I recently have found a new perspective on the 696 and items needing changing.
Two days ago i put on Pazzo shorty levers and think this is the most important modification to do first on the bike.
A have always advocated the touring seat for it's not ball-crushing angle, but I think I had that wrong for two reasons.
First, I was sitting wrong. not wrong, but wrong for the seat. if you sit with your butt back on the curve of the seat like a cruiser and not up front like a dirt bike... it works. and works well. I'm 5'10" and now my knees fit even better into the tank and i'm nowhere near crushing anything, even under hard braking.
Second, the Pazzos, or any adjustable lever, make the clutch pull a breeze. I wonder why Ducati cut cost on that measure if they made a bike that is meant to be usable by smaller stature riders with equally smaller hands. The clutch pull with the pazzos on 2 is .. just wow.
so, for anyone just getting a 696 or even those who are still crushing berries and complaining about the clutchpull. get some adjustable levers asap. find a good 'back' riding position and enjoy some nice ergos.
Raux.
Thanks for sharing your thoughts... I'm leaning towards the ASV Levers myself.
I totally agree with this. I run the pazzos and the stock seat.
I keep hearing about the nut crushing but I've never had a problem while actually riding. That turn into a problem when I'm trying to get my bike over the lip into the garage. As for the adjustable levers, that was the first change I made and it makes a world of difference but the best change was the addition of CRG Hindsights.
I have been debating the shortie levers for a while. This may put me over.
Did you do them yourself or have them done? I haven't messed with levers on any modern bikes and I'm remembering the hassle of dealing with cables.
i prefer stiff strong levers. i like the feeling you get when you realize that youve built up those forearm muscles enough to where the stiffness doesnt matter anymore.
(the truth is, i have no money) ;)
Quote from: sroberts152 on April 23, 2009, 10:05:48 AM
I have been debating the shortie levers for a while. This may put me over.
Did you do them yourself or have them done? I haven't messed with levers on any modern bikes and I'm remembering the hassle of dealing with cables.
Takes 5 minutes... no cables. don't lose the little nubby thing from the original lever. I think it was my first or second mod. Made a huge difference, as I have small hands.
as far as the nut-crushing, it's only an issue for me in stop and go traffic when I have to put my feet down constantly. The lowest part of the seat is the nut-crusher part, and that's where I have to be to get feet on the ground.
~T
I guess I have a good weekend project. :)
Quote from: sroberts152 on April 23, 2009, 10:54:17 AM
I guess I have a good weekend project. :)
Honestly, it's more of a between breakfast and heading to work project. quite literally took me 5 mins.
Edit: I guess I have something to do between Pats Run and the Sharks game on Saturday - including buying them.
Quote from: Binary on April 23, 2009, 06:35:29 AM
Thanks for sharing your thoughts... I'm leaning towards the ASV Levers myself.
i am also leaning toward ASV, for their good looks and warrantee.
To the OP. what are your thoughts on the shorty levers? nevermind adjustable levers, of course i know thats a must, im more interested in the shorty version versus the full length.
if looks were no issue i think id go shorty on the brake, and full on the clutch. Im just nervous that something will jump out in front of me, and ill mash on the clutch out of pure instinct, and not get all of it, etc.
I notice that reacting to changing conditions im always very deliberate with the brake finger, but in panic i just mash on or off the clutch. maybe i should get a few years under my belt before going to the shorties (they look good) [shrug]
Quote from: Raux on April 23, 2009, 04:52:04 AM
Second, the Pazzos, or any adjustable lever, make the clutch pull a breeze. I wonder why Ducati cut cost on that measure if they made a bike that is meant to be usable by smaller stature riders with equally smaller hands. The clutch pull with the pazzos on 2 is .. just wow.
+1 on the Pazzos. Just want to comment on how big of a different it made for me (M620). At 5'7", the pull on the clutch was stiff and long for me. Pazzos at 2 setting is just perfect.
I know this thread is 696 specific but I can't help it. :P
Quote from: redial on April 23, 2009, 11:55:33 AM
i am also leaning toward ASV, for their good looks and warrantee.
To the OP. what are your thoughts on the shorty levers? nevermind adjustable levers, of course i know thats a must, im more interested in the shorty version versus the full length.
if looks were no issue i think id go shorty on the brake, and full on the clutch. Im just nervous that something will jump out in front of me, and ill mash on the clutch out of pure instinct, and not get all of it, etc.
I notice that reacting to changing conditions im always very deliberate with the brake finger, but in panic i just mash on or off the clutch. maybe i should get a few years under my belt before going to the shorties (they look good) [shrug]
I have shorty levers on both of my bikes. They take about 2 minutes to get used to. I'd get them and not worry about it...you'll be fine.
Quote from: Raux on April 23, 2009, 04:52:04 AM
First, I was sitting wrong. not wrong, but wrong for the seat. if you sit with your butt back on the curve of the seat like a cruiser and not up front like a dirt bike... it works. and works well. I'm 5'10" and now my knees fit even better into the tank and i'm nowhere near crushing anything, even under hard braking.
What you've described might be a good riding position for the seat and for comfort, but it's not ideal for aggressive riding. You want to get your weight forward and over the tank, particularly with the monster weight distribution and ergos.
Mebbe when you're riding aggressively you can get forward and not have to worry about discomfort because you're hanging off? And then you can sit back when cruising. That'd be a good compromise. But you don't want to be sitting back when you're ripping.
Quote from: Triple J on April 23, 2009, 12:06:42 PM
I have shorty levers on both of my bikes. They take about 2 minutes to get used to. I'd get them and not worry about it...you'll be fine.
hey thanks for the FHE. the shorties are what i want deep down inside
now only question left: black or gold?
p.s. your "monstrada" is definitely orgasmic. I loooove those bikes.
Quote from: Spidey on April 23, 2009, 12:46:39 PM
What you've described might be a good riding position for the seat and for comfort, but it's not ideal for aggressive riding. You want to get your weight forward and over the tank, particularly with the monster weight distribution and ergos.
Mebbe when you're riding aggressively you can get forward and not have to worry about discomfort because you're hanging off? And then you can sit back when cruising. That'd be a good compromise. But you don't want to be sitting back when you're ripping.
actually if you read total control it talks about NOT climbing on the tank for cornering. the back seat with leaned forward positioning is more in line with what Lee Parks advocates IMO.
Quote from: Raux on April 23, 2009, 01:43:09 PM
actually if you read total control it talks about NOT climbing on the tank for cornering. the back seat with leaned forward positioning is more in line with what Lee Parks advocates IMO.
after riding a few miles and checking out both positions, the seat is lowest in the front and sitting in the back
feels like im losing leverage due to being higher in the seat.
so park my butt in the front, im not climbing on the tank but hovering with all my weight on the seat of my pants and the balls of my feet (and a little knees), its what works for me [thumbsup] ymmv
It's uncomfortable in city riding when you have to accelerate and stop very often, because when you stop, you are sliding forward and into the tank, so you have to keep all your weight on the hands. This is the problem I find with the seat, if you are riding on the highway it's not a problem really unless you are breaking heavily all of them time and holding all of the weight with your hands not to get smacked into the tank.
ps. one more thing to avoid that is to have the weight on your feet, like not sitting with all of your weight on the seat, but that is difficult because of the short distance to footpegs and the angle how legs are bent.
4,000,000 has to be record mileage on a 696.
Raux, I was wanting to get the pazzos shortie levers mainly because I have large hands, and when I pull in the clutch (two finger style), I usually smash my ring finger. Does the pazzo short lever leave extra room near the ring finger? or am I screwed and need to try a new clutching technique.
Please look at the ABM synto.
They don't clamp your fingers like Pazzos do on the smallest setting
Besides they look 10 times more elegant. [wine]
i agree with Raux, i've been using these riding positions since day one.
Quote from: Spidey on April 23, 2009, 12:46:39 PM
What you've described might be a good riding position for the seat and for comfort, but it's not ideal for aggressive riding. You want to get your weight forward and over the tank, particularly with the monster weight distribution and ergos.
Mebbe when you're riding aggressively you can get forward and not have to worry about discomfort because you're hanging off? And then you can sit back when cruising. That'd be a good compromise. But you don't want to be sitting back when you're ripping.
+1. This is why I didn't stay with the stock seat- you really
need to be forward to get the best handling out of your Monster, esp. in the twisties.
As far as the levers, I use 2 fingers on both clutch and brakes, so the stock levers worked fine - the inside portion of the levers was closest to the grip. The adjustable levers do improve things a little, though.
Is it the length of the pull on the stock levers that people are having trouble with, or the heaviness of the pull? I never found the clutch effort to be a problem - the M696 does have a wet clutch and prob the easiest effort of any Duc I've ever ridden.
Quote from: swampduc on April 24, 2009, 07:52:11 AM
Is it the length of the pull on the stock levers that people are having trouble with, or the heaviness of the pull?
For me it was that the point of engagement was too far out. With my small hands, I was barely getting fingertips on the clutch lever when the clutch was disengaged (fully out) which made me have to move my entire arm to get there. For reference, I've got my long-armed Pazzos on the '1' setting, and it's almost perfect. I've heard some others complain that the slip-zone was too short, but I haven't had any real issues with it. The pull isn't that bad for me either... especially now that it's closer to the grip at full-out.
Quote from: Rameses on April 24, 2009, 12:28:50 AM
4,000,000 has to be record mileage on a 696.
it's 4000 k as in kilometers... :P
Quote from: danaid on April 24, 2009, 12:53:41 AM
Raux, I was wanting to get the pazzos shortie levers mainly because I have large hands, and when I pull in the clutch (two finger style), I usually smash my ring finger. Does the pazzo short lever leave extra room near the ring finger? or am I screwed and need to try a new clutching technique.
yeah there is good room i think for a bigger hand. i use two finger braking most of the time. three finger clutch.
I still think and have been saying all along the 2 mods needed for the 696 are the DP touring seat and adjustable levers. The latter solved my stalling when I struggled with the long reach to engage. I absolutely hated that and the pitch of the seat, so I did both mods within a month of owning the bike.
that being said, i am making my judgements about the seating position using the touring seat (the first mod i did on the bike). i will switch to the stock seat for a weekend ride soon to give my comparisons.
Personally, I've got really long fingers. My only issue is more with the engagement zone of the clutch. Brakes are great. The clutch is all really front loaded as far as engagement goes, which is really only an issue with launching. I haven't put alot of miles on yet, so still adjusting to it. I actually like it for shifting at speed.
Just my 2 cents...
I find that the stock levers are fine - I like the Pazzo levers but I don't really need the adjustment
I have the DP touring seat and find it super comfy
But what I find interesting about nesting your butt in the curve of either the stock or DP seat is that the stock mirrors show what's behind you
When I am sitting closer to the tank, I get a great view of my wrists
I am probably the only one on this forum who actually likes the stock mirrors (as opposed to aftermarket bar ends)
BucciMonster
Quote from: BucciMonster on April 25, 2009, 04:25:15 PM
Just my 2 cents...
I find that the stock levers are fine - I like the Pazzo levers but I don't really need the adjustment
I have the DP touring seat and find it super comfy
But what I find interesting about nesting your butt in the curve of either the stock or DP seat is that the stock mirrors show what's behind you
When I am sitting closer to the tank, I get a great view of my wrists
I am probably the only one on this forum who actually likes the stock mirrors (as opposed to aftermarket bar ends)
BucciMonster
No, I think the design of the stock ones is awesome ;)
The levers are surely a good investment, I installed them around 2000 km ago and had them on a medium setting. Just recently I set them to the shortest distance "1" and wowww, the gears flip in so much smoother and the pull is really light.
I am somewhat more critical about the seat. IMHO the stock seat design is a disaster and the touring seat is better but far from really good (red stitching is nice though), especially 2 up / downhill. On a quality bike I want to jump on it and feel at home, not try various seating positions, spend $$$ upgrading and still end up with a just-so-so solution. Like on the other models the seat should raise towards the tank so you can sit on the seat and not between seat and tank... still it doesn't keep me from having fun with the bike [moto]