Ducati Monster Forum

well, i might as well do all of 'em...  ;D

Schedule (left coast times)

Friday, 15 May 2009
125 FP1   03:40 - 04:40
MotoGP FP1   04:55 - 05:55
250 FP1   06:10 - 07:10

Saturday, 16 May 2009
125 FP2   00:00 - 00:40
MotoGP FP2   00:55 - 01:55
250 FP2   02:10 - 03:10
125 QP   04:00 - 04:40
MotoGP QP   04:55 - 05:55
250 QP   06:10 - 06:55

Sunday, 17 May 2009
125 WUP   Sat-23:40 - Sun-00:00
250 WUP   00:10 - 00:30
MotoGP WUP   00:40 - 01:00
125 RAC   02:00
250 RAC   03:15
MotoGP RAC   05:00

looks like its' going to be a wet race   [popcorn]
It's been raining all week.

it's a 2009 requirement that all MotoGP events involve at least some rain

This sucks.  70% chance of rain Sat and 60% Sunday. 

maybe rain will help Nicky out a lil

ya, I think I heard him in an interview actually want it to rain.
Any help at this point.

Makes me pucker watching the race though

pucker this:  http://ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=23730.msg418345#msg418345 (http://ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=23730.msg418345#msg418345)

MotoGP Free Practice Nr. 1 Classification
Pos.   Num.   Rider   Nation   Team   Motorcycle   Lap time   Km/h   Gap
1   4   Andrea DOVIZIOSO   ITA   Repsol Honda Team   Honda   1'36.136   282.574   
2   27   Casey STONER   AUS   Ducati Marlboro Team   Ducati   1'36.194   287.846   0.058
3   14   Randy DE PUNIET   FRA   LCR Honda MotoGP   Honda   1'36.293   285.412   0.157
4   7   Chris VERMEULEN   AUS   Rizla Suzuki MotoGP   Suzuki   1'36.301   274.529   0.165
5   3   Dani PEDROSA   SPA   Repsol Honda Team   Honda   1'36.476   274.181   0.340
6   46   Valentino ROSSI   ITA   Fiat Yamaha Team   Yamaha   1'36.751   285.865   0.615
7   99   Jorge LORENZO   SPA   Fiat Yamaha Team   Yamaha   1'37.024   265.878   0.888
8   33   Marco MELANDRI   ITA   Hayate Racing Team   Kawasaki   1'37.024   281.763   0.888
9   65   Loris CAPIROSSI   ITA   Rizla Suzuki MotoGP   Suzuki   1'37.224   280.446   1.088
10   5   Colin EDWARDS   USA   Monster Yamaha Tech 3   Yamaha   1'37.269   269.058   1.133
11   24   Toni ELIAS   SPA   San Carlo Honda Gresini   Honda   1'37.270   266.403   1.134
12   52   James TOSELAND   GBR   Monster Yamaha Tech 3   Yamaha   1'37.738   263.994   1.602
13   36   Mika KALLIO   FIN   Pramac Racing   Ducati   1'37.800   271.016   1.664
14   59   Sete GIBERNAU   SPA   Grupo Francisco Hernando   Ducati   1'37.875   279.286   1.739
15   69   Nicky HAYDEN   USA   Ducati Marlboro Team   Ducati   1'38.032   279.503   1.896
16   15   Alex DE ANGELIS   RSM   San Carlo Honda Gresini   Honda   1'38.323   268.123   2.187
17   72   Yuki TAKAHASHI   JPN   Scot Racing Team MotoGP   Honda   1'38.639   275.019   2.503
18   88   Niccolo CANEPA   ITA   Pramac Racing   Ducati   1'39.116   258.311   2.980

Not so far.

...it was a relatively dry session.

Look at Marco go! Right there with Jorge. Way to go Marco!  [thumbsup]

Oh wait...I could care less about Marco.  ;D

The session was half wet and half dry.  I really wish Nicky could get a buncha dry laps on the Duc.

All the Ducs takin' up the rear 'cept for Stoner.  <sigh>

what would happen if Nicky switched bikes with Casey?

Unfortunately Casey would have them make a few adjustments and go fast...

and Nicky would...

struggle.

I don't know why.

about the same.  you can tell from the top speeds of the Pramac bikes, even the satellite machines are getting the 'good' stuff...

the problem here (good problem, on the one hand) is that they found the proverbial lightning in a bottle with the 800cc bike and casey.  bigger problem.. that they are now more fully acknowledging.. is that it's only that 1 dude who can ride the thing.  and they have 5 bikes on the grid.  possibly 7 if/when king kenny and MGM get their deal worked out.

If it goes like '08 (and '07, and '06) races in the rain, then Rossi's almost assured the win...

Saw something on the web about Casey using old electronics and/or software, whether it's true, who knows...

Looks to be a good race.  Qualy was pretty competitive. 

sete is out... Gibernau fractures collarbone in Le Mans crash (http://www.motogp.com/en/news/2009/Gibernau+breaks+collarbone)

(http://www.rideontwo.com/gallery/d/65843-2/P20090515123100937.jpg)

QUALIFYING

1   3   Dani PEDROSA SPA Repsol Honda Team Honda   1'33.974 281.763 
2   99   Jorge LORENZO SPA Fiat Yamaha Team Yamaha   1'33.979 282.205 0.005
3   27   Casey STONER AUS Ducati Marlboro Team Ducati   1'34.049 289.699 0.075
4   46   Valentino ROSSI ITA Fiat Yamaha Team Yamaha   1'34.106 291.183 0.132
5   4   Andrea DOVIZIOSO ITA Repsol Honda Team Honda   1'34.300 283.986 0.326
6   5   Colin EDWARDS USA Monster Yamaha Tech 3 Yamaha   1'34.330 278.207 0.356
7   7   Chris VERMEULEN AUS Rizla Suzuki MotoGP Suzuki   1'34.676 280.446 0.702
8   65   Loris CAPIROSSI ITA Rizla Suzuki MotoGP Suzuki   1'34.839 283.464 0.865
9   33   Marco MELANDRI ITA Hayate Racing Team Kawasaki   1'35.008 281.984 1.034
10   14   Randy DE PUNIET FRA LCR Honda MotoGP Honda   1'35.399 290.322 1.425
11   24   Toni ELIAS SPA San Carlo Honda Gresini Honda   1'35.431 281.323 1.457
12   52   James TOSELAND GBR Monster Yamaha Tech 3 Yamaha   1'35.524 278.350 1.550
13   69   Nicky HAYDEN USA Ducati Marlboro Team Ducati   1'35.682 279.286 1.708
14   36   Mika KALLIO FIN Pramac Racing Ducati   1'35.741 278.278 1.767
15   72   Yuki TAKAHASHI JPN Scot Racing Team MotoGP Honda   1'35.774 283.093 1.800
16   15   Alex DE ANGELIS RSM San Carlo Honda Gresini Honda   1'35.785 278.925 1.811
17   88   Niccolo CANEPA ITA Pramac Racing Ducati   1'36.136 274.879 2.162

Not classified
 59 Sete GIBERNAU SPA Grupo Francisco Hernando Ducati   Lap

c'mon Nicky

well, he's the fastest non-casey ducati again.. still at the bottom of the sheets tho.

Consistantly 1.5-2 seconds off the pace the whole weekend.  Its pretty heartbreaking to watch tbh.

http://superbikeplanet.com/2009/May/090516rydern2.htm (http://superbikeplanet.com/2009/May/090516rydern2.htm)

Meanwhile, Dani Pedrosa surprised everybody, including, he suggested, himself, by snatching pole position at the last moment. As Rossi said, '...if that's the bad Honda that the riders are complaining about, when it gets good we're in the s***.'

wow... what a race!

lorenzo, melandri, pedro....

WTF happened to Stoner, and Rossi?? 

I'd ask about Hayden, but I have a good idea where he finished.   :P

I'm working this afternoon so no race watching for me.   [bang]

edit:

I see Stoner finished 5th and Hayden 12th.

Did Rossi crash out?

whatarace indeed  [thumbsup]

gotta love live timing, it helped watch this one.

rossi was in the pit's 3x plus a ride through for speeding in pit lane
if i recall correctly...
once to change from rain tires to slicks, then he crashed right after his change.
the second time, to switch back, so they could fix his bike.
the third time for a ride through for speeding on one of the previous visits
and the fourth to switch back to his repaired bike.

wow.

WTF?!

Just looked at the results.  :o
Got to see this...


can I just point out the top 6 :  who!?! :o so close. What a season!

World Championship
Pos.    Rider    Nation    Team    Points
1    Jorge LORENZO    SPA    Fiat Yamaha Team    66
2    Valentino ROSSI    ITA    Fiat Yamaha Team    65
3    Casey STONER    AUS    Ducati Marlboro Team    65
4    Dani PEDROSA    SPA    Repsol Honda Team    57
5    Marco MELANDRI    ITA    Hayate Racing Team    43
6    Andrea DOVIZIOSO    ITA    Repsol Honda Team    43

Lorenzo really strategized that race well.  Rossi gambled and lost.. then had a nightmare day.  Awesome for Melandri finishing ahead of all the Ducs on the grid, and hell yeah about the standings.   [thumbsup]

That was a movie I saw on SpeedTV today, wasn't it?    [popcorn]

Couldn't happen like that in real life...musta been in France or some place like it....

NO HE DIDN'T...he said that he couldn't see his pitboard and then all of the sudden he saw Pit-in on his board...

http://www.superbikeplanet.com/2009/May/090517rydernotes.htm (http://www.superbikeplanet.com/2009/May/090517rydernotes.htm)

"... Meanwhile Jorge Lorenzo was steaming off the front of the pack, but suffering from the minor problem of not being able to see his pitboard. So he stayed out on wets, and stayed out, and ended up stayed out longer than anyone. He thought about coming in, but 'I trust the team.' By lap eleven he finally saw the 'In' board and pitted with a 50-second lead. He left with a 20-second lead and no-one got near him...."


his team I guess finally made it visable enough for strategy purposes...but it wasn't exactly his strategy....he'd never done this drill before and therefore had no basis or strategy...you could tell in post interview by how he talked about it...

I saw the post race and yes he'd never done it before.  He said nothing about his pit board issue in post race.

Pardon me...  LORENZO SUCKS!  That better?

umm...sure...but I don't think he sucks...and he is surely proving to be a better competitor for Rossi than Pedro-bot...and he gives a better and less scary post race interview...but all that aside, I am just not willing to give him strategy credit for how things transpired, especially in light of this being his 1st time doing that...you can't exactly plan for that when "feel" is the key and your in the front droning out lap after lap in a rythem with no one to contend with you...it becomes a game of where do I feel like this is spent enough that it is time to go in and change...or until your team tells you to come in because you haven't guaged how far past the limits you are or may be....in fact, I wouldn't be surprised if a Bridgestone tech guy told his team, after looking at other tyres that previously came in, to get his ass in before something catastrophic occurs....not that we'll ever hear that...but it wouldn't surprise me.

the main concern in using a rain tire in drying conditions is loss of grip due to overheating the tires. racers will generally find puddles to run through in order to cool the tires.

lorenzo's two fastest rain tire laps were the ones right before he pitted to swap bikes:

http://resources.motogp.com/files/results/xx/2009/FRA/MotoGP/RAC/analysisbylap.pdf (http://resources.motogp.com/files/results/xx/2009/FRA/MotoGP/RAC/analysisbylap.pdf)

That was a weird race.  Lorenzo rode well but got lucky.  His inexperience with the rain/dry change-over and inability to see his board paid off.

The championship points make it seem like MotoGP is more interesting than it is.  Other than the last round, there hasn't been a lot of good racing.  The fact that the championship is wide open makes it more interesting, but I still crave more close racing.  I'm getting spoiled by WSBK.

Can we all get together and do an anti-rain dance?  I'm sick of this shit.

P.S. Melandri is a bad-ass.  A. BAD. ASS.  Kawi better step up and give that guy some go-fast bits.  It's also good to see him redeem himself after that disastrous year on the Duc. 

"lucky" might be a little strong.

the way events unfolded did work out to his favor, but if you look at his lap chart (linked above), his tires were doing fine.

the f1 guys have had a lot of practice over the years (decades, really) tweaking and tuning various pit strategies in both the dry and the wet. motogp hasn't had that, uh, luxury....

"deep" runs on wet tires in drying conditions, like lorenzo's, will help teams perfect their rain strategies moving forward.

That's fair.

Lorenzo rode really well.  It wasn't genius strategy that won it though.  In contrast, Rossi tried to strategerize and got make the beast with two backsed up as a result. I'm not sure what's the lesson to be learned.

well, rossi learned what "too early" was, and lorenzo pushed the outer boundary of "too long" based on everybody else's race.

in fact, given melandri's pace, he would've had to scrap with him for the win if he'd waited one more lap to pit.

+1 Ducati should be asking themselves WTF happened last year.

I also agree with the MotoGP season being really interesting on paper...too bad the races have been somewhat of a let down so far.  :-\ Lots to go though!  [thumbsup]

wasn't just last year..

pretty sure they're still asking WTF.

yup...Ducati is asking WTF...that's why they got data from Bayliss in testing recently for exactly that purpose....to answer that question and get back on track.

According to this (http://ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=23342.0) he didn't have any magic pills for them though.

Time will tell.

they didn't say anything outright...but they alluded to the idea that they are getting a clue/handle on how to maybe overcome some of the problem....I honestly think it is a combination thing...that there is no 1 thing they need to do, per individual circumstance...just a question of figuring out how to make it so that they can do the right combinations to make things work...but I am just guessing....

That's all any of us are doing.

Except derby.

He knows. [cheeky]

True...although Melandri seems to be doing better this year than any other ex-Duc 800cc riders, right? On a bike that isn't getting any development!

I seriously think Kawasaki is cursed. Save for 600cc AMA (and possibly other obscure series), Kawasaki just can't compete consistently with the other manufactures. Once they clean their hands of the GP bike, it starts to do great. Maybe the lack of their involvement is a good thing.

hacking was making some decent progress with the bigger ninja in ama superbike last year.

it's it's not like the hayate effort isn't a bunch of ex-kawasaki motogp staff. hell, king kenny said  that the zx-rr was actually a good bike in need of a good rider. it seems that he was right.

I suspect Melandri's got a lot of rage in a bottle from last season.
Glad he's putting it to good use.

+1.  i would say better than decent.  they/he were really starting to figure that bike out.

also, WSS is not an obscure series.  lascorz is doing quite well there.

Suppo says he's happy that Melandri is doing well.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/75407 (http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/75407)


 

he's still in denial about the reasons for meladri's lack of sucess on the gp8:

The Ducati boss believes Melandri is showing that he is better suited to being in an underdog situation.

"He needed different motivation and no pressure," Suppo said. "At this moment he has no pressure because he's on a bike that nobody believes is a good bike, but maybe it is.

"Not being made to do a comparison with a team-mate is a totally different situation for him. I'm personally happy for him that he's doing well."

Probably a quasi-graceful way of not referencing any bike problems. I don;t know if that means he's in denial, it may just be his press strategy.

"He needed different motivation..."

uh huh.  like a bike that was somewhat rideable.

you could argue that he had motivation to get a factory ride when he was winning on the gresini bike.  but still, he was running up front and winning sometimes, '05/'06.  and he was certainly motivated when he stunned the laguna grid in '07, performing like he did with a broken ankle.  the race that, ironically, cemented his ducati ride for '08.

Suppo's harsh.  In another article on autosport.com, he said Casey is less of a whiny child than he was last year, and that Nicky is far behind where he should be and needs to get his mojo back.   We also heard him speak last year.  He said that Rossi in his book lied about his discussions with Ducati in order to save face.  Man, that guy sure doesn't have a problem sharing his opinion. 

...and you do? ;)

I have no problem with that.

I remember something like rossi is a pregnant dog and we were not gonna kiss his ass.

I'm a fan of suppo.

I wasn't complaining at all.  Just observing.  I find it refreshing.

notice how whatever Suppo says carries more weight and goes further than what Puig says?!?!?!

geee, I wonder why? could it have anything to do with integrity?!?!?!

Kinda figured...

Well...

yes.

Suppo works for a living.

Puig is a gravy sucking pig.  ;)