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Title: Other Ducatis' wheels fit on the 696? Post by: peanut_man on April 28, 2009, 03:51:36 AM Hello,
It looks like pjfa is going to get a Ducati ST 5.5" wheel for his 696. That gets me thinking, what's the compatibility among the wheels on the Ducatis' (or maybe other bikes too?). It would be nice if I can get a used set of wheels to convert to 180-series rear w/o shelling out $1300 for the 696 specific wheel set. Thanks. More to come: From Germany (carbonworld.de) (http://www.carbonworld.de/shop/images/product_images/info_images/029dm_1.jpg) From UK (ebay) rear wheel 5.5 Ducati ST (http://img223.imageshack.us/img223/9421/bqi1h3qb2kkgrhgohccejll.jpg) (http://img518.imageshack.us/img518/6049/bqi1n5gbwkkgrhgohemejll.jpg) Title: Re: Other Ducatis' wheels fit on the 696? Post by: Big Troubled Bear on April 28, 2009, 04:08:46 AM I got a used ST rear wheel for my 696 and after trying to fit the thing and having a battle I decided to do some measurements.
Lo and behold the ST wheel Hub is 5 mm wider than the 696 wheel, so now the left side spacer and caliper carrier are in for some machining down, other than that I can`t tell you much [bang] The DSS wheels of all the fuel injected models and the ST series bikes are the same, wether 3 spoke or 5 spoke, I have measured them all, so there are no bolt on replacement, some machining will be required. Title: Re: Other Ducatis' wheels fit on the 696? Post by: pjfa on April 28, 2009, 06:18:53 AM Hi all ;D
Seems it will need some work... I´m trying to contact a owner from Spain with a rear wheel from ST3. I let you the pics. (http://i44.tinypic.com/sgn6gy.jpg) (http://i41.tinypic.com/2q8wos0.jpg) I know that another owner (French) use a rear wheel from a 99 SS Title: Re: Other Ducatis' wheels fit on the 696? Post by: mrplease on April 28, 2009, 06:36:48 AM are you gonna paint that bad boy black?
Title: Re: Other Ducatis' wheels fit on the 696? Post by: pjfa on April 28, 2009, 06:43:14 AM are you gonna paint that bad boy black? Don´t know yet. I like the way it looks. But, I will put the red wheel stripe [thumbsup] Title: Re: Other Ducatis' wheels fit on the 696? Post by: junior varsity on April 28, 2009, 07:51:35 AM The axle sizes of the bikes change faster than the weather. Old bikes' rear axles were 17mm, then 20mm, then 25mm. So that's part of the equation as well.
Front axles change the same way. Some were hollow, some were not. My axles are 17mm rear, 20mm solid front, I believe. Title: Re: Other Ducatis' wheels fit on the 696? Post by: pjfa on April 28, 2009, 08:00:38 AM The axle sizes of the bikes change faster than the weather. Old bikes' rear axles were 17mm, then 20mm, then 25mm. So that's part of the equation as well. Front axles change the same way. Some were hollow, some were not. My axles are 17mm rear, 20mm solid front, I believe. Yes, agree but the rear axle in this case (2004 ST) is a 25mm so as the M696 I think ??? Title: Re: Other Ducatis' wheels fit on the 696? Post by: junior varsity on April 28, 2009, 08:22:14 AM Didn't know if 696 was the same. Spacers can be made if needed for left-to-right positioning. If its the same size axle as other monsters, then there is Carrozzeria aluminum lightweight wheels available, and I'm sure there's a BST wheel for your bike, if you got the dough.
Title: Re: Other Ducatis' wheels fit on the 696? Post by: pjfa on April 28, 2009, 12:23:12 PM Didn't know if 696 was the same. Spacers can be made if needed for left-to-right positioning. If its the same size axle as other monsters, then there is Carrozzeria aluminum lightweight wheels available, and I'm sure there's a BST wheel for your bike, if you got the dough. Carrozzeria looks nice [thumbsup] But out of my range ;D BST don´t have plans to offer products to M696 but, out of my range too [coffee] From 13.08.2008 Hello Paulo Thank you for your email and enquiry. We have not measured the 696 yet and are not intending to make wheels for it. So I can’t tell you if any of our wheels will fit your motorcycle. Sorry! Do you think there is a market for us on the 696? We thought the bike would be too small for our wheels. The wheels come with all bearings, rubbers etc. You only need to get a new sprocket to fit our sprocket carrier. Thanks a lot and good luck, terry Terry Annecke BlackStone Tek www.blackstonetek.com (http://) Title: Re: Other Ducatis' wheels fit on the 696? Post by: junior varsity on April 28, 2009, 01:54:50 PM That question is exactly better posed to MotoWheels than BST themselves because Motowheels is the big vendor here, with intimate knowledge of both the wheels and Ducati's, and they have a project M696. That's who to ask, because likely the wheels can be made to fit.
Then again, if Carrozzeria's are out of the price range, BST's are WAY out of the price range. Title: Re: Other Ducatis' wheels fit on the 696? Post by: Raux on April 28, 2009, 09:47:34 PM Yes, agree but the rear axle in this case (2004 ST) is a 25mm so as the M696 I think ??? looks like you need rear tires too. what are you going with? Title: Re: Other Ducatis' wheels fit on the 696? Post by: pjfa on April 29, 2009, 04:09:32 AM That question is exactly better posed to MotoWheels than BST themselves because Motowheels is the big vendor here, with intimate knowledge of both the wheels and Ducati's, and they have a project M696. That's who to ask, because likely the wheels can be made to fit. Then again, if Carrozzeria's are out of the price range, BST's are WAY out of the price range. I will, thank´s [thumbsup] looks like you need rear tires too. what are you going with? I always liked Dunlop D207 (now D208) but, I´m listen to your suggestion [moto] Title: Re: Other Ducatis' wheels fit on the 696? Post by: Takster on April 29, 2009, 05:35:41 AM If you get a response from motowheels, please post up and let us know!
Thanks! ~T Title: Re: Other Ducatis' wheels fit on the 696? Post by: junior varsity on April 29, 2009, 05:47:08 AM Dunlops are usually a heavier tire, fyi. If you are going to be putting a 180 on, already heavier you may want to think about this. Putting heavier rotating parts on slows down the turn-in significantly.
One of the vendors on the Ducati.ms site did a comparison of tire-weights in order to prove the point that one may cancel out any benefit of lightweight wheels if they put on crappy, heavy tires. Likewise, one could gain some of the benefits of lightweight wheels simply by changing away from the heavy tires and putting on some lighter weight tires, especially since that rotational mass is farthest out, and makes the biggest impact. (opposite of upgrading the rotor bolts to titanium, because they are the closest to the center and make the least difference) He also talks about the combo-wheels where its magnesium spokes & hub, with carbon rim. Saving weight at the outside, where it makes the most difference. Obviously saving weight everywhere would make the bike fastest, but if you were only going to cut it some place, the farthest parts out are the most important: the tire and the rim. Title: Re: Other Ducatis' wheels fit on the 696? Post by: junior varsity on April 29, 2009, 05:48:16 AM Because I thought you would doubt me:
http://www.ducati.ms/forums/showthread.php?t=29854 (http://www.ducati.ms/forums/showthread.php?t=29854) Title: Re: Other Ducatis' wheels fit on the 696? Post by: mrplease on April 29, 2009, 07:04:51 AM michelin pilot power are a nice sticky tire. i plan on getting the pilot power 2 ct next time.
i'm not sure if these are heavy or light tires though, if that matters to you... (http://i253.photobucket.com/albums/hh68/mrpleaseplease/monster/07.jpg) (http://i253.photobucket.com/albums/hh68/mrpleaseplease/monster/IMG_1829.jpg) Title: Re: Other Ducatis' wheels fit on the 696? Post by: junior varsity on April 29, 2009, 10:53:23 AM Powers are very much overkill for a street ridden 696. Roads or Road 2's are more than you'll ever need and people even use these for trackdays, and actually have some wet weather performance, and unlike the Powers, won't square off really fast which seriously undermines turn-in.
Title: Re: Other Ducatis' wheels fit on the 696? Post by: mrplease on April 29, 2009, 11:17:42 AM yeah i've heard good things about the michelin pilot road tires. i heard they also have a longer life than the pilot power ones do. they look pretty cool too!
Title: Re: Other Ducatis' wheels fit on the 696? Post by: pjfa on April 29, 2009, 11:55:11 AM Because I thought you would doubt me: http://www.ducati.ms/forums/showthread.php?t=29854 (http://www.ducati.ms/forums/showthread.php?t=29854) Nice. It would be great if we all get the last info/weights of last generation tires [thumbsup] So, anyone want to start? ;D Title: Re: Other Ducatis' wheels fit on the 696? Post by: junior varsity on April 29, 2009, 12:29:50 PM yeah i've heard good things about the michelin pilot road tires. i heard they also have a longer life than the pilot power ones do. they look pretty cool too! Road 2's still have the long life, but with very sticky edges for grip to rival the Powers. My power squared off on me way too quickly. Powers will only be on superbikes for me from now on. Title: Re: Other Ducatis' wheels fit on the 696? Post by: pjfa on May 01, 2009, 02:34:28 PM I got a used ST rear wheel for my 696 and after trying to fit the thing and having a battle I decided to do some measurements. Lo and behold the ST wheel Hub is 5 mm wider than the 696 wheel, so now the left side spacer and caliper carrier are in for some machining down, other than that I can`t tell you much [bang] The DSS wheels of all the fuel injected models and the ST series bikes are the same, wether 3 spoke or 5 spoke, I have measured them all, so there are no bolt on replacement, some machining will be required. Any update info??? [coffee] [thumbsup] Title: Re: Other Ducatis' wheels fit on the 696? Post by: peanut_man on May 01, 2009, 08:17:41 PM :P
So... OK, I guess it's not that easy to get wheels from a different bike to fit the M696. Too bad. Title: Re: Other Ducatis' wheels fit on the 696? Post by: Big Troubled Bear on May 04, 2009, 12:22:49 AM Any update info??? [coffee] [thumbsup] Nope not yet [bang] Title: Re: Other Ducatis' wheels fit on the 696? Post by: pjfa on May 05, 2009, 09:16:37 AM Nope not yet [bang] Hot News [evil] Wheel will fit without any machining [thumbsup] I´m just waiting for confirmation from a Spanish. He told me already 3 guys with M696 install the rear wheel from a Ducati ST. Only 3 little things to do and the wheel fit as standart [bow_down] He sent me a e-mail with the "How.to" One - remove a rubber bushing (I think is one of two rubber things in the carrier of the M696) Two - invert the aloy spacer (I don´t know if the left one or the rigth one :o ) Tree - remove a aloy spacer When I have all the info I will inform you all. So, go for the ST rear Wheels [thumbsup] Title: Re: Other Ducatis' wheels fit on the 696? Post by: peanut_man on May 05, 2009, 12:05:01 PM Hot News [evil] Wheel will fit without any machining [thumbsup] I´m just waiting for confirmation from a Spanish. He told me already 3 guys with M696 install the rear wheel from a Ducati ST. Only 3 little things to do and the wheel fit as standart [bow_down] He sent me a e-mail with the "How.to" One - remove a rubber bushing (I think is one of two rubber things in the carrier of the M696) Two - invert the aloy spacer (I don´t know if the left one or the rigth one :o ) Tree - remove a aloy spacer When I have all the info I will inform you all. So, go for the ST rear Wheels [thumbsup] Oh, don't forget the pics!! Title: Re: Other Ducatis' wheels fit on the 696? Post by: Big Troubled Bear on May 06, 2009, 02:19:58 AM Hot News [evil] Wheel will fit without any machining [thumbsup] I´m just waiting for confirmation from a Spanish. He told me already 3 guys with M696 install the rear wheel from a Ducati ST. Only 3 little things to do and the wheel fit as standart [bow_down] He sent me a e-mail with the "How.to" One - remove a rubber bushing (I think is one of two rubber things in the carrier of the M696) Two - invert the aloy spacer (I don´t know if the left one or the rigth one :o ) Tree - remove a aloy spacer When I have all the info I will inform you all. So, go for the ST rear Wheels [thumbsup] Please let me know as I have just sent my standard wheel in for widening, as I didn`t want to machine any parts and the widening is only gonna cost me 140 dollars [thumbsup] Title: Re: Other Ducatis' wheels fit on the 696? Post by: pjfa on May 06, 2009, 03:48:55 PM @ Big Troubled Bear - I will [thumbsup]
For keeping the issue hot, here a view of the technical manual... (http://img15.imageshack.us/img15/7379/rearwheel.png) I guess the rubber part to take out will be the number 27; Maybe invert the aloy spacer number 22 with the 25 and... maybe take off one aloy spacer number 17 (they are two) ;D Here is my bet [laugh] Title: Re: Other Ducatis' wheels fit on the 696? Post by: pjfa on May 07, 2009, 04:59:00 AM @ Big Troubled Bear - I will [thumbsup] For keeping the issue hot, here a view of the technical manual... (http://img15.imageshack.us/img15/7379/rearwheel.png) I guess the rubber part to take out will be the number 27; Maybe invert the aloy spacer number 22 with the 25 and... maybe take off one aloy spacer number 17 (they are two) ;D Here is my bet [laugh] It seems I´m not a great gambler [laugh] So... number 27: off Number 4 near carrier: off Other number 4 near disc: reverse it But, I need a final confirmation on this issue because the info was: 27 and 4 out and turn the other 4 ;D So, still waiting for news but, we are close [thumbsup] Title: Re: Other Ducatis' wheels fit on the 696? Post by: pjfa on May 07, 2009, 10:26:08 AM It seems I´m not a great gambler [laugh] So... number 27: off Number 4 near carrier: off Other number 4 near disc: reverse it But, I need a final confirmation on this issue because the info was: 27 and 4 out and turn the other 4 ;D So, still waiting for news but, we are close [thumbsup] Ok, latest news ;D The mood should be as my last answer: - remove part 27 and 4 (carrier side) - reverse part 4 (disc side) That´s it [thumbsup] So, I think I go for the BT 016 [coffee] But before, I have to paint the rim black as the front whell. Anybody knows the color code? Title: Re: Other Ducatis' wheels fit on the 696? Post by: junior varsity on May 07, 2009, 02:33:01 PM Probably ought to powdercoat. Also, go on and get a 90 degree valve stem for the rear too, it makes checking air pressure much easier.
Title: Re: Other Ducatis' wheels fit on the 696? Post by: peanut_man on May 07, 2009, 06:37:43 PM Ok, latest news ;D The mood should be as my last answer: - remove part 27 and 4 (carrier side) - reverse part 4 (disc side) That´s it [thumbsup] So, I think I go for the BT 016 [coffee] But before, I have to paint the rim black as the front whell. Anybody knows the color code? pics? Title: Re: Other Ducatis' wheels fit on the 696? Post by: Big Troubled Bear on May 08, 2009, 03:37:22 AM It seems I´m not a great gambler [laugh] So... number 27: off Number 4 near carrier: off Other number 4 near disc: reverse it But, I need a final confirmation on this issue because the info was: 27 and 4 out and turn the other 4 ;D So, still waiting for news but, we are close [thumbsup] I don`t want to sound stupid ??? But number 4 is a bearing, can`t ride without it ??? [bang] Title: Re: Other Ducatis' wheels fit on the 696? Post by: pjfa on May 08, 2009, 04:29:45 AM Yes, is a bearing but, the carrier (21 and 19) will do the work as the parts 22, 17 and 20. Title: Re: Other Ducatis' wheels fit on the 696? Post by: pjfa on May 19, 2009, 04:41:47 AM Hi All,
Just come back from the shop [coffee] Fresh news... The mesurements are in cm ;D Size of wheel from M696 is 22,3cm (all included - as you take it off from the swingarm) To fit a ST rear wheel into a M696 bike: - remove 27; - machine a washer with: inner diameter 30, outer diameter 33 and 1,5mm large (to equilibrate the missing part 27 and avoid having the rear sprocket flange with some play); - keep the part 25 for when you sell the M696 with 4.5" rear; - part 22 take place of part 25, and put the new washer in the part 22. Hope you understand the explanation, is very simple to do and only need a new washer ONLY if you want to avoid some play of the rear sprocket flange. (http://img15.imageshack.us/img15/7379/rearwheel.png) Next week I hope have all done (washer, wheel paint black, marchesini stiker, red wheel stripe and 180/55-17 BT 021) Title: Re: Other Ducatis' wheels fit on the 696? Post by: w7ck7d on May 22, 2009, 02:51:16 PM nice..im thinking about doing this ..maybe cheaper than the 5 spoke aftermarket rims
Title: Re: Other Ducatis' wheels fit on the 696? Post by: pjfa on May 28, 2009, 03:25:08 PM Washer is ready.
I will pick up the wheel next monday at painting shop. Carbon Trader already sent me the Marchesini stickers and the wheel stripe arrive soon [coffee] (http://img41.imageshack.us/img41/5866/dsc06252.jpg) (http://img16.imageshack.us/img16/3905/dsc06253g.jpg) (http://img39.imageshack.us/img39/3389/dsc06251e.jpg) (http://img38.imageshack.us/img38/8501/dsc06254k.jpg) (http://img40.imageshack.us/img40/6853/dsc06250s.jpg) Title: Re: Other Ducatis' wheels fit on the 696? Post by: Raux on May 28, 2009, 09:55:31 PM Washer is ready. I will pick up the wheel next monday at painting shop. Carbon Trader already sent me the Marchesini stickers and the wheel stripe arrive soon [coffee] (http://img41.imageshack.us/img41/5866/dsc06252.jpg) (http://img16.imageshack.us/img16/3905/dsc06253g.jpg) (http://img39.imageshack.us/img39/3389/dsc06251e.jpg) (http://img38.imageshack.us/img38/8501/dsc06254k.jpg) (http://img40.imageshack.us/img40/6853/dsc06250s.jpg) ok for all you people living in America... name that coin ;) Title: Re: Other Ducatis' wheels fit on the 696? Post by: causeofkaos on May 29, 2009, 07:34:03 AM im gonna guess 1 euro
Title: Re: Other Ducatis' wheels fit on the 696? Post by: pjfa on June 08, 2009, 04:47:44 AM (http://img211.imageshack.us/img211/8973/dsc06372.jpg)
(http://img194.imageshack.us/img194/9760/dsc06387.jpg) (http://img261.imageshack.us/img261/5886/dsc06392o.jpg) (http://img41.imageshack.us/img41/9053/dsc06383.jpg) (http://img211.imageshack.us/img211/4108/dsc06364.jpg) (http://img87.imageshack.us/img87/3226/dsc06379c.jpg) (http://img208.imageshack.us/img208/1267/dsc06382d.jpg) (http://img198.imageshack.us/img198/4858/dsc06380b.jpg) (http://img198.imageshack.us/img198/8981/dsc06423r.jpg) (http://img196.imageshack.us/img196/5961/dsc06421.jpg) (http://img4.imageshack.us/img4/7213/dsc06432u.jpg) (http://img4.imageshack.us/img4/2392/dsc06367x.jpg) (http://img269.imageshack.us/img269/9558/dsc06422g.jpg) (http://img194.imageshack.us/img194/3217/dsc06378v.jpg) (http://img20.imageshack.us/img20/4825/dsc06425.jpg) (http://img20.imageshack.us/img20/3916/dsc06408.jpg) (http://img518.imageshack.us/img518/9980/dsc06363l.jpg) (http://img241.imageshack.us/img241/1342/dsc06405n.jpg) (http://img26.imageshack.us/img26/8227/dsc06381t.jpg) (http://img192.imageshack.us/img192/3339/dsc06434.jpg) (http://img241.imageshack.us/img241/92/dsc06397.jpg) (http://img291.imageshack.us/img291/900/dsc06399.jpg) (http://img196.imageshack.us/img196/5322/dsc06377r.jpg) (http://img44.imageshack.us/img44/1064/dsc06417.jpg) (http://img241.imageshack.us/img241/6645/dsc06366k.jpg) (http://img192.imageshack.us/img192/4242/dsc06402.jpg) (http://img194.imageshack.us/img194/9026/dsc06414.jpg) (http://img26.imageshack.us/img26/5490/dsc06404j.jpg) (http://img291.imageshack.us/img291/7404/dsc06433.jpg) (http://img44.imageshack.us/img44/9089/dsc06369.jpg) (http://img38.imageshack.us/img38/6389/dsc06390l.jpg) (http://img192.imageshack.us/img192/1550/dsc06426b.jpg) (http://img291.imageshack.us/img291/8531/dsc06416.jpg) (http://img176.imageshack.us/img176/1861/dsc06427.jpg) (http://img265.imageshack.us/img265/341/dsc06374.jpg) (http://img176.imageshack.us/img176/4924/dsc06375.jpg) (http://img36.imageshack.us/img36/2125/dsc06431f.jpg) (http://img196.imageshack.us/img196/7489/dsc06370.jpg) (http://img29.imageshack.us/img29/6343/dsc06430b.jpg) (http://img193.imageshack.us/img193/1432/dsc06420t.jpg) (http://img140.imageshack.us/img140/3738/dsc06389.jpg) (http://img190.imageshack.us/img190/5476/dsc06429j.jpg) (http://img32.imageshack.us/img32/7173/dsc06400g.jpg) (http://img188.imageshack.us/img188/4052/dsc06428.jpg) (http://img189.imageshack.us/img189/9171/dsc06406.jpg) (http://img36.imageshack.us/img36/3735/dsc06407p.jpg) (http://img29.imageshack.us/img29/8339/dsc06365l.jpg) (http://img194.imageshack.us/img194/1667/dsc06403w.jpg) (http://img44.imageshack.us/img44/3360/dsc06376.jpg) (http://img37.imageshack.us/img37/4181/dsc06413.jpg) (http://img194.imageshack.us/img194/7717/dsc06411m.jpg) (http://img32.imageshack.us/img32/6558/dsc06424y.jpg) (http://img193.imageshack.us/img193/3694/dsc06419b.jpg) (http://img37.imageshack.us/img37/4084/dsc06409k.jpg) (http://img36.imageshack.us/img36/3036/dsc06412l.jpg) (http://img29.imageshack.us/img29/5126/dsc06415o.jpg) (http://img194.imageshack.us/img194/7429/dsc06398d.jpg) (http://img44.imageshack.us/img44/4775/dsc06393x.jpg) (http://img36.imageshack.us/img36/2927/dsc06396n.jpg) Title: Re: Other Ducatis' wheels fit on the 696? Post by: peanut_man on June 08, 2009, 06:05:37 PM Hmmmm... well, certainly detailed pics, but is there any procedure associated w/ those pics? :D
Title: Re: Other Ducatis' wheels fit on the 696? Post by: pjfa on June 09, 2009, 01:05:18 AM Hmmmm... well, certainly detailed pics, but is there any procedure associated w/ those pics? :D Yes there is [thumbsup] So, this must be a "HOW TO" [coffee] (I already open a new thread: http://ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=25054.0 (http://ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=25054.0)) (http://img15.imageshack.us/img15/7379/rearwheel.png) First Remove the "old wheel" (13) ;D Switch the disc (15) to the "new" wheel. (http://img193.imageshack.us/img193/1432/dsc06420t.jpg) Then, remove the sprocket carrier (21) and take off the rubber thing (27) and the washer (25) ;D (http://img32.imageshack.us/img32/6558/dsc06424y.jpg) Insert the washer (machined with inner diameter of 30mm and 1,5mm wide - the outer diameter is 33mm but can be more) inside the part 22. Keep the coin to take a coffee after the assembly [coffee] (http://img16.imageshack.us/img16/3905/dsc06253g.jpg) (http://img20.imageshack.us/img20/3916/dsc06408.jpg) (http://img194.imageshack.us/img194/7717/dsc06411m.jpg) Now, the part 22 (standart comes from inside to outsite) will take place in the sprocket carrier (21) (http://img36.imageshack.us/img36/3036/dsc06412l.jpg) Pic a nice tire and mount it ;D (In my case a Continental ContiSportAttack) (http://img291.imageshack.us/img291/8531/dsc06416.jpg) Put the wheel on place and... That´s it [thumbsup] (http://img198.imageshack.us/img198/8981/dsc06423r.jpg) Have fun [moto] |