I may be a MSF Ridercoach this summer in VT, and I have been thinking about the kind of things that are not generally taught in Basic course that may be useful to a beginner rider. So, what is the collective wisdom for "the one piece of advice/information I wish I had as a new rider that I had to learn the hard way"?
for me (i'll list two): 1-use the rear brake and avoid the front brake while turning slow on gravel or it (the front brake) will lock it up and you may tip over;
2-when heading down hill before entering a turn be sure to slow enough by braking before downshifting or the rear wheel may lock up when you let up the clutch, and scare the shite out of you.
The Mods may move this, but I posted it here because I though I would get the most advice...
Thanks,
Slash
Look where you want to go.
IE, opposite of target fixation...
Do not, ever, underestimate the effect of summer heat on you when you ride. Bring/consume plenty of water before rides on hot days.
fail people that need to fail
I hated the fact that everbody in my class passed.
most everybody in the class talked about owning big assed v twins and spent two days dropping 250s because they had no clutch/brake skills
When in doubt gas it.
Learn to anticipate traffic movements. Practice all the time, not only when you're on your moto. Most accidents, and even close calls, can be avoided by paying attention to what is going on around you, and learning to anticipate people's stupidity actions.
This is actually a riding techniques thread...so I think it should be moved. The moved notification is as good as a thread here. ;) That said I'll leave it for now.
My advice to any rider would be...the motorcycle will go where you look...so look where you want to go.
edit...Nick beat me to it.
never trust whitey
Quote from: Ishmael (aka bp) on April 29, 2009, 03:36:20 PM
never trust whitey
I'm pretty red after the past two days at the track...
you must mean Nick...
or yourself. ;D
Ride YOUR ride. Don't feel pressured to keep up with the group.
This is my advice - Go big or go home!
J/K. This is what I meant to say - Respect the power of your bike.
Quote from: Pedro-bot on April 29, 2009, 03:46:12 PM
Ride YOUR ride. Don't feel pressured to keep up with the group.
I'm a relatively inexperienced rider, but could go on for days with this topic.
The quote above is a great one, which I would extend to bikers in general - ignore what you've seen bikers do, seen on video, or read about - ride within your ability. This will probably feel rather tame. Then remember what you saw, or read about, often ended in tears :(
go get professional riding instruction on a track as soon as you are comfortable on the bike instead of waiting a few years. I know that's not actual course hints, but I wish someone encouraged me to do it sooner and Gwendy is glad she went after one summer riding.
Read this entire article:
50 Ways to Save Your Life (http://www.motorcyclistonline.com/howto/122_0608_50_ways/index.html)
By Motorcyclist Magazine
Adam
Quote from: Statler on April 29, 2009, 04:24:05 PM
go get professional riding instruction on a track as soon as you are comfortable on the bike instead of waiting a few years. I know that's not actual course hints, but I wish someone encouraged me to do it sooner and Gwendy is glad she went after one summer riding.
+11ty billion.
It is better to learn the "right way" than to try to fix old habbits.
The two things that have really saved my Arse in the last 30k miles or so are...
Pratice your swerving... I had to use this several times with nasty road debree and or cars cutting you off.
Also always have a nice cushion between you and the cars in front and to the left and side of you. Ride in a Staggered formation always so in case a car cuts you off you have time to react. When I pass a Car I always hang to the opposite of the lane the car is in just Incase he/she trys to change lanes during the pass which has also happend to me.
Crashes are going to happen always wear your gear.
Yeah...that reminds me of sooooo much stuff I just take for granted now....
never ride directly in back of a semi.
never ride right next to any vehicle..stagger...which usually means riding slightly faster than traffic to be aggressively defensive.
don't stop in the middle of the lane where all the oil drips at lights, stopsigns, tolls, etc. and watch your right foot on those same slippery areas.
heavy rain is better than light misting which just brings up all the oils...riding in heavy fog was some of the slipperiest riding I've ever done.
paint, manhole covers, and some patchwork is slick, but they are good for practicing avoidance....if you look at them you go over them...if you look where you want to go around them you don't.
slip your clutch, keep your throttle up, and drag your rear brake/slip clutch more for smooth turns from a stop to ensure correct lane placement instead of either running wide or chopping the throttle and jerking.
don't look at the ground when turning sharp slow corners...look up allways.
damn....so many more...and I don't remember 20 years ago what is in the basic msf course.
Quote from: Speeddog on April 29, 2009, 03:29:16 PM
Look where you want to go.
IE, opposite of target fixation...
+1
1. Ride dirt bikes. I've been riding them for 37 years, and nothing that happens on the road surprises me, or freaks me out.
2. If you aren't focused, you aren't riding well. If you don't feel that your attention is up to par on a certain day, park it.
3. Ride every day. Practice, practice, practice. Ride in the rain. Ride when it's cold. Ride when it's hot. Get a lot of seat time and wear out bikes. You can always buy another.
4. Don't drink and ride. Don't ride with people that are drinking. I know some of the Harley crowd, and they go bar hopping, ride, drink, ride, drink, ride, drink and so on. Not too smart really. I won't ride with anyone that even has 1 beer. I don't need some dumbass running into me because he only had 1 or 2 beers. If you're drinking, I'm outta there. I know a lot of alcoholics that think they can handle 1 or 2 beers and ride well, but have fun by yourself, because I'm not bailing your ass out of jail, or getting your bike out of impound if you get arrested for it.
5. Personally, I ride very aggressively. I don't mean 137 mph (that's how fast an S4 is supposed to be able to go, according to the thread) everywhere I go, I attack the road. Elbows up, head down, I don't let cars get close enough to spear me, I don't ride near cars or trucks, if I'm going by, I do it as fast as possible so they can't hit me even if they try, what I mean by that is I spend a minimum amount of time near them, I don't go by at 125 or anything, I make my move so I'm in the clear as quickly as I can. Any time I'm riding, I consider it practice. Paying attention to the bike, how it's working, if the tires are slipping around, is it running right, I think it boils down to #2, focus. I never just putt around looking at the little birdies. But, that's just me, do what you feel comfortable doing.
6. Don't ride with idiots.
7. Ride with people that ride better than you do. Get some tips, and watch them.
8. Go to a riding/racing school. Not necessarily a track day, although those are fun, too, but something like Keith Code, or Freddie Spencer, but I think they just shut down.
There are a lot of good tips out there. Oh yeah, I almost forgot. Don't put fringe on your levers.
Don't be so excited to get off your bike at the bar or in the garage for whatever reason that you are so cool you hop off, and forget to put the sidestand down. Seen that before. [shakes head in disgust]
Cleaning your bike is the best way to see something wearing that's not supposed to. That either means quit cleaning so you don't know something is about to break and you get an exciting surprise, or its a great way to do less expensive maintenance, rather than more expensive repair. I think the pre-ride inspection is "ok", but really getting to know the machine is better.
It is never too hot to wear a good protective jacket. Its really not. 100 degree Memphis days with >100% humidity and it still wasn't too hot. 110+ degree Dallas days. Still not too hot.
The bike that's for sale that says "NEVER DROPPED, ADULT RIDDEN" is actually neither. Sure there may have been an adult in the saddle, but that's now how he rode it, and it most certainly has been dropped, even if just in the garage.
Good gloves make a pretty big difference in comfort. Proper fitting gloves make a pretty big difference in comfort. Combine the two and happy hands will equal a happy rider.
Since you are more likely-than-not going to crash, and upon doing so, land on your face with your palms out to brace yourself, its a good idea to have both of those places protected (face and palms). Have rosy palms for another reason, not roadrash. And an open face helmet is asking for a future nose job and jaw replacement.
dress nice look good
Only one piece of advice?.....Motorcyclist mag's number 11
11. Left-turning cars remain a leading killer of motorcyclists
Don't assume someone will wait for you to dart through the intersection. They're trying to beat the light, too.
Oh, another:
Never trust a green light. Don't gas it through the intersection the minute the light changes or proceed blissfully through an intersection just because you have a green light. Sure you had the right away, but you might also get run over.
'You. Are. Invisible."
They need to understand that. No one told me.
Quote from: Speeddog on April 29, 2009, 03:29:16 PM
Look where you want to go.
IE, opposite of target fixation...
+1
I believe that this one skill should be practiced until it's more than a habit. The faster I ride the more it applies. Even split second distractions from where you want the bike to go change your direction, big time.
Quote from: ato memphis on April 29, 2009, 06:42:49 PM
The bike that's for sale that says "NEVER DROPPED, ADULT RIDDEN" is actually neither. Sure there may have been an adult in the saddle, but that's now how he rode it, and it most certainly has been dropped, even if just in the garage.
I beg to differ. While I agree that most bikes advertised as such may stretch those claims a bit such bikes do exist. My very own Gixxer 750 is such an example. It has never seen the ground except for the bottom of the kickstand and while it hasn't been babied it hasn't been abused either. Whoever buys mine will get a primo machine.
Be observant, they are out to kill you [thumbsup]
Quote from: mac900 on April 30, 2009, 12:32:59 AM
I beg to differ. While I agree that most bikes advertised as such may stretch those claims a bit such bikes do exist. My very own Gixxer 750 is such an example. It has never seen the ground except for the bottom of the kickstand and while it hasn't been babied it hasn't been abused either. Whoever buys mine will get a primo machine.
Oh no, I fully agree there are exceptions, I'm talking about that one particular ad that tries to overemphasize it. "Thou doth protest too much" and all.
One thing the MSF taught me that is important/useful: SEE (Search, Evaluate, Execute).
A key thing for me is to not only be aware of what's going on around me, but also be cognizant of how others may or may not be aware.
Case in point, a motorcycle is small and often fast moving, which means it's harder to see. Understanding that even adequate drivers are going to have a greater difficulty immediately seeing me and recognizing my course and velocity keeps me from making moves that may surprise them, or entering into situations where they won't see me until it's too late.
It's a take on the "ride like you're invisible and everyone is trying to kill you" philosophy without so much judgement against drivers of cages.
even though they suck ;D
Quote from: DrDesmosedici on April 29, 2009, 04:28:08 PM
Read this entire article:
50 Ways to Save Your Life (http://www.motorcyclistonline.com/howto/122_0608_50_ways/index.html)
By Motorcyclist Magazine
Adam
And now that I read this, it should definitely be included. Some exceptional advise in that article.
My experience today just to vent, and my piece of advice.
I was riding to work, coming up to a red light, lady driver with few passengers at the light signaling to take a right. so I pulled up to the light next to her. it is just me and her at the light. i look back while waiting, she is still there, and it seems like she was asking a bicyclist some directions. I was skeptical when the lady clearly signal, and had not turn. green light, she took off, cutting me off. I held back and took it easy, but i bit angered. thought about many things i could have done to give her a piece of my mind, but kept on going.
so the key is always keep your cool, and angry rider is not a safe one. save your venting for the your DMF brethren.
two, be aware of the other drivers, especially (I want to say ladies, but don't want to upset other great lady drivers out there), and worst ladies on a cell phone, that's another story.
Assume nobody can see you.
Off-the-shelf blue jeans are not armor.
Quote from: yamifixer on April 30, 2009, 09:04:28 AM
Assume nobody can see you.
make everybody see you ;)
Quote from: DrDesmosedici on April 29, 2009, 04:28:08 PM
Read this entire article:
50 Ways to Save Your Life (http://www.motorcyclistonline.com/howto/122_0608_50_ways/index.html)
By Motorcyclist Magazine
Adam
I read that and found it helpful. However, when I ride I doubt all fifty are going around in my head. Most people have A.D.D. I could pick ten of the most important, but the more one can retain the better.
As for the question at hand, ONE piece of advice that I think is the most helpful, seems to apply all the time. I see this mistake every week end. More riders eat pavement and gravel because of it, and believe me "gravity is a harsh mistress." Its number thirty on that fifty list safety reminder.
Stay in your comfort zone when you're riding with othersRiding over your head is a good way to end up in the ditch. Any bunch worth riding with will have a rendezvous point where you'll be able to link up again.
Assuming you are invisible is paramount. All the other tips, people will pick and choose what suits them best. But testosterone and machismo always seems to get the better of every man. I would go so far as to say women go down for various other reasons (please -no- innuendo) But guys, week in and week out its because they are out to prove something to whomever for whatever...
RIDE TO YOUR OWN ABILITY NOT SOMEONE ELSES !
Lots of great advice already mentioned. [thumbsup]
I was already familiar with being invisible and dealing with traffic from my bicycle commuting experience, but one thing that was not covered in MSF that I wish had been was dealing with slopes & cambers. Starting, stopping, turning when the road is sloped and/or cambered. You can't practice that in a flat parking lot.
look way ahead, you'll be ready for the unexpected
+11ty billion to riding your own ride
Advice - Ride in the safe manner you were taught and not ride like everyone else. Don't pick up bad habits just to fit in with the group.
Advice - This is meant for regular riders and not for racers, stunters and other extreme riders, but if you believe in the saying, "There are two types of riders...those who have dropped their bike and those who will.".....You will probably drop your bike because you taught your mind that you will. There is no reason why anyone who rides safely and responsibly must experience laying down their motorcycle. Of course, if you are a racer or a stunter, you increase the risk and make it more possible.
Advice - cars and trucks are bigger and heavier than you and your bike and can cause damage resulting in the rider's death. Give cars and trucks the right-of-way even if you are in the right, because you'll lose the argument.
Advice - even if it is legal to split lanes where you are....DON'T...it's unsafe. Ride in traffic like you would if you had a bigger vehicle and don't try to weave in and out between cars because you can on a smaller bike.
Advice - beware of a$$holes on cell phones
Advice - YOU ARE INVISABLE ON A MOTORCYCLE, BUT YOU ARE NOT INVINCIBLE.
Quote from: Duki09 on April 30, 2009, 12:53:10 PM
Advice - even if it is legal to split lanes where you are....DON'T...it's unsafe.
The CHP would disagree with you.
There are at least two occasions where traffic on the freeway stopped, I split lanes, and the SUV behind me ended up embedded in the vehicle in front of me. Without lane splitting, I wouldn't be here today.
Quote from: Duki09 on April 30, 2009, 12:53:10 PM
Advice - even if it is legal to split lanes where you are....DON'T...it's unsafe. Ride in traffic like you would if you had a bigger vehicle and don't try to weave in and out between cars because you can on a smaller bike.
Lane splitting (lane sharing) is not the same as weaving in and out between cars. I agree that weaving in and out between cars is unsafe.
Quote from: silentbob on April 30, 2009, 01:07:44 PM
The CHP would disagree with you.
There are at least two occasions where traffic on the freeway stopped, I split lanes, and the SUV behind me ended up embedded in the vehicle in front of me. Without lane splitting, I wouldn't be here today.
Plus it can cut your exposure time on a busy road in half or more. Safer to be splitting for 20 minutes than sitting next to angry commuters stuck in traffic for an hour. In places where it's legal some motorists might expect it too which could cause some issues for motorcycles who choose not to. I have to agree with Siltenbob on this one.
Lane splitting. I do it every day. Don't do it unless the cars are side by side. They won't change lanes into each other, but they will into a bike by itself. If you are splitting lanes, ride with your high beam on. They can't tell if you are the police or not. They will give you room. I also ride a gear higher, keeping the revs up, just in case I need to jump on it to get around something, and also keep a couple fingers on the front brake. And once again, focus. Don't look into the cars you're going past. Scan in front of you.
And one other thing. I heard some old guys, at least older than I, saying how they "laid the bike down" to avoid a crash and slid it underneath a big truck trailer, would have been killed if he hadn't "laid 'er down". This is all bullshit. That is what a front brake is for. If someone gets into a panic situation, and locks up the back brake and the bike starts sliding sideways, that guy isn't a very good rider, or is afraid of the front brake. The front brake is your friend. Practice with it. About the only time I use the rear is turning the bike around in the dirt.
Stay alert, stay alive.
1 - Counter-steering ... a totally counter-intuitive and foreign concept if you're new to bikes. I remember my MSF instructors using the phrase, but I don't remember them giving a proper explanation of it. I figured it out by reading about it here.
2 - show them how to fill-up the gas tank on a bike - i.e. use your hand to pull back the spring-loaded cover around the fuel pump, or it won't work. again, not intuitive if you've got no bike experience. i had to have a gas station attendant show me. pretty much eliminated any feelings of "coolness" i had from pulling into the gas station on my new duc. let my embarassing tale spare others ...
Quote from: Duki09 on April 30, 2009, 12:53:10 PM
Advice - even if it is legal to split lanes where you are....DON'T...it's unsafe. Ride in traffic like you would if you had a bigger vehicle and don't try to weave in and out between cars because you can on a smaller bike.
One, I'm assuming you are not in CA. I would think this lane sharing envy. Plus, here in CA I have heard California Highway Patrol and other law enforcement agencies state otherwise... Many rear end situations tend to happen in heavy traffic and at traffic lights.
Two, Weaving in and out of traffic is wrong no matter what you ride or drive, so I agree with you there.
Quote from: Ishmael (aka bp) on April 29, 2009, 03:34:07 PM
fail people that need to fail
I hated the fact that everbody in my class passed.
most everybody in the class talked about owning big assed v twins and spent two days dropping 250s because they had no clutch/brake skills
So true, only three out of six passed my rider safety course. One of the three that failed would have probably been ok (lack of confidence), but the other two were complete idiots and didn't need to be near a motorcycle. (one actually totaled a Buell Blast in the HD parking lot).
Quote from: Ishmael (aka bp) on April 29, 2009, 03:34:07 PM
I hated the fact that everbody in my class passed.
most everybody in the class talked about owning big assed v twins and spent two days dropping 250s because they had no clutch/brake skills
So, a big bad-ass V-twin, 800 lbs, 65 hp, doesn't really equal bad-ass. I forgot about the chrome, fringe, and ape hanger handlebars. I guess that does make someone a bad-ass.
" I hated the fact that everbody in my class passed."
Why worry about what other people are doing? Ride your own bike. I guess that would qualify as advise. I know some guys that obsess on what other people are doing, the "chicken strips" on other peoples tires at Starbucks or what ever, whether they are wearing full leathers and an $800 helmet, what kind of boots someone else is riding with. I've actually heard the comment, I won't ride with someone that isn't wearing full gear. Like I said, Ride your own bike. The only people that I won't ride with are on drugs or alcohol.
note that it does suck for insurance rates for the rest of the riding community when an idiot gets on a bike and crashes.
As my poor broken friend Andrew Trevitt and I totally agree - you can not take your focus from what is in front of you ....even for a second.