Ducati Monster Forum

Can anyone give me an idea of how much more life you get out of a set of tires when you use tire warmers?  Are we talking about double the life or just an extra session?

Can you give me an idea of how many track days you get out of a set of tires as well?

I have slicks on my supermotard and they just keep on sticking heat cycle after heat cycle.  I'm looking at getting a set of track day wheels/tires for my SV and I know the wear is going to be much more severe.

This is based on track day only.

Thanks

tire wear and duration aside, they're worth it for the piece of mind of not having to go out on cold tires.

Race tires can't do as many heat cycles as street tires. Warmers keep the number of cycles to a minimum. Yes, you will get much more life if you keep them on warmers after you have them warmed up. As Derby said also, they will be warm when you go onto the track, and you will have peace of mind. I will just add one comment to that, unless you are gridding up to race, you don't need warm tires. Taking a couple warm up laps is just fine. In fact, going out on a flying lap right away is just plain stupid. There are no trophies given away at a trackday.

I'm not sure of your track experience but I would like to give you some practical advice. If you are still pretty new to trackdays, just put on some good sport tires. You won't be riding hard enough to need race tires, and you will get a lot more miles before the rear starts sliding. Again, I don't know your experience/skill level but that's what I tell newer riders just getting into trackdays.  [beer]

As far as life of the tire, that depends on a few factors...the bike, bike set up, tire pressure, how hard you ride it, and tire brand/model. If you ride fast on your SV 650, have your pressure towards the high end, and use Dunlop race tires with warmers, then you should get at least a couple of trackdays out of the rear.(I race with Dunlops because they last longer, and are very predictable when they start to lose grip), The 209 is a great race tire, and lasts a while.
Hope this helps  [thumbsup]

not true.


very true.

i never go out on warmed tires thinking they are completely up to temp.  warmers just can't do that.  but they sure as hell help.

Thanks for the info guys.

Fasterblkduc,

Great info thanks.  I'm an experienced track rider running in the B Group.  I'm not out there to set world records just have some fun and not get hurt.

I guess what I'm trying to gauge, and I know this is an oxymoron, is how I can minimize funds spent on tires as it relates to track days.

When I used to take my street bike out on Power Pilots (street) it would pretty much cut the tire life in half.  I'd get about 3k out of a set.  So I figued, have my street tires last the 6-7K they should and get some track oriented tires on a secong set of wheels and hopefully get 4-5 days out of a set.  This would obviously require tire warmers as you all are getting two days out of set.  I'll assume that GM2 runs much faster and harder then me so I should be ok with my calculations.

If not, it's just more money I spent on my scooter.  That's never a bad thing! [laugh]

Hmm! Having had a cold tire lowside at moderate pace on a track I'd have to disagree.

Evrything else I whole heartedly agree with.

Having race tires and warmers gives you a better sence of feel for the bike.  Race tires may not last as long as your street tires but they are better feeling on the track and tire warmes insure that you are going to get the most out of your tires.  If you feel better about the bike and it's grip then it's safer for you and everyone else on the track.  I would buy them. my 2cent [bacon]

greg, you're about right.  i've never tried to calculate it but i think that using them would get an extra full day or two out of your tires.  plus, you get to shop for a generator...  ;)

tufty, same thing happened to me a couple months ago.  brand new, cold tires.  and i knew it; i was tip-toeing.  still lowsided on T3 of my first lap... of a two-day event.  i was cornerworking so couldn't use the warmers.  bike was just broken enough that i couldn't ride it the rest of the weekend.  argh.


amen!

Guys, it's not rocket science here. If you don't have warmers, then you take a couple of laps to warm up your tires. If you went out on cold tires and lowsided, then you did not warm them up. I would rather give practical advice to someone that may be on a budget and choose not to ride because people on the internet told them that they have to spend lots of money on stuff that they don't HAVE to buy.
Seat time is more valuable than buying warmers, then sitting at home because you can't afford to do the trackday...C'mon guys, you're smarter than this.

Bottom line...warmers allow you to go faster on your first lap because your tires are warm. If you don't have them, just take a couple of warm up laps. It's only a trackday, and you will not win! If you are racing then it is an absolute necessity, but NOT necessary at a trackday. If you can afford them for your trackday bike, awesome! Buy them!

Seems pretty simple to me.

i agree with everything you just said.  yes, you can just skip the whole thing and do 2-3 warm-up laps. 

yes, when i lowsided, i knew exactly why it happened, thanks.  ;)


however, earlier you said, "unless you are gridding up to race, you don't need warm tires."   I guess we could argue the subjectivity of "need" all day long.. but if you have the option, warm is better.  fewer heat cycles is better.  and greater confidence, especially, is better.  i don't think anyone said they are necessary.  just that they are... better.

okay then....lets turn the discussion a bit then...which warmers would you get?...Chicken Hawk? Tomahawk? or what? and what set-up would you use if you didn't have a shore power(ie: a provided by facility 110V socket) source for electricity?

chicken hawks are kinda standard.  i have some DWPs, on which all the velcro straps keep breaking :(.  i've heard great things about the Woodcrafts.  i'll probably get those next.

this is actually the point where i start to sound more like fasterblkduc.  it sorta doesn't matter.. you don't need uber warmers.  warm is warm; use something and then go easy'ish on the first lap.  i don't have multi-temp or digital control wamers; i'm just doing track days.

for power, i use a honda EU2000i generator.  i've never been to a track that offered power in the pits.

Ah BOLLOCKS!! I just ordered a set of DWP's!!! shit, shit, shit, shit!!!
My Powerstands Racing crapped out already.

That's pretty much the standard generator to use. Quiet and enough power. There are cheaper ones with more power, but your neighbors wont like you too much, meaning they are very loud. You pay more for the Honda cause its quiet.

Ive never used tire warmers at all for racing or trackdays. but i was on a smaller HP bike so i wasn't demanding as much from my tires as a 1000 would. My 209's lasted for daaaaays, changed them mostly out of guilt. Then i'd swap the front to back and use the for a few more days.

go to the fabric store and get more Velcro then in preparation!

We disagree again!! [cheeky] [laugh]  I've seen too many of the cheaper brands crap out on people at the track. I've seen very few Chicken Hawk warmers have problems. If I am buying something, I try to get the best and Chicken Hawk is THE standard...like Pitbull is the standard for stands. There are other brands of course that are good, I'm just saying that spending a little more for quality is going to pay off in the long run. You don't really need the adjustable, or digital ones for trackdays. (Ok, gm2...we agree on this!  ;D) But, I would try to get at least one of the top brands. Yes, Woodcraft was mentioned and they are nice too. Forget about the extra features, just go for quality.
You can usually find good used ones on race forums like WERA.

Like mentioned, cheaper generators are loud. Those Hondas sure are nice but man...that's a lot of$$! I have a 5,000W Coleman that is loud as heck but we just put it on the backside of the trailer and then it's not bad. Plan on one set of warmers using approx. 1300-1500 Watts. Mine is so big because it powers three sets.

Do we all agree? [laugh] [beer]

I agree that the generator will power my warmers.  I really think that tire warmers, not a nicessity tho, allow people to ride better and make the track a safer place.  Any effort made to make the track safer, weather thats people not having to do a few "warm up laps" every session by using tire warmers and thus having more confidance in their performance off the bat when hitting the track, makes a difference to everyone on the track.  Really I think if you are going to do something do it right and get the proper equipment to do it right.  Can you play catcher with a regular glove, yes, but use a catchers glove and it will work out better.  Really it comes down to what do you want to get out of your track day.  You wanna get faster, you probally want to use warmers to get the most out of your day.  you just want to burn around the track then you may not need them because you are having fun either way, just keep in mind you are more limited without the use of the warmers.  now I'm up t 4cents here [bacon]

it's really more of a nuisance than anything else.  i still use the same straps, they just aren't connected on the one end so they're connected via velcro on both ends.  not the end of the world.  and derby also has some DWPs; i think his are fine so far.

the rear warmer could also be a bit larger.  when i run 195s, they just barely connect.



you didn't say anything there that i'd disagree with...   [cheeky] ;D



got mine second hand so it wasn't that pricey.  like just about everything honda makes, i think that thing will outlive me. 

See, you guys gotta take my simple question and then make me think about the extra $ I've gotta spend on better tire warmers and a generator. [evil] 

I'm just going to do track days with you GM and bite off your generator! [cheeky]

I guess my original question was, is spending the extra money on the warmers going to save me more money on tires in the long run.

I'm pretty chill when I go out on the first few laps on a sportbike so the warming on the way out isn't as important to me as minimizing heat cycles and increasing tire life.

Now my crf450 doesn't require any warm up time or tires.  I bought the wheels with from a racer and I think  shagged the tires pretty nicely.  I've done 7-8 track days with the same tires and they stick like glue.  225lbs bike and 35 HP will get you that I guess!  Full speed on the first lap and I'm a liter bike killer.  about half way through the session, not so much. [laugh]

Damn Greg....... that CRF is lighter than you...... no wonder the chain broke [cheeky]

I was hoping no one would notice that!  [laugh]