph For me, on the street, 14x47 setup will make much better use of the gear box. Also, cruising at 65 mph with stock setup I'm looking at 4th gear to be in my happy zone (5k+). But with 14x47, I can make use of 5th or even 6th gear (nearer to 70mph). Also, with the 14x47 setup, I won't need a new chain as the sprocket distance will be shorten by only 0.2" vs. stock setup. Wonderful. I'm happy now. Once I get over the break-in period, I'll swap out the rear for a 47t. It's under $70 from ca-cycleworks. Not that expensive at all. Title: Re: 14T x 47T combo on M696? Post by: ungeheuer on May 07, 2009, 05:28:01 AM I understand where you're coming from.... The million-miles-an-hour guys dont get why you'd wanna be able to use all six gears legally. I thought about the 14t/47t combo a while back.... but let it go due to lack of any useful info on the subject... and now I'm kinda used to my 14t/45t set up...... but..... now you got me thinking about it again.... So, did you make the swap yet and if so, how'd you like it?
Title: Re: 14T x 47T combo on M696? Post by: Raux on May 07, 2009, 11:16:25 AM couple of things.
I think if you go up in back too much you might have to look at the clearance of the chainguard. also, not sure about the gearing. i am running 14x45 and according to the speedo i hit 210kph (130mph) today and still had some revs left. i am not sure the error factor of the speedo but i didn't think i would get close to that with the 14/45. Title: Re: 14T x 47T combo on M696? Post by: Holden on May 07, 2009, 12:22:58 PM I understand where you're coming from.... The million-miles-an-hour guys dont get why you'd wanna be able to use all six gears legally. Mostly I just don't want to need to shift so soon from a stop. Perhaps my issue is not the final drive, but that first gear's ratio is not close enough to second gear's (feels like I'm needing to rev too high in first before I will end up at an adequate RPM in second). And it's almost hard to tell the difference between first gear and neutral with stock gearing! [cheeky] Title: Re: 14T x 47T combo on M696? Post by: peanut_man on May 08, 2009, 07:04:20 AM I understand where you're coming from.... The million-miles-an-hour guys dont get why you'd wanna be able to use all six gears legally. I thought about the 14t/47t combo a while back.... but let it go due to lack of any useful info on the subject... and now I'm kinda used to my 14t/45t set up...... but..... now you got me thinking about it again.... So, did you make the swap yet and if so, how'd you like it? That is exactly how I'm rationalizing it. I'm not sure why I'm being told that I can only use 3-4. :P I'm waiting for the break-in to be over with. Stupid rain past 10 day or so sorta put a stop on things. Haha. It's sunny today and I rode in, so I should be able to finish off the break-in either today or tomorrow. I'm having a hard time finding 47T sprocket however. Interestingly. CA-Cyclework only have 46 or 48 in steel. There's a version of 47 in aluminum, but they recommend against that. There's a DP part for it w/ 47T, but it's around $100 w/ shipping. I'm undecided which to go with. Really like the ones from ca-cyclework tho, it's just more bling. :) Stealth (available @ 46T) (http://www.ca-cycleworks.com/shop/catalog/ducati/img/stealth.jpg) DP (available @ 47T) (http://www.store.commoto.com/images/968302AAA-monster-696-rear-.jpg) Title: Re: 14T x 47T combo on M696? Post by: ungeheuer on May 08, 2009, 07:35:12 AM Is that Supersprox item available with a plain aluminium centre rather than gold??
Title: Re: 14T x 47T combo on M696? Post by: peanut_man on May 08, 2009, 07:41:05 AM Is that Supersprox item available with a plain aluminium centre rather than gold?? No clue, you can contact CA cycleworks to find out. They are awesome at responding. Good question tho. I haven't seen any pics w/ other colors. |