I am trying to get bad valve guides warrantied on my 06 s2r1k (which is out of warranty of course.) unfortunately, in addition to being out of warranty, i recently moved across the country, so going back to the dealer i purchased from is really not an option.
What i would like to find out is this...
If you had bad valve guides on your out of warranty bike...
1- what model/year bike
2- if it was warrantied, when was the claim approved
3- did ducati cover all parts and labor
4- if you were denied, what where you told
Please dont use this as a place to bash dealers, as i just need to find out what my options are.
finally, i welcome input from any dealers who may read this, as well as DNA (public or private is fine) [thumbsup]
(mods, if this is the wrong place for this, let me know)
I purchased my '04 MTS 1000 used in Fall '06. During the 6K service shortly thereafter it was discovered the valve guides were bad. The repair was covered under warranty, even though it had expired and I was the second owner. What I think helped is that the bike was bought and always serviced at Duc Sea, so they had full records on it. I had asked about the possibility of it being covered if needed before I bought it, and they said it looked good. I wouldn't have bought it otherwise.
Parts were covered and I believe most if not all of the labor was. I still had to pay for the 6K valve adjustment, but anything related to the actual guide replacement was covered. [thumbsup]
I have an 2006 S2R1000, i'm the 2nd owner and the bike was in warranty at the time. The valve guides were very badly worn by the 6,000 mile mark. It was a bit of a hassle to get the dealer to submit the paper work for warranty because i didn't have any relationship with the dealer what so ever. However it was approved and I ended up paying ~$40 in parts that the warranty did not cover. Dont bother going in with new oil or new plugs, theyll replace it anyway.
I did not have to pay for a valve adjustment, I dont know why you did, when they change the guides, they have to remove the head to get the new guides pressed in, so you have to readjust the valves it anyway, or am i wrong?
What i highly recommend is to get them to approve it and have the parts on hand so youre not stuck with a non rideable bike for weeks at a time. The whole job can take a whole day and if thye are relying on an outside shop then it may take a week or two. Just dont bring it in, let them do the paper work, sit on it, take it apart, wait for parts etc. this way you can minimize the amount of time it ends up being in the shop.
If they only replaced the valves guides on one head then there would be additional labor involved in adjusting the valves on the other head. My guess.
Keep in mind my bike was out of warranty (and I was 2nd owner). Maybe DNA had only offered to pay for parts, and the labor that was above and beyond a normal 6K service. That would make sense. I didn't mind...I brought it in for the 6K service which I obviously fully expected to pay for.
I agree on that respect, i would of just kept my mouth shut, your getting an off warranty job done for free so its better then them denying you. lol but if youre in warranty and your requesting just the valve guide adjustments, theres no reason why you should buy an extra soda pop if your meal comes with one already.
Is this something that's especially hard to do yourself?
Quote from: Paegelow on May 21, 2009, 05:34:46 PM
Is this something that's especially hard to do yourself?
depends if you have a machine shop or not
So there seems to be 2 of you guys here that have needed valve guides at the 6000 mile mark, I'm going to assume there are others. Why? Are you setting those suckers on redline for miles and miles on end? I mean, they are 1000CC twins, big time torque, you shouldn't have to be revving them a lot. Are they done wrong from the factory? Bad clearances, or bad materials? Bad machine work? What is the deal? You see, I work in a shop where we do high performance cylinder heads, lots and lots of them for the drag racing industry, and there isn't too many things that can go wrong, I'm just wondering why the problems in such a short amount of miles. What were the reasons that the shops/manufacturer gave for the issues?
Most plausible reason I've heard is either too much clearance at assembly, or material was too soft.
The ones I've seen, valves were fine, so possibly it's more likely to be soft guides.
I've seen 800's and 1000's only with this issue.
QuoteBad clearances, or bad materials?
No FHE but from reading a lot of posts on the subject I think it's something to do with both of the above and not related to over-revving or rider abuse. The recommended fix seems to be to replace them with aftermarket guides rather than Ducati guides. Can't dredge up the name of the guide manufacturer.
nicholas makes guides for about $25 a piece last i checked, ducati supposedly remade them with a slightly newer design and more importantly a different material. Im not sure if those are the guides i have in there now or not, i havent checked.
there is also another company that makes performance guides, but i dont know the company either. they dont specialize in ducatis, they just specialize in engine parts.
I've got to go put in some OT today, I'll see what they use in the fuelers and the Pro Stock (Gas) heads. I know we have a working relationship with a couple of different manufacturers, and see what their recommendations are. I'll get back later today on the manufacturers and materials.
QuoteI'll get back later today on the manufacturers and materials.
That would be interesting. Seems like exhaust valve guides in particular have a rough life, having to function at high temps with minimal lube.
Not to lean on you too much :) but didn't you mention awhile back that the flow bench guru's were going to look at one of your Duc heads someday? That'd also be interesting.
We'll check it out if I ever have to get inside the engine. Hopefully not anytime soon, but I was watching them do some flow work on a Big Block Chevy head yesterday. If I get in there, they'll help me do whatever I need to do. Some pretty good guys work there.
The engineer highly recommends these guys, they do damn good work.
http://www.blackdiamondvalves.com/tech_support.htm (http://www.blackdiamondvalves.com/tech_support.htm)
Quote from: corndog67 on May 22, 2009, 01:06:16 PM
We'll check it out if I ever have to get inside the engine. Hopefully not anytime soon, but I was watching them do some flow work on a Big Block Chevy head yesterday. If I get in there, they'll help me do whatever I need to do. Some pretty good guys work there.
The engineer highly recommends these guys, they do damn good work.
http://www.blackdiamondvalves.com/tech_support.htm (http://www.blackdiamondvalves.com/tech_support.htm)
They are known in Duc circles as Kibblewhite guides.
Goes to the same url that corndog posted.
I forgot to mention that that was the Kibblewhite site.
QuoteThe engineer highly recommends these guys, they do damn good work.
http://www.blackdiamondvalves.com/tech_support.htm (http://www.blackdiamondvalves.com/tech_support.htm)
Yeah, Kibblewhite, from your link, was the name I was trying to dredge up. Great catalog - just reading through it makes me want to build a motor.
Thread drift - I was talking to a retired top fuel dragster driver the other day and he showed me a used piston. Was very interesting, I don't know what I was expecting from a piston from a 1,000HP per cylinder engine, some sort of ultra high tech thing, but with the exception of the top ring groove it looked like a regular piston, and was even heavy and had long skirts. He said he used to pay $45 each for them new when he was racing and when they were worn out he could get $50 for them as souvenirs.
Bob, speaking of thread drift, this is a piston out of a 500" Top Alcohol Hemi, one that apparently, according to the crew chief, someone forgot to tighten the rod bolts. Ouch.
(http://i668.photobucket.com/albums/vv48/JonesMachining/IMG_0516.jpg)
Two more views.
(http://i668.photobucket.com/albums/vv48/JonesMachining/IMG_0515.jpg)
(http://i668.photobucket.com/albums/vv48/JonesMachining/IMG_0517.jpg)
Ouch is right, if I was the guy who forgot to tighten the rod bolts I think I'd be thinking about Hiri-kiri :(