Ducati Monster Forum

Update #4  11-Oct-2010

If you have been told by a dealer any of the following, PLEASE PM ME with your contact info, i.e. name, email, phone #, and the dealer you dealt with.  I will be taking this directly to a meeting with my contacts at Ducati.

• You have to have a leaking tank before we will replace it.
• You have to leave a deposit to get your replacement tank
• You have to leave your bike with us until the new tank comes in
• Ducati isn't replacing tanks merely for expansion
• Your bike is out of warranty, no replacement

etc

Also, if you have sold your bike due to the tank issue, please contact me as above.

Thanks

Izaak

Update #3a    28-Aug-2010:  Research links FYI
Some of you have asked for more information on the Ethanol/Water/Nylon interaction.  Some of the info I have is proprietary and I can't post it, but all of the following have the same or similar info and are public.  

Problems with E10/Ethanol absorbing water and then separating are well known, thanks to the boat industry, and manufacturers of polyamides (all) have known for years that (uncoated/untreated) Nylons absorb water in varying degrees depending on the type.  PA6, the Nylon used in your tank, is probably one of the more aggressive absorbers.  (Note: polyamides are a family of materials).

The last PA6 note mentions that PA6 can absorb moisture to 8% of its weight, and that is from a manufacturer of PA6 parts.  I wonder if ~anyone~ at Acerbis/Ducati did any research on PA6 before deciding to use it for a gas tank.


Footnotes:
On Nylon 6/PA6
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/pola.1993.080310119/abstract (http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/pola.1993.080310119/abstract)
http://www.dsm.com/en_US/html/dep/akulonmoisture.htm (http://www.dsm.com/en_US/html/dep/akulonmoisture.htm)
http://www.springerlink.com/content/h046820627255320/ (http://www.springerlink.com/content/h046820627255320/)
http://www.zellamid.com/show.aspx?SP=2&url=202PA6 (http://www.zellamid.com/show.aspx?SP=2&url=202PA6)

On Ethanol adsorption of water
http://www.springerlink.com/content/j2x43q45660x5617/ (http://www.springerlink.com/content/j2x43q45660x5617/)
http://www.oregon.gov/OSMB/news/E10.shtml (http://www.oregon.gov/OSMB/news/E10.shtml)


UPDATE #3 10-Aug-2010 What is known so far:

1.  Ducati is replacing every tank that comes in with any significant deformation.  The main things to look for are a) spreading on the frame mounts (one rubber bumper on each bottom side) b) ripples in the surface or c) pressing against the keyswitch

2.  The correct procedure is to go to a dealer and have the tank inspected.  Some folks have had problems with some dealers not wanting to deal with the tank or claiming Ducati is not replacing the tanks.  So far, this has borne out to be just dealers with incorrect info.

3.  The tanks are made from Nylon 6/6, aka PA6 or Polyamide 6.  They are made by Acerbis.

4.  Nylon 6/6 absorbs water.  Ethanol wicks moisture from the air and gravity causes the water to weigh down the ethanol so that it separates from the gasoline solution.  This means you end up with a pool of water at the bottom of your tank which is readily absorbed by the nylon surface.

5.  I do not know if Acerbis/Ducati coats the interior of the tanks.  I do not believe they do.

6.  Other bikes have had the same type of problem:  Multistradas and Sport Classics.  I have not talked to anyone with an SBK yet, but I have heard rumors those as well.  

7.  Some Multistrada owners got new tanks and had them coated with Caswell's liner.  I have gotten into contact with a few of these folks and so far, they are happy with the result.  Some have had the coating for a year now.

8.  Ducati NA is actively looking into solutions.

9.  I have spoken with the Office of Defects Investigation at NHTSA and have presented to them the data on the problem.  They may open an investigation given the number of complaints thus far.  More reports can only help push this effort.

10.  Ducati NA seems to be engaged, but not to the extent we'd all like them to be.  That doesn't mean a solution isn't coming, but it also doesn't mean a solution is coming at all.  The best thing for me to do is continue working with them until I am convinced there is no more effort on their part.  I do not currently have a timeline, there is no statute of limitations for a defect suit of this type.



UPDATE #2 17-Jun-2010 Please check out HeMan's post on how to inspect your tank for signs of expansion: http://ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=39604.0 (http://ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=39604.0)

UPDATE  ***I am collecting stats on which bikes are having the tank problem and what (if any) mods may be involved.  You have to be on my list (see signup below) to receive the survey link.  That's the only way I can prevent crap responses from getting in.

Please sign up to the list to get the survey link if you haven't yet.  If you are on the list, check your email.

**************


Please see this previous post:
http://ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=20672.0 (http://ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=20672.0)

I am putting together a list of folks who are having problems with their plastic tank expanding.  

If enough people sign up, I'll draft a letter to Ducati NA explaining the problem and ask for them to remedy.  My feeling is that enough people contact them (and are verifiable owners) they will step up.  Otherwise, I don't know -- I am an attorney, I guess.

If you are having problems with your gas tank expanding, go here and please sign up:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ducatiplastictanks/join (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ducatiplastictanks/join)

Or you can join via email subscription by mailing:  
ducatiplastictanks-subscribe@yahoogroups.com


Send this link to other folks you know who might be having this problem and reference the prior thread:  http://ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=20672.0 (http://ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=20672.0)

I made the list private and NON posting, so you'll only get emails from ME directly.  When you sign up, you'll get an autoreply asking you to email the moderator with your contact information, which is necessary for contacting DNA (or anything else).

For those of you who do not know, I am an attorney and whatever you feel about lawyers, I'm a good guy and have ridden for about 25 years now, Ducatis about 24 of that.  I'm not interested in suing anyone, it's not my style, I am more of a "let's sit and have a beer and work this out" kind of attorney.

There is no charge for this at all to you.  If there is some kind of settlement, it will only be with the primary requirement that our tanks are replaced with a non-expanding variety (or at least replaced with a guarantee that it will be replaced again if it expands).  You'll have to be on the list to be part of any settlement.

Your information will be kept confidential.

Good luck to us all.

Just signed up. Thanks Izzy.

Thank you for setting this up.

'tizz, I'll sticky this when I'm at a computer and not my phone.   Let's talk a bit too about details...(vin numbers would be good...as would folks whose tanks were already replaced....DMF logo and 'official' info included or no etc etc.

this is realy one of the big benefits of a forum and community...let's use that to benefit the members.

Thanks, man.

Chris

i put all that info in the list signup (including VIN and Ducati owner's group info if they have it).  give me a call later.

Way to step up!  Thanks.

Since I'm in the area, I'll have to buy you a beer one of these days.......

I stickied it.

good luck.

mitt

Easy fix for the issue...

Under your gascap is a little green fitting, it seals to the bottom of the gas cap.  Simply grab a pair of pliars, and rip that sucker off there... and throw it away...

No more venting issue, and the ONLY downside is that IF the bike falls over, the cap will allow some fuel to spill onto the EPA protected ground.

Its the EPA's fault the tanks are expanding.. seriously..

BTW, by removing the vent seal, you allow the tank to vent quicker, and that unloads the fuel pump and actually gives a slight boost in HP, by increasing fuel pressure.

Will

Tizzz,

do we need to sign up for a yahoo account, or is there a way around that? i am willing to do so if needed, but would rather not.

thanks for taking the lead on this!

herm

I'll add this to the top post:

Subscribe:    ducatiplastictanks-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
Unsubscribe:    ducatiplastictanks-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

Thanks for taking this on.  I have signed up.

I have signed up, thank you for not only doing this, but for also making it available to us without Yahoo accounts!

joined

I'm there- Thank You Very Much.
You da man.

Joined into this.  Thanks for setting it up!

Thanks - just signed up

Wow this thread and the other one opened my eyes to my tank issues.  Always thought something was strange as the steering damper was touching a spot of the tank and making a little dent.  Thought it was just a badly designed mounting point but I had the guys at the shop bring down the one edge of the mounting point a little and it was fine now it's happening again.  Then I read about the dimples on the side and went outside and checked my bike and there they were.  *Pics Attached*   

On another note...  How can Ducati deny a warranty claim for cosmetic reasons.  If your tank starts to look like shit a couple of years down the road through no fault of your own isn't that a defect in craftsmanship?  Granted that warranty is only 2 years but who would continue buying bikes from them if they knew the tanks (one of the main focal points on the bike) were going to be screwed in a couple of years (probably after your standard warranty is up) and Ducati wouldn't fix the problem?

Sorry about the pic quality.  From my iPhone.  My G/F has our good camera in her purse.  You know how chix are with cameras.
(http://i41.tinypic.com/1ylj11.jpg)
(http://i41.tinypic.com/11wc0hs.jpg)

Mine is getting replaced under the emissions warranty here in Las Vegas.  I think more will get replaced if the issue is pushed hard enough.  I'm one of the lucky ones so far.

get on the list anyhow..

i'll be making a letter to NHTSA as well, and they would want to know ALL instances of tank deformation/ defects.

Maybe not so lucky Sikduc- the replacements seem to do the same thing in time(hopefully w/in the 5 yr. emissions warrenty for you).

Hey Phineas: think we should all do the online complaint form on the NHTSA web site?

I'm preparing a form letter for everyone to use for that.  IF you want to go ahead and do it on your own, that's fine, but I want to make an iron-clad list of issues for them to look at.

Also, if you've not had your bike looked at, the ODI/NHTSA form isn't any good since they want to see if you've been rejected first.

So if you've not had your bike looked at by Ducati, then don't bother with the NHTSA yet.  Even if Ducati replaces the tank for you, then fill out the form and report that ti was replaced with the same tank, etc.

Right now just trying to get a good fat list of people to give Ducati notice that a lot of people are having the problem, that we're all aware we're not the only one, and please do something about it.

Cool- glad a smart guy is looking into this- I just make chemicals.
BTW- I got my dealers invoice from 2 months ago stating a rejection through DNA. I'll be glad to send it, along w/ pics of a non-operable tank latch, bars hitting, pimples...
Thanks- J.P.

just put it all in a safe place and make scans if you can. thanks

I hear ya.  But a new tank is better than no tank.  Let's see what happens.

This is true. Just be sure to sign up for one that is alittle more permanent. Those of us stuck w/ sucky dealers would appreciate it!
Thanks. J.P.

Signed up.  Just read this whole thread at work, got home and yup.  My titanium tank is warped by the latch. Bought the bike in March as a nos and have 5000 miles on it this year.  I told them to take the carbon can off before I picked it up too. I noticed that it was a little difficult last time I took it off but didn't thing anything of it as I just thought it was the fit of the tank and I am coming from a metal tanked monster previously that fit fine. 

I'm going to try out Gold Coast Motorsports here in Long Island and see if they can get me a new tank.  There service department is top notch and I buy so much crap from them that I'm sure they will help me out and prob know about the issue already.  Will let yall know what does down.

And thanks for the thread!  Let us unite and take on DNA as a forced to be reckoned with!

I am signing guys!  I agree with this whole process [thumbsup]

Hey- has anyone tried to tell folks on TOB about the sign-up list?


NEVER MIND- DONE.

I know it has been mentioned on the Ducati.ms monster site.

i just spent hte last 30 mins trying to lift my tank. damn thing is so freaking annoying. you have to use a screw driver to wedge the clip and then i had to take of the cover for the immobilizer sensor.

I pointed out the problem to the guys at Indianapolis Ducati last Saturday. Service manager took pics and measurments. Got a call today my tank will be replaced. 

Sweet ;D

Just signed up as well.

Thanks for setting this up

Just make sure when you've signed up to the Yahoo group that you reply to the automated email with your info.  I have an Excel list with everyone's contact info and bike info that I'll be sending to DNA.

I'm on the list, thanks.  Sent my info in.

My S4Rs is now up at MikMar Motor Service (where I bought it) for some unrelated work, but I mentioned the problem to Mike Duzick (MikMar owner and former franchised Ducati dealer; now independent) and he told me to take it to a currently franchised dealer to record an emissions-related warranty claim.

I was up at DucPond picking up my 1000SS track bike on Saturday and mentioned the Monster fuel tank issue to Donnie Unger, and he said to bring the bike in, that Ducati is getting "more responsive" wrt the issue.

Of course, as others have pointed out, if you get a replacment tank under warranty and it was made the exact same way of the exact same materials, won't the problem simply crop up again in a year or two?

My opinion is that Ducati ought to commission a production run of steel tanks to replace the problematical plastic items.

I think that would be nice, but unreasonable considering it would be exorbitantly expensive.

More likely, use the same rotomold with correct materials.  There is no proof, but I bet the problem is ethanol in US gasoline and it would be much easier to figure out how to re-make the tanks with alcohol-resistant nylon/plastic/whathaveu..

that being said, it's only my opinion that is the problem with the tanks.  i have talked with multiple folks in UK and Europe and no one has heard or seen the problem there.  Ethanol is not currently used in gasoline there, but will be rolled out in the next few years.  I imagine they will have a similar problem then.

This is awesome. Got the email and going to head out to the dealer on friday to ask them about it...and buy a clutch. hopefully throwing some money their way might persuade them to take a look at it. if not then, ill theres no more dealers local enough to get them to check it out.

Went to the dealer today and reported the problem with my S4RS. It took all of two minutes and the guy was out taking pictures of the tank. They made note of the ripples as well as what looks like a blister (very small) :o. The dealer ask that I call Ducati and report the problem directly to them and to let them know what dealer looked at the bike.  I'll call them tomorrow but I'm sure it wil be wasted phone call. If this gets covered I'll be shocked.

Mike

What? the dealer made you call?
slack.
Besides- we don't want the same batch of tanks, that'll just start deforming when the 5 yr. emissions warrenty is up.
I'm following Mr. Ducatiz-e's advice in this matter.
Already documented and denied through the dealer, that's enough silly kid games for me.

Not sure why it would be exorbitantly expensive.  Expensive, sure, but why would it be much more expensive than making additional plastic tanks?  Steel tank technology is not new, certainly not new to Ducati (my 1966 250 Mach 1 and my 1973 750GT both had nicely made steel tanks that worked well for many years) and they've even made steel Monster tanks before.  Just need to stamp out a different tank bottom for each airbox variation (what are there, three or four?) and paint them.

They would have to have the molds made (one cost) and then get them EURO & DOT/EPA/NHTSA certified.  It would require a redesign of the pump and interior.   You can't just slap some sheet metal on and go.  The S2R tank is very different from the M900, etc.

Using the current plastic rotomolds, they have no setup or certification costs, just material and labor to remake tanks with better material. 

Far far far cheaper to remake plastic tanks.

Just signed up as well. Thanks for doing this

UPDATE I spoke with a dealer today. They were MUCH more helpful then I thought. Especially since i got a no from a different dealer that was suppose to be much friendlier.

Anyway, They said, normally spekaing it would be plausible if the bike was under warranty, but since im about 7 months out, they are not sure if it would count as emissions warranty because the tank is still usable.

I have to email the main tech guy tomorrow and send him pics plus my vin number etc etc.

Complaint submitted to NHTSA.
Took only 5 min.

This afternoon I spoke with the dealer and got the news.......  A new tank is has been authorized by ducati for my 07 S4RS [thumbsup]. They covered the tank under the 5 year emissions warranty since the standard warranty expired last August.  After the new tank has been installed and I have copies of all the paper work I plan to file with the NTSB.. My guess is this time next year, or sooner the new tank will be just like this one.

I'm waiting for something to go wrong because getting a new tank from Ducati has been too easy. maybe I sould've waited until I had the tank in my hands before posting this..  [laugh]


Mike

lol, nice! did u get to pick a new color? :p, i bought my 06 in 07 and it was swollen already. you can only hope u can get by a few months without it swelliing!

What if you were to use a product called line a tank to seal the new tank to prevent gas from being in contact with the plastic. It is a one part resin used to seal a leaking or rusty tank. Just clean inside, put enough in to coat the entire inside, work it around, let cure a day or two. I have used it to seal an old tank with a hole rusted through, seems to work well and be durable. Leaves a smooth coating but is hard when cured. I used it on a metal tank don't know how it would do on a plastic tank. Just a thought, $30 for a qt.

I agree. The tooling cost would be killer. Scrap at the weld/paint shop end would also be high. No one likes to weld motorcycle tanks any more.

only if it works for plastic tanks. the chemical itself could cause harm to the plastic and cause further warping.

Yup- guess they gotta do somthing w/ the bum tanks. I sure don't want one.
When is your 5 yr. warrenty up?

Signed up and finally submitted my info.

 [thumbsup]

wow. my dealer submitted my 07' tank problems under emissions as well. i was thinking in my head WTF i'm doomed to fail that effort, but perhaps i will get lucky as well  ???

lucky, because i would not want to buy (almost $2000!) one of these tanks, that, as you say, will just fail again. fingers crossed for a replacement but i am still thinking of the fuel cel tank (if they make one for the S4Rs?)

Good luck- but just crossing my fingers was never an option re: gallons of explosive liquid under my crotch. ;)

Signed up as well. Thanks for doing this. I plan to go to the dealership this weekend to see what they say. I'm hoping all you guys used up their reserve of plastic tanks and they'll send me a carbon.  ;D [laugh]

I signed up today. Last Friday, I got my '07 S2R back from a 4 month warranty stay at the dealer for a wiring harness. I noticed that the tank mounts at the bottom of my tank sit about 1/8" outboard of being centered on the frame. After looking at photos I took in Feb '08, I can see that the tank sits differently. There are no problems with the steering lock and I can access the tank latch, but I figured it's best to start documenting it now, as it's only a matter of time before the tank gets worse. I'm going back to the dealer this weekend to see if they will acknowledge the problem and what they might do about it.

2 weeks later no word.

i bought a steel tank with a ding in it. im going to repair it and polish it and PC it. 4.5gal fill ups here i come!!!!

Hey all just signed up.. Thanks

Also just got a call from Speed's Cycle in Elkridge, MD that my tank was approved for replacement under Emission Warranty by DNA and the tank is in.

Good thing, i guess.. One issue though, what do i do if it expands again..

Cheers.

Crazy I just emailed Joe at Speeds about doing the same thing for me.... Small world I hope I get approved as well im swinging by Sat so Chad can take a look.

I would be careful doing this, there is another downide to doing this.. If you pull that seal, you will almost certainly void your warranty and any claim you might have had because you are altering the stock makeup of the tank..

I would give it about a 0.001% chance that pressure is causing the deformation.  There is plenty of venting available. 

I don't think the odds are even that high that this is a venting issue..  [thumbsup]

I don't understand why they would have to redesign the pump or the interior.  I just transferred the pump from my stock steel 1000SS tank to a carbon kevlar ETI FuelCel on my track bike; that didn't require any changes at all.

As far as different versions go, my understanding is that it is the floor of the tank that is different for each plastic model, due to the different airbox configurations for the different motors.  The floor of the tank in a steel tank is a separate part from the rest of the tank.  So, as I said, Ducati makes three or four variants of the floor of the tank, and all the replacement tanks share the same upper/outer/side formed steel shell.  Have any M900 owners had this problem?  Any M620/695 owners?  Afaik, it is limited to S2R800/S2R1000/S4Rs models.

If Ducati makes a DIFFERENT plastic tank (no indication that they are) won't it also have to go through the same EURO & DOT/EPA/NHTSA certification process as a replacement steel tank would have to?  Won't DOT/EPA/NHTSA/TUV etc. have to sign off on any changes to the plastic used, regardless of whether the same mold is used or not?  Are there no material standards for fuel tank design and production?

If they don't make a different plastic tank, and just keep making the same tank, and replace the tanks that have grown/warped/bubbled with the exact same tank, won't they have a perpetual safety hazard as well as a disgruntled owner community to deal with?   What is cheaper in the long run?  That spending the money now to solve a well known problem with a well known and proven solution that will certainly end the anger and reassure the owner community that Ducati is looking out for them, or to continually dick around on a case by case basis, and actually replace materially deficient, extremely expensive components, with the EXACT SAME deficient assembly as a warranty "fix?"

I'm not saying that Ducati WILL make steel tanks, but it is certainly my opinion that they SHOULD make steel tanks to resolve what appears to be a major problem with their product on the market.  I've been buying Ducatis since 1986, and have owned about 15 of them (I have five right now), and this situation angers me to the point that I'm not at all certain that I'll be buying another one of their bikes in the future.  I'll certainly not buy another brand new one until this issue is properly resolved.

My tank is almost worn through from rubbing against the plastic housing of the ignition key. I think it is a clear safety hazard.  Practically speaking, it is also an annoyance and a hindrance to working on and maintaining the motorcycle.   To remove and replace the tank is an exercise in frustration and extra work. 

This past Saturday, DucPond Motorsports examined my tank, measured it, took notes on it, and took pictures of it, and will be submitting a warranty claim on my behalf.   I hope Ducati honors the warranty and replaces the tank.  I hope the replacement tank (if provided) doesn't start exhibiting the same problems as the original oem tank.  But I think it will.  I expect it to.

I'll probably end up commissioning some British artisan to pound out an aluminum alloy replacement tank, unless ETI FuelCel actually comes out with a carbon kevlar tank that works on the S4Rs model, in which case I'd  buy one of those to put this problem behind me.

No.  The issue for EPA/NHTSA is the venting.  Make a new tank means the venting has to be certified. The material is not the issue (rather, getting a new tank certified only requires basic crush testing for NHTSA but significant venting testing for EPA).

I find that surprising.  Guess I'll have to educate myself on NHTSA/DOT/EPA/TUV European motorcycle tank venting rules and regulations.  Sigh.   The things one has to know to pursue a motorcycling hobby these days!

Law school isn't cheap!

Just signed-up.  Thanks for doing this.

Stupid Ducati....

I wouldn't lean too hard on Ducati for the mistake -- gasoline in Europe doesn't have ethanol (yet) and that is looking to be the big problem.  Ducati outsourced the tank manufacture, and I bet the maker (Ascerbis) is actually the culprit.  I would not be surprised if there is (or will be) some litigation on it between them.

what?

OK, now I know what you're talking about.  I should prob. delete my other posts..

NHTSA complaints from monster owners re: fuel system so far:

Year       # reg.complaint
2005               2
2006               2
2007               3
2008               0
2009               0

Compared to the sport classic guys- 27 complaints for 2007 models, and 22 for 2006.
Guess that's why they're getting new designed/formulated tanks.

where did you get this?  link?

Much more likely because they are current, ongoing models.

try: http://www.odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/ivoq/ (http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/ivoq/)

Same pg. as the submit complaint one.
click on "search complaints"
it's a pain, as you need to search through each year, model.
Again- thanks for your attention in this matter. Still haven't heard back from the NHTSA inspectors.
Also I revised my count on my above post.

I just submitted my complaint...  I have a 2007 695, but it wasn't on the pulldown menu so I put in 2007 S2R1000

I saw the lookup now, thanks for offering that.  I'm going to post that up to the sign-up list as a reminder.  People need to get off their asses.

Re:  NHTSA, did you get a report number?  I got one and got an email from them with the report #

yes-got a report # and e-mail some time ago.
Can't believe folks haven't done the online form yet.

WEll it looks like i got myself a new tank, its slated for late august, since well. its august and its italy.  :)

Just filled out the online form.  [thumbsup]

Just noticed problems this weekend, contacting dealership today to see when they can take a look at the bike and put a claim in for me.  Its still under warranty. so I shouldn't have any trouble...

Will sign up later today...Thanks for doing this 

Ive had my bike for a little over a year now, and I have to say I was sceptical about any issues with the tanks. Until now, as I am starting to look over the bike and see what I can do to clean up the rats nest of hoses and wires, I notice that my tank, right side in front of the knee indents, looks like its starting to bubble. I will notify my dealer next week when I take it in for the 7k service. What exactly do you do to sign up? Also, what about the aftermarket fuel caps? Will these cause warranty issues?

Read the first post for the entire explanation of what I am trying to do and the sign up list link:

http://ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=25074 (http://ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=25074)


In Short, I am getting as many folks as possible to put together a polite demand letter to Ducati to fix the tank problems permanently and to warranty the replacement tanks.

Secondly, everyone needs to file a NHTSA report so that this can be tracked officially.  The more that people report it, the more pressure will be put on Ducati to fix the problem.

I just feel bad for the Euro/UK riders who will be screwed when Europe introduces E5 and E10 gasoline in the next few years.  They will have a 2-3 year "Sword of Damocles" over them.  I don't know what recourse they will have by then.

I've got an appt with Nathan at DucPond on Wednesday.  We will see if I can get it warrantied.  I sent him some pics of the swelling and he said it is one of the worst he has seen.  I'll file with the feds shortly thereafter.

Thanks again Ducatiz. [thumbsup]

Angler, what mods do you have on your bike, engine-wise?  I am curious what they are looking for/at when they look at the tanks.

Also, please post your pics? (or email them to me and I'll post)

thanks

Hubby took bike to Dealership Tuesday, they filed with DNA and THursday we got word that DNA will replace my tank  [thumbsup]  I took a pix of the spacing or rather lack of spacing of the tank to the Key the dimpling on the sides was too hard to get photos of.  I will send you the pix if you need it.  off to sign up on the yahoo list and the national list too.  thanks for everything DUCATIZ...

BTW: dealership had told me that Triumph had had these problems and they switched back to metal tanks...gee wouldn't that be nice if Ducati would just do that too  :)

I have no vapor system and boomtubes.  Those are really the only mods that might make a difference.

Nathan said that he needed to take pictures of the bike and take measurements himself.  I also need a TPS check/reset since installing the exhaust, so it worked out.  At first when he said just to email him some pics, I thought I might get lucky and get an answer without having to ride out there as it is a haul.

Here are a few pictures

Area on tank where the key/latch area has rubber through the paint and is now rubbing through the tank:
(http://photos-e.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc1/hs186.snc1/6209_1174345769231_1545666740_442860_6494957_n.jpg)

Right side ripples and bubbles. Oddly there are no ripples on the left side:
(http://photos-h.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc1/hs186.snc1/6209_1174345889234_1545666740_442863_8246045_n.jpg)

Right side ripples II:
(http://photos-a.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc1/hs166.snc1/6209_1174345969236_1545666740_442864_3318327_n.jpg)

Right side bumper:
(http://photos-g.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc1/hs186.snc1/6209_1174345849233_1545666740_442862_101694_n.jpg)

Left side bumper:
(http://photos-f.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc1/hs186.snc1/6209_1174345809232_1545666740_442861_7545765_n.jpg)

Cracks/blisters around filler:
(http://photos-f.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc1/hs166.snc1/6209_1174348569301_1545666740_442885_5260369_n.jpg)

Bump on tank:
(http://photos-g.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc1/hs166.snc1/6209_1174348609302_1545666740_442886_7104941_n.jpg)

Wow- that's horrible! I'd file w/ the feds right now, Your 5 year emissions warrenty is up next year.
Guess that's what the US '06 owners have in store in about a year?

pretty much. Theres a email going around tahts been trying to get people to sign up so ducatiz can submit the email. but for some reason, people are too lazy to check it. Im sure you guys either have him on block by accident, or are just ignoring it.

PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE submit your name and VIN. Just because Ducati will replace it once, does not mean it will not swell again.

NHTSA complaints filed.

Looks like only 2 more for 2005's
2 more for 2007 since my last tally 2 weeks ago.

Filed mine. Also replied to the email with my required info. Hopefully I'll be able to get down to the dealer soon to have them take a look. Is it neccessary to make an appointment? I've never been to my dealer (motocorsa).

Thanks for everything!

Just call them.  The initial lookover will just be an exam and photos.  Mine didn't need an appt

how do you search for complaints without the ODI number? The only ODI I have is for my complaint so that's the only one I can see.. It's not the easiest website to nav.

Same search interface.  Click vehicle button and the search button under

I just heard back from my dealer today, looks like I will be getting a new tank also.  I have also filed a complaint online w/ the NHTSA about 2 weeks ago.

I am wondering if my 5 year emissions warranty clock "resets", so that when this happens in another 4 years or so, I can get another new tank.  Of course it would be nice if Ducati just fixed the issue correctly and gave us all metal tanks as replacements.

Nope.  Neither warranty resets that I know of.

Just got back from Ducpond.  They think I will get it warrantied.  He was a bit concerned because the tank had been repainted, which was news to me.  I'll know by Friday.  I'll file my NHTSA complaint soon.

Ok so I shot you off an email at this address as I don't have a yahoo account.

ducatiplastictanks-subscribe@yahoogroups.com

I would guess my tank is only starting to bubble and isn't as bad as some of the pics here, but I'd like to try and best one step ahead.  I'll make an appointment to have it looked at by Moto Corsa here in Portland. I'm the second owner of my bike.  Is that going to matter? The original owner bought in there.  If that doesn't matter than and they turn me down I'll file my complaint.

it doesn't matter, and you should file the incident report with NHTSA no matter what.

the NHTSA report is not a complaint, it is a report of a DEFECT.  it has no bearing on the dealer's reporting back to Ducati, it is to give the Feds a heads-up that Ducati sold a defective (and possibly dangerous) gas tank on multiple models. 

DO THE REPORT no matter what the result of your visit to the dealer.

I took my S2R in today for the 7500 mile check-up, and notified the tech that i had some deformation with the tank. He took a look and siad he will file a claim with Ducati. He sounded very confident that they would simply replace the tank. Now I am a wait and see. So do I file a report with the NHTSA now, or do I wait until I hear what the verdict will be?

scduc, you were kidding with that question right? The answer was literally posted right above your post.  You must have read it before you posted.

Yeah, I know. my brain must of farted. It's only been a couple of hours, but I think I may be going through withdrawal's. Any way, I fill out th eforms the best I could, cuz there was no report for 08' S2R. I do however have an ODI #. So all is good, yes?

ducatiz , send an email to that subscribe address you gave, and got no reply email....so I signed up on yahoo, and I must be doing something wrong as I have not received any email back to send my info to...what on earth am I doing wrong... [bang]

BTE my new tank is in at dealership will have installed next week  [thumbsup]

thanks

NHTSA monster tank report talley

'05  4 filed
'06  3 filed
'07  6 filed
'08  1 filed

Still haven't heard from an instector, and I filed well over a month ago. Must not have enough on file to make this issue very important.

thanks for posting this.

people need to get off their asses.

Officially off my ass - complaint has been submitted.

Filed my report with the NHTSA today.  Interestingly enough, I noted another 2007 S4RS complaint about failed TPS sensors causing stalling.  I have already had my throttle bodies replaced TWICE on my bike for this very problem.  Looks like I'll be filing a second complaint after I get home and have access to my service records!

Oh, and it's been several weeks and I have not heard back from DucPond about my Warranty claim with Ducati.  <sigh>  Guess I'll have to call them and find out what's going on (or what's not going on, more likely.)

WOOOOOOOOHOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!

I just got word from Nathan over at DucPond - DNA is going to replace my tank!!!

Unfortunately, they have one dark tank on back order in front of me so it may take 2-3 weeks (or more is my guess) to get it done.  That is A-OK by me.......

still waiting word back from ducati on my tank...

Yeah I bet you want a new one especially now

Okay, so finally filed a report.  Oddly, they have 696 in the drop down for '07 when it wasn't offered, but not the 695.  Oh, well.

My local dealer, Renaissance Motorcycles, said they ought to have a new tank for me in about a month.

 [bang] i dont even care if its pink.

one in the pink, as long as it don't stink?

Rode into work today- tank is so bad it's absurd.
BUT-
I'm reluctant to get a replacement. Wondering if I'd get denied a new improved version once our efforts to petition/ pressure Ducati into a permanent fix comes to fruition, claiming that I was already taken care of within the 5 year period.

In other words- has anyone got a warrenty statement on their replacement tank yet?

Thanks everyone!

Still waiting on my replacement. Approximate delivery date 9/14/09

at least one person i've communicated with has gotten a SECOND replacement.

my plan is to get a lifetime warranty on the replacement tank against expansion.  i don't know how likely that is, but it seems to me they have a manufacturing defect here and if they are just going to slap on the same kind of tank with the same kind of problem its not going to do anybody any good -- it just ends up delaying the same problem for another 2-3 years ( and in many cases, new owners )

They have to make it good.  if they sold a frame that broke and then replaced it with a frame that broke, you can bet they would have a lot more eyes on them. 

Make the NHTSA report and go ahead and get the replacement -- and make sure you're on my mailing list.  (see signup info in OP)

Just got my replacement tank yesterday.  No one at the shop could tell me if I was covered if this happens again in another 2-3 years.  Regarding the new tank...WOW, I can't believe how much the old one had warped!!!!!  I have sooo much room at the tank latch/ignition now.   I also had to readjust my steering stops, crickey that thing was wacked!!!  I actually have a near normal turning radius now.   [thumbsup]

Now I just need to replace my tank pad.

Guess that's what we're worried about- in 2-3 yrs., you'll be out of warrenty.

Word from Ducpond is that the warranty claim has been accepted by Ducati and a new tank will arrive on 9/14.

Are we talking about all non-metallic tanks here... such as the one on my 06 S2R1000?

I haven't noticed any problem with it as far as expansion or wavy sides...
Assuming this is on of the potentially affected bikes do I have to wait until there is a problem?
Doesn't seem right.
Once it has been identified as a problem I'd think that there should be a recall of all affected serial numbers... in a perfect world anyway.

So how about this non-perfect world, can I sign up as having one of the tanks that was built with a faulty process or do I have to wait until there is a problem?

All plastic tanks on all monsters are suspect.

No recall yet.  Not enough ppl filing NHTSA reports

I've got about 60 ppl on my signup list but only about 15 have filed.

Not gonna get a recall with only 15 reports on 20 diff bikes (year and model)

Iz i sent a repot and emailed you the number if you need it thanks again for this  [beer]

Just e-mailed ducatiz to subscribe due to my ever-expanding tank .  .  .

thanks! just joined the list...  [bow_down]

When you guys sign up, be sure to reply to the auto mail.  I need your contact info and VIN.

-iz

just filed my report, and I went to a local ducati dealership and they'll be ordering me a new tank.

'Nother sign up to the mailing list. :'(
 

Tally of Latest NHSTA complaints filed
2008-- 2 filed
2007-- 9
2006-- 6
2005-- 6

Outlook is getting better toward a permanent fix. For those still unfiled: please follow the directions and fill out the little form! This might just work and we can get a good tank FO' FREE! And not pay $1300 for the same crap or more for an upgrade.
Time is running out for the 2005 guys.
Thanks.J.P.

given this doesnt work are there aftermarket tanks out there that will last? I really like my bike but i need a bike i can keep for a long time. Idont want to be buying tanks everytime the winter olympics come around

yes there are a few, they are pricey.. none are copies of the stock setup, they are superlight or high capacity models.

My dealer called me today and said that my new tank is slated for delivery mid to end of November. I'm cool with that. Just hope that if Ducati ever does fix the problem and my new tank does it again, that they will re-replace.

nevermind

getting organized and asking nicely sometimes will do the trick.  most small manufacturers (like Ducati) respond well when 100+ people call up and say "we're all having the same problem, why don't you do something about it."  bad publicity is the last thing they need for telling loyal owners to pound sand.

update, the dealership called me (Valley Motorsports in Northampton, MA) today and informed me that the tank was in! This only took 10 days. I scheduled an appointment for early next week and they said they would install the tank while I waited as it only would take an hour or so. I can't thank ducatiz enough for the assistance with this.

well thanks i guess, i am learning just like everyone else.  maybe someone was reading this thread and pushed things along for tank problems at DNA -- who knows?

either way, something is wrong with those tanks and Ducati should make it right.  it's not like it has happened on 2 or 3 of them, it's happening on all of them.

Mine has arrived as well.  I'm going to Indy Ducati and have it replaced next Saturday.
 

i emailed my dealer, havent heard from them..its been about 2 months. will try calling tomorrow. I have a feeling they are pulling my leg.

Mine has also been almost 2 months...  They say it is on the way though, hopefully by the end of the month.  I don't get why some are taking so long, and some people are getting there's in less than two weeks!

probably depends on the dealership, unfortunately.

I imagine part of it is the color, some are more common than others.  Mine is Acid Yellow and was only on the S2R for '05...

Well mine is gloss black.  Maybe that's kind of uncommon

i dont even know what mine is. bike was orignally silver with black stripe. but its black now.

still havent gotten word from them.

got my tank today, what a difference! Again, mine was significantly warped as well.

Just signed up, haven't noticed anything TOO crazy with mine, but I suspect I am getting expansion.

Can one of the people who have received a new tank post a top down of your tank at the latch. I am looking to see just how far away from the ignition the tank is supposed to be.

TIA!

here you go... note the boss on the right side of the ignition lock. On my bike prior to the tank being replaced, the tank was rubbing on the lock and it was almost impossible to unlatch the tank.

(http://home.comcast.net/~c.duarte/monster695e.jpg)

Just filed mine with the NHTSA.  Pull down doesn't have 2006 S2R1000 listed so I filed it as a 2007 S2R1000.  I also subscribed to the Yahoo group.  I'll get the information to you shortly when I get home.

Funny thing was I noticed the tank's rubber feet didn't line up with the frame and I was having a difficult time getting the tank latch to hook up.  I thought I was going crazy.  Love my bike and I'd like to keep it for years.

My complaint was filed with the NHTSA, my warranty claim was filed with Ducati, and yesterday I got the call that the new tank had arrived at the dealer.   Guess I'll have it installed.

Update:

my top triple is now leaving a scratch on my tank in the full lock positon [bang] [bang] [bang]

i just got my S2R and I can't wait to see what shape my tank turn into. the previous owner already had the tank replaced once...  [coffee]

How do you guys get the tanks so quickly?

this is the email i receieved..


I'm pretty sure they are just busting my balls from the get go...

They might be.  Although different dealers might have better or worse relationships w/ DNA.  That might have something to do w/ the expediancy of processing these claims.  I got my tank in 2 weeks; in August.  My dealer tried to give me the ol' "well its August, so don't expect this for atleast a month".  To which I replied, "Really?  I know for a fact that several people form the DMF have gotten their replacement tanks in 1-2 weeks this month (it was august). "
Needless to say, my tank arrived shortly thereafter.

 They told me my tank would be in some time in November. That was 2 weeks ago. So much to my surprise when I get there, to pick her up after the 7500mile check-up, I see a  new tank on bike. Swwweeet. Then they tell me they are closing the doors for good at the end of Oct. I almost wanted to puke.  [puke] This will be the second dealer in the past 10 years to close in my area. Well the first just stopped selling duc's.

go to the dealership and be a squeaky wheel... actually, I took my bike up to a ducati shop I'd never been to before, showed them what was wrong with the tank, and they took very good care of me. I got my tank in 10 days.

Do you go to Corse Superbikes?  I just found that out yesterday too....  That sucks

Yes, Kevin says that DNA "will" be opening a new dealership in the spring. I wont hold my breath, but I would sure be happy if they did.

So what do u guys think i should do. I can show up barking. But theres no point. Its not my dealership, i never bought a damn thing from them, and i dont expect them to help me. I refused to buy stuff from them, and i thought this would change my mind. but it just reinforces what i think.

Ill give them 2 weeks and then email them again and tell them that i know a bunch of people who got their tanks within days. But other then that, i dont think i have a recourse.

Yeah that's what they told me as well.  It would be nice if one shows up in Milwaukee!  But it does suck, they have a lot of good guys working there now, hopefully they can get on board with the new dealership

I think that DNA may be trying to settle the score with the dealerships that are closeing first. Think about it. If your dealer closes and you are still waiting for a tank, you may just be screwed. That would leave a serious issue for many people. However, if they fix the issues with the closeing dealers, that is one less problem to have to deal with. It may not be right/fair, but this way the unfortunate people can say "well at least I got my tank fixed".

I just got mine installed yesterday. I waited 2 months for it.   

Sceduled to drop my S4Rs off at DucPond Motosports in Winchester, VA on Saturday, for them to install my recently arrived replacement tank.

How long did it take?

My new tank is being installed today - the shop said it would take about a month to get the new tank and we're at just under the month mark.

Donnie got mine in about a month-ish if I remember correctly.     Installed it while my Dad and I ate lunch across the street.

Just over 1 hr

Bufala!  Not to install it!

Mozzarella di bufala?  ;D

About four weeks after the inspection for Ducati to authorize the replacement, and then about three weeks for the replacement tank to arrive.

I would love to have them install the tank while I wait, but I have to work tomorrow, and can't hang around, even if they were willing to do it first thing in the morning.   So I'll have to make two round trips....  :-(  Tim

:(  im gotta stop checking this thread.

I just got my new tank after one week and I don't even have a bike.

I finally got my bike back with the new tank today.  It's so small!!!

I was looking around at the used bikes at the dealer while I was there, and every single monster with a plastic tank had the same problem too!

There was also hardly anyone there, so I sat on the Desmosedici in the corner for a minute while no one was looking, and made motorbike sounds  [leo]

they were selling used bikes with expanded tanks??

You know. the tank expansion thing, could begin to explain why i have been getting 3.2-3.5 gallons per fill up. lol

 >:(

He was just messin' with ya. ;)

Yup, literally every used plastic-tank monster had it.  At least 4 that I can remember! :o

Do they do test rides and is there another dealer nearby?

1) Test ride one, to the other dealer
2) Ask for a new tank, let them order it
3) When it comes in, bring test bike back, let them swap it in
4) Swap tanks back, return bike from test ride
5) Sell brand new tank on ebay
6) Profit!  :D

That's a pretty good idea!  Except a) there are no other dealers around, and b) this dealer is going out of business and will be gone before the new tank would come in!  :(

Moreover the other dealer has to do the swap and send the tank back to DNA.  I asked to keep it and was told "hell no"

I asked to just take a core sample and same.  You can't have the old tank.

I have never heard of warranty work being done where the customer is allowed to keep the old parts. I dont think they even let you look at them after they have been removed.

Most of these bikes are out of warranty.  Even the emissions warranty expires at 18k miles, so it's not technically a warranty job for most ppl. 

I wanted some of the material to have it checked out by a lab.  It would be easy enough to determine if ethanol has penetrated.

What are the measurements supposed to be and what were yours?   How do you measure this?

no one has measured the tank, most people go by the location of the rubber mounts on the bottom of the tank, the distance between the latch and front of the tank and the presence of rippling or bulging.

the rubber mounts are supposed to sit directly on the frame.  mine were sitting almost 3/4 inch outside the frame.  they are upside-down U shaped to cup the frame from above and my tank had expanded such that they did not make direct contact at all.

the front latch should open and close easily.  it is designed to be tension locked down and to close without effort.  mine was so bad, the latch sat on top of the keyswitch and actually latching it would require the keyswitch to move forward about half an inch (not a possibility) or the tank to move back (mine was as far back as designed).

lastly, there should be no rippling or bulging on the sides of the tank.

I just noticed the other day that I have a dimple in the tank kinda near the logo and I have wear marks from the ignition rubbing the tank paint.  Those weren't there earlier this year.  I'll have to look for this other stuff too.  I just sent an email in to my buddy at ducati Indy.  We'll see what's up and what they've seen.

God help me if you get your tank before I do. :/

Are you trying to get a tank through ducati indy?

what color tank are you getting?  i've heard now that the silver/black and gloss black tanks are coming slow.

I dont know. They never told me what color i'm getting. alls i knows is, im authorized for a tank...so they say. I emailed him and asked him if he could get me another color like red.

From what I understand, yes, dealers were allowing ppl to get whatever color they wanted. 

Everyone should get something other than yellow, even if they have a yellow bike.

so that means im not going to get the color i want? (until dec 31...im considering myself to still ahve bad luck lol)

I can wait, so long as my current tank keeps working. 

I got my gloss black in <30 days

A friend showed me this place.  Not that I want to spend money on my own tank but it'd be nice if ducati just gave us aluminum tanks

http://www.moto-works.jp/beater/index.html#d9 (http://www.moto-works.jp/beater/index.html#d9)

jizzzzzzzz

I LOVE aluminum tanks. oddly, ive dropped my bike twice and the aluminum never dented even with the handle bar smack right into it. Must of gotten lucky. But they are awesome tanks. wish i still had it.  :-[

I read that Al causes problems in an uncoated tank as well.

uncoated?  in what manner?

if it is properly anodized, it should be impervious to any solvents, including gasoline, ethanol, etc.

Thanks for the link.  I have an e-mail in to see if the fuel injected version of the tank fits the testastretta models or not.   I'd love to get one of these, have DucPainter paint it in oem colors and striping and lettering, and then put my oem replacement tank on the shelf until/if I sell the bike.   I honestly don't expect the oem replacement tanks to last any longer or perform any differently than the ones they are replacing.

that sounds cool.. maybe leave one stripe unpainted to show the metal underneath..

or anodize the whole thing.
Got a kid in private school, so the last thing I'll be doing is forking over 2k+ for a new tank.  :(
I hope the new ones are better- anybody heard of a replacement going bad yet?

why would you buy an aluminum tank and paint over it? Sorry but its like getting a hot gf and covering her up while you hit that.

here was my RR Aluminum Tank polished and clear coated

(http://kuixihe.com/zenphoto/zp-core/moto/IMG_3066.JPG.php?z&p=full-image)

Took a while to show up, but my tank is now definitely showing signs of expansion. :( :(

Just submitted my request to join the email list.

how many miles do you have on the bike and year?

2007 M695

21,500 miles

Well, mine start to swell up.

Took it to Atlanta Motorworld, and they emailed Ducati.
Got word yesterday that a new tank is on the way and should be here in 9 - 20 days.

So that turned out a lot better than I thought it would.

2006 S2R1000
13,000 miles.

Just heard back from Nathan at DucPond.  My tank should be in today, only 36 days from ordering.  I should have it installed in the next couple of weeks.

Pics of my tank expansion (click for bigger images)


Latch will not close at all.  The latch should be approximately 10-15mm from the keyswitch when closed.
(http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l309/ducatiz/DML/th_CIMG0021.jpg) (http://s99.photobucket.com/albums/l309/ducatiz/DML/CIMG0021.jpg)(http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l309/ducatiz/DML/th_CIMG0023.jpg) (http://s99.photobucket.com/albums/l309/ducatiz/DML/CIMG0023.jpg)

These are the rubber U bumpers.  They are supposed to sit directly on the frame.
(http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l309/ducatiz/DML/th_CIMG0025.jpg) (http://s99.photobucket.com/albums/l309/ducatiz/DML/CIMG0025.jpg)(http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l309/ducatiz/DML/th_CIMG0026.jpg) (http://s99.photobucket.com/albums/l309/ducatiz/DML/CIMG0026.jpg)

Side Rippling:
(http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l309/ducatiz/DML/th_CIMG0027.jpg) (http://s99.photobucket.com/albums/l309/ducatiz/DML/CIMG0027.jpg)(http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l309/ducatiz/DML/th_CIMG0028.jpg) (http://s99.photobucket.com/albums/l309/ducatiz/DML/CIMG0028.jpg)(http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l309/ducatiz/DML/th_CIMG0029.jpg) (http://s99.photobucket.com/albums/l309/ducatiz/DML/CIMG0029.jpg)

Full view -- doesn't look like any problem at all from a distance.
(http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l309/ducatiz/DML/th_CIMG0032.jpg) (http://s99.photobucket.com/albums/l309/ducatiz/DML/CIMG0032.jpg)

Can you guys post up what color tanks you are receiving?

I know someone who has  personal relationship with the dealer since hes bought 2 bikes from them, and im going to ask him to re-ask for me. I already emailed the guy about getting a red tank, and he wont respond, cant seem to get through on the phone, and i dont feel like showing up and having some random lady give me a parking ticket.

 

Latest tally on complaints filed:
(for plastic tank monsters)

'05- 6
'06- 6
'07- 12
'08- 1

The only difference from my last tally on Sept 10, one month ago, was only 3 additional files for '07 guys.
Nobody else has a problem.

i have 82 ppl on the mailing list, it's kind of silly.   i think ppl are afraid that the NHTSA will tell on them to Ducati and they won't get their tank replaced -- that's all I can figure..

I filed, enlisted ;) complained and got my tank replaced.
 People file your complaint with the NHTSA or in two years we'll be screwed again...

Dark - DucPond those were backordered but could have got me a different color sooner.

I reemailed my dealer about getting a red tank since i got no response.

My first email (which was the pics and vin #) were sent on July 16.

A response was given July 18th

after two emails asking for an update on August 8th...

Another two emails on Sept 26.

So depending on how you look at it, its been 3-4 months. Still no tank.

I think I'm the only one who is taking this long. Part of the reason why I think they are just blowing smoke up my ass. Maybe they are reading this. But even then, I kept quiet for 2 months waiting patiently. This is just getting ridiculous. :(

Did they say your new tank has been approved?  if so, I would just sit back.  Everything in those emails sounds about right and recently there have been more people getting tanks replaced. 

He Man,  Sounds to me like they are hosing you. My dealer knew the ETA after one week. Now I received mine in extra short time, due to some unforeseen circumstances. I would think that they would be able to give you some sort of realistic date.

whatever is in that email is what they sent me. It sounds like they did when he said the tank is on order.

i dont get why a dealer would do this. wouldnt it be easier to just lie and say no we wont?

[/quote]i dont get why a dealer would do this. wouldnt it be easier to just lie and say no we wont?
[/quote]

That's what my dealer did. I thought he would be sympathetic since he owns an S2R, but he said he'd never heard of the problem and Ducati wouldn't warranty my tank. My bike was still in the 2 year warranty window at that time.

Afterward, I signed up on the list and gave all my info, filed an NHTSA complaint, and still am confident it will work out for the best. My tank is still growing. I had aspired to buy an '07-'08 S4RS, but I noticed the tank issue after I got the bike back from a 4 month vacation at a dealer that couldn't figure out it had a bad wiring harness. The tank problem presented itself at 11,700 miles and 23 months from delivery.

My trust in not only the dealer but DNA has been destroyed, but I was able to fix the underlying problems I'd encounter with an S4RS by buying a new KTM Super Duke R instead. All Ducati would have had to do was fix my tank and I'd have bought a leftover new S4RS. Instead, I'm impressed with how I've been treated by KTM, and the SDR is amazingly fun, so it's worked out very nicely.

That sounds like a pretty bad example. I hope my situation isnt like yours...

in a lighter note, i filled up 3.4gallons today. Whats that say about how expanded my tank is?

I'd go to another dealership. I went to one that I'd never been to before, and they took great care of me. I bought my bike used, and had never had any contact with this dealership before, and again, I got my tank in 10 days.

Looks like i probably wont get  a new color tank, a new tank , anything. lol

Are there any other dealers close enough that can help you?  Your situation sounds like just dealer BS - blaming DNA is just their scapegoat.  DNA and my dealer came through with my tank (and quite a few others here) in less than a month (during the time you have been waiting). 

There are. But if its submitted at one place, the other place would know wouldnt they?

why would that matter? You're the customer.

because the warranty request "was" already been submited....

Doesn't hurt to ask again.  All they can do is say no.  Worth at least a call to another shop to explain the situation and bad service and ask if they can do anything and maybe gain a new customer in the process.

Update:   Yesterday I picked up my bike from DucPond with the replacement tank installed.  There is once again space between the tank and the handlebar switchgear and the ignition lock.

For how long, who knows????

Tm

I finally get around to visiting the dealer today and here is how it goes. First off, as I pull up I"m not getting a good feeling as normally there are quite a few Ducs parked outside, but all I see is a single older model red Monster. Outside are parked all kinds of used sports cars, ranging from a Delorean to Vipers and Porsches. Inside it gets worse, where normally there are lots of new Ducs on display, as well as MV Augustas and other bikes, there is now not a single bike to be seen. Instead there are more used cars, some very nice models including a Ferrari. The counter man who has seen me drive up, steps up to the counter to assist me...

Counter man: Hi there, how can I help you.

Me: Uhh... you still service Ducati's right?

Counter man: Yeah sure, the used car guys took over the show room though. Can I help you?

Me: Yeah I'm having trouble with my gas
tank, it seems to have expanded, have you heard of anything like that before?

Counter man: Oh yeah the gas tanks are a warranty item, I'll go ahead and order you one.

Me: Uhh... OK.... Thanks


He didn't even go outside and look at the bike, just took the VIN # and address off my insurance card and asked for a contact number and said they would call me in about a week.

Thanks for the pics Ducatiz...I decided to look at mine right now and it has all three conditions that you showed in your pics.
I just signed up, hopefully I can still get it rectified.  I never really noticed anything except the rubber bushings hung over the frame tubes way too far.  I figured it was normal. 

Later

p.s.  It's an '05 S2R 800, red w/ white stripe, 15k miles.

Let us know if you get a red tank... im still waiting for mine. its been 4 months.

WOW...

I don't know why I never read this thread.  I quickly scanned it and ran out to the garage.  My tank shows all the signs.  The latch is right up against the ignition/the bottom frame bumpers are 1/2" past the frame!

My bike is an 05 with about 6K miles

I'll call my dealer tomorrow and see what can be done.

You've been waiting four months for a red tank?????  Have they explained why it's taking so long? 
Truth be told I'm really ready to trade it in for an FZ1.  My commute is making the Monster less fun.
I guess if Ducati puts me on the back burner then I won't be too worried since I'm looking to make a trade
fairly soon.

Later

i waited 3 months for a black or silver tank. Red seems to be very common, so i said ill take a red tank too. they said they would try 2 weeks ago. no word back from them.

I finally had a chance to take my bike to the dealer.

He said not to get my hopes up as I am above the mileage for the emissions warranty :( but he will submit it anyway.  I should find out in about a week.

I also went to my dealer yesterday. He took a few pictures and noted my mileage. I left but went back into the showroom a few minutes later to check out the new shirts and he was already at the computer up loading my pictures.  He told ne that "most" monster tanks have been covered.   Crossing my fingers!!

I hope you will still post a complaint with the NHTSA on safety grounds.  The ignition switch housing wearing through the tank until there is a fuel leak directly above the engine should be something an agency like the NHTSA OUGHT to be interested in!

Tim

I absolutely will after I get the word back from the dealer. [thumbsup]

Got mine replaced at 30k - though I was told by the dealer that it was something of a gift and went through because the AZ rep is cool.

I got word from Ducpond that my tank came in last week.  That's right at a month for an Acid Yellow tank.

Ducpond just got mine as well.   [thumbsup]

what color and how long did you wait?

It's a Dark...it's been maybe 4-6 weeks?

I kinda liked the wider tank, but it was an issue on the track. I need to go to the new dealer and explain the whole thing.

Okay I must say, huge Props to Moto Dave and his crew at EastSide Moto Sports! I have never had such exceptional service from any dealership, car or motorcycle!   

Not only did Dave order my tank for replacement and go to bat for me, my 2006 is a year out of warranty, he used his personal vehicle to get me to and from my office. That's service! I will now only go to ESM for all services, parts and new bikes.

Dave made it so convenient to get warrantied, I didn't even have to bring my bike into the shop until the tank arrived. Way to set the high bar!

Now I have a shiny new tank and the reassurance there will not be any leaks. Oh I can latch the tank now!!! It's the simple things in life that keep me happy. 

Man, all I have to say is THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU!!!!

Hmm if it expands enough, think maybe I can get 200 miles on one tank?

Noticed a "ripple" in my left knee pocket a few weeks ago... nothing big, just that the left and right pocket weren't really the same.  Then this weekend I went to lift the tank to plug in the tender (damn cold, rainy PNW winters) and saw the right frame stay was about half way outside the frame, and the latch was almost touching the ignition.  Looks like a trip to DucSea soon.

Just signed up for the Yahoo group.

07 S2R800

not 200. more like 150-160.

mine officially holds 3.4 gallons now.

interesting, i sort of assumed the material would expand in all directions which would make the volume smaller not larger.

if the volume is increasing and the outside is as well, then the tank wall is getting thinner..

NOT GOOD!

Im fine with that. if my tank blows up ill just sue Ducati for a new bike because they are taking so long to get me a new tank. ( i still havent gotten one)

If it blows while you're on it... we'll have to sue them for you.

Someone on the sport classic board mentioned a recall by Duc for those who have problems- this isn't a recall. Anyone hear reassurances that the problem is fixed?

I got my new tank over the weekend.  No reassurances.

I can't believe how small the new tank is.....I can see so much more frame around ignition key area.

Guess I gotta pull the trigger too. Would like to be able to lock the steering again. Or see my battery.

UPDATE

I went to the dealer on October 23rd to have pics taken.  I got an email today saying my tank is in!!!!  Less than 2.5 weeks!!!

My dealer rocks!!

Eastern Cycle in Beverly, MA

alright this is pretty make the beast with two backsed up. I emailed the dealer 1 last time. If they dont want to cooperate, ill just contact DNA and ask them who i can go to because thats 2/4 local dealers who arent willing to change my tank out for me.

I think you just like being a victim... want my spare tank?

My dealer is still waiting to hear from Ducati, he says he's been bugging them. :-\

thats the same thing mine said.

I dropped my bike off today.

My tank was sitting in a box waiting for me!  There was another tank with mine waiting install for a S2R1000.... I was told.

I'm having my 12K service done also...so come spring I'll be ready to roll.

I'm not sure why others are having problems getting tanks.  What kind of relationship do you have with your dealer?  Get services done there?  I do all the easy stuff myself (oil changes, mods, and some other things) but leave the valve adjustments/belt changes for the dealer.  I also buy my oil/filter from the dealer.  ya I know I pay a little more but what $10 more?  They know me and when problems arise they get handled promptly.


Just my .02

I had two very different experiences.  I called Speed's, which is closer to me than DucPond, and they couldn't be bothered.  Acted like they never heard of the problem the first time I called and then the second told me I had to contact Ducati first.  That didn't work as Ducati told me it was something the dealer had to do. 

I called DucPond and they immediately told me to take pictures and email them to their parts mgr.  I did that and within a day or two he called me and said I had a good case but would need to see the bike in person.  One look and 4 weeks +/- later I had a new tank.  Would have been faster except for a backorder on dark tanks.

To that point I had spent roughly equal amounts at both shops. 

I guess I'll chime in here now.

So today I stop at the dealer (GP in San Diego), and the service mgr is talking to me while the tech is sorting out some front suspension issues. He mentions the tank thing and we're looking at mine and I show him a few minor issues and he orders a new one for me. ;D


We'll see how long before it shows up.

looks like i am going to have to do this soon, my tank is now rubbing the ignition on the right side.  if only this would have happened sooner, my local dealer closed their doors three weeks ago.  :(

Look at it the other horrible way.

Say you went in and got them to order you a new tank.

Then they closed.

So you go to another shop, which gets their request from DNA denied, as one has already been ordered for you.



You know it could happen.

that would be funny if it happened to someone else. lol

We all know it's going to happen to you. Your dealer is probably closing their doors right now, with your replacement tank listed on ebay.  :-*

Picked up my bike yesterday with my new shiney tank installed. 

10 days. wtf.

i emailed DNA. they said they will look into it. Im not holding my breath. I alreayd have a steel tank replacement i bought 2 months ago.

ahhhh... i bought my monster used and its an 05 model... i have a feeling the purchase date is past 5 years now... i guess im SOL.  [bang]

My bike was an '05 and I just got a warranty last month.  I would still contact your dealer.

...hmmm. Im gonna head to the dealer right after work! I gotta check the paperwork to see when it was purchased anyway.. haha hope it works!!  [bow_down]

Mine is an 05

went to the dealer yesterday, service manage looked at the tank, took some pix, and sent the request in for the new tank.

While there, i saw a tricolor monster tank that was just replaced as well...

I have a 2007 Sport Classic. My dealer just ordered my second replacement tank yesterday.(11-28-09). My first tank was replaced in April of 09. That tank was shimmed this summer. Nothing offical from Ducati about if they've solved the problem or not yet. My dealer tells me that the tanks are covered for at least 5 years through the emmisions warranty. I haven't had any problems yet getting mine replaced.
There is a group going through PAKBIKES.net that are going to have their tanks sealed using Caswell Tank Seal. I waiting to see how this turns out.

I was just thinking of this the other day.  Like when you repair a rusted tank with POR 15 or something like that....  I just don't know if the product sticks to the plastic/nylon interior.

I don't believe either product will in the long run.

emailing is a waste of time. Use the telephone and start calling regularly...

Who has had an 05 "acid yellow" tank replaced?

So after 5 years, everybody is screwed?

Not necessarily. 

The emissions warranty only goes to 5 years or 18,xxx miles, whichever happens first anyhow, and plenty of folks with much more than 18k miles are getting replacements.

I think the real problem comes 7,8,9,10 years from now when people have bikes with warped, expanded, ill-fitting, abraded, rubbing, possible leaking fuel tanks that were replaced under warranty (or maybe once under warranty, once under good-will, and once - or more - at their own expense), and Ducati - corporately speaking - has "moved on."

What then?   Our bikes are unrideable, unsellable paperweights?   Or those who want to keep them and soldier on, buy hand-beaten alloy replacement tanks?  This is not an academic question.  I  have a 10-year-old Ducate 750SS that I ride regularly now, and I can actually entertain the notion that in seven years, I'll still want to be riding my 2007 S4Rs.... fuel tank permitting!

The biggest question remains in my mind ---- why isn't Ducati FIXING this problem rather than using the short-term bandaid of replacing defective tanks with identical, soon-to-be defective tanks?

Maybe we need to join with other Ducati enthusiast forums to drive a national awareness campaign wrt the NHTSA complaint process that has been so well-documented here.  It seems to me at this point that the only way Ducati is going to alter their response to this problem is if the regulatory agencies force them to.

Tim, Herndon, VA

I have no reason to think they are not trying to fix the tanks properly.

All the issues you raise are real problems.  Moreover, the tanks are identical to the ones used on bikes in Europe, and the EU has approved ethanol to be used in gasoline so it will be creeping into various markets soon.  Down the road, maybe 5-7 years from now, all EU gasoline will have 5-10% ethanol, just like in the USA -- then another 1-2 years, tanks will start expanding.

Ducati is aware of the problem, and I am SURE they have had some chemists look into what caused it -- and if the problem really is ethanol, then they can see the writing on the wall if they do not fix the tanks -- EVERY single owner of an 05-current model Monster, Sport Classic and Multistrada will become a Ducati-hater, and then there will be HUGE publicity.

This isn't the same as the crack-frame problem on the 95-97 900ss or the weak stud problem, because it will eventually affect ~every single~ bike made that is used in an ethanol-fuel market.

I am sure Ducati is trying to fix it, that being said, I wish they would issue a statement on the problem.

I guess that to me (a Ducati enthusiast for 29 years and a Ducati owner for 23 years) the simple lack of such a statement or letter to owners (or even dealers) addressing the issue and stating a clear, concise, consistent corporate policy is evidence enough to convince me that they are not trying to fix the tank issue properly.  Whatever else they may be doing besides replacing the defective tanks with identical new examples of the same tanks - in some instances, for some owners - is not being conveyed or publicized in any forum of which I am aware.

My son rides a 1999 Triumph Speed Triple 955i that is equipped with the factory original plastic fuel tank from my old 1997 Triumph T509 Speed Triple; a 12-year-old plastic fuel tank that shows NONE of the issues we see with the Ducati fuel tanks in question, despite it having hundreds of tanks of ethanol-enhanced fuel through it.  Surely there is nothing too exotic or expensive preventing Ducati from simply switching to the type of plastic that Triumph has been using without problems for all these years?

I deeply appreciate your efforts on this.   I think we have the best organized group of Ducati owners out there for pursuing this, solely based on YOUR efforts to date.

I’m suggesting that perhaps we need to contact/reach out/include/incorporate/add other Ducati enthusiasts who may not be aware of this effort – beyond Monster owners, to include Sport Classic and GT owners as well.   Perhaps a website, perhaps via your Yahoo group; I don’t know.

If there’s something alse I can do to help you out - besides registering with the Yahoo Group, filing my NHTSA complaint, and petitioning for (and receiving) a replacement fuel tank, please let me know.

Tim

As far as I understand, Ducati doesn't make the tank, Ascerbis does.  I don't know who makes Triumph's tanks, but I am sure it isn't easy to rotomold another 10s of thousands of tanks for warranty replacement.

Somone at Ducati has better have a handle on this with Ascerbis.

When I said I thought that there was "nothing too exotic or expensive" (not "easy") about switching to a KNOWN, GOOD, supplier of fuel tanks, I certainly didn't mean to say or insinuate that it would be easy (or cheap, for that matter) to replace all the bad tanks Ducati has put on the market over the last five years.   

I meant that switching over to a new supplier, one with a proven record of producing plastic production fuel tanks that do NOT lose their shape, warp, "grow," or dimple and orange-peel in the first two, five, or even twelve years of ownership, should, imho, be neither too exotic nor too expensive for Ducati to implement.

Of course, I also thought that because Ducati could and has made trouble-free steel tanks by the tens of thousands (perhaps hundreds of thousands) since the 1960's, that perhaps they could or should investigate switching to that material for their current models and even consider it for replacement of bad plastic tanks.  And I vividly recall how impossible I was told something like that would be.

I would have guessed that with dozens of other motorcycle manufacturers selling ten times as many motorcycles (and more) than Ducati, and with Ducati themselves constantly coming out with reliable, well-crafted, nicely working complexities like dohc 4-V desmodromic cylinder heads and multi-adjustable traction control, etc, that either producing or contracting for the production of fuel tanks that don't have all the problems we're seeing wouldn't be so (apparently) impossible for them to accomplish.

It really does cast a shadow over my appreciation of the company, after all these years.  Just thinkin...

I've owned a 1967 250 Scrambler, 1967 250 Mach 1, 1973 750GT, 1975 860GT, 1977 900SS, 1985 [Cagiva] Alazzurra 650, 1992 750SS, 1992 851 Superbike, 1994 916, 2003 620 Sport, and a 2003 999 in the past, and currently own a 2000 750SS,  2003 800SS,  2005 800SS, and a 2006 1000SS in addition to my 2007 S4Rs, and the last is the only one I've had fuel tank problems with, and the only one that has had two sets of throttle bodies replaced under warranty because of TPS sensors going bad.

Maybe I should just sell the S4Rs now while it has a nice, new, replacement tank on it, and start looking in earnest for a 998R and a 750F1 Montjuich/SantaMonica/Laguna Seca to complete my Ducati dreams!

Tim

unfortunately, ducati has had problems with their steel tanks too.. search for "hinge leak"

Yeah, I'm aware of those.   That doesn't mean that they haven't produced hundreds of thousands of trouble-free steel tanks, though.   It doesn't necessarily mean that if they switched their plastic tanks to steel, that those steel tanks would have hinge (or any other) problems... if they've learned from the experience of the past.

The problem is, they are - at least as far the warranty replacement Monster tanks and both the current production and the warranty replacement Sport Classic tanks are concerned - still repeating the errors of the past.

It's not an overnight solution. This problem showed up when? 1-2 years down the road over a type of gas they may not even have had tested?


Okay-say you find a *new* formula for material-how long would you test it for? 6 months? I think not.


In the meantime, you have current motorcycle owners who have tanks that are not fitting the moto, canot be latched unlatched, hitting the bars on full lock, etc-do you have a better suggestion on what to do? All they can *currently* do is replace the tank to keep the current owner moderately happy, while it gets sorted.


I can see them not willing to make a public announcement until after some sort of fix has been devised.

I'm starting to notice some funny business on  my S4RS now. :'(  My S2R1000 seems to be holding up for now.

Oh Santa Claus, if you are real...this is your time to shine big guy. I guess I can always count on the Great Pumpkin. Where do i sign?  [coffee]

I'd like to point out that at no point have I said, conjectured, insinuated, or accused Ducati of dealing with something that can be solved overnight.   Problems crop up in the automotive and motorcycle industry over periods of years.  This is, in itself, not unusual nor is it unprecedented.  There is a long historical precedent for how to handle such a situation, both from a public relations standpoint and from a standpoint of researching, planning, and implementing a practical, technical, marketplace solution.

With the response that we have to date from Ducati corporate (NOT individual dealers) do you have the sense that the company has and is doing everything they can to address the public relations damage from the problem?   Do you understand their approach to dealing with the technical side of the problem?    Has their communication been of such a nature that customers are, in general, reassured?   Do you get a sense that customers are concerned but that the company has done all in their power to allay those concerns?   Perhaps you do, and can share the reasons why.   I don't have that sense of the company's position in this situation.



First, if I were a company executive trying to both solve the situation and maintain communication with my customer base, I don't think that finding a *new* formula for material would be my primary path of action.  Perhaps a secondary, long-term, background search for such a formulation would be in order.

Secondly, since the problems with tanks have been shown to take longer than six months to present themselves, I would agree that a 6 month test would be unthinkable.  Obviously, a minumum test would now have to be considered to be five years, since that is the federally mandated emissions warranty in Ducati's largest single export market.

That's why I don't think that finding a *new* formulation is a viable first path option towards solving this problem.
 

I would suggest that that is all that they *are* currently doing, and it is not remotely close to all that they *could* currently be doing.  And they are doing that in a hit-or-miss fashion amid much confusion and chaos at the individual owner and individual dealer level.  The posts in this thread alone (heck, the simple existence of this thread) amply demonstrate that fact.

As far as having a "better" suggestion for what the company could be doing, the idea of "better" is open to personal opinion.  I would suggest, whether "better" or not, that the company could:

1. Send a letter to each registered owner of an affected bike or potentially affected bike, acknowledging that there is a problem with the fuel tank construction of their motorcycle, and that if they have not yet had their bike inspected, they should do so immediately.   Counsel those owners whose tanks have already been replaced or are pending replacement that the company will stand behind the replacement tank even if the bike's warranty expires prior to the replacement tank exhibiting any symptoms of the problems.  Send a similar letter to all francished dealers advising that it be prominantly displayed in the dealership for those owners who are missed in the private mailing.

2.   Issue a press release that gives the public a general overall idea of what the company is doing to correct the problem, and if the problem is unlikely to exhibit itself in other applications, tell the public why they believe that to be the case.

3. Keep owners, dealers, and the public informed as to their progress in resolving the problem and their timetable for completing all corrective actions.

Now, of course, there are all sorts of potential legal and liability issues with the above suggestions, that I'm sure a lawyer could point out.  My point isn't to say "This is what Ducati SHOULD or MUST do."   My point is that I can think of things they COULD be doing that might prove significantly more reassuring to their customers than what they ARE doing.   I'm not going to debate each "suggestion" and its relative legal and liability and customer relations advantages and disadvantages.  I'm too tired of it, and it won't make one whit of difference, anyway.


I can too, and I can see that doing a great deal of damage to their customer relations in the meantime.

Let me simply close with an observation.  I bought Ducatis throughout the 80's when it appeared the company itself could go out of business on any given month.   I bought Ducatis throughout the 90's when the company changed hands several times and quality issues (regulator rectifiers frying, flaking rocker arms, etc) plagued the company.  And I continued to buy Ducatis through the past decade, and I have NEVER questioned my enthusiasm or dedication to the marque.   My 2007 S4Rs in stock trim was the most fun stock motorcycle I have ever owned.  In its currently modified form, it is, quite simply, the most fun motorcycle I have ever ridden in my life, let alone personally owned.  Seriously.  It is b.a.d.a.s.s., toxic, fun.   I own FOUR other Ducatis right now.   

Yet, if I were to be looking for a replacement for the bike today (I am not), I would be more likely to buy an MV Agusta Brutale 1078R than the Streetfighter.   If I wanted an even lighter, more flickable bike than the S4Rs (I don't), I would look at the Triumph Street Triple R before I would consider a Ducati Monster 696.   There is NOTHING about the S4Rs that would cause that state of affairs, INCLUDING the problems with the fuel tank.  It is Ducati's response to date with regard to the fuel tank issue that makes me feel that way.

Perhaps I am the only one who is affected in this way.

<Shrug.>   Doesn't matter.   

Bugged my dealer again, still no definitive word from Ducati either way.

He thinks the chances are slim, as they have been having trouble getting things covered that are within warranty. :(

Have been watching this thread and my 2007 S2R1K Red for a while and finally started noticing the signs, most visible one of the frame bumbers starting to push outward.  Took it to my dealer today and he said it most definitely has the expansion problem and has sent the warranty request in.  They have handled 5 or 6 of these successfully so far.  In chatting about the problem, he noted that based on conversations he has had with Ducati, it sounded like Acerbis (who makes the tanks for Ducati) and Ducati are in a pissing match as to who is responsible.  He expects Ducati to issue a recall after somebody steps up.

the properties of most plastics are known, quite well.  no long term testing would be required.

my thought would be that a plastic that remains stable in the presence of gasoline, and alcohol might cost a little more than whatever is currently being used. 

How do you think we got to where we are?

try to save a few bucks cost in the end

So....you're saying they knew they'd have an issue, and just chose a lesser material? I maintain it's a surprise to them.

Arent plastic tanks used in several areas of automotive application? I think the issue here maybe, the plastic is safe for use on gasoline, not E10 gasoline.

Does it seem like this issue happens in europe too?

I have personally spoken with mechanics in Italy, Germany and the UK -- none of them have heard about this at all. 

I've posted on several boards in UK and in Italy as well (or had someone do it for me, my Italian is limited to asking where the bathroom and a good hooker are) and no one has heard of it at all.

i realize that it would be a lot harder to detect, but i am curious if there are any shape changing issues with the new model tanks (specifically the unseen inner tank)

anyone have any input?

Well it's been 6 months since I got my replacement tank for my S4Rs and lo and behold today I noticed small ripple on both sides of the tank.  Right around the knee area *sigh*


At this point I am going to wait and see how this progresses and wait until I hear about a permanent fix.  I would strongly urge those of you who have gotten your replacement to still fill our the complaint and send Ducatiz your information.

I'll post up pictures later.

Arai. Can you also post something showing you've had your tank replaced already?  Some people do not believe the replacement tanks are also deforming.

Where do you get your gas?

Only proof I have is an email from my local dealer. I get my gas all along the local mountains of LA county  :(

finally filled out my NHTSA report today (ok, flog me)
anyway...i had to select the s4r, as my bike was not represented (s2r1k)

Did you note in the report the bike wasn't listed?  Its the same tank though

i did

I put my first tank in my replacement yesterday.  The new tank is unbelievably white inside compared to the old tank.  Will keep my eye on any changes........

What colour was the old one?  Mine looks white inside

Like a dark butter yellow color.  The new one is a really bright white.

mine is smookers teeth yellow.

was it always that way?

nope. lol

Joined the group today...took my bike to the local Duc shop last Saturday and was told that they will have an answer for me this Friday...hopefully DNA will come thru and replace the tank...the shop wasn't too convinced since the warranty on my bike expired 9 months ago (it's an '07)...here's to being hopeful....

My bike is an 05.... Well out warranty and I got a new tank without any issues

Your bike has two warranties.  RTFM.

What's your mileage?

I dont think the warranty has a mileage equivalent.


If E10 is to blame then, is it how much fresh e10 is going into the tank? or is it how long the tank is exposed to e10? I hear E10 holds water too, but does it breakdown by itself?

My tank has morphed so much over the years, i wish there was a way to document it.

At first it was really hard to shut the clasp but it sat on my frame. Then it wouldnt sit on my frame and was relaly hard to take on and off. Then it completely did not sit on the frame but was easier to clasp. Now the clasp is useless and it doenst sit on the frame. but i hold an extra 1/2 gallon.


BTW: DNA said they contacted the dealer to speak with me. 2 weeks, the dealer hasnt done anything.

I was told the emissions warranty has a 18,600 mile limit, which is why I'm having trouble.

i was told it was just 5 years unlimited miles.... but thats from the shop that wont give me my tank.  [laugh]

It took three months, but my tank is in and on my bike.
Now its time to get rid of this damn thing..

I would share your sentiment, except unfortunately my S4Rs is currently not only the most fun motorcycle I've ever owned (of about 45-50 bikes over 31 years) but it is the most fun motorcycle I've ever ridden at all, and if I'm down and crabby and just out of sorts, all I have to do is go out for about 2-3 miles on this thing and I can't wipe the silly grin off my face to save my life, and people think I'm on some kind of drugs!   So, I'm hoping for an eventual, permanent, fix.   [thumbsup]

The guys on the Multistrada site report a dealer who uses the Caswell coating for the new tanks and has good success so far.

I might talk to the guys at Ducpond about doing this for mine. 

I think you have to do it before it's had gas in it though...

Thats the thing -- the same tank that was put on last week is the same tank they put on the first time.
It's crap then, and it's crap now.

So in two years when this thing swells up like a bee-sting again what are we going to do? We are lucky as it is to fall in the emissions warrenty. I highly doubt we'll be getting another $1800 freebie for the next one when we are out of the 5 years.

I just read about this product  www.caswellplating.com/aids/epoxygas.htm (http://)  on LT Snyders site, desmo times.. According to his blog this stuff will work on plastic tanks although who knows for how long. Another who knows is, will this stuff even work at all if you've allready exposed your tank to E10. 

Mike

i just got another email from DNA. they were kind enough to email me following up on this matter.

They emailed me 2 weeks ago telling me they spoke with the dealer and the dealer will call me. (they havent called or left a voice mail or emailed)
They emailed me again today asking me if it got replaced.

how bad is the tank now? after sitting with a full tank of E10? The clasp is completely useless other then not allowing the tank to flip over.... it will shift left or right What does that mean? My bike is useless cause im not going to ride with my knee hooked in and feel my tank shift causing me to shit my pants thinking im falling off the bike.

However it is winter, i wont be doing any of that, so Im just hoping DNA will do the right thing and just authorize the work somewhere else. Ill be glad to go.

jeebus

sorry to hear that

i used a bungee cord on mine when the latch got bad.  i got a bungee with plastic hooks and hooked it onto the trellis.  reaaal rat bike looking... but it kept the tank in place. 

Yes, if you read back through this interminable thread, that has been exactly my concern as well.    But I'll figure it out one way or another; whether it's having a custom alloy tank beaten for me in England, or buying an older steel Monster tank and modifying it to work on my S4Rs, or taking a ETI FuelCel carbon-kevlar tank for one of the older Monsters and modifying it, if I have to, I'll figure it out and keep this bike.

Steel tank is the easiest way to go. I have one with a small dent in it that i plan on fixing adn throwing it on my bike ,however, undoubtly, my bike will probably get knocked over again, so im wondering how it would look if i punches it in myself and made it flow with the tank.. lol


So i got an email back from Ducati of North America

"Dear Kui,

I am not getting anywhere with the dealership on your fuel tank. Any chance that you can go to Rockwell Cycles in Ft. Montgomery NY?

Regards,"

Seems like they cant even get the dealership to replace my tank. Thats fine, i heard that place is shutting down for restructuring the management.

wait, so DNA will replace it, but the dealer won't do the work?  that's really nice. 

Nah, apparently DNA getting in touch with someone at the dealership, is just as bad as me trying to get in touch them. THey just dont pick up the phone or respond to emails.

Eitherway....atleast i can do it.

Now comes the fun part.

If my bike gets totaled, and i dont want to buy it back, I am willing to swap the new tank i get with anyone here who has a spare tank that is bad, for free. just pay shipping both ways and youll get a brand new tank that you can coat or do whatever you want.

I will be trying to get a red tank. or black.

I'll take it.. 

Joined...

I joined about 3 weeks ago. Ducatiz thanks for your work on this. Since joining I have gone to my dealership and they put in a claim to DNA for me. I just got the news that I was denied a new tank due to the mileage on my bike. Apparently the emissions warranty is 5 years or 18K miles. My odometer is at 23K.

Wow! So that's how they are gonna play it?
So now you gotta buy a new tank?

Nope, I'm gonna call DNA directly to see if I can get it handled.

So where's the list of those you had no problems and those still waiting? I cant help but think that a lot of this is not DNA but the actual dealer.

this is my feeling also.  I got my tank in less than 3 weeks. From what I read about "He Man"....  it seems to be his dealer and not DNA   

Spoke to my local dealer the other day, he took some pics and sent them off to DNA.  Didn't hear back right away so I called the guy at the dealer and asked for the cust. svc. reps # at DNA and called him.  I've been given the green light on a new tank under the Emission Control warranty.   [thumbsup]  So now I wait for who knows how long until they build my tank, but I'm a happy camper that they took care of the issue w/ no hassle whatsoever.

Later

Anyone else have the feeling that DNA or the parent is just going to replace the tank with the same, until no longer obligated by US federal law to do so?
Anyone hear news by Duc or Acerbis actually admitting that there is a problem or if the replacement tanks are any different?
My tank now is showing a crease in the side. Like it's been dented.

ugh, that's exactly what they did with the 900ss frame cracking problem.

  The guy at DNA told me that the composition of the new tank has been altered to deal w/ the problem.   [roll]
We'll see.  Since the dealer that's taking care of my tank also sells Triumphs, it might just be time for that matte black Speed Triple.

Later

Actually, up until a couple of years ago, they were still replacing those frames with new ones.  They may still be doing it, I don't know for sure.

You don't understand my analogy.

Also, Ducati was no longer replacing SS frames as of 2005.  I have direct knowledge.

OK

Called my dealership and they said just drop it off and we will start the process.  Now I just need to find the right balance of weather and a person to give me a ride home.

Dropped the bike off today, Saturday.  The girl at the dealer said she could get the tank by Thursday and done by the weekend. :]

Finally in town long enough to try a different dealership this week.  Just talked to them on the phone and I already got a better vibe than the last place, fingers crossed.

Haven't looked through this thread in a while, but if you don't have something resolved yet I have this to offer - DNA replaced my tank even with me being over the mileage.  My dealer mentioned the mileage limitation (I think I was right about at 30k) but said he'd try it anyway and didn't really forsee a problem.  And there was no problem.

Ducati has been replacing tanks regardless of mileage. They are trying to put them under warranty but where a tank is out of warranty, they do it as a "good will" swap.

I think this is great, I just fear that down the road some currently unaffected bikes will have the original tank.  Without an official recall, there is no way to know what bikes got a replacement tank.

This is the same problem with mid 90s 900SS which had a bad head weld design and would crack at the yoke.  Ducati replaced those frames even 10 years later, but since there was no official recall, if you are looking at a 94/95/96 900ss, you have NO WAY to know if the frame was replaced or not.

I just got word from the second dealership that Ducati will cover my tank, it's now on order. [thumbsup] [thumbsup] [thumbsup]

Pretty amazing...the first dealership specializes in Ducati, MV Augusta, Triumph, and other European brands.  I went there because that's where I bought my Duc originally.  When I had called them up, they didn't seem to have any familiarity with the expansion problem.  When I brought it in, the service guy acknowledged that my tank was expanding but told me that it was very doubtful that it would be covered as my mileage was too high and they were having trouble getting "legitimate" warranty claims covered as it was.  I called them to follow up several times over the course of a few weeks and never got a straight answer.

Before contacting Ducati NA, I felt obliged to try the other relatively close dealership, even though I had been warned against ever going there for service as they are primarily a Honda dealership that also carries some Ducatis.

I sent in an online appointment request on Monday describing the problem and asking for an appointment to come in and have my tank evaluated.  I got a call back 2 minutes later, the guy there was clearly very familiar with the tank problem and its cause, and told me to come by anytime.  I went by yesterday, he was not concerned about my mileage, he's never been turned down yet for a tank replacement  :), and mine was the worst example that he's seen so far. :P  He also clearly knew his way around a Monster.

He told me it would take up to a week to get an answer back, but he called me today and told me it would be replaced. ;D

Oh, and he made an interesting comment - apparently the tanks shrink back down again after they've been empty for a while.  He said that they have shipped a number of the bad tanks to Italy and they seem to have shrunk by the time they arrive.

Congrats!  That same dealer replaced my tank both times.  And my cylinder heads + extras.  I was always happy with their work and professionalism.  They seem to have a very good relationship with DNA, which can make a big difference.  No reason a shop can't handle more than one brand well!  Thumbs up for HPD.

BK

I got the same story as well from DNA.  This is an interesting piece of info which means the permeability of the inner tank skin is absorbing and then leaching off the gas or ethanol.

Thats werid. Wouldnt the gas permate to the underlining paint and begin to dissolve it?

also, i found it really odd, but before my bike sat for 2 months straight. i filled the tank up, and when i first took it out, the tank was 1/2 empty....

Not necessarily.  There is likely a limit of how far it penetrates.  Also, some people have reported surface spots being soft/mushy as if there is liquid underneath the paint layer.  also, i would assume the paint to be resistant to gas (or we have yet another problem!)  to deal with spills.


that is weird and if it happened to me, i would drain the gas assuming all the volatiles have come off and only water and ethanol is left! 

seriously, was your gas siphoned?  it could have expanded such that the volume inside increased as well, so the tank was 1/2 full.  imagine liquid in a balloon, full.  then blow some air inside long with the liquid.  same thing.

Just an update on mine.  They said shipping of the tank is taking longer then expected.  So still waiting for mine to be fixed.

I finally got around to filing my NHTSA complaint, thanks for the reminder.

I just did mine also.... thanks for the kick in the pants email.  [thumbsup]

Toyota was pushed to do a recall because of only 100 complaints to NHTSA -- for 2 million cars!

If you have been waiting to file with NHTSA, do it now.  Ducati sells around 35,000-40,000 bikes WORLDWIDE.  Toyota sells >1 million worldwide, and ONLY 100 COMPLAINTS pushed them to do a recall!

Took a tally of NHSTA complaints on Fuel Systems- tank expansions (m.y. 2005-2008)2 days ago:

For Monsters: 37

Sport Classic: 74

Multi Strata: 3

Looks like we got over 100 if we can get it together w/ the SC guys. Still no official word from Ducati that there is a problem. I'm reluctant to take my bike in for a replacement, as we may need to haul it into court in DC as evidence.

No bike needed for evidence.   There are plenty of people aware of the problem.

Let Ducati replace it, there is no reason to hold out. I believe they want to make them all right. 

I have a 2005 Multistrada with this problem. I thought the reason for the increasingly tight tank-to-frame fit and the poor rear bodywork alignment was a bent frame - until I sent it to GMD Computrack in Atlanta to have the frame measured/aligned, and they spotted the real problem. I called my dealer and was told they had another MTS waiting for a back-ordered tank which is being handled as a warranty replacement, but they took my VIN and said that they would try to get my out of warranty machine on the list for a "Customer Good Will" replacement.

I'm signing up on the Yahoo group list just in case Ducati runs out of "Good Will". I was seriously committed to selling both my Ducs for a new MTS 1200 this April; now I'm on the fence.

Hi Pinocchio

The only instances of tank replacement refusals I have heard about are due to the dealer.  If you read this thread, some folks have called Ducati in Cali and been told to go to another dealer.

So far, Ducati is replacing tanks without exception.

My only concern with the replacement tanks is that several people now have reported having to get a second (and one has gotten a third) replacement tank. 

-tiz

Yeah I have a 08 s2r1000 and had them replace one gas tank already because there was ripples in the side of the tank and that was within the first 5 months of owning it.   just noticed the other day tho when filling up the inside plastic of the gas tank liner is warped like crazy...  ???  so in not too long from now ill probably be looking at another gas tank...    sucks...

My concern as well. If the problem happens again, hopefully Ducati will have the problem fixed or it will be time for me to buy a new bike. The thought of selling my S2R is something that is inconceivable.

IMO (and forgive me if this has been said before), Ducati does not see this as a problem outside of markets where ethanol-blended fuels cause the problem.

Ducati Bologna is probably observing Toyota's recent misery with great apprehension at this moment. Submitting to a recall of this size could force a small company like Ducati into receivership, not just from the cost of the fix, but from damage to the brand image in the North American market. The last time the Italian government ran Ducati, the brand barely survived.

If and when we get our new tanks from Ducati NA, we would be doing the company and ourselves a favor if we coated them with epoxy tank sealants and moved on with our lives.

AFAIK, there are not a lot of epoxy tank sealants designed to stick to nylon. Also, why the make the beast with two backs should I? They sold a screwed up tank-if the fix is that easy *they* can do it.

There's currently a 695 sitting in the garage that can't be ridden because the steering damper hits the tank. One can't lift up the tank, for fear of never being able to latch it again, turn the bars full over, or lock the steering. This is not acceptable for a three year old bike.

It should not be a hard concept for a manufacturer to realize that it might be a good idea to test their brandy-new-never-before-used materials with the chemicals those materials will come in contact with and check for adverse effects.

It'd be cool if they actually would issue some sort of formal notice that they will be supporting this issue, other than that, I have no interest in replacing the tank, even with a coating, and waiting to see if I have this problem again.

Should they actually replace the tank, the bike will be sold immediately after.

yep, I'm seriously leaning that way too, was going to replace my 2003 Monster w/ a newer and bigger Ducati but the plastic tank issue (and Ducati's response to it) has killed that idea.  FWIW test rode a 2009 Speed Triple this week and liked it a LOT...AND the 2008+ models have steel tanks as Triumph evidently had some less serious plastic tank problems on the earlier bikes.  Interestingly, from what I've read Acerbis made the tanks for both, am curious what the differences are since it looks like problems are far less common on Triumphs...

With respect, I don't feel inclined to point the finger at Ducati. The bikes with plastic tanks have been around for quite awhile and were no doubt tested with European gasoline blends, or US pre-ethanol blends, and passed the US emissions standards, or they couldn't have been imported. Ethanol blending was mandated in the US in 2006, and was only increased to the current level of 10% in 2008. So now we are just starting to see one more of the side-effects of misguided energy policy. The other far-reaching economic effects of ethanol blending are troubling enough to my conscience for me to consider my tank swelling problem to be trivial.

And I would never buy a Speed Triple, I already have an S4RS. When I sell it, I will buy another Duc. It may not be logical, but there it is. [laugh]

Ethanol blend (E10) has been mandated in 11 states (which follow CARB) since the mid 80s, when MTBE was banned.  Many states required "oxygenated" gasoline during winter months and use ethanol for that purpose, and the feds have pushed for the use of Ethanol E10 since 1982 with tax benefits:

"In 1982, the Surface Transportation Assistance Act raised the gasoline excise tax from 4 cents/gallon to 9 cents/gallon and increased the exemption for 10-percent ethanol blended gas to 5 cents/gallon. In 1984, the Tax Reform Act increased the exemption again, to 6 cents/gallon. The Alternative Motor Fuels Act of 1988 created research, development and demonstration programs for both vehicles and fuels and provided fuel economy credits for automakers. In 1990, through the Omnibus Budget Reconciliation Act, Congress extended the ethanol tax incentive from 1992 to 2000 but decreased the incentive from 6 cents/gallon to 5.4 cents/gallon."

So unless they developed the nylon/plastic in the early '70s, I highly doubt that's the reason (**If the real problem is ethanol, which I am not 100% convinced of**).  Ducati NA is based in California which has had E10 for ages, and MTBE before that, which is far more pernicious to HDPE than ethanol is.

I've just emailed you my updated info and pics regarding my tank. In short, my dealer denied there was a problem.

Please give a friendly call to Ducati NA in California.  408-253-0499.  Keep your cool and just tell them what happened.  Ask to speak to someone to help you with a tank expansion problem.

A handful of people have had dealer problems.  In short, take it to another dealer.

I have a 1999 Triumph Speed Triple 955i in my garage right now that has the 1997 T509 bodywork on it from my original Speed Triple.  Nylon tank.  13+ years old, plenty of ethanol-spiked gas, looks and fits fine.   The 955i bodywork that was sold with the '97 Speed Triple was *also* perfect at the time it was sold.

That jibes with what I've read, there have been some isolated problems w/ Triumph plastic tanks, but nothing like Ducati...am curious why the difference (materials? design??) as both were supposedly made by Acerbis...also would be interesting to know why Triumph switched to steel two years ago. 

Evening everyone,

My 2007 S4Rs is in for her 22,500 service and I too have the deformed fuel tank. First noticed in early Dec while lifting the tank to check the air filter. Tank was butted up against my ignition switch. Then, once opened, could not latch. Dealer has not seen this issue themselves. I have left a voice message for a rep at DNA, ext 4404. Used to be Mike Norman but I do not believe he is there anymore.

Then I google and found this thread. I joined the yahoo group and took the survey and filled out the requested info for the yahoo moderator.

I also searched NHSTA. Found something about water pump impeller.

So thats it for now.

Duane

2007 S4Rs

Glad you found this website, there's a lot more on here than just the tank problem thread!

If you haven't read the whole thread, so far, Ducati is being good about replacing every tank that comes in, regardless of the mileage limitations on the warranties.  They need to do an official recall, though.  If you have a problem with your dealer, call Ducati (you already have it seems) and/or take it to another place if you can. 

They need to a recall though.  This is going to affect the future value of the bikes if they don't do a recall.  It's not like they can sweep this under the rug.   Too many people are talking about it this time.

Got ahold of TJ at DNA Fri afternoon. He acknowledged that this is a known issue and asked that I instruct my dealer to call their regional Duc rep. So I called and they are. So fingers crossed.  My bike is high in milage. Over 24,000. But has never been down. Not modified except running sans cans. Only udder and snazzy turned out tips (made from the OE pipe so stainless matches!). No stickers or after market paint on the tank. So hopefully this goes smoothly and I get a replacement tank (that won't warp in 3-4 years too).

Duane

My local dealer told me that Ducati is supposed to come out with a better tank that will not have the same issues in March. From what they said, the current batch that they've been sending are basically the same tank, so the issue would simply reappear eventually. I put in the claim to have the papaer work done before the 5 year deadline, but I probably won't see a tank until April or May. I don't know if this was already discussed, I'm too lazy to read through the whole thread, but keep this in mind when you go to the dealer.

what is his source?

I can call him today, but I think they're closed on Mondays. I'll check and let you know.

Closed today. I'll try to remember for tomorrow.

This would be great if it turns out to be true

That's exactly why the dealer asked me to wait until March. Why replace the thing if it's just going to happen again?

oh snap!

man I dont know if your dealer is telling you all the story. I doubt its going to be any better or worse then the tanks on there. What about the ones they already replaced? Dunno, but I doubt Duc is going to put much effort into a bike thats discontinued for a tank that may warp in 4 years. BTW, I finally submitted my NHTSA complaint
 [popcorn]                                  

hey, been a while....
took the 696 in for some issues and discovered that its tank has expanded,
and in talking to the mechanic realized that my 07 s4rs has, as well, the tank is butted completely up against the ignition switch
and unable to be unlatched...
dearlership/ parts stated that they had had some others as well and had ordered warranty replacement tanks in december
before christmas, with no deliveries as of yet...
have to take the s4rs up there for a eyes on to ensure that this is in fact my problem, but it certainly seems to be the case...
and again,
my 2006 triumph speed triple, just returned from its 12,000 mile service, has had zero issues with tank deformation...
dunno....:(
so, BOTH my monsters have this same tank deformation issue....
:(
but the dealership seemed certain that they would both be replaced under warranty....
Euro Cycles Tampa Bay  www.bmwrides.com (http://)
good guys there, zero complaints or issues, ever.

rode the RS up to eurocycles today (nice ride...!!! [evil])
yup, its tank is deformed as well....
both the 696 and the s4rs have warranty replacement tanks on order,
no questions asked...

as an aside, the service writer (jeff) told me that ducati has to reimburse the dealership parts department
for the RETAIL cost of every replacement tank,
to the tune of something like $1800-2400 USD....
call it $2000 per tank.
damn....!

he also told me that the 696 tank, already in motion, would probably have a delivery date of april at the earliest....
....just  some more data for everyone to chew on......

Woa, the 696 has tank problems? I thought that tank was concealed by side panels. How did you come to realize it had problems? Since its covered, and one wouldnt normally notice blemishes with that style, was it just not fitting right anymore?

when i took it in to the shop it was noticed
that there were fitment issues at the "gap" between the rear of the tank and the seat....
like the tank had swelled up TIGHT against the seat....
apparently this is a known issue as well since they immediately filed a warranty claim
and the new tank is already in the pipeline somewhere...
although its a "skin", the internal actual fuel bladder/ tank had swelled up against the skins enough
to push them waaaay back against the seat....

wow.. this is the first 696 i've heard with the problem

i wonder if any 1100s will show it...  ugh..

Yeah, this isnt really good news to hear.

If the new monsters are having tank problems as well, DNA is going to HAVE to do something, right?!  Some unlucky person is going to have a tank start leaking while riding then explode in flames if they don't, and given the shitstorm Toyota is going through over the gas pedal issues, I can't think Ducati is going to want to be put into the negative spotlight as well.  I hope this crap finds some kind of resolution soon.

just rode QSL tonight with matthew (sport 100 w termis)
and matt (s2r orange)
euro cycles was in attendance with their truck and assorted bikes, half the staff...

when we met at my house, i asked them if they had noticed their tanks expanding, they didnt know about it...
sure enough, matthew's sport 1000 has expanded all the way up against the ignition lock as well...
he states he noticed a YEAR ago that his bars were hitting the tank,
he went and adjusted his steering stops out until they no longer hit...
apparently didnt swell much since then, but there is an apparent point where the ignition cylinder has rubbed through the tank stripe...

jeff, service writer, euro cycles , was there tonight, discussed it with him out front,
he didnt even need to walk around back to look at matthews bike,
told him to call with the V.I.N and etc and hed get it taken care of...

Subscribed.  Thanks  [thumbsup]

We've got about the same number of NHTSA complaints filed about this obvious safety hazard as have been filed against Toyota for 2009 Camry Sudden Unintended Acceleration problems.   There are about 11ty billion times as many Camrys as there are Ducati Monsters and Sport Classics.

Where are OUR headlines and congressional hearings?????    [evil]

Write/call NHTSA. 

NHTSA Headquarters
1200 New Jersey Avenue, SE
West Building
Washington, DC 20590

Toll-Free: 1-888-327-4236

I hope what duccarlos said about the March tanks is right.  I left my bike at the dealership on January 23rd and all they keep saying is we are still waiting for the tank.  If new tanks are coming in March that makes me feel better.  They said my claim got approved but they are just waiting for a tank.  If my bike wasn't an hour away I would go pick it up while waiting but just so much hassle.

They had told me March, but knowing the eyetalian, it will take another month or 2. I did not leave the bike at the dealer.

just a thought but has anyone installed a heat shield material under the tank?
i know this is not a solution but it may help with future problems.
i'm also having problems.

the problem isn't related to heat.   if it were, there would be similar problems in Australia, Japan, Italy, UK, etc.. No one in any of those countries has reported an issue.

I spoke to the service guy that got the info from the regional service rep. I don't think they want to make it too public since the service guy got weirded out when I mentioned that I had posted it on a board. Of course the dealers don't want to deal with the hazzle of warranty work.

Why would a dealer not want to do the work?

They get paid at retail.

I think it takes the factory a long time to pay up, from what I understood from a conversation I had with someone that refuses to do warranty work anymore.

My understanding is it gets credited to your parts account or vehicle account immediately.

The kicker is that Ducati drops the retail prices of the parts to reduce the burden.

A dealer can't, according to most franchise agreements, refuse to do warranty work. I call BS. ;)

He's no longer a dealer. Service and performance only. Not very high on Ducati's list, but it might be BS since the anamosity is shared.

I had one dealer that didn't want to deal with it at all, and another that is more than happy to take care of it.

I just called mine up btw, tank still back-ordered with an ETA (I think of leaving the factory) on April 13.

Went and picked up the bike today.  My dealer said the same thing somegirl, tank back ordered till April 13th and they did find a fix.

I will be taking my bike back once the tank comes in.

So what's the scoop with this fix? I had my tank replaced once, and the new one is already moving closer to the ignition switch  [puke]  >:(

I am always interested when dealers report a fix, but the manufacturer has not. 

Just take those reports with a grain of salt. 

Chalk up another data point for a 2008 model.  I joined the Yahoo group and submitted my complaint on the NHTSA site.  

I wish I had read this posting a month ago.  I just bought a beautiful black 2008 S2R1000 I found with only 76 miles on consignment at a local dealer.  Everything on the bike seemed perfect until I read this post.  After work last night, I went out to the garage to inspect my tank and sure enough, she's swollen like a SOB.  The front of the tank is rubbing the ignition housing and the right side frame pad is pushed out 1/4."  

This is what I told the NHTSA:

The plastic fuel tank on my 2008 Ducati Monster S2R1000 (selected Monster 696 as vehicle since S2R1000 was not an option) is swelling to the point it is rubbing against the ignition switch housing and no longer sits on the frame for proper support.  This is a serious issue because of the fire risk if the tank were to wear all the way through and allow gasoline to spill onto my ignition wiring and hot engine.  Obviously, a fuel leak occurring while riding the motorcycle could result in a crash, injury or death, and property damage.  I also cannot lift the fuel tank as designed by Ducati to service the motorcycle.  

I understand this is a problem affecting several Ducati models from 2005 to present.  My motorcycle was originally purchased in September 2008, currently has less than 700 miles on it, has not been modified , and, other than this serious defect, is in brand new condition.

I think I will hold off making a warranty claim until I know the replacement tanks are revised to prevent a reoccurrence.  Are there other weaknesses I should look for on the bike?

-Jeff

Jeff you should go ahead and get your bike to a dealer.  I have never heard of such a low-mileage bike having a swelling problem.  I assume it is due to the bike sitting with gas in the tank.

This board has plenty of info on your bike, I don't think there are a huge number of problems.  I know the S2R1K has a surging issue related to the exhaust sensor and there are several options for fixes, but poke around in the tech section and you'll find what you need.

You mean the dealer should take the info from the regional rep with a grain of salt. At the very least there will be records that you replaced your tank. This means that if it happens again, you should be able to get it replaced until they actually solve the issue.

FYI

Ducati has issued a tech bulletin which addresses the problem in SC bikes, but no mention of the problem in Monsters or MTS.  I do not know what differences there are in the tanks' material or design, but the bulletin only addresses how to deal with it on SCs.

ducatiz,

Please post the verbiage from the bulletin for the SCs if you have access to it.

Thanks,
Jeff

Spoke with my dealer's Svc Mgr last nite at a bike night and he didn't even bat an eye. Just said to bring it in and he'll start the paperwork. [thumbsup]

I gave my (new to me) S2R1000 a closer inspection last night and noticed a relief of pressure when opening my fuel tank cap.  That struck me as odd, so I traced the breather line and tried blowing into it.  It was blocked.  

I wrestled with the tank latch, lifted the tank, and found the line was routed so it was pinched between the bottom of the tank and the electrical block.  Once the tank was lifted and the line free, I could blow through the line.  I rerouted the line, so it remained free and open.  You may consider checking yours.

I know this probably is not the root cause of my tank swelling, but having a pinched breather sure cannot help the situation.  I imagine the fuel pump will not have to work as hard now, which should free up at least 20-30 HP, right?  

Now, if the tank would shrink back down to size.

-Jeff  

drain the gas, open the filler and let it sit for about 1-2 weeks.  they shrink back to size when dry.




actually, you may be onto something -- the pressure combined with ethanol/gas permeation could be a factor.  moreover, the venting design on the US models is unique to US (and maybe Canada) models due to CARB requirements.

it's still a plastic (flexible) tank.  enough internal pressure pushing out and you will get deformation.  add a penetrating solvent to the mix and the interior becomes even softer/more flexible and pressure can act on that to deform it.

it would explain the type of expansion that's been seen, but i don't think it would happen if it was pressure only -- that plastic should not deform so easily and is rated for pressure (but maybe only external pressure...hmm)

I suppose this is good until the next time you splash gas into the tank.


I considered the pinched breather line being a root cause, but doubted the Sport Classics have the same pinch point.  Maybe the do?

I took photos of my findings on my bike, but apparently cannot post them here directly from my hard drive.  I'd love to share them.

-Jeff

If you send them to me I can host them.  Photobucket is also an option.  Pm me

jgrm1's bike pics  - thumbnails, click for large picture

last one shows the pinched vent line.

(http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn50/motorradmensch/ducatitanks/th_fffFuelTank031710I.jpg) (http://s301.photobucket.com/albums/nn50/motorradmensch/ducatitanks/?action=view&current=fffFuelTank031710I.jpg)(http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn50/motorradmensch/ducatitanks/th_fffFuelTank031710IV.jpg) (http://s301.photobucket.com/albums/nn50/motorradmensch/ducatitanks/?action=view&current=fffFuelTank031710IV.jpg)

(http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn50/motorradmensch/ducatitanks/th_fffFuelTankVentLineII.jpg) (http://s301.photobucket.com/albums/nn50/motorradmensch/ducatitanks/?action=view&current=fffFuelTankVentLineII.jpg)(http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn50/motorradmensch/ducatitanks/th_fffFuelTankVentLineIII.jpg) (http://s301.photobucket.com/albums/nn50/motorradmensch/ducatitanks/?action=view&current=fffFuelTankVentLineIII.jpg)
(http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn50/motorradmensch/ducatitanks/th_fffFuelTankVentLineIV.jpg) (http://s301.photobucket.com/albums/nn50/motorradmensch/ducatitanks/?action=view&current=fffFuelTankVentLineIV.jpg)

That looks like the cap area drain, not the vent.

I've run 2 seperate drain lines from the tank since removing the charcoal can(5/2006), mainly to avoid this kink problem. My tank is as bad as anybody's- doubt any correlation.

Yep, you are right.  I should have paid more attention to that bright orange sticker under the tank.  The drain line should not affect pressure inside the tank.  I wonder why my tank does build pressure though.  A good place to start is pulling off that emissions canister and associated plumbing. 

-Jeff

I'd sooner think a cap problem, or the little rubber nub under the cap is blocking the hole in the cap.

If your emissions can is removed remove that black rubber piece too. It has no purpose.

I took my 2007 S2R1000 to Battley Cycles in MD this week.  Service guy said no problem, he will start the paperwork.
While looking around I saw a 1098 with an aluminum tank! 
Made a couple of jokes with the salesperson about that tank not expanding.

Would be great to get an aluminum replacement for the monster.
not holding my breath though.

My new tank was approved. Lets see how long it takes.

My tank was approved six months ago....still waiting for it to arrive. I cannot believe how slow the shipping process is. Are they hand carving the nylon tanks now??

that sucks.  I got mine in two weeks.  check with another dealer just in case yours dropped the ball or call DNA.

what MY and color?

my 05 "Acid Yellow" took longer -- only year they made that color and fairly small number in the first place (<5000 made)

6 months isn't too bad.  just stay in touch with your dealer every month and ask them to double check the ETA.  ducati ships them by boat in a large shipment, and i imagine they aren't quick to make.

I think the fuel tank will break the ignition switch off the frame before it "rubs through" and leaks fuel. The tanks we manufacture are crosslinked polyethylene, aka PEX, not nylon (which is far more dense). The PEX tanks we have are incredibly durable and very very strong. I would imagine nylon to be equally or more strong than what we are accustomed to.

Further, PEX seems somewhat fire-retardant. We are on the wind up to do some more testing as part of some involvement I have with another industry.


Nylon is difficult to manufacture, likely with many wasted parts. The nylon itself is about $400 per tank to purchase the raw material. Then they get painted and packaged for individual shipment, which means a minimum of 1.5 times the volume the tank occupies is now wasted on packaging. Now to ship only 100 tanks is more volume than a car. They can hire a private jet for a few $10,000 or they can put those and many more tanks in a container and drop it on a ship for a grand.

We have all become spoiled by how manufactured goods materialize out of thin air available at our slightest whim, but one cannot grow nylon tanks from thin air and have those teleported to your doorstep tomorrow (or next week or next month).

Something that really bothers me is how indignant some people are acting. Really? If putting Ducati out of business is that important to you, keep it up. Realistically, there isn't a safety problem; it's a cosmetic issue. Sure, this is a PR nightmare but imho, Ducati is doing far more for us Monster (and Sport Classic) owners than they could be.

Oh yeah, the original red tank on my 2005 S2R800 has a bulge or two and I just don't care. Nor can I be arsed to whinge to NHSTA or my dealer about it.

/rant

Well, if that's all, we are all just being silly.  You guys whose tanks are worn at least through the paint need to quit your whining, go to AutoZone, and find the closest matching touch up paint. 


...and a functional issue when the tank swells to the point where one can no longer operate the latch to raise their tank for service.  We should all disregard a major flaw and get off Ducati's back.

-Jeff

i dont know who said it was going to rub through and leak thats the most ridiculous thing ive heard. Its been several years since my tank started expanding (which goes back to 08 when i first bought it) and i havent gotten my tank replaced, i have crashed it severla times though.... I Went through the motions and couldnt get it replaced, then DNA siad to go to another dealer blah blah blah, and really i could care less for several reasons.

1) its not going to break anytime soon.
2) The swelling has given me 3/4 gallon of extra gas per fill up (wheres kopfjager to say im bull shitting cause he seems to want to do that all the time)
3) Plastic tanks are can crash several times without denting (and i find the bike or myself going latteral quite a few times to know this)

my MAIN concern is that the tank will expand so much on the bottom that the fuel pump no longer creates a good seal and just seeps gasoline onto my motor...

Look-I want to sell the bike. I won't sell it and lie about the tank issue. Most people don't want to buy a bike with what they'd consider a major flaw. So currently, it's essentially costing me money.


It's not okay, and it needs to be fixed.

It also limits the already-limited steering range.

Exactly!!!!!  That, more than anything else is what bothers me about this.  I had to adjust my steering stops several times (before I received my replacement) b/c the tank was expanding and the controls would hit the sides.  I DON'T consider that merely a cosmetic issue.

THIS, I absolutely agree with. And should that time come, there are a few options besides throwing away that nylon tank. The first would be to use a viton o-ring. Viton is the material that is supposed to be used for fuel systems. However viton is 2 to 4 times as costly as rubber and buna, so the cheaper materials are used instead. The next step is something that works in some industries but a solution I'm not certain is something I would sell to customers: a thick flat gasket.

Yes, once fuel is dripping, now I'll agree to there being a problem.


Really? That's all you've got? Then quit. It's the easiest thing to do. Just pay someone to do it for you. People who are self reliant work to find a solution. I *have* removed a tank from a Monster S2R that wouldn't open because it was smashed up against the latch and key switch. But since it's impossible, I'll stay quiet rather than tell a lie. [roll]
(yes, the above paragraph is filled with, overflowing, and dripping with sarcasm)

There isn't a solution for this problem. So it is up to reasonable people to find a middle ground that is fair to everyone involved. Being ugly about the situation and putting down Ducati and their employees for trying to deliver you an exciting motorcycle doesn't help anything. And no, I'm not suggesting for you to completely not care, I just said I don't care. Gas stays in bike. Bike runs. My smile widens. World's problems minimized if even for a few moments.

And this isn't a major design flaw. Something about the situation is tricking the plastics industry. Maybe it is an additive in the fuel. Maybe it is ethanol. It doesn't matter. The solution will be from the plastics industry and won't be ready soon. And it won't be cheap enough to make motorcycle gas tanks out of anytime soon. The reason the 696/1100 series of tanks are expanding is that whatever is making nylon deform is also affecting cross linked polyethylene (PEX), which is not supposed to change shape AT ALL. I have observed deformation with PEX up to 2%.

Good times,
Chris

One workable solution is to retrofit a metal fuel tank from an EFI monster onto your bike.

this is already happened on several Multi's and at least one Monster (an S2R).  the problem is not the gasket, the tank expanded such that the hole was bigger than the pump mount.  i haven't got photos up yet, but on one Multi, when the base was removed the screw holes were oblong.

none of the bikes were in use when the fuel leak was discovered.  i imagine the expansion issue is slow enough so that a normal pre-ride inspection would pick it up, however, one cannot be certain -- if you have 2-3 drops in the wrong place at the wrong time... well..

Chris,

I appreciate your sarcasm.  It is ironic because if you knew me, you would know that I have been wrenching on bikes for over 20 years - mostly BMWs and old Triumphs.  You cannot own and enjoy old Brit bikes without being crafty and self-reliant.  Well, to your point, I suppose you can depending on the thickness of your wallet, but working on them is part of the experience.  Be careful about stereotyping.  

I recently bought my S2R1000 to ride - not to have to determine work arounds.  Before you say it, no, I did not want a Honda.  Yeah, I realize that as my tank swells to the point the latch does not work that I can unbolt the rear of the tank to remove it, but I do not think I am asking too much for features of the bike to work as intended at this stage of its life.

-Jeff

Mr I does have a point about resale.

It is a flaw in the bike that someone would look negatively at and it KILLs the resale value.

The tank has swelled to the point where my clip ons wont allow me to position them and use the steering lock anymore. Not that big of deal to me again because i use a disc lock.

But how can Ducati let their own bikes' resale value drop to shit is beyond me. Thats something I didnt think about because i just plan on keeping my bike until it blows up (who should i tlak to about getting my bike lit on fire?)

Now i have to go check my fuel pump for leaks. eh i have a spare metal tank sitting on the shelf.

Hey however Ducati wants to fix it is fine by me  ;)

Funny. I actually like the look of the expanded tank on my bike. My only issue was having to use a screw driver to put the lash on and off and the steering lock. Other than that, I have no issues. That's mostly why I'm not pregnant doging about how long it takes them to replace it. Actually, if they take a bit longer, but actually fix the issue, then I'm going to complain even less.

I thought the earlier models used a different fuel pump set up? When i asked ducshop about getting a carbon fiber tank like kop they showed me the carbon tank had no provision for a bolt in fuel pump.

agree...FWIW own a steel tanked Monster that I love but is physically too small for me, want to trade up to an aircooled Multistrada but the tank issue has put that idea on hold until it is resolved with a permanent solution, have been following this thread and hoping Ducati comes through...

Yeah... I hear you. It sucks, but it's the reality now. :P pregnant doging to vent is one thing ... some of the stuff I read on here (not from you, and I don't know who from, as I don't remember names) about lawsuits and the like are more than over-the-top.


Resale value? Man, they have preferred that resale value goes down. That's how new bike sales pick up! :) Nothing will compare to the 999 to 1098 transition...

I don't see the correlation if a 2 year old bike is alot cheaper than the new one why would i buy the new bike. The 999 to 1098 situation had to do with the better bike being the same price as the used inferior bike.  

the 999 is suppose to hold its own against the 1098. not sure about 1198. theres your big gap, yet 2005 999s are still shit expensive. You could get a used 1098 for just about 2-3 grand more when the 999 shows up for about 9-10grand.


so THATS why he doesnt ride his bike..... no fuel pump...who woudda dunk.  :P

There are a few alternatives... if you come across a metal tank, one can always plumb an external fuel pump.
- "Fuel Cell" can also make you a tank
- Chris can amaze us some more with his talent and come up with a tank for FI  ;D
-Plumb an external pump for the carbie tanks that chris  designed.

Why?

They made a business decision that didn't work.

Why should the customers put more money out of pocket to fix the mistake?

I'm not advocating that Ducati go out of business, but you would think there would be a middle ground .

Perhaps Ducati's middle ground is replacing the tanks. But to not get reassurance the expansion wont happen again is very tough to swallow. Like I mentioned earlier, all my gas powered garden/outdoor tools have plastic tanks... those tanks are in perfect shape. With the new monsters possibly having problems, its just inexcusable.

The middle ground is going to be replacement upon such a time that the fuel tank doesn't hold fuel. Otherwise, the expanding will be an "undocumented feature". And a cosmetic one, at that.

It still isn't a "business decision". They didn't chose to have this happen. And you think they are going to spend a several million $ on new tanks? I don't think so.

There have been a number of issues on all kinds of products over the years where owners and manufactures get stuck in a bad deal. Ultimately, I don't see this being a safety issue. I am pretty sure that Ducati will be prompt to replace a tank that's actually leaking fuel when there's no apparent cause for it to. (which could be a safety issue)

What's a 2005 S2R 800 like mine worth right now? $5000? $6000? Either way, we're talking about a replacement part that's 1/3 to 1/2 the value of the vehicle. It doesn't make sense to do that over something that isn't a safety issue.

Does the bike run? Yes. Does it spill gas? No. Is the paint flaking off? No. Looks to me like Ducati is already doing far more than they could be (or have ever done before) in trying to please. This is a bit Lord of the Flies.

The business decision was one of switching to a different material on the tank.

I'm assuming they made that decision based on cost and it hasn't worked.

I would argue that a tank that doesn't operate as designed is more than a 'undocumented feature' and is not cosmetic. Just because you're willing to struggle to change a battery or service an air cleaner doesn't mean everyone is.

You are correct though. It is in no way a safety issue.

There are other options and Ducati is working on them right now. 



You don't see it as a safety issue, but Ducati does which is part of why they are replacing tanks on bikes that are out of warranty (both of them) and with 30,000 miles on the clock.


I respect your opinion, you know bikes.  However, a small number of tanks ARE leaking and Ducati is taking the cosmetic issue seriously.  If you had posted this 6 months ago I might have been discouraged but I have found Ducati more than willing and interested to try to resolve this.


well. uh..  nuts to your asthma!

best,

'tiz

My tank latch would not engage at all.  The dealer removed the latch so the tank would sit on the bike flat.  I put a bungee cord across the top so the tank would not bounce while I was riding

I've ridden bikes with more wrong than that. ;D

Let me re-phrase...not usually a safety issue.

One bike, sure.  When I was 19, I had a CM400 that had a CB tank duct taped to it -- for like a month. 

Having the original tank swell to the point it is potentially unsafe to use (and there is a possibility it will leak directly onto the heads) is a safety issue.

My biggest concern has always been the steering lock, which is more of a security concern than safety

My paint is flaking off over a particularly noticeable tank tumor.

Can paint flaking into your eyes be considered a safety issue?

So yes, all you folks with the recent quoting of my post: if you would have READ what I wrote and weren't all panty-bunched, you would realize that each case you mention are a great common sense middle-ground that are covered by what I wrote.

Paint flaking off: check
Leaking: check
Steering lock not functional: Oops missed that. Check

Absolutely.

Yeah, so I've said my piece and am going to peace out of this thread as I feel I've made my point.

I like quoting.
80 years ago


I got nothing.

No.  You are supposed to wear proper eye protection :P

I got notice that my tank would be replaced today.  No specified delivery date...only 2 weeks from the time I dropped her off.

Sounds like it was approved. After approval the factory has to ship it.

no they dont.  [roll] well that was just my case.

Guys,

So, has anyone else noticed a build up of pressure in their tank when opening the filler cap?  Is this normal or do I need to look for a clogged canister or an actual pinched vent line?

-Jeff

Follow the vent line from under the tank. Mine hangs in the open, since I took off my charcoal canister.

Hey Folks,

Just wondering if anyone knows if the 2010 Monsters will suffer the same fate as the others regarding the tank expansion. 

I think I saw someone mentioning their '09 having problems, so I can only assume it's an identical tank?

You should weigh your concerns in the sticky thread.

agreed, move to sticky, but;
my '09 696 just had its internal tank replaced under warranty, only took a couple weeks to arrive...

what were the symptoms?  my understanding is that those tanks are a totally different material from the non-panel type..

Sorry.  Probably should have just stuck it here. 

So that's my question, I thought the tanks were different than those that have been having problems, but have they actually corrected the "problem" or just redesigned the shape of the tank? 

I've put an order in for a 2010 696, but if it's going to encounter this issue, I'd probably switch to a different bike... :-(

I wouldnt let that stop you from ordering one. The bike far out weighs the possibilities of  any tank issues. The tank is emission control. So its even warrantied further than the standard warranty
All bikes have their issues. So buying something else isnt going to guarantee anything.
A few brands come to mind that are more "terminal" than a expanding tank. Just my 2 cents

i agree.  i started this whole thread and effort and so far, i think Ducati's response has been very good.  i am still going to push for a recall, but they are replacing *every* expanded tank that comes thru the door -- the only problems have been with individual dealers who don't understand the process.

moreover, the warranties are useful but Ducati has replaced tanks far outside the warranties.  they know this is a problem. 

i said i'd like to avoid a lawsuit and i might get my wish.  that would be nice -- how many attorneys will say that? 

I'm kinda with you on that. When i bought this bike I was planning on keeping it for at least 10 to 12 years. This tank issue has me concerned what its going to mean for me to keep it that long. Looking back knowing what i know now i likely would have chosen differently. But I must agree with duckintime also as these are some kick ass bikes.

I got the call that my tank is in.  :o

Started the peperwork with my dealer friday. Now we wait..... [coffee]

Tank is replaced :)

My tank is on order.  All it took was emailing the Service Manager of my nearest dealer photos of the front of the tank rubbing against the ignition switch assembly and the right side frame pad not lining up with the frame (same photos posted above).  I asked if there are any changes to the new tanks so this does not repeat.  He told me that they have not seen any reoccurrence with replacement tanks, but if it takes two years to manifest, I am not sure they would, yet.  I will ask the installer when the new tank arrives to compare it with the original and report my findings.

-Jeff

We looked at the new one vs the old and the only differences we saw was the bottom of the tank, right above where the battery sits is bigger.  This was also confirmed when we tried to close the tank.  My PCIII was sitting on my battery but the tank would not go down with it there.  So now I have to find a new spot for my PCIII or get one of the smaller A123 type batteries.  I will move it for now.

The insides of the tank looked exactly the same.

FWIW, my dealer told me the replacement tanks were different and no more swelling should occur. He couldn't tell me what was different though. ???

Tank arrived on Friday. Took just over a week to get. Not sure if that is because it's a Dark, but I'm taking it in tomorrow to replace. The tanks are still the same, but I'm going to buy an additive that to deal with the ethanol.

My tank is already in.  It took only a week to recieve it.  I have an appointment this Saturday to have it installed.

-Jeff

Mine is installed. Now I just need to pick it up.

Glanced at my bike on the way out to work... had my tank replaced 11 months ago. Guess what, mis fitting and dimpling again.  [bang] [bang]

So, out of curiousity,  do you still stand by your previous statement?

Glad you asked.. and honestly, I do feel jaded about it. The bike does everything I want it to, its a great designed bike for my needs. Had it finally dialed in.  But for Ducati to come up short on a gas tank design?? If it was a rat bike, I wouldnt care. Would it stop me from buying a new ducati? I dont think so, but it would be something in the back of my mind. Id rather have the fuel tank issues than some of the probs from other bikes.
On the bright side, its not a toyota.... my throttle does go back to idle  [cheeky]

Got mine back. Will be using the enzyme to counter act the ethanol.

What enzyme?

-Jeff

There's an additive that people have been using mostly on boat engines to counter the ethenol. My local dealer is starting to sell it to avoid these issues. I need to check if I have to add it every time I fill up. I got a flyer, but my daughter got a hold of it, so it has been "misplaced".

Soltron Enzyme Fuel Treatment ?

Boaters also use Marine Stabil

Sounds familiar.

i really havent been keeping up with this whole ordeal...

i joined the yahoo group, filed the NHTSA report, got my tank replaced etc...

but my concern is that if the tank is the exact same as the original, its just a matter of time before it begins to swell, flake, etc..

Anyway its comforting hearing that ducati has been honoring tank replacements for out of warranty bikes but at the same time, im sure eventually the tanks will stop being produced... etc...  needless to say... ive been keeping my eye on the tank and if i notice it starting to experience any of the same issues ill probably just resort to selling the bike and picking up a newer monster... or saving up for a streetfighter  [moto]

From what I understand the tanks will eventually suffer through the same issue. From what I've heard from the dealers, a new tank will be shipped out that will not have the same issue, but like the elusive unicorn, we have not seen it yet.

i saw one and killed it.

What numbers are you geting for your fill ups

im hitting 3.6gallons right now. i ahvent checked, but i think its leaking around hte edges. :/

Does anything ever go right with your bike?

If it was a horse.....




I would shoot it.

Is there such a thing as the glue factory for bikes?

It's called ebay.

Just purchased this past week a 2005 Monster S2R 800 with approximately 5400 miles.
At time of purchase, I was aware of the tank issue, which this bike did have.
Long story short, this bike was a good deal that I couldn't pass up.

Just got off the phone today with the service manager of Ducati NY and was advised that Ducati is no longer honoring warranty claims on the tank issues if the tank is just showing typical sighs of expansion.
He further advised that a warranty claim may be covered in cases where the tank is leaking or other extreme no-start issues.

Can anyone advise further.

TIA

They are idiots.  As of the last time I spoke with my contact at Ducati NA, they are replacing any tank that shows any significant expansion.  They issued a tech bulletin for the SC tank expansion which is a half-measure fix just in case the tank expands nad contracts (as far as I understand).

If your tank rubbers are off the frame and/or the front is touching the keyswitch, it will be replaced.

You are the third individual I've heard from that has been told that BULLSHIT story by Ducati NY. 

Take your bike and all your business to another dealer.

 [thumbsup]  The dealer's job is to document the claim, DNA makes the decision.  Try another dealer.

ducatiz, howie:

I'm taking both your advice.

Thx

Read this on another forum:

"...As for the plastic tanks, while they[DNA] have been ignoring the issue for sometime now, they have as of late come to their senses. They've recently (within the last couple days), announced that they are no longer replacing tanks with the same tanks because they'll just swell down the road, instead they're shimming them out to keep them secure. As of right now, they're making a replacement tank that will not have this problem for all Sport Classics. Regardless of being in or out of warranty, they're replacing EVERY sportclassic tank when the new tank comes out. So rest assured, within the near future you'll have a tank that won't have this problem anymore. And the tanks aren't actually Ducati, the company that makes them for Ducati and other motorcycle brands is called Acerbis. So while everyone thinks Ducati has been ignoring the issue, it's actually been Acerbis, Ducati's been trying to get compensation from Acerbis to fix all the tanks. ..."

Anyone else read about this?

Good news?

Rumor number 900

The other ones say things like a metal repl and so on.  No one says the dealer name or a source.  Ducati has not and will not say anything until a final fix is in because everything they say could be used in a lawsuit.

Part of why I can't stand ducati.ms anymore.  Just crap.

Anyone got any more info on this? My tank's still OK, but I know I can't rely that Ducati will take care of me when it does go bad. I'd like to do something to forestall that...

I just bought a bottle of Startron my my dealer. They basically told me to add a cap worth to the tank if the bike was going to sit for about a week.

And this counteracts the ill effects of the ethanol? Is it in fact ethanol that causes this problem? Is it the ethanol expanding, causing a pressure build-up, or is it a chemical reaction with the plastic tank material?

There is no guarantee that a stabilizer will help

I think a more likely option is coating the tank.  Multi owners report good results with their tanks and caswells

Cool, thanks. I might just do that. Here's a link, just in case anyone else is thinking about it.
http://www.caswellplating.com/aids/epoxygas.htm (http://www.caswellplating.com/aids/epoxygas.htm)

I've spoken with them (Caswell) several times and they are convinced their coating will have no problems with the nylon/PA tank surface.  Lance Caswell said to rough it up first but that their epoxy based coating would stick to anything except PE (polyethylene).  Quite a few plastic tanks on many vehicles are made from HDPE etc but the Ducati tanks on the bikes UP TO the 696/1100 the later style are all nylon/PA.  I don't know what the later style are made of.  If you look on the underside, there will be a marking as to the composition which is present to comply with EU recycling regs (I am not kidding, my 2005 bike has a "recycle" triangle and a marking with "PA6" next to it -- meaning "polyamide 6" the particular nylon compound)

I don't know that the stabilizers will work.  If ethanol is in fact the problem, then it will still penetrate the tank's inner surface (which by the way is NOT coated at all, my new one still had "artifact bubbles" from the rotomolding process.. soft and could be "popped" wth?)

On the other hand, I have been led to believe the US-spec tanks are actually a different compound from Europe and the rest of the world, which is entirely possible as only Canada and Mexico follow US EPA's regs for things like permeation (which is a standard for plastic tanks).  Thus, it could be a defect in the nylon polymer itself which simply is reacting to any solvent (of which there are half a dozen present in US pump gas -- pick your poison:  xylene, toulene, ethylbenzene, etc etc)

My gut feeling (as I have said before) is that Ducati will start coating the tanks with something like Caswell when they go out the door.  It is far cheaper than coming up with a new tank design, whether a new plastic or metal and, quite simply, solves the problem in the cheapest way possible.

I've pushed the DNA people to start testing tank coatings as I think it's probably the best solution for them and for us.  I can't imagine the cost to buy material and coat 10,000 tanks is but a fraction of the cost to replace 10,000 tanks.

That being said, it really comes down to whether or not the coating works and sticks.  If it does and they start doing it on the good tanks, then I consider that a win for everyone.

But I don't think ethanol stabilizers will help too much against the tank problems.  CANT HURT but I don't think they will stop it too much.  

I don't think you need a virgin tank to do the coating either.  Just drain and clean your un-expanded tank and let it sit for a while to air out, then do the prep for the coating (Caswell says to put a handful of nails in the tanks and shake it around  ??? uhh sure.. )   My gut feeling as an armchair chem eng is that it will work fine.

Um, I was wondering why the latch was so tricky and controls were not only coming close, but actually touching the tank at full lock on the <7k mile otherwise mint '06 S2R I just picked up.  Why do I feel like Ducati is not going to show me much love as the 2nd owner should this become a bigger problem?  :-\

Glad I at least know about the issue now.  Definitely signing up.

Ducati has been replacing tanks for subsequent owners.  The warranty is transferrable and they have been replacing tanks out of warranty with no questions asked.  The only problem has been dealers.

This isn't to say that Ducati might be working on some guidelines.  I can't be sure, but my feeling is that they believe only SOME tanks expand beyond safe dimensions and that SOME expansion is acceptable.  This is the tack they took with the recent bulletin for the Sport Classics, which advises shimming the tank mounts for expanded tanks which are still under a certain width.


I know someone who has procured an expanded tank and is paying to have a laboratory run tests on it to see why it's expanded.  I don't know if they plan to share their info with me or what.  We will see.

Did anyone else's dealer remove the charcoal canister as part of their tank replacement?  My original tank would build up pressure (see above posts), but my new tank - sans canister - does not.  Hmmm.

-Jeff 

My new replacement tank less than a year old, it's already pressing againt the ignition swich. Just like the other one did  :'(  And the charcoal canister was removed back in '07   

charcoal canister doesnt have anything to do with the swelling of the tanks. Wish it did

My bike is an 2006 and I'm the 2nd owner.
Went to my local dealer for their opinion 3 weeks ago after seeing this thread . Was contacted today by the dealer and told my tank replacement was approved and the new tank should arrive in 2 weeks.
Hopefully the same swelling issue will not happen but.....
Duc's are one of a kind and I hope this small issue does not deter people.
If I had a choice, I'd buy another Duc over anything.

My dealer said they would not replace my tank since it is not original to the bike. I had a steel tank originally that leaked at the hinge and I effed it up trying to seal it. So I bought a good used plastic tank as a replacement. Swollen all to hell. >:(

Do you still have the metal tank?

Yeah the warranty goes by the vin only.  Can't do that

Metal tank is in my parts bin

I would just send it to Nate and get it fixed.

Yeah.  And be happy you have it.   

+1 make the beast with two backs the plastic tanks.

Lol haven't you defiled enough of them? 

Not the tanks.

Happiness is overrated.

Ain't that the truth

Finally got my replacement tank!  Took 4 months to ship from when replacement was approved.

have you had it installed yet?

see if you can eyeball the old and new tank insides

my new tank looked different inside, but it may have just been unstained.  gasoline stains.

It's been installed and I haven't picked it up yet.


I'll take a look if they have the old one handy too.


Still selling it ASAP.

be a good boy and line the tank as well.   keep your receipts.  if Ducati starts lining their tanks then you might be able to hit them up for the cost.

I already informed the likely buyer of the tank issue. He can do as he sees fit.

Schools about to be out and i got time to take it to the shop. Its across state lines, so its not an easy trip to make if i drop off the bike and take the train home, and then take the train there back etc...it'll cost me over $50 in tolls and train fare just to make the 4 legs of this trip!

but did you guys have to leave the bike with them to get it inspected? I fear they will take 3 weeks to insecpt the bike and another month to order the tank, and another month to install it..when the visual confirimation is enough to say the tank doesnt fit...

You're too used to dealing with idiots. They'll just look at it for five mins, take the VIN, and order one.


Then you bring it back when the new one comes in and they'll swap it out in a day.

^^ Yes, it was a 5-minute once-over along with some picture-taking for the "inspection".

Then I went home and he called me a day or so later to tell me it was approved.

+1 that was my experience as well.

Hopefully this will be the case.

Goldcoast said: theres no such thing
Ducati Soho said yes but pretty much lied straight to my face on "the tank is on its way"

"there's no such thing" what?

this was a while ago, when i had my valve guides replaced, i showed them the tank issue, and they said, theres no such thing as an expanding tank, my tank just needs to get adjusted ( tank mount, tank latch and rubber stops)

i wonder what they are saying now that Ducati has replaced thousands of them?

I dont care about them enough to ask. I went there for a warranty once out of the blue. They kept giving me various reasons as to why they need "another week". and then when i yelled at them, the parts were magically there.

Just added my name to the list. The gas tank on my 2007 M695 is now nearly impossible to latch/dislatch. Anyone know a good dealer in Atlanta-area who will take care of this?

The place I bought it is no longer in business (Atlanta Triumph Ducati)...

Take it to NPR Ducati, but they're not close. They're almost to Athens. If it wasn't a warranty issue, I would take it to the Duc Shop, but they don't do warranty.

I wouldn't recommend them, but you can probably also check with Atlanta Motor World up in Alpharetta or there's also the BMW dealership that sells Ducs. I still recommend taking it to NPR. You're taking your chances with the other 2.

Duccarlos - just got off the phone with Brett and NPR Ducati. He said I could email photos to them, along with the VIN and they'd order me a new tank - should arrive within a month from submission of photos.

Brett was totally up to speed with the problems plastic tank owners are having.

Good recommendation (it would appear).

Thanks!

NPR is hands down the best dealership in Georgia.

That is very cool that they'll let you send photos.  I'm sure they doublecheck when you bring the bike in.

Not sure why, assuming they are being paid to do the work. I'm not driving an hour each way to replace a perfectly good tank.

In any event, it'd be fine with me if they checked it out.

Anyone know how big these tanks will get? I took off the rear pivot mount and lengthened the holes so that I could slide the tank back a bit further. The tank fits properly again for the time being. [beer]

My old tank was almost 6 inches bigger in circumference. Your effort may be fine for you.  Some tanks are expanding irregularly.

Got the call that my tank is in.  Take it in on Friday to do the swap.

Fcuk, the paint on my tank is cracking on the left side near the rubber support.  [bang]

Has anyone had problems with expansion on a replacement tank and if so has Ducati stepped up to cover a second tank?
I had the original one on my 06 620 dark replaced last summer but I noticed the other day that I had to readjust the steering stop, which was the first indication of the expansion the other time.

I bought the EverRed warranty in hopes that if anything went wrong with the bike I'd be covered but I get the sinking feeling that they will try and dodge the tank if it actually expanding again.

jimi

Jimi

I have guys on my list who have gotten 2 replacements.  Dna is replacing them. 

I am in an odd situation.  Oklahoma still allows 100% gas but I hear the Federal Gov. is going to force our state to sell only e10 in the future.  I use 100% gas now so my tank has not expanded yet, but I am afraid it will when e10 becomes mandated and is the only fuel available.  By then my warranty will probably be expired and I'll be SOL.  I'd like to get an ethanol-proof tank but unless mine expands, there will be no replacement...  Should I start running e10 now so I can get a replacement tank while I still can?  e10 sux.

Bill are you sure there is no e10 in OK? 

Pm coming

There is e10 and 100% gas available here.  They passed a state law that requires the stations to label the pumps so I can choose.  I put 100% gas in my vehicles and lawn equipment.  Sometimes I don't have a choice but if I have to buy e10 out somewhere, I generally use most of it up and can fill up with real gas before I get home.  Generally you can count on Valero to have real gas around here, the other stations vary by location.

06 S2R 1000. This spring unable to unlatch.

Called dealer , he called Ducati, they want to have me bring up the bike and take pix.

My Question:
(Probably covered before but I don't want to sift through 38 pages of posts...)

Should I put my evaporative canister back on the bike before taking it to the dealer?

How 'bout original exhaust?

My guess is, canister, Yes. Exhaust, No need.

Neither.   Mine is heavily modded, pc3n no belt covers, full exhaust, cut airbox, evap long gone.  They replaced it wo a tweet.

My dealer actually removed my canister when replacing my tank.

-Jeff

2007 s4rs.

I joined the list today. Can someone give me the short version of how the replacement process works??

Go to dealership, they take pics, you take bike, they send in claim, call you when its in.
In my case, they started the paper work before they saw the bike. My bike was in the shop for about a week or 2.
Dont let your dealership give you the run around or pass the buck. Ducati knows about this.

I managed to pick up a tank that I can send out for lab testing. 

Stay tuned.

I still think this is a multiple variable problem.  I am posting because it is boating season again, and I got to use my 5 gallon plastic boat tank last week.  That thing was expanded like a ballon.  It had been sitting all winter with the cap on and vent closed.  I had a hard time even twisting the cap off it was under so much pressure. 

It gradually goes back to "original" shape after a day or 2 sitting with the vent open.  But, it is thin, flexible material, so it doesn't have a memory.   If it was a material that yielded plastic (irreversible), then it would do the same thing as the monster tanks are doing.  So, I think it may be a combination of pressure, poor venting, poor materials, and maybe ethanol is a catalyst.

It would be fun to install a pressure gauge on a sealed tank with some gas in it, and then record the pressure with time and temperature.

mitt

That is sad considering that it's Ducati were talking about here. None of the $8000 Suzuki motorcycles I've owned have had expanding gas tanks.

How long will Ducati continue to make tanks for the monsters with problems? I've had mine replaced once, and I am afraid if it happens again, that it's up to me for replacement. Which I would do, want to do, but I refuse to have a deformed tank. I had mine replace less then a year ago, and I just laid it down. With some good scratches. My thought is to have it repainted, and while I'm at it, have the inside coated. Has anyone had any luck with this?

No idea how long Ducati will make the tanks.  I have a feeling that whatever EOL plans they had for these tanks has changed, but I know nothing yet.

As far as coating, a good number of people have reported doing it (Caswell seems to be the preferred).  A lot of riders on the Multi board have used it and are reporting that it is fine.  I don't know what one would look for it "not working" which would mean it stops stickign to the tank.

I plan to have mine coated, from my correspondence with Lance Caswell, their formula will stick to the polyamide tank just fine.

Just got the call today from my dealer. Tank is in! [beer] That's 8 weeks to the day of starting the paperwork. I just wish my battery had waited a few more weeks before kicking the bucket! Getting that tank off sucked balls!!! :'(

Just dropped my bike off at Duc Pond Motorsports in winchester, VA. They took one look at it and said they wouldn't have any problem getting this one approved. The tech described the tank as "having more dimples than a golf ball". He was also surprised that the ignition didn't cease to function due to the amount of pressure the tank was putting on it. I hope this goes quickly as I'd hate to miss out on the majority of the 2010 riding season.

Still waiting on my tank, since December. 

OK this is what I would call terrible news.

it depends on the color

mine is the Acid Yellow, which was only on the '05 models.  other colors have quicker ship.

 I've got the white with red rally stripe which (I think) is pretty standard.

That makes sense and makes me feel alot better about this. I still can't figure out why I chose Memorial Day weekend to voluntarily drop my bike off for service.

Finally picked up the bike yesterday from Battley Cycles in Maryland. 
I dropped it off to do the swap on Friday of last week, and it was supposed to be done on Saturday.

They called me Saturday to say they may have broke the quick disconnect nipple while pulling the tank and they would need to order the part.
They got the new part in, (which includes the entire fuel pump assembly) and installed it and the new tank without charging me a penny.

One week total.
Very happy with the service and communication.
And the ride yesterday was fantastic!

My '07 gloss black took 4 months.

I should have said, mine is the Acid Yellow color and took 6 months.

I think there are a lot of factors affecting delivery schedules.

Just made my claim yesterday...and now the waiting game begins.

wooo hoo got the call this morning....
jeff from euro cycles called to inform me that the red/ white stripe tank for my '07 s4rs has arrived....
appointment set for tomorrow 2pm, he estimates an hour and a half to swap tanks....
drain fuel, exchange fuel pump assembly and hardware, swap....

initial claim , and post here, March 4 2010, so just about three months end to end....

I guess the dark tank is always the better choice. End to end it took them 3 weeks and that was because I took 5 extra days to drop off the bike.

First off thanks to ducatiz for putting this together. Second off..no I have not had any issues thus far (I hope) with my 06 red/white s2r 800. Just picked it up last fri and now saw this post. Needless to say I am nervous and cannot wait to get home and inspect my tank with a microscope. Few quick questions....If mine has gone this long is it safe to say Im out of the woods? Is their any preventative things I can do ? Does the ethanol hypothesis still hold weight? If so, which gas stations are the safest bet? Thanks guys for any help/guidance.

Most think that the ethanol is definitely not helping. There are few gas stations that still provide 100% ethanol free gas. You would need to look for the specific stations in your area. I have yet to hear of someone that has had this issue when using normal gas.

Thanks, I'll look into it. What a bummer though. Come to mention it, looked at the same bike but an 05 where the tank looked waaay to big for the frame and the owner had no clue. I thought it was maybe a tank that was rebuilt and the dude wasnt being straight up.

just a quick note, got the new warrantied tank installed in just about 2 hours, [thumbsup]
just got back from the shop with the trailer, will post detailed pics in a separate thread shortly...
so, tank warrantied and replaced in about 3 months even, from visual inspection to return home.

You may not be so lucky. I didn't start to notice any issues on my '06 S2r800 till about 2 months ago. I never paid much attention to this thread cuz my tank was fine. That is, until a buddy told me to look at my tank and sure enough, no ripples but it was almost touching the ignition switch. I have an appt to get my new tank installed next saturday.

Looks like I'm suffering this same problem too.  It's not severe yet, and hopefully won't be, but it is there: Tank Expansion.  :(

went to Rockwell Cycles. The secretary checked it out and it sounds like i am going to get a tank. My tank latch is pushing against the keysensor and one bumper is 90% off the frame and theres bumps all over, my steering damper is also hitting the tank. she took a bunch of pics and is submitting the claim for me.

Ive never met a dealer with as cool guys and customers as Rockwell. Its a much smaller shop than goldcoast and i got a chance to talk to a few techs, they are supercool guys.

I'm glad you finally are getting some action but now I'm afraid a meteor will strike Rockwells!

 [laugh] [clap]

+1 on Rockwell Cycles [thumbsup]

I was there with He Man and had them submit a claim for my tank as well.  Waiting to see what happens.  Also, I joined the ducatiplastictanks group and will submit my info momentarily.

If they let me keep my tank, im going to set it on fire and roll it down a hill.

only because i cant burn my whole bike....

I just dropped my bike this morning to get the tank replaced. Service Mgr said they have had luck getting DNA to replace tank protectors as well. I have a Ducati Corse carbon protector on my tank, and getting it off in one piece ain't gonna happen. Anybody else get one replaced with their tank?

Any update as to whether Ducati is using a new and/or modified tank yet?  I have a 796 on order.  Maybe I should cancel until this is sorted out.

Someone was having probs with their 696 tank.. scroll a few pages back. It was pushing out the tank covers. Dunno, but for me id be looking for a metal tank on any new bike these days.

I have a plastic tank too. Can anyone provide pictures for some show and tell...

Scroll back to the first few pages.  I've requested ppl send me pics but only a few have come in.

I got the call yesterday that my tank is in and that I'm scheduled for installation next Tuesday. Can't believe how quick and painless that was!

My digital camera is broken but I'll try to take some cell pics of the expanded tank tonight.

Well looks like this may be happening to me now. Just bought an 06 s2r in red/white a month ago w/ 5500k on it. At first I saw two tiny dimples maybe a mm in diameter assuming it was from direct damage, and now there is a couple more. You can only see it in the right light. Damn [bang]...assuming it took so long to happen since the guy barely put any miles on it and drained the fuel system when it sat. Since then Ive put about 700 miles on it.  Wonder if my dealer will go ahead and replace it even if its in the beginning stages. Funny my brother wants a yamaha and all of a sudden is breaking my balls about my expensive ducati with the magical illusion of a tank. WTF.

I am surprised at the LOW number of NHTSA reports.  Unless we get the numbers up it is very unlikely there will be a recall.  I have spoken to them several times and the basically say there just isn't enough reports.

I have >200 people on my mail list and about 30 people have files reports with NHTSA.

Unless more people step up and make official complaints, my efforts are a big waste of time.

Near as I can 'tiz.....

people are just concerned with getting a new tank, and not getting a recall instituted.



Which is fine until the tank warps again, and Ducati doesn't cover it. I know the wifey did it-what are the rest of you doing?

I have at least 20 ppl on my mail list who are on a second replacement and 5 who have had 3 replacements.

Ducati replaced cracked 900ss frames until a few years ago.  I doubt with this voilume they will be so generous.

I just got my bike and am new to this but do I have to wait to file a report when my tank gets fixed? I would be willining to do it now if I can. How do I go about that?

Thanks for doing this, I have signed up (I think).  I am certain however that I filed a NHTSA complaint on their site but never heard back.  I have a 2006 Paul Smart that is on it's second gas tank.  First was replaced by Ducati last fall.

Don't wait.  It is unrelated.  You just need your VIN and mpdel info and to describe the problem

http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/ivoq/ (http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/ivoq/)

I posted some sample language but it is unnecessary.  Saying the gas tank expanded and how much is sufficient.  Mention how on a bike the gas tank IS BETWEEN YOUR LEGS and a split tank would be ahuge problem.  If your handles were/are hitting say so because that affects handling.

http://ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=39604.msg705123#msg705123 (http://ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=39604.msg705123#msg705123)

Link to how you can tell if you have a warped tank. maybe you can put it in your intial post so everyone can see it.

I just filed a complaint. Thanks Ducatiz.

I just filed with NHTSA and subscribed to  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ducatiplastictanks/join (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ducatiplastictanks/join)  Thanks for the links. Also, I took mine in to the dealer two weeks ago. He had a surprised look on his face but he got his digcam out right away and took pictures of the hinge slots and latch area. I called a week later and he said they were backordered. I called again today (two weeks later) - still backordered. And don't call him, he'll call me. Did anybody get any paperwork given to them when they made their complaint? I have no documentation whatsoever.

Good question on the paperwork

I got an email confirmation of my complaint, that's it.

A recent post has brought me to investigate my filing, and althought I'm fairly confident that I did file a complaint, I have lost my ODI # and my searches do not come up with anything. My next step is to re-file. UPDATE: I did just find my ODI# and really should have left a larger complaint. My concern is that these complaints seem to be scattered on the NHTSA database. And the only option for the monster is the 08' 696 which not too many have had problems yet. Maybe there is not enough complaints due to them being scattered. We all need to do the paperwork. I do not want my tank to get all wacked out and then be forced to pay for it out of my own pocket, only to have it fail a year later.

The paperwork question was for tank replacement not ODI reports.

I am tracking the reports as they are posted and will print them out in a batch.

Vaclav you need to call DNA I was fed this line of b.s for 7 months till i called  DNA they got  on the dealers ass and called me back telling me there was no excuse for this and that i needed to go back to the dealer and this would be handled. That was 3 weeks ago, today the dealer called telling me my tank is in. If you let the dealer push you off you'll likely never see a tank

Here are a few pics of my tank...

Latch/Ignition
(http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c392/lhuxtable/Bikes/tank4.jpg)

Left side rubber mount
(http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c392/lhuxtable/Bikes/tank1.jpg)

Dimples
(http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c392/lhuxtable/Bikes/tank3.jpg)

Ripple - hard to see but its there
(http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c392/lhuxtable/Bikes/tank2.jpg)


Complaint logged...

Your Complaint Information is successfully submitted.
Your Confirmation number (ODI Number) is: 10336897

Thanks..will get on this and file asap. Talked to my dealer here in columbus,ohio and he said of 6 complaints filed, only one has been replaced. Said DNA is intentionally moving slow until a composite is found that doesnt result in reacting the fuel.......?? Either way, he sounded eager to take pics and file the claim although my damage is minimal right now.

I guess if they wait long enough - like maybe 5 years - it magically won't be DNA's problem anymore?  Or does a *known problem* get fixed even after the 5 year warranty has expired?

I've never seen a duc with more than a two year warranty.