What am I missing? I was under the impression this was a straight bolt on as long as you used the spacers and rotors from the S4RS? There is something wrong with the offset of the rotors. You can't put the calipers on without metal on metal contact between the inside of the caliper and rotor. The stock offset on the S2R1000 rotors look like they would work, but they are 6 bolt not 5 like the S4RS wheel.
Anyone have an idea?
Stu?
Please?
Chris
IIRC, Speeddog and/or Stu said it was because of the Ohlins forks on the S4rs. One of them mentioned it to me recently. Mebbe it was because the fork bottoms are wider? I don't remember exactly. That's all I know. G'luck.
Hmmmmm, anyone got a set of Ohlins and monoblocks they wanna sell?
Well, looking at it again, looks like some material would need to be taken off of the fork bottom mounts or the caliper itself...
The rotors have a different offset between the radial calipers and the axial calipers you have on your bike. You can't use your rotors because the bolt pattern is different. You need to contact BrakeTech and get yourself some cast iron rotors with a 5 hole pattern and offset for axial calipers.
This is why I didn't trade my S4R for an S4Rs. I couldn't swap the BST wheels and Brake Tech rotors.
I was talking to Mark about it yesterday. I'm contemplating turning the rotors around the other way and shimming them back out. It could work...
I don't like using the "make it fit" approach when it comes to brakes. But, that's just me.
I sent an email to brake tech. But I imagine it will cost me as much or more for the rotors as it did for the wheels and tires...
Quote from: NAKID on May 17, 2009, 02:44:36 PM
I sent an email to brake tech. But I imagine it will cost me as much or more for the rotors as it did for the wheels and tires...
Yes it will. But they are nice.
Quote from: silentbob on May 17, 2009, 02:39:20 PM
I don't like using the "make it fit" approach when it comes to brakes. But, that's just me.
What could go wrong? ;D
Quote from: ducpainter on May 17, 2009, 05:01:47 PM
What could go wrong? ;D
Plenty could. But, if done right it could work. Obviously it will be double, triple and quadruple checked before I attempt anything "at speed"...
Quote from: ducpainter on May 17, 2009, 05:01:47 PM
What could go wrong? ;D
I just don't like extending the bolts away from the hub, adding to the flex and possible failure many miles down the road after you are confident that everything is now working fine.
Of course you could always sell the wheels and buy BSTs instead. That way you will save money on the rotors. [laugh]
Quote from: silentbob on May 17, 2009, 07:30:54 PM
I just don't like extending the bolts away from the hub, adding to the flex and possible failure many miles down the road after you are confident that everything is now working fine.
Of course you could always sell the wheels and buy BSTs instead. That way you will save money on the rotors. [laugh]
An old flattracker buddy told me
"Brakes just slow you down" ;D
Other solution is to machine new carriers for the disks.
Thus you'd:
- remove disks from carriers by drilling/removing buttons
- install disks on new carriers. (use "full floating" buttons too that way your disks ringle/ringle/dingle as you push your bike around!)
- park: design your own cool cutout in the new carrier itself!
Only problem is that short of having your own lathe / mill -- it isn't cost effective unless someone does a small batch of them via CNC. (and then sells the remainder via Jeff / MonsterParts or themselves) Any machinist needing a small project?
Quote from: MotoCreations on May 17, 2009, 09:32:13 PM
Other solution is to machine new carriers for the disks.
Thus you'd:
- remove disks from carriers by drilling/removing buttons
- install disks on new carriers. (use "full floating" buttons too that way your disks ringle/ringle/dingle as you push your bike around!)
- park: design your own cool cutout in the new carrier itself!
Only problem is that short of having your own lathe / mill -- it isn't cost effective unless someone does a small batch of them via CNC. (and then sells the remainder via Jeff / MonsterParts or themselves) Any machinist needing a small project?
Are you volunteering? ;D
Got a reply back from BrakeTech. Short answer, I'm SOL.
Long answer, they have 5 bolt rotors with the proper offset, but they are 310mm not 320mm rotors...
Any other ideas? I won't be able to spend any kind of time with it until this weekend at the earliest so I'd like to at least have an idea beforehand...
Call Motowheels. They will take the stock S4Rs wheels on trade and get you a set of forged wheels in their place.
Take the oppurtunity to upgrade to forks with radial bottoms.
848/1098 will work on the cheap, and of course, ohlins will as well.
Spend $600 making some rotors work, or $600 getting a better front end..... [thumbsup]
But I'll have to get either new triples or have them machined right? Plus, the radial bottoms won't work with the axial calipers so I'd have to get the radial calipers as well.
So far, flipping and shimming the existing rotors sounds like the easiest, most immediate solution, if it works SAFELY...
Why would you need triples?
848 forks are 53 top/bottom.
S4Rt forks are 50/54
If the wheel fits, then the fork space/axle is fine, and so will your triples :)
I've seen 848 front ends go for $500 on the bay.
BUT...since you've got axial mounted calipers.....why not just shim the caliper?
Shimming the caliper would make it worse. The rotor is too far out. It either needs to move in or the caliper needs to move out. The only way to space the caliper out would be to machine material off of the inside of the fork bottom or the outside of the caliper...
In the process of upgrading my S2R 800 to use an S4R frontend, calipers & forks. Found that desmoworks will put together a set of ISR rotors 6 bolt pattern with a 15mm offset to fit the radial calipers on a standard S2R wheel, cost as about $650.00, apparently one of the 749's had the 6 bolt pattern and 15mm offset but they seem to be very hard to find. So all this is cheaper than new wheels ..... which is what I did. [bang]
Cheers
But I need 5 bolt rotors for the S4Rs wheels..
Sorry, had it backwards in my head. I'd rather machine a smidge off the caliper mounting surface than have rotor carriers made. Which would have to be moved "more"....flipping them and spacing the rotors or taking 5mm off the mounting surface of the caliper?
OH....and THANKS [roll] Michael for returning an email, phone call or PM telling me you didn't need the wheels. After you had bought the front end and we talked, it seemed like you were pretty much set on a set of wheels. No idea how many people I told the wheels were sold to. That will teach me in the future. 6 bolt is easier because of the 748R or corsa rotor offset....15mm w/6 bolt. He needs a 5 bolt the other way and it doesn't exist
The machining is a little more invasive. Plus, the rotor doesn't have a ton of offset to begin with, so it should need to be shimmed THAT much...
Call Motowheels first and get a price. Forged wheels are better anyway.
OK, so I figured since I had the wheels and rotors here, I would try what Mark recommended. I took the rotor off and flipped it over then played with washers to shim it back out to the proper offset.
Good news and bad news
Good news is it worked. I could space them out enough for everything to line up like it should.
Bad news is it took 9.5mm (7 washers) to get it there. I had considered having a hub-centric spacer made once I found the proper thickness, but that is a whole lotta work. Also, the rotor bolts only have about 2-3 threads into the wheel with that much spacing so I would need longer rotor bolts as well. Not to mention the additional weight this would add since I would have to do it on both sides.
My only other option to keep this as inexpensive as possible is to get HMT rotors. They are the proper offset and bolt pattern, but they are also only 310mm, not 320. That would equate to 5mm less for the brake pads to grab onto. Is that significant? I don't know.
Just thought of another idea. Can't I just buy the HMT rotor hats, drill out the buttons on the stock set and install the new HMT hats to my S4RS rotors with new buttons?
Could work, if the blades interface with the carrier in the same way. The buttons don't always carry all the load. For instance the BrakeTech rotors have a register between the blade and the carrier that handles the brake torque as opposed to letting the buttons take the load.
Did you call Motowheels to see what kind of deal they would give you to trade your cast S4Rs wheels for a set of forged rims with the correct rotor pattern? Plus you have your S2R wheels you can throw in too.
I hadn't yet. I wanted to consider all options before I go that route...
a thought... without having the wheel in front of me. would it be possible to have 5mm milled from the mounting face on the wheel?
That would be more drastic than milling the fork bottoms and/or caliper mounts.
so if i read this thread correctly, the rotors stick out past the calipar?
I have gsxr forks, with the radial brakes. I had to get 3.5mm spacers machined to push the rotors out from the hub to align with the caliper. And a few other spacers to center the wheel on the axle correctly.
I have been looking to change out my wheels with the S4rs set-up also.
edit.....
i just read all 3 pages...for some reason the brain told me it was only one page.
NAKID...if it would help translate your issue to other folks that may be able to help, i would be happy to draw up (CAD) a document illustrating all of the dimensions you have found....pm me if you need this, i am going to just rework my gxsr spacer drawing, i would just need new measurements from you.
When looking at the bike from the front, the rotors have too much offset, meaning the stick out too far from the wheel and are not centered between the pads. In fact they stick out so far that the rotor contacts the caliper itself.