Ducati Monster Forum

There is a 20mm difference in rotor size between these two bikes' rotors.  Does anyone know if the S2R 1000's brakes (calipers and rotors) will bolt up to my S2R 800?

Yes.  The 320mm rotors coupled with the 65mm mount spacing 4-piston/2-pad calipers will bolt right on (stock brake set-up off of an S2R1000).

dontcha need a new master too?

You don't "need" one.

Thanks guys...duck-stew...any opinion on the necessity of a new master for this setup?

You can run the one you have on there but because it's smaller bore (IIRC), it will require more lever movement in order to actuate the 4 pistons than it does to actuate the 2 pistons you have now (that's a per caliper count).

The difference is not as great as going from single disc to dual disc on the older bikes.  As Stew said, the travel will be longer, but hey, give it a try, you might like it.

Last question, does anyone know if there is a difference b/w the S2R 1000 setup and the golden braking upgrade offered by Ducati?

Nope, just the color...

i've been trying to figure out what I need to switch from coffin masters to the remotes, and I'll be honest, only because they look better and there's more aftermarket levers for the remote-style.  my wallet says to do it cheaply and keep the same calipers, but I can't seem to figure out what masters/lever combo works with my calipers... bah.

This is easier than you are thinking.

What is your caliper setup?

If you have a single front caliper, you can get a 16x18 Brembo Radial Front Master
If you have two front calipers, you can get either a 19x18 or 19x20 Brembo Radial Front Master. There is a new series from Brembo out now that allows you to order one caliper and choose whether you are in a x18 or a x20 mood. The difference is "feel" and abruptness of braking action.

Then you just get some brake reservoir tubing and the reservoirs you like. You can get inexpensive, easy to replace and see through (easy to check the level) brembo reservoirs, or more bling Rizoma reservoirs. If you get the Brembo's, you can replace the caps to Rizoma Caps or several other manufacturers' billet caps so you don't have corrosion issues.

Check eBay or the parts classifieds here regularly for deals on the Goldline Masters. My 900 came with a set back in the day, sold 'em off on the DML parts list (prior to the existence of the DMF) when I switched to the Radial masters.

Not a lot of rocket science to brakes. You squeeze at the lever, it displaces fluid, the further it pushes the fluid, the further the calipers move the pads toward the rotors. Brake fluid is a (near) incompressible fluid, so you squeeze here, it squeezes there. if your master does squeeze a lot of fluid (say the 16x18) then using it to move the fluid in two calipers would be less effective then the 19x18. right on?

The only tricky stuff, and its not really that tricky if you know what you got - is the rotor & caliper offset. Older calipers are also interesting in that they went through a series of changes - started as 40mm single pin, and changed to 65mm two pin. The pistons are the same size though at 30/34.

Here's the short list off the top of my head for the Brembo Calipers using a traditional "axial" mount (vs radial mount):

Single or Double Pin Goldline Calipers, traditional mount - 40 mm offset or 65 mm offset

There's  the non-goldline 2-piston models that are set up for the 300mm rotors, and the everything else that are 4 piston and are setup for the 320's. OEM Brembo Calipers can be had from Yoyodyne (http://www.yoyodyneti.com/Category.aspx?CategoryID=3001)

I think the radials are setup for 330mm, but I have no bike with that kind of setup to look at.

Lastly is the rotor's bolt setup: 5 vs. 6 bolts. All the Duc's I've come across are 6 bolt, but that doesn't mean that there's a line out there that I didn't notice came equipped with something different.

The bore x stroke was my first stumbling block.  Someone said "look on the bottom and find the number, then get masters that match."  Well, try as I might I couldn't find it on the bottom of my masters.

I have the 65mm axial mount dual front calipers.  I did have a guy once tell me "those are nice brakes" when I first got my bike but i was (and still am) pretty ignorant to the subtleties of ducati part sourcing.  They're the gold colored brembos, but other than that.. /shrug.

I always figured a radial master would only work with radial brakes.  again, my own ignorance.


Andy

Not a big deal - its confusing nomenclature, here's the quick rundown:

Radial Calipers - One mount on top, one mount on bottom of caliper. They "span" the caliper, holding it on either end. See recent superbikes, and most japanese superbikes. Slightly more rigid than linear, you might never feel the difference though.
Axial Calipers - The mounts are both on one end. 40mm vs. 65mm are your general options in calipers, and don't worry if one day you want to replace yours and some fancy monoblock billet brembo's catch your fancy and they are the wrong offset. Its not a big deal, the appropriate offset mount adapters are available.

These connect to your brake lines via a banjo bolt. The brake lines do one of three things:

- Seperately run up to the master cylinder and connect to a dual-banjo bolt. Requires two lines, and more room to run cable.
- Run separately up to a "manifold" connection somewhere near your triples, and then a single line runs to the banjo bolt at your master cylinder (most stock monsters).
- Run a short distance and join at a T-junction and then go all the way up the banjo bolt at the master.

At the master, you've got the brake line or brake lines coming in at the banjo bolt. Two (err.. three or four?) options are available:

1. Brembo axial piston with coffin (built-in) reservoirs (has mirror mounts)
2. Brembo axial piston with external reservoirs (like the goldlines) (has mirror mounts)
3. Brembo radial piston (OEM) with external reservoirs (unlikely to have mirror mounts - 749/999 masters is an example)
4. Brembo radial piston (GP/RCS) with external reservoirs (no mirror mounts)

When you squeeze the lever on an axial master, the piston is compressed along the same direction as your bars. With the radial, the piston is squeezed in the same direction as the squeeze motion, towards you.

Improving brakes' performance can be done a step at a time to improve performance:
Cheapest to most expensive:
Flush Hydraulics
Flush Hydraulics, new brake pads
Flush Hydraulics, new brake pads, braided lines (especially if yours are gettin' old)
Upgrade Master Cylinder for better feel (often requires new lines because the banjo fitting will need to be at a different angle)
Upgrade rotors. Top of the line is carbon $$$$$$$$. Iron is supposed to have great feel and stopping power than stainless. No FHE comparison, so you are on your own in choosing there. Any of these often have lighter weight carriers which is nice as well.
Do the whole schebang: calipers & rotors, master, lines, pads, and of course, new fluid.

Double check, but I believe either DOT 3, 4, or 5.1 is good to go in your system. If you put regular DOT 5 in, you are supposed to go kill yourself immediately afterward.

Flush hydraulics in brake fluid once a year, to keep the stuff in there a nice clear liquid (when its getting cloudy, its definitely time to change) and that keeps things feeling good. Some brake fluid comes gold-ish colored, and others if clear (like Motorex 5.1).

You can pull out the bleeders on the calipers and replace them with Speedbleeders to make the process of bleeding faster and easier. My technique on the MightyVac must suck, because I wasn't near as fast with it as I am just using regular ol' Speedbleeders. Its super easy, once they are on, affix a tube connected to waste cup, open them a 1/4 to 1/2 turn, and just pump the lever, adding fluid to make sure the brake (or clutch) reservoir doesn't go dry, and pull air into the system.

If you've never observed the process of how the reservoir works, its pretty easy, when you release the lever from "squeeze", if there is any void in the line (say, from you pushing fluid out the bleeder at the caliper during a brake fluid flush) it pulls in some fluid to replace that. So, when you release the handle, that's when it pulls in stuff, not during the squeeze motion.

bahahaha, i said "quick". whoops.

yeah that was a lot of reading... I know the theory of brakes and how they work, but the interchangability of parts is what gets me.  Seems like it's all smoke and mirrors from the mfg...

going back a post or three...

i'm on a 04 620 with 2 calipers on the front.  So you're saying I could get a radial master with either of those stroke measurements, bolt it on, run new lines to the calipers and I'd be done?  well, throw reservoirs in there.

Well, if you've got single piston calipers, then investing in a upgrade would probably be worthwhile. The price of a cast "GP" radial master or a take-off 749/999 (eBay) radial master is low enough that its worth a try to see if you like the feel. The parts are all resell-able (though if you put fluid through it, not returnable).

I don't see why it wouldn't work, but I haven't done it myself to give you a confirmed "yes" answer.

You can measure and order your own lines and fittings directly from Spiegler and they are great to work with. They also vend some non-peecup reservoirs as an alternative to Rizoma, and they have all the appropriate fittings. Whenever I have a question about what I need/want, I give them a call. Very fast and helpful.

Andy, can you post a picture of your brakes?
If you have an S2R800, and the calipers are GOLD, it sounds like someone already did a brake upgrade on your bike.
Chances are it now has the GOLDline brakes... which include 65mm axial mount GOLD calipers up front, each with FOUR pistons, TWO pads. Also would include 320mm rotors with a Gold snowflake looking center. And probably a larger bore coffin-style master.

The STOCK S2R800 brakes have coffin masters, 300mm silver rotors, and 65mm axial mount BLACK calipers up front, each with only TWO pistons and TWO pads.

A pic would help confirm what exactly you have.

But from the sounds of it, you already have upgraded brakes compared to the stock S2R800 setup.

The only difference between the goldlines that i THINK you have, and the S2R1000 brake setup, is the color.

749, 999, and 848 have 5-bolt

Ah, same for 1098?

Not sure.

andy, i now see you weren't the original poster, and are on a 620, not an S2R800.
from what i understand, however, some of the EARLY 620's DID come with goldline brakes, rather than the crappy 2piston/300mm setup up front.
plz post pics so we can confirm...

up to early '05, the 620s had the 4 pot brakes (and metal tank), it was apparently a running change through that MY.

i lucked out, as mine was an early build 05  [thumbsup]

yeah, its really hard to make a hardline generalization about a particular model and what came with it. They are parts-bin specials. My M900 has an aluminum swingarm, 3-way adjustable showa forks from the S model, but the really horrendous boge-sachs shock. Its an "S" without all the parts, so they labeled it a standard M900, and I lucked out.

Its not too unusual for others to report getting something better than normal by luck on their bike.

so I've had time to look into this some more.  I'd still like to upgrade my master cylinders to get more lever and handlebar options.
when I look in the techincal manual I see this:


and here's what the front looks like: (thumbs)
(http://img200.imageshack.us/img200/196/august2009020.th.jpg) (http://img200.imageshack.us/i/august2009020.jpg/)(http://img190.imageshack.us/img190/6018/august2009019.th.jpg) (http://img190.imageshack.us/i/august2009019.jpg/)

I feel dumb asking all this, but I can't seem to get 2 and 2 to make 4. 

you've got the same brake setup as mine... 4 piston calipers, coffin masters.

I got these (http://www.motowheels.com/italian/myproducts.cfm?parentcategoryid=116%7CDucati%20Brakes&productID=694&showDetail=1&categoryID=119|Brake%20Master%20Cylinders&vendoridtodisplay=0&filterFor=&collection=168%7CEuropean%20Motorcycle%20Parts) master cyls, which did seem (to me) to give better braking performance... not like substantial, but noticable difference.

which, looking at specs, the 996 master has a 1mm larger piston than the monster coffins.


radial masters will still be the 'best' choice, but swapping out for the goldlines did make a difference. and I didn't need to swap lines, either, so it's still the cheaper, 'bolt on' option

My M900 came with those goldline masters shown in Teddy's post.

They are 'good'. There's notable advantages to that setup over the coffins.

You could go ape shit, as I did, and opt for some radial masters. The cast model of the Brembo 'GP' radial 19x18 or 19x20 isn't that expensive. I'm not sure the pricing on the new RCS line, but I imagine its more than the cast 19x18, which is a real bargain.

Here's the issue, you'll face: They don't make an inexpensive cast clutch master. They only make a billet. So to have 'matching'-ish masters (both radial) you'll be forced to shell out some REAL dough. And then you'd still have a cast and a billet, so not a perfect match. (I quit caring about matching right about now). To 'fully' match, you'd have to go billet and billet and that's damn near a fortune.

What's a similar option, uses the goodness of used parts, and the classifieds/eBay is the SBK 'radial' setups. I think they are very good, almost as good as the 'GP' Brembo lineup, and they can be had for relatively inexpensive off crashed bikes or other parted out rides on eBay or in the classifieds. Sooooo, be on the lookout for the 999 and newer series brakes as well.

Another advantage to going with OEM equipped masters, is the fancy lever companies will make aftermarket squeezers for your paws. No such luck with the 'GP' lineup. You have black, or you have folding black, but if you want bling, you are going to have to do some thing else.

I know an advantage of switching to gold-lines from coffins is not having to change brake lines but, its worth mentioning that going to a Spiegler braided line setup is inexpensive, improves lever feel (by not flexing or expanding as tired factory lines may do), and can look however you like it to. If your bike is a little older, it may have a 'manifold' in the middle of your triple setup, to split the lines down to the front calipers. This is pre T-junctions in brake lines, or if not, its leftover parts from then. Either way, it sucks nuts. I've used Spiegler numerous times (I know there are other available fancy lines out there) and have always had a great experience. See also: a bajillion color options.

yeah that's what I was hoping to do, but I wasn't sure what would just bolt on without needing new lines, new calipers, blahblahblah.


thanks everyone.

in the way of radial masters....
you can pick-up a new or used Yamaha R1 MC ...its a Brembo!

sorry to revive an old thread, but I didn't want to have to explain too much back story

I've been keeping my eye out for some new MCs to swap out my coffins and I came across these today http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Brembo-pump-for-Ducati-999R-clutch-and-brake_W0QQitemZ120521275420QQcmdZViewItemQQptZMotorcycles_Parts_Accessories?hash=item1c0fa0b81c (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Brembo-pump-for-Ducati-999R-clutch-and-brake_W0QQitemZ120521275420QQcmdZViewItemQQptZMotorcycles_Parts_Accessories?hash=item1c0fa0b81c)


Anyone know if that, or something like it, would go onto my 620 without too much grief?


Thanks
Andy

I'd guess new lines at the least... oh, and a solution for your mirrors, unless you already have barend types...

If you are worried about the amount of brake lever travel at the master cylinder, there is an easy fix. Use two different brake lines from the stock s2r800 master cylinder. I have two new lines one for each caliper and the brake lever travel is actually far less than the stock system. Easy to make and if anyone needs measurements for the front end I have fitted let me know. I have the DP showa fully adjustable front end which is longer than the stock s2r800 front end.
BGB
(http://i50.tinypic.com/30m2ybm.jpg)

Those 999 levers/masters look damn good on my bike.  That's all I know  8)

What are those risers for the clipons you have (sorry to derail\necro the thread)

Those look like the Speedymoto Tall Boys.
http://www.speedymoto.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Category_Code=TB (http://www.speedymoto.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Category_Code=TB)
(http://www.speedymoto.com/Merchant2/graphics/00000001/08-0250BLK_Down_lg.jpg)