Ducati Monster Forum

Hi All,
Cant believe how you all just packed up and left the other forum!!!

Anyways,
I am pretty anal about frequent oil changes and decided to do a change halfway between services. So I went to my closest Ducati dealer to get a Genuine Oil filter and some fresh oil. I got Motul 7100 simply because the above mob who carried out my first service listed this as the oil they used. So I made a pact to keep using this oil as it was used by the dealer. All Good so far...
Yesterday I dropped the oil and removed the oil filter and to my amazment - the Gen filter in the box had the usual Ducati printing all over it but in a different format to the one I pulled out of the bike, I mean very different. It was very fishy. They were both obviously gen though. I thought - OK, Ducati might have changed the text on the filters over the last few months. Then.......

I opened the Motul and started pouring it in. I almost fell over when I saw the colour of it - It looked like red cordial. The reason for my shock was because I clearly remember the oil colour from the first service was the usual golden honey colour  - although my receipt said Motul 7100 on it.

My theory is -
The oil and filter were not changed. The oil filter I pulled from the bike yesterday was the original factory item (never removed at that initial 1000k service).
I'm kicking myself - I should have marked/scored the original before I took it in for the first service to ensure they changed it.

My alternate theory is -
They dropped the oil, refilled it with the bulk drum cheapo stuff in the workshop and never changed the filter and just simply overcharged me for profit seeking.

Do you guys think the same as me? or am I just smoking too much?
The thing is - I cant go back and abuse anyone as I dont have any real evidence to say that the oil they put in was not Motul 7100 and that they overcharged me by $100 for the oil and filter.
If I am correct - It is a total shame that the only Ducati Dealer in North Sydney are Fu#kin' Cheats.

On another note -
At that 1000k service, I asked them to adjust my DP ECU to the new termi's and airbox and lower the idle as it was idling too high with the new computer. It idles and runs perfect now, but did they do all the ECU adjustments correctly seeing that they may have done a dodgy job with the lube. Im not concerned about this as it runs beautifully, but you can understand my lingering thoughts.

Sorry - just had to let it out!!!!!!!!

If its the dealer I think you are talking about (on the NORTH - SIDE of Sydney) I would not put anything past them. I had some work carried out by them on a bike (not a Ducati) and they were absolute dickheads with NFI. They charged me for unnecessary work to the value of $900 and did not fix the problem (I told them at the time that what they suggested was not the problem but they assured me and told me to trust them, HA!. Then proceeded to lock my bike in the workshop until I paid the money. I would not piss on them if they were on fire.... I would steer well clear of those Pricks!!!
In my opinion.....
P.S I have calmed down now [bang] it has been 2yrs.

Yep, we are talking about the same dealer.

From my understanding and past 1000k services on of my Ducati's, correct me if im wrong someone they dont change the filter ???

Im not so sure about the oil either.I trust my service guy so i dont ask .

 

I have a pdf format maintenance schedule which breaks down what should be done at each service...for the 1000km / 600m it states check/adjust oil level, clean oil pre-filter and change oil filter.

Book was produced by Michael Gannon. Many thanks to him for the answer.

Don't go back.
I knew they did not have the best reputation, but they were offering FREE fitting of tyres.
What could possibly go wrong?

Everything.
Simple change of a tyre and they stuffed it.

The place is in walking distance from my place.
I'll travel interstate for a part than go there again.

Yep, sorry mate but you may have been ripped off. I have just checked my records, and they show that for my 1k service, oil and filter were changed. I had the service done by a place in far Western Sydney, out Penrith way. I know they changed the oil and filter, because I watched them do it. I too am anal about oil changes, and keeping records.....maybe just anal overall, but thats another story. ducsport

I've got a few observations and my own story to tell...

Firstly, according to most people I respect they probably shouldn't have put full synthetic in at the 1000km service anyway, the bike still needs to finish bedding various bits of metal in and lots of people say to run non-synth "dinosaur" oil till the 5000km change, so I'd have expected them to use 5100 instead of 7100 for the first service. Of course they should have also _charged_ you for 5100 not 7100 as well... (Oh, and back before they screwed me over they used to tell me they used Motul 5100 unless you specifically asked for something else.)

Dockstrada, you _definitely_ want to change out the fllter at 1000km, the motors been busy grinding metal bits away from the piston rings and gear teeth, and the oil is _spectacularly_ grotty early on, there's no way you want to keep the oil for another 9000km (which is the next scheduled service, 11000 for the newest bikes). Some people I know suggest using inexpensive (but appropriately graded) oil and dropping out it several times in the first 1000km just to make sure the metal that wears away doesn't end up back in the important bits of the motor.

Spider, you sure you're reading that right? The '00 Owners Manual PDF clearly says to change the oil and filter "After 1000km, 600mies, or 6 months", and to check the oil "Every 1000km/600miles" and change the oil and filter every 10,000km. So you do _check_ the oil level every 1000, but you also change oil and filter after the first 1000...

Tricolore, I see you've had similar dealings with them as I had ~6 years back. You calmed down after only 2 years? Watch _this!_

Here's my story. (Stop me if you've heard this before...)

I started going there after a poor experience at Frasers on the recommendation of a friend who knew the service manager Phil. I got a few years of great service from them/him, and one day when the bike started making an odd noise, I took it in. After a fair bit of fiddling with it, they finally diagnosed a failed crank main bearing (Phil had kept me in the loop on the troubleshooting, they were slow to diagnose it 'cause they wanted to try every other possibility before splitting the cases). When they finally worked out what was wrong, Phil called me up and we discussed the various options - Phil said a full rebuild (all bearings, seals, gaskets, rings, etc) would cost ~$4000 and he didn't think it was worth it for a 750 with 75,000km on it, he could look for a low mileage 900 which he said could usually be picked up for ~$2000 - $2500, or we could replace the man bearings and the inexpensive seals and gaskets for ~$1200 (these were all on top of the ~$600 bill I'd run up for the diagnosis). We agreed that if there was a 900 motor available he'd grab it and put it in, but if he couldn't get hold of one easily, the most sensible option would be to just button it back up cheaply and replace the motor down the track giving me a bit more time to source a good 2nd hand 900 motor. Phil made a few calls, and called me back saying there were no 900 motor available through his usual contacts, so we agreed to option 3 for ~$1800 all up. This was all 2 weeks before I was heading overseas for a month, so I told Phil I'd need to either pick it up within two weeks or wait for 6 weeks, and if it made scheduling easier for him I was happy to wait till I got home - "Great" he says, "I'll have it waiting for you when you get home!"... Six weeks later I call up and ask for Phil "Ummm, he doesn't work here anymore..." so I ask if my bike's ready for me to pick it up, and they say "which bike? the one in bits over in the corner?" Grrrr! Eventually Karl the boss says he'll look into it and get back to me. I spend the next 2 weeks calling every day and always hearing "Oh, he's with a customer, I'll get him to call you" or "You've just missed him, he's gone to lunch." When I _finally_ manage to get him on the phone (by having our office manager make the call for me!) He says "It needs new pistons and barrels, it's completely worn out, it'll be $4000. When would you like us to start work?" I tell him, "Hang on, I had agreed with Phil that he'd have it ready for me 2 weeks ago for around $1800" he flat out refused to even consider putting it back together with the "worn out and dangerous" pistons and barrels. So I showed up the next day with a friend and a ute and said "I'd like my bike back please" and he said "No!" and I said "If I have to I'll call the police and insurance company and report it stolen. I'd like my bike back _now!_" So the mechanics start hauling out boxes of parts and loading them into Chris's ute, and all the time Karls ranting about how it _needs_ new pistons and what a good deal he's offering me to supply them for only $1800 and how foolish I'm being thinking it's worth putting back together with the old parts and how it's gonna seize up on me in a couple of thousand km.

That was as ~75,000km - I reassembled it in my shed with the help of a couple of friends with just new main bearings and rings and a few new seals and gaskets - that was around ~120,000km ago. It's _still_ got those original pistons and barrels in it. Not only that, but when I got them measured up before reassembling it, the pitson to bore clearance was .0035mm in one and .0034 in the other - the spec says .0025 - .0045. Mike at Gowies says when he's blueprinting race motors he aims for as close as he can get to .0035 in both, and is happy enough with anything from .0032 up to .0038 or so. The service limit is .0125mm, but Mike also said that you _never_ "wear out" Ducati's Nickasil plated bores, you can _damage_ them by dropping valves or cracking rings or severely overheating them, but you never _wear_ them out, the iron rings and alloy pistons are just too soft to do any damage to the bores.

So in my experience, Karl is perfectly happy to not honor agreements his staff make with his customers, he's perfectly happy to insist you need thousands of dollars worth of completely unnecessary work, and he perfectly happy to brazenly lie to you when you call him on it (and, if you're reading this Karl, perfectly happy to tell those lies in front of witnesses who're helping you take your bike home in bits too).

So yeah, I'd certainly believe they'd bill you $100 for a service and not touch a make the beast with two backsing thing. I'd certainly believe they'd claim to use (and charge you for) expensive oil and put in cheaper oil (or not bother taking the old oil out!)


You're preaching the the choir here...

big (I didn't realise this was going to turn into another one of _those_ rants! Ask me my Frasers story sometime!)

What a couple of ripper stories...

I've been riding bikes around the streets of Melbourne since 1975...

Have never been treated badly (rudely yes) or ripped off by any dealer, service centre or accessory retailer... 

Not sure if I'm lucky or if the above stories are Sydneycentric !!!

Ita

Touch wood..... Salt over the left shoulder...... And all that.......

I have also been fortunate in Sydney with all my dealings with NFI and Fraser's. I've had a great response and service to a couple of "issues". No I'm not being sarcastic, I really have had great service.

On the service side George did most of the work on my Monster at Fraser's. So as he is now at Flywheels, so shall my bike follow.......

Have never been to said Ducati Dealer on the North Side.....

Your more than likely right Big but I never ask questions when it comes to my bikes. I just get it done. so I don't know, but if it is part of the first service what ever it is im sure that Steve is doing the right thing by me like most service guys.

After all last time I visited him I walked in with 2 not 1 but 2 cases of JD's and coke tucked firmly under my arm pits.

It is unfortunate there are some cowboys in the industry just like in any field.
I guess you need to find a reputable place and stick with them through thick and thin to build a trustworthy relationship.

C'mon on Big tell us .... you might as well get it all out of your system.

That fire that is burning inside you will keep us all warm while you tell the story - just shine the torch up over your face as you do it.

You know you'll feel better getting it out .... or at least it will mean you won't have to bring it up again (maybe).

great story Big, the imagery of a man collecting his bike in boxes of bits from the floor terrifies all of us, I actually found myself shaking my head and uttering 'bastards' under my breath

now let me just open one of these  [drink]

O.K, I'm ready for the Fraser's story!

If it's _images_ you want...
http://flickr.com/photos/bigiain/276962706
http://flickr.com/photos/bigiain/2237617969

and the cause of it all:
http://flickr.com/photos/bigiain/2238423424


I'll see how I go working myself into a state worthy of _that_ rant...

big

Too late!

No matter, new server, old server too hard to find such news and issues.

All good big!

One piddly liddle ball bearing caused all that drama!
thats firked!
was it easily replaced?
Dealers and mechanics are all the same.......instead of taking the time to correctly diagnose a problem, they just take advantage of your nievety and will keep taking your money until you finally scream 'no more!'

That's one crazy story Big.
Well I just built my bridge and mono'd over it!!! The oil is changed, the sump plug magnet was clean, the bike sounds and runs beautifully and Im never going back there. I will be asking for everyones recomendation when it comes time to do the valves. But that will be a while of yet.

Sooner than you think, my recommendation is either Gowanloch or Flywheels. [thumbsup]

BigIan, interesting story and one day I would be interested in the Frasers story.

For me, I have had Rob from Flywheels do all the work on my bike I don't do myself. As with Big, I use 5100 Motul (on Rob's advice and for the same reasons listed by BigIan) and change the oil every 3-4k.

The only other person to work on my bike has been George from Frasers - good news that he is now at Flywheels [thumbsup]

Ciao, R_usty

Oh, in the answer to the original question, looks like a YES.

Your oil and filter must be be changed at 1000 k's.

I have the workshop manual and that is what it says!