Ducati Monster Forum

$815

is this normal?  ??? :-X
what are they actually gonna do to the bike?
I just dropped it off BTW [coffee]

A dealer told me $800-1000 for my 6k on a air cooled 2v.  So $815 isn't out of line for a liquid cooled 4v.

Where might you be located sir?

You should've asked prior to leaving w/ dealer.  Ask me how i know...

these services are such fkin scams, just a way to make money.. terrible

$815 sounds pretty high for the 749 & $800-$1000 is completely out of line for a 2 valve.  Ducati advertises on the newer bikes that the 7500 mile service should only cost about $300 plus time for replacing shims if needed.  That is on a 4 valve bike.  If you look in you owners manaul there is a list of what is done at each service, the 6k/7500 service is pretty basic.  If you have basic hand tools & mechanical abiltiy you should be able to do it your self for $50 & a case of beer if your valves are in spec.

What model of air cooled bike is it?

Really depends on what they do.

If the bike hasn't ever had belts and they adjust the valves and replace many shims it's not out of line IMO.

ok so I should ask them if they replaced the shims and belts?
I know the belts have never been changed

ha i dont even know how to lube the chain

depends on what parts they're replacing, what work they're doing and how much they charge per hour.  could get that high fairly easily - belts are au$170 or so each.

I heard that a 749S (only? I don't know) requires more labor for the valve check -- might involve pulling one/both of the heads... [roll]

it takes a lot of time to do a valve adjustment on a 749/999.  We have to remove the fuel tank and radiator.  Your looking at 8 valves with 2 shims each that have to be checked.  I did a valve adjustment on a 749 today, had to replace all 8 closing shims and 3 openers to get them all within spec.  Because you can't trust Ducati's shim sizes each one has to be measured and compared to the one taken out.  Did a 999 yesterday that needed 6 closers and 4 openers.  Seems rare to find one of those that doesn't require a decent amount of work.  Besides the work required just to get to the valves, if you look at the checklist (a good dealer will be able to give you a copy of the checklist) there is quite a lot of other work involved. 

whats a valve? whats a shim?

ok I hate to be "that guy" but are these serious questions or are you being facetious?

im pretty sure hes serious, he doesnt even know how to clean or inspects his chain, i dont think hes a seasonal weekend rider and tries to sell his 749 every year.

Beck, at a minimum, besides the oil change and filters you are paying labor for the time it takes to check the valve clearances which is rather time consuming.  If this check is not done you risk severe engine damage.  If the timing belts haven't been changed yet they are due.  Some shops charge a price for checking valve clearance and an additional charge for each valve that is adjusted, some charge a flat rate.  Then, there are other operations that may be due on your bike like brake fluid flush and fork oil change.  Some shops charge individually for these, some throw it in with the service.  You need to talk directly to the shop and let them explain what you are being charged for.  If you are still not satisfied, find another shop.

I really do not know what a valve or a shim is - sorry
im sure my car has a bunch of valves and shims I dont know about either thats why I prefer leasing
I will ask the dealer to tell me exactly what is being done to it

Valves are what let the air/fuel into the cylinder and exhaust gasses out into the exhaust.  Your bike has 4 valves in each cylinder head (vertical and horizontal), 2 exhaust valves and 2 intake valves.  The belts turn 2 camshafts in each head, one camshaft for the intake valves, one for the exhaust valves (in each head obviously).  These camshafts have lobes that move rocker arms which push the valves down into the cylinder (open) and on Ducatis a 2nd rocker arm driven off of a different cam lobe pulls the valve back up (closed).  Ducati is unique in having the camshaft close the valves, almost every automotive/motorcycle engine in the world uses springs to close the valves.  Keep in mind all this movement is happening VERY VERY FAST.  The gap between the rocker arms and the cam lobes when the valves are closed is critical to keeping the engine running properly.  To set this gap there are shims of different sizes positioned on the valve, the valve adjustment process is basically measuring the gap and swapping the shims as needed to achieve the appropriate gap.  Obviously to do this you have to get to each cylinder head which means removing a LOT of stuff.  As I mentioned Ducatis are different in that they have a rocker arm closing the valve as well, which means there is a shim for opening each valve and a shim for closing each valve.  Check out this animation of a Ducati valve movement including the camshaft and rocker arm.  This animation is from a 2-valve engine so it is a bit different than yours, it only has one camshaft in each head. 
CLICK (http://www.ducatidesmo.com/valves.htm)

Labeled:
(http://woody-racing.com/Ducativalve.jpg)

so why would the dealer say 12,000 miles?
what a bunch of jerk offs
im heading to the dealer now ill make them change them

back on topic

got the bike back
they told me that because teh belts are made from this "new material" that they did not have to be changed.

oh and the bridgestone bto16's stick like glue amazing

that new material is kevlar cord/banding... and alot of guys run belts a lot longer than 2 years, but better safe than sorry.
i would check them out, and see what kinda shape they are in... im sure they did as well.

they are still mostly rubber though, and rubber can corrode, exposing the cords... these cords can snag in one of your pulleys and cause an unwelcome clunk or boom... resulting in catastrophe..

BUT, if they are in good shape, they are in good shape..
mine have 4700 miles on them, the bike is 2006... they look like they are brand new still.
i plan on running them at least until my valve service...
at which point i will have them changed, or i will change them myself.. pretty simple task, but dont make the beast with two backs it up...

its a subjective call i guess, and im certainly not the authority on the subject.. this is just a culmination of all the stuff i've heard/read...

thank you for teh info

im at 11,000 on an 06 with stock belts, they look good to me, but im going to change them out @12,000 when i get my valves checked again. I also had them retentioned to somehting more forgiving when i did the 6000.

<mod>

I pruned all of the crap out of this thread.

This is the Tech Forum.

If you want to talk about food or cappucino or whatever, go to NMC.
If you want to poke each other in the eye, do it via PM.

If you want to contribute  On Topic, go ahead.

</mod>

cost me $1400
for 2 new bto16's
6000 mile service they did not change the belts
they did chane the valve covers

what was wrong with the valve covers? they are covered by the fairing and your bike was to few miles for them to be damaged unless something crawled in there and put a hole in them.

who knows, shiesters man they probably didn't do sh*t to the bike fkin assholes

That's what ya get for not knowing what a valve and a shim are and looking down your nose at people who do. ;)

John...

you're up. ;D

a lot of people take their cars and bikes to the shop and do not know the mechanics of them. I was not looking down on anyone it was people looking down on me first so I fired back, I am not really a snob like that I was just defending myself to the people that had a beef with me not knowing about shimmys.

tell you what im gonna do the 12,000 service myself lol [thumbsup]

hmmm now shes leaking what looks like windex, do they put windex in the bikes at all? i don't see a reason for windshield washer fluid? ??? then again this is a ducati maybe it does?

That's most likely coolant.

now you're just pulling our legs and having fun.   You're not serious!? 

This is getting very old.

He probably means the valve cover gaskets.  That'd be standard for a 6k. 


It's probably NOS.

lol yea figured it was coolant.
is it normal for a little bit to come out? noticed it in my garage this afternoon.
and im going to change the belts myself and take pics of it and post a how to here once they need to be changed

It shouldn't be leaking.  That said, if you haven't already ridden it since you picked it up, take the bike out and warm it up.  Let it run for a bit.  Then let it cool down.  Sometimes slight coolant leaks will heal themselves, particularly if your hoses are old. 

I don't know if they need to take of the radiator to do a 6k on a 749, so I'm not sure if they undid any of your hoses.  Either way, check that the hoses are all on properly and that the hose clamps (to the extent there are any) are tight. 

BTW, if it's leaking coolant, DO NOT RIDE IT AROUND THE BLOCK to test it out.  If you get coolant on your rear wheel while you're moving, you're make the beast with two backsed. 

thanks spidey ill see if it leaks again