Ducati Monster Forum

Today was our second trackday of the year and was again at Infineon with Keigwins just like last month...and just like last month, our trackday happened to fall on the 13th.  Last time out was my turn for the bad luck--sort of.  Second session of the day I went out and noticed a "ticking" coming from the bike.  Ticking very rarely means anything good on a bike and this was no exception.  A nut holding the rear sprocket had worked its way off the bolt and had dug a nice chunk out of my swing arm.  Enzo and I made the decision not to take the 400 out again, so I bumped down to B- group where there was a little room and ran Enzo's R6 all day.  I ended up really enjoying myself and learning a lot, but was concerned about my bike...

Fast forward to a month later.  I still hadn't worked out the problems with the rear sprocket nut coming off.  The causes of this were pondered by many people much smarter and way more experienced in wrenching than myself.  Everything from "it's just worn bolts" to "your entire bike might be out of whack" was tossed on the table.  Enzo and I ended up doing what we could here at the house and getting some new lock nuts for the rear sprocket and fixing the mangled swingarm.  After much discussion with "the experts" decided that I would run the bike today with caution as we felt that there are still some unresolved issues, but I really needed to ride the bike to figure out more. 

I was nervous all day yesterday and this morning.  My sleep was not sound--partly because we had to go to bed ridiculously early and partly because of my bike.  We had to get to the track an hour early today because of the AMA races coming up this weekend.  I'm usually not nervous prior and have gotten pretty used to the track routine at this point.  But everything was thrown off and my bike might blow up, and we have to park in a different spot than usual, and I'm still not used to riding Sears and, and did I have enough ice in the cooler to keep the mayonnaise on the sandwiches from going bad, and, and... needless to say I was "verklempt".

I suited up and went out for sighting laps with the B- group and didn't hear the ticking.  This was confidence-inspiring.  My turn-in points, braking markers and lines were working out pretty well on the 400, even though I'd been riding a 600 the last time I was here.  I began to feel the oneness with the bike again.  I basically hadn't ridden it since Fall of last year and now was trying to deal with a mechanical issue and a relatively unfamiliar track.  Still I was having a good time and feeling sold.  The bike felt as good as ever--I'd given her a little tune-up with the help of a friend over the winter.  Enzo had painted her for me and I feelin' pretty sharp out there. 

I came in and checked the bike.  All was well.  Enzo checked that all the bits were tight.  I checked that nothing was leaking, overheating, dragging or anything else that the bike has been prone to in the past.  check, check, check, check.  She passed with flying colors!  I was starting to relax a little and was anxious to get back out and ride with the B+ group.  My next sessions before lunch went really well.  We had a very small group riding on the track and nearly everyone in my group was faster than me.  Passing people is good for the ego, but getting a tow from someone quicker is much more valuable.  I found myself able to keep up with a few guys through portions of the track, but then I'd lose them down the straights when I would get passed by other riders.  There was a lot of close passing today, but I maintained my line and focused on being predictable and smooth.  I soon found that the close passing wasn't really a problem and other riders seemed to trust me enough to keep doing it more frequently as the day wore on.  Who knew that getting passed could hold a lesson in itself? 

I started noticing some trends in my riding and things I want to work on:  I tend to be good on the brakes--a benefit of my weight.  I tend to scream into corners when I want to pass someone and then turn in late.  That's probably not good from a throttle standpoint, but I discovered that in many corners that I could turn in ridiculously late and it worked out much better than the line I'd take if I weren't passing someone.  So next time I went around that same turn and I'd have clean track I'd try that new line--it's scary as hell passing one's perceived "last chance" turn in point to try and turn in later.  Even though I did this gradually and would always scrub a little speed off whenever I tried a new line, it still scared me.  I'm getting better about this and find that my lines are starting to look like the ones I see faster guys using.  I'm getting a better drive out of corners and that means everything on the little bikes. 

We took a break for lunch and my endurance and focus was still with me.  I have found that with every track season I'm able to go faster and last longer.  I used to be physically and mentally spent by 10 a.m.  Here it was noon and I felt like I was just getting warmed up!  Experience helps, but the biggest change happened when I started taking my fitness seriously.  I'm not a gym rat, but I put in a couple of hard workouts every week.  I know my body can take the beating and now I have 100% of my focus on the mental aspect of track riding.  Another thing:  sleep.  I can't emphasize the importance of sleep enough.  I force myself to get at least 7 hours of rest before a trackday.  I sleep whenever I can during the day, too.  Even a 15 minute catnap helps me. 

Heading out after lunch I was looking forward to working on a couple of specific turns.  My bike had been running like a top all morning and I was no longer worried that it was going to implode on me.  I had started getting my knee down pretty consistently in a couple of turns.  It's still a sensation that I'm not used to and I don't like it.  I hadn't made too many big errors in the day--I'd run wide here and there, but never got close to running out of track.  I'd not been as consistent about hitting my apexes as I'd wanted to be, but I'd been doing pretty well for me.  I had no idea what my times were because I don't run a laptimer, but I felt good out there.  I'd complained to Enzo that I didn't feel quite "right" all day, but that taking my time might be paying off in a big way.  I find that when I think I'm riding well or trying to be fast that I'm actually a little slower than on days like today. 

Meanwhile Enzo had been looking good all day.  I'd tried to keep up with with him, but couldn't.  He's on an R6,  but at Thunderhill when he wasn't feeling great I could stay with him for longer.  I was happy for him and was hoping that his two crashes from last year would be the last we'd have for a while.  Unfortunately unlucky number 13 was about to strike again.  On the second to last session of the day I came around turn 2 and see Enzo picking up his bike out of the dirt.  I was ecstatic--not because he'd crashed, but because he was OK.  Just a couple of weeks ago one of the instructors for Keigwins was paralized from the waist down in a crash during a race.  He was an accomplished rider with lots of experience and a nice guy to boot.  It was just one of 'those things" but I have been thinking about him periodically and have been selfishly thankful that Enzo and I have not suffered any permanent damage from a wreck.  (By the way, if anyone wants to know more or where they can send funds for his long and expensive recovery PM me.)

I decided to come in early and wait for Enzo.  I figured that my focus would be compromised if I were to stay out there, and that wasn't good.  The guy in the pit next to me said that his buddy hadn't come in yet either.  We waited nervously together.  Enzo arrived about 15 minutes later on foot.  He'd walked down the hill and although he and the bike were a little banged up, they were going to be OK.  About 45 minutes later the guy from the neighboring pit showed up.  He had gotten a flat tire and wound up pushing his bike all the way back.  I decided to go out and ride the last session of the day since we'd be waiting for Enzo's bike to get towed back to us.  It was a beautiful day and maybe half a dozen people ended up riding the last 20 minutes.  With the exception of Enzo's mishap it had been a great day with a lot of progress made. 

We head back out to Thunderhill in about six weeks for the two-day Intermediate School.  Lance Keigwin is in cahoots with Enzo and they're both trying to gently talk me into taking the new racers school so that I can race the AFemme class (It's a no-holds-barred, run-whatchya-brung exhibition race for women only) towards the end of the season.  We'll see.  I might need to run a lap-timer for that one just to see how slow I am. 

Am waiting for photos...will post when they come up.  [thumbsup]

Glad to hear E's OK.

Turn 2 bites a lot of people.

Sorry to hear about the crash, glad he's OK!

I really lucked out.  I had a classic turn 2 high side at the exit, but came out of it with only a sprained ankle and a bruise on my man-boob.  Bike looks good, too.  Only needs a new windscreen, more fiberglass for the upper and a brake reservoir.  I was hoping my pipe was crushed, but those damn stock pipes are bullet proof!

Glad you're ok E! [thumbsup]

Glad you're ok, E.  That seems to be one corner where people can highside and there's a good chance they'll just be bruised and sore as opposed to seriously broken.  Thank God you're the former and not the latter. 

You're not alone either.  That corner has claimed me, DTM, datv and tigre and others, I'm sure.

Yeah, I'm a total pussy on the gas coming out of 2, for just that reason.

That day that 'belle and I did in the rain, the rear end came around so far I was sure I was going to launch, but with the wet, it just gently came back into line. Save!

You and me both!  I did have a near-miss in 11 earlier in the day.  My tires are on their 5th day, so that might have been part of it... I was coming out at a pretty good lean and I gassed it.  Back end started sliding.  I figured that I was going to have a slow-speed slide and wasn't too concerned about trying to avoid it, so I just stayed on the throttle so as not to make it worse.  Suddenly the bike righted itself!  The guy pitted next to me said he saw the whole thing and couldn't believe that I'd save it.  Gravity took a momentary break there or something--it certainly wasn't my skill set that had anything to do with me not crashing.   [laugh]

Glad your ok E!

My gawd belle, i couldnt finish your entire post, i had to skip to the replies to read who crashed  [laugh] i need instant gratification or i go nuts.

I know...it be long.  Sawwee.   ;D

She's such a tease.

Maybe we will all learn from your high side Enzo,  [laugh]  Glad it wasn't worse, glad you're ok.

er - ya, I did what DTM did :P  Now I'll go read the rest.

Nice write up.

And glad you're okay E.

Nice write-up, Belle. Sorry to hear Enzo crashed, but that's awesome to hear your track bike is back in business (especially because it's looking so good now).

I really need to get off my butt and buy these things from GotBlueMilk...he's a good guy and takes great photos.   [thumbsup]

(http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o131/etoile_polaire/051309%20Sears/justme.jpg)

(http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o131/etoile_polaire/051309%20Sears/leaving.jpg)

(http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o131/etoile_polaire/051309%20Sears/racing.jpg)

http://gotbluemilk.com/web090513/101/index.html (http://gotbluemilk.com/web090513/101/index.html)    the belle's pic's. Heather you look very fast [thumbsup] Glad Evan is OK.

Just goes to show you, seeing isn't always believing, but thanks!  [laugh]  I was one of the slowest people in our group that day.  Generally I'm more in the middle.  Everyone riding out there with me looked really good--rrrreally good.  I think there were 2 or 3 people out of the entire group that I'd pass on a regular basis.  I set up my bicycle Garmin on the trackbike and am going to see if that worked as a laptimer.  It's the first time I've used that function on it, so we'll see how it went for me.  I was working on a couple of turns and trying different lines in the second half of the day. 

I used the little Garmin/GPS from my bicycle on the track.  Still struggling with getting it worked out, and it's not nearly as accurate as a real lap timer... I think one of my better times was around 2:06.  Enzo thinks he was closer to 2:00 so it sounds about right.  My top speed was 90 or 95 mph.  The cool part is that it recorded my exact route on every lap I did.  You can see where I passed people, my out laps, where I played with different lines.  I'll try to post up the "map" it recorded later. 

That would be awesome to see. I have a Zumo 450. Which are you using?

(http://gotbluemilk.com/web090513/101/images/MF1A6281.JPG)

So I tend to have my outer knee kind of poking up like this, too. I have ideas on how to correct for this, but what do others recommend? Should we be on tippy-toes? Rotate that foot more inwards?
(I don't mean to go too off-topic but since Belle does this too I'm hoping it's still appropriate to post here)

I struggled with the same question for a while.  Then I realized it's fine.  Don't do anything.  You'd probably have to seriously screw with the ergos of your bike to change it up.  As long you're locked off with your inner thigh and your foot placement is solid.  Even the motogp guys do it. 

(http://resources.motogp.com/files/images/xy/2009/MotoGP/n498840_DEPUNIET11.original.jpg)

Lorenzo's knee is way off

(http://resources.motogp.com/files/images/xy/2009/MotoGP/n498626_lorenzo_2_0.original.jpg)

 [laugh] [laugh]

I have a Garmin 205. 

I probably could be better about this.  Good on ya for noticing.   [thumbsup]  My bigger issue is that my toe drags whenever my knee does--like every time.  And I'm starting to get a knee down once in a while.  And if my toe is dragging my peg isn't far off.  Not good.  And I don't know how to fix that. 

Get off the bike more. Your not hanging off enough. or you just need some rearsets.

Look how far my outside knee sticks out, you could have made a pass through there. Ive noticed that a while back and worked with different body positions to try and fix but always went back to what was comfortable. If you scoot all the way back in your seat you can get it to close up on the tank. Its going to take a lot more leg strength to hold yourself in position with only your knee touching the tank. A lot less work to brace your inner thigh on the tank to hold you where you need to be.  I think the 250 makes it look a little exaggerated. Pictures of me on other bikes don't look that far out.

(https://www.garyratherphoto.com/AFM/2008/TH_Jul08/race_01/0807_1564.JPG)

(https://www.garyratherphoto.com/AFM/2008/SP_Sep08/race_10/0809A_2769.JPG)

Didn't Warren try that once?

he sure as hell tried.

So it seems to me like having your outer knee out on the outside is pretty dependent on the bike you're riding. With the MotoGP guys a small exception, I've started noticing people on more upright bikes like the Streetfighter, baby Ninja, and Monster tend to have riders donig this, while pure sportbikes tend to show riders hanging on with the knee moreso than the upper thigh.

I was just hoping this would help me point my inside knee out more. In some picture my outside knee sticks further out than the inside!  [bang]

Anyway, thanks for responses everyone. It sounds like it's not something to worry too much about.

Hey Belle, have you ridden your little 400 in B or A group? If you have (or anyone else who has done so on a smaller displacement bike) do you just get used to being passed up on the straights and find that other riders don't mind you getting in the way of their 1000's? I'm imagining moving up to B at some point and am wondering what to expect.
As long as you're lapping at an acceptable pace for the group do you just get used to passing and being passed by the same riders?

(Just kick me out if I'm veering too far off topic. It's a track post and I'm just finding myself more and more involved in track thoughts these days  [moto] )

Riding a small bike in the B or A group, you just get used to being passed on the straights.  Big bikes don't care if they have to pass you on the straights.  At all.  It's easy and you're just another person to pass.  You need to get out of your head the notion that you might inconvenience others on the track.  Just ride your pace, ride consistently and let others worry about how to get around you. 

The biggest problem with the A and B groups are that 'normal' sized bikes misjudge your speed and cut in front of you and almost take your front tire out.  Happens all the time.  Or they pass you back right before a turn and then park it.  You go around them in the turn, then they blast on the straight and park it again.   It gets frustrating.  I just used to pull into the pits and look for clear track.

You're also more likely to have some guy get the red mist if you go around him.  It wasn't unusual in the B group for someone to crash because they *have* to pass me after I got by them.  In fact, PTT told riders in the riders' meeting that if they get passed by a 250 they were pussies.  Thanks, Michael Ernest.   [roll]

The move to B seems scary, but it isn't.  You'll find it refreshing that people are more predictable.  And the passing/getting passed is no big deal.

Just ride your line and be predictable. Expect to get your doors blown off in the straight and don't be spooked by it. Don't look back and try to move out of their way, cause they have already set you up for the pass before you know they are there.

Remy - I ride in B group.  It seems to be a good fit for me there.  Most of the time at least 1/3-1/2 of the riders are faster than me in that group.  I ran in C group last month when I was out there because of some bike-sharing logistics.  I think I passed everyone but one or two people when I rode in there.  I think that C group was pretty average.  This particular day at Sears seemed to have me riding backwards though, and I rode in B.  I got passed on the straights.  In the turns.  On the brakes.   [cheeky]  I was trying to look up what the generally accepted times are for the groups (A,B,C) but can't find them.  I know what Tigre runs, and Enzo felt he was doing about 2:00 or a little slower.  I was running about 2:05 or slower based on my Garmin, but I have no clue what the accuracy is on it. 

Like Spidey said, you just get used to getting passed in the straights on a smaller bike.  I tend to try to take the middle of the track on the straights to allow people two paths around me.  I'm generally not going fast enough to need the entire track for that first turn after a long straight (at least not at Thill or Sears, the only tracks I've ridden) so this plan works for me.  The key is doing the same thing every time and just stay steady.  The other riders out there will discover what your M.O. is and you shouldn't have any issues.   It's sometimes tough to have a bike pass within 2' of you and not flinch, but I'm getting better at this.  I'll often find that people on bigger bikes will cut my nose off and then I'll be able to stick with them through the tighter turns.  Then the track opens up and they start to leave me--sometimes slowly--sometimes very quickly.   [laugh]  I've never had anyone ride like they *needed* to pass me after getting passed by me.  I've had some people just do really dumb stuff around me, but it never seemed aggro.  I think the ponytail sticking out of the back of the helmet helps a little in that respect.  ;)  Everybody's experience out there is a little different.  Treat others how you would want to be treated--the old adage works on the track, too.  [thumbsup]

You're all teh best. Thanks for the insight.   [beer]

That's what this place is for, dude.  Ask away.    [thumbsup]

You look great! Seriously, buy some of the pix--they could be great posters and greeting cards. [thumbsup]