Had some issues with the CO/fuel. Took the bike to the local Ducati dealership, said it was off, and the throttle bodies were out of synch. Also, the chain was loose as they just replaced it in February. I picked up the bike last Friday, had the clutch issue. Problem solved. Fast forward:
Installed 2 new NGK R plugs, correct part/ Seemed to be running like a champ. But, even before I changed out the plugs, it seemed to be missing that whipping neck feel. Almost there, but not there. Follow me?
I rode the bike 400 miles from Nashville to Jackson, Miss. Bike seemed to be running fine, but I was loaded down with a back pack, and on the interstate, so I couldn't play around. Filled it up 3 times on the ride down.
Went out for a quick ride tonight, gas light comes on, I stop, fill it up. I romped on it a bit on the way home. Feels like it's lagging just a hair. I didn't ride the bike for almost 3 weeks. But I was thinking to myself. Maybe I've gotten use to the bike.
That thrill in the seat just seems to be missing. I even wondered with all this Ethanol in gas, if maybe that's the issue. I had the belts replaced, but not the valves adjusted. What are the chances that the work the Ducati shop did has changed again?
I mean what would cause the CO/fuel system etc to keep changing itself? I still smell gas in the exhaust, and had one backfire on the way down from Nashville. Also had one pop in the throttle body. I just want this bike fixed, and not be the money pit it is becoming. I'm not raw hiding the thing to death.
Well hell, I'll go first! [laugh]
For starters I would check the condition of the air filter, replace/clean as needed.
Then, circle back with the shop to verify the cam timing is correct (after belt change) & reset the TPS & CO once more.
Run thru a tank with some high quality fuel cleaner in it (seafoam, JB or the like)
That being sorted and if you still have issues. I would look to the air temp and coolant temp sensors as these are the major "input" values for the ECU to compute the "mix".
Thanks for your reply. I just cleaned the BMC a few weeks back. I will pick up some cleaner and try that. When I get back, I'll take it back to the shop. They should recheck it since they completed the work, right?
The Sea-Foam can go right in the tank?
Seems like too many problems for a new bike, although it happens often with the 1st generation of a new model. It's under warranty, no? Take it to the dealer and have them make it right.
Could be a fuel filter issue.
Or, fuel lines in the tank.
Those can make the running quality change at a quick rate.
Both of those would make it go lean, though, so likely not the issue from your description of how it's running.
Could be a cam timing issue, or a belt tension issue.
Both of those can be checked by removing the belt covers, which is pretty easy.
Well, getting the middle cover off is a bit of a 'zen puzzle'.
BTW, which plugs did you put in?
And how do they look now?
it's an 01' S4. I may just buy a new 848 or 696. Still trying to decide.
Quote from: Speeddog on May 08, 2009, 10:03:15 AM
Could be a fuel filter issue.
Or, fuel lines in the tank.
Those can make the running quality change at a quick rate.
Both of those would make it go lean, though, so likely not the issue from your description of how it's running.
Could be a cam timing issue, or a belt tension issue.
Both of those can be checked by removing the belt covers, which is pretty easy.
Well, getting the middle cover off is a bit of a 'zen puzzle'.
BTW, which plugs did you put in?
And how do they look now?
I've had the belt cover off, belts looked tight. I put the NGK R plugs in. Like I said, bike seemed to be running great, till on the way home. Can you fill up the tank too much and cause I sensor to trip? I filled almost to the top. What about Ethanol? I've heard some rumblings about the additive.
Specifically, which plugs?
Could be the ethanol, could you switch to a known non-ethanol fuel?
Belts looking tight and being properly tight are 2 different things.
Cam timing could be off.
If the bike still has the emissions canister, overfilling can cause running issues, but not likely across the whole powerband.
Quote from: Speeddog on May 08, 2009, 10:16:27 AM
Specifically, which plugs?
Could be the ethanol, could you switch to a known non-ethanol fuel?
Belts looking tight and being properly tight are 2 different things.
Cam timing could be off.
If the bike still has the emissions canister, overfilling can cause running issues, but not likely across the whole powerband.
NGK DCPR8E. The canister has been removed as far as I can tell. Would be near the rear panels correct?
Proper plugs for S4:
Denso Iridium IXU27
Champion RA59GC
NGK doesn't make a correct plug AFAIK, but if I had to use one, it's be a DCPR9E, but I haven't tried it, so YMMV.
i'm using the DCPR8E in my s4r....though mine is popping like mad. maybe i need to score some different plugs and try that out. would the Denso Iridium IXU27 or Champion RA59GC be appropriate for the s4r as well?
Quote from: Speeddog on May 08, 2009, 01:12:47 PM
Proper plugs for S4:
Denso Iridium IXU27
Champion RA59GC
NGK doesn't make a correct plug AFAIK, but if I had to use one, it's be a DCPR9E, but I haven't tried it, so YMMV.
Where can I score some online? None available locally.
Champions site: http://www.championsparkplugs.com/results_appOther.asp?otherMotiveID=15101&mfid=2 (http://www.championsparkplugs.com/results_appOther.asp?otherMotiveID=15101&mfid=2) Not the same model number as you mentioned
Not sure of an online source.
Make sure the Denso have the removable terminal, S4 coils require just the threaded nub.
You should be able to get the Champions from Ducati Seattle, kinda pricey the last I checked. :-\
I added a link to the Champion plugs. So what's the difference?
I'm not sure what the difference is between the Champion and Denso.
I've had good luck with the Champions in my S4.
No, what's the difference between the expansive Champion Ducati sales vs. the $5 plug Champion sales?
The NGK crossover is a DCPR9E. I use the DCPR10EIX (Iridium, one range colder for my mods) in my RS. Awesome plug! Takes much less power to fire it and the increased kernel exposure is noticeable.
The DCPR8E you are using is actually a hotter plug than required. If the bike is modded at all you should be going to a colder plug....if you ride it hard at all.
Dunno what the difference is.
Last time I looked, the Champion wasn't available other than through Ducati.
Seems the situation is different now.
Current status on the plugs:
Both the Champion RA59GC and NGK DCPR9EVX are discontinued. Champions still exist as the inventory hasn't sold out.
Replacements are NGK DPR9EIX-9 or Denso IXU27. Both are Iridium plugs. The NGK is $2 cheaper but requires an 18 mm socket to install. The Denso plug is 16 mm hex but the trusty old 5/8" spark plug socket is a sure fit. It also fits the cheapie tube that's under the seat. Both are readily available on line. PlugClub will have both.
I don't know the value of an Iridium plug but I figure an Iridium comet only hits the planet once every couple million years so we might as well take advantage of it. ;D
Quote from: fouramdesigns on May 07, 2009, 10:41:22 PM
Had some issues with the CO/fuel. Took the bike to the local Ducati dealership, said it was off, and the throttle bodies were out of synch. Also, the chain was loose as they just replaced it in February. I picked up the bike last Friday, had the clutch issue. Problem solved. Fast forward:
Installed 2 new NGK R plugs, correct part/ Seemed to be running like a champ. But, even before I changed out the plugs, it seemed to be missing that whipping neck feel. Almost there, but not there. Follow me?
I rode the bike 400 miles from Nashville to Jackson, Miss. Bike seemed to be running fine, but I was loaded down with a back pack, and on the interstate, so I couldn't play around. Filled it up 3 times on the ride down.
Went out for a quick ride tonight, gas light comes on, I stop, fill it up. I romped on it a bit on the way home. Feels like it's lagging just a hair. I didn't ride the bike for almost 3 weeks. But I was thinking to myself. Maybe I've gotten use to the bike.
That thrill in the seat just seems to be missing. I even wondered with all this Ethanol in gas, if maybe that's the issue. I had the belts replaced, but not the valves adjusted. What are the chances that the work the Ducati shop did has changed again?
I mean what would cause the CO/fuel system etc to keep changing itself? I still smell gas in the exhaust, and had one backfire on the way down from Nashville. Also had one pop in the throttle body. I just want this bike fixed, and not be the money pit it is becoming. I'm not raw hiding the thing to death.
Sounds like a bad tank of fuel to me.
bugger, i like the dcpr9evx. altho they had the large terminal, whereas the dpr9eix has the small thread, which is what i would use a s4 or s4r.
might have to try that denso. wonder if bursons have it.
found this bit of denso deciphering - http://www.clubplug.net/denso_sym.html (http://www.clubplug.net/denso_sym.html)
or even better - http://www.spark-plugs.co.uk/pages/technical/densojpg.htm (http://www.spark-plugs.co.uk/pages/technical/densojpg.htm)
Quote from: brad black on May 11, 2009, 05:41:32 PM
found this bit of denso deciphering - http://www.clubplug.net/denso_sym.html (http://www.clubplug.net/denso_sym.html)
or even better - http://www.spark-plugs.co.uk/pages/technical/densojpg.htm (http://www.spark-plugs.co.uk/pages/technical/densojpg.htm)
Be careful here. I found a .pdf file on the Denso website listing most bikes including Ducati but the listing for my bike (s4rs) is WRONG. The reference calls for the IU27 as shown on the links but the actual plug is IXU27. The difference is the thread diameter. The IXU27 is a 12mm thread, 19mm reach with a 16mm hex. To the best of my calculations and cross-reference abilities this is the correct plug for s4rs. Other ducs with non-testastreta engines may require the 10 mm thread.
To replace the Champion RA59GC or NGK DCPR9EVX you nee the Denso IXU27 or NGK DPR9EIX-9.
Is it just me or do the Denso numbers somehow sound like birth control devices? [thumbsup]
Quote from: fouramdesigns on May 08, 2009, 01:51:13 PM
Where can I score some online? None available locally.
Sometimes the answer is so simple it eludes us.
http://www.ChampionSparkplugs.com/Default.asp (http://www.championsparkplugs.com/Default.asp)
Quote from: dlearl476 on May 12, 2009, 06:55:05 AM
Sometimes the answer is so simple it eludes us.
http://www.ChampionSparkplugs.com/Default.asp (http://www.championsparkplugs.com/Default.asp)
Yeah that's great. They list the ra59gc for $8.83. The iridium NGK is $7.83. So for a mere $2 more you can keep your bike stock rather than accept the upgrade. As for me I've already made too many mods to go back so she's not going to end up in any museum.
Quote from: dlearl476 on May 12, 2009, 06:55:05 AM
Sometimes the answer is so simple it eludes us.
http://www.ChampionSparkplugs.com/Default.asp (http://www.championsparkplugs.com/Default.asp)
That link is broken. Champion's site redirects to this site when trying to buy their parts online: http://www.sparkplugs.com/Automotive-c134.aspx?Brand=Champion (http://www.sparkplugs.com/Automotive-c134.aspx?Brand=Champion)
Quote from: fouramdesigns on May 08, 2009, 01:51:13 PM
Where can I score some online? None available locally.
Champions site: http://www.championsparkplugs.com/results_appOther.asp?otherMotiveID=15101&mfid=2 (http://www.championsparkplugs.com/results_appOther.asp?otherMotiveID=15101&mfid=2) Not the same model number as you mentioned
Same with this part: http://www.sparkplugs.com/product.aspx?zpid=8550 (http://www.sparkplugs.com/product.aspx?zpid=8550)
before worrying about spark plugs the FIRST thing to replace is the FUEL FILTER its a classic problem in S4 when slightly blocked with dirt / grit and scum from gasohol , I have seen this issue many times ,, makes the bike run lean and seem to lack punch .
haha
I'd guess that after 5 years he either solved the problem or got rid of the bike! :)