Ducati Monster Forum

So the other day I got frustrated being caught behind a cager and after I slowed down to get some distance between us I gunned it up a hill only to realize there was a relatively sharp right hander at the top of the hill. I down shifted but had too many revs and broke the rear tire loose and it slid about a foot before catching again. I saved somehow but am not really sure what I did. All I remember was a oh-shit moment and then I think I slipped the clutch a bit and gave it some gas to try and even out the engine and wheel speeds. But I'm not even sure that that's what I did.

What do you do when you lose the rear going into a turn?

Not sure which model of motorcycle you have, but sounds like you didn't properly match revs when you down shifted.  Did the rear wheel chirp at you?  If the rear wheel starts to slide, you should maintain the throttle and not chop it, until it gains traction on its own.

No, no chirping. Just spun it. You are correct that I didn't match revs properly. I was way off. I've been practicing adjusting my speed with the engine more than the brakes and really botched it.  [roll]

This same topic just came up on a different forum, except it was a new R6 rider who was having problems shifting before a turn.  He even had a slipper clutch to help him out.

I'll give you the same answer, though - don't downshift right before the turn starts.  Actually, my advice to him was to not shift at all on a twisty road until he learns to shift more smoothly.  I recommended that he stay in second gear.  On a Ducati, stay in either third or fourth gear depending on how fast you're going.

As long as you're over maybe 3500 rpms on a Ducati, you're probably better off not changing gears.

Since the rear wheel wasn't locked up, just going a bit slower than the pavement beneath it, the bike will usually slide around a little bit, but you're not normally in imminent danger of a high side.  And I'll bet you were more like four inches out of line rather than a foot.  It just felt like it slid out a foot.

So the first answer to your question is "don't do that".  But if you screw up and do it anyway, steer the bike as best you can until it hooks back up.

I kinda like it.....makes the ride more interesting  ;D

BUT I don't make a habit of doing it.

That seems to be the solution to most of my riding problems!

I just picked up my first street bike, 05 s2r 800 and I have the same problem.  Coming off a dirt bike, sometimes I forget that you can't just slam the shifter down on the pavement like on the dirt.  To slow down fast on the dirt, I just slam down the gears not even using the clutch lever.  Works good on dirt, a little scary on pavement.  Do it a few times and you will start to remember to not just downshift so hard, at least thats how its working out for me.

Actually breaking the tire loose in a turn is easy to do.  One good way to help is to install a slipper clutch.

Also maybe your tire pressure is too high so there is less tire surface on the road.  I put my tire pressure on the MAX recommended PSI and my back tire was all over the place.

I thought the 800's come with a slipper clutch? No?

If it's a 2-stroke dirt bike, there is a lot less engine compression which is another reason that you can bang down the gears with no clutch....Old 2-stroke GP bikes were like that too....Much less engine braking....

it's a "fake" slipper clutch, it's more of a dampened clutch in the way it operates.

Q

naw its a 450 four stroke.  Otherwise like you said, slamming down the gears wouldn't really slow me down.  Down shift hard on a 4 stroke and you slow down quick like.

Remember... if your rear breaks loose, never chop the throttle or pull in the clutch.  You're setting yourself to get spat off superman style.  Stay lightly on the gas and keep opening the throttle gently.  Please correct me if I'm wrong.

ive heard a few things, but that seems to be the best answer. just ride it out. If you try to apply throttle, or correct it, you'll just be eating dirt.

get your hard braking and down changes done before the bend then trail the rear brake gently if u need a steadying effect dont use front in the bend a bit of throttle to give bite and all will be well.

Yes, but no >:(
Someone told me no, I said yes. Doubting Ducati marketing and myself I tried going from 4th to 2nd at about 50 and fast releasing the lever = not really a real slipper clutch.

On topic: in a car I would counter steer and continue the slide a second or two with the throttle. On a bike that has to be more difficult, but if I was able to control a bike properly (not yet) that's what I would have tried. Easy ON the throttle and little/no front brakes might be the second best solution? No expert - just thinking

I've had this happen to me on my s2r 800. Came in too hot and hit down from 2nd to 1st i think and broke it loose. I think its best to just relax and much as you can and ride it out. Any quick action would probably upset the bike more. When the wheel starts spinning again it'll kick itself back in and everything will be alright given it doesn't buck you off when that happens. In most vehicles in pretty much every type of situation if you just remember to relax it always helps.

By the way, if you happen to discover that your rear wheel has broken loose while slowing down, there is only one question to ask:

-What would Chris Vermeulen do????   ;D   (The video title says it's Vermeulen, but I'm not sure...)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oemeurLbvTo (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oemeurLbvTo)   [clap]

I think as you get better and more experienced at riding you reach a point where you do things just because they "feel" right even though you don't think about what or why you are doing what your doing JMHO. 

Good answer grasshopper :)  You must have read an article on that somewhere  [coffee]  See you in November!

Misti

I also meant to ask, what else could cause the rear end to slide out on you?

Misti

i never have this problem on my 07 r6 ;) even @ 13K downshifts decels

If you do an OMG-STOPPIE going into a downhill turn after a long straight after outbraking someone because their 600 just plain old out pulls your 75 hp on that straight and they just passed you, but you knew they'd park in front of you unless you were a little less intimidated by that turn.  Not like I just did that on Sunday or anything like that.   :-[ ;D  (Ok, ok, so it was the entrance to 1 at Barber.)

I got my first experience with the rear getting reeeeally light.  It was a little scary on conventional forks, since I know I don't get the same brake feel as I  would on USDs.  I'm sure that to most, it looked like nothing much, but I'm still new to the track, and it was the first time it happened so I can't exactly say I was cool as a cucumber about it.  It felt a bit scary, but I just made a concerted effort to do everything else to set up for that turn.  I backed off the brakes in time and smoothly enough not to let the front suspension hop up, but I did royally goober my line, didn't get a good drive on the exit, and almost let the other rider past in the next turn because of my mistake.  I don't think I ended up pushing the front at all, but the rear certainly did feel... strange in that turn.  [minor threadjack] Unfortunately, the previous rider is 1.5 times my weight, so this thing is sprung like a surfboard and I can't always feel everything that is going on.  Suspension work is next on this bike.  I'm finally getting to the point where my suspension is writing its complaints all over my rubber. [/minor threadjack]

Maybe not so much of a threadjack.  An improperly adjusted shock will also cause unnecessary rear slide.  Too much throttle will compound this problem. 

+1 on the suspension.  Although it's tough to say without having been on the bike, I have an 05 800 and have frequent problems with rear suspension adjustment.  I guess I should use the term adjustment loosely.  I'm 6'3" 220 and the suspension just won't cut it.  On more than one occasion I've hit the apex of a turn and had the rear end stutter on me, both while accelerating (on a normal turn) or decelerating (on a "pucker" turn).  I've not been riding for too long, but I unfortunately think this is one of those damn experience situations.  And now for your viewing pleasure, a picturesque example of you should take care of such a situation-

http://www.youtube.com/v/l6bXqFZCzeU&hl=en&fs=1

^
Awesome [clap]

This is a long download, but the quality is excellent, and it has tons of sliding:

http://www.racerxfilms.com/Supermoto06folder/Supermoto06.html

Here's a decent (if short) article on sliding the rear:

http://www.supermotoracer.com/SMR%20Tech%20stories/iss2_backitin.pdf

+1.  That's what I do and it seems to work for me.  I've heard never touch the rear break but I believe that's for inexperienced riders.  Riding the rear lightly and accelerating seems to be a good way to keep the bike firm into the turn.

Light throttle should be all that you need in a turn.  I can't imagine using the rear brake with the throttle on at any speed over ten miles per hour.  Just use the throttle in turns.

+1

Im with Scott.

Rear + throttle seems like impending doom at some point.

Im a throttle only guy unless Im in too hot, then Ill trail the front through the turn as long as I need to get down to a comfy speed.

When I feel the back end step out a bit I try to do nothing. Keep the same throttle or keep the same level of acceleration. I know it is usually from downshifting to quick and that it will settle itself out if I don't do anything stupid. I also get a little slippery feeling if I cross the centerline (obviously with a clear view of empty oncoming lanes) then cut across it for my line. Then I get some slippage with both wheels. :o Had it happen a few dozen times the other day. The thing is I know it's only slipping a few inches at most. I also know since I'm not letting it hang way out that there is plenty of room for a few wiggles.