Ducati Monster Forum

Is the SR2 1000 as fast as the S4 or a better bike? I know the S4 is a 4 valve maintenance is a PITA on them comparably speaking. They put close to the same number as far as HP and TQ are concerned; with the S4 having a slight edge there, but the Sr being a bit lighter. Now that's stock. I saw that the SR with just headers alone can be bumped to 117 HP which is 16 more than the S4.

Ok, let's be clear what you're talking about here.  There is an s2r 1000, an s4 (916 motor), an s4r (996 motor) or a s4rt/s (999 motor).  All the s4/s4r/s4rt put out substantially more HP than the 1000.  They all share the ST-based frame with the S2r 1000.  And they all have at least as good suspension as the s2r1000, if not better.

So is your question whether the s2r1000 is faster than any of them?  I'm pretty sure the answer is no, but that it doesn't matter.  Monsters aren't drag bikes.  As to whether it's better, that is a matter of opinion.  I really like two valve air-cooled monsters, but that doesn't make them 'better.'  On pure numbers, the water-cooled bikes have the s2r 1000 beat.

Bro did I really sound that ignorant? lol I've had my S4 for almost five years now :) And wouldn't have gotten it if I wanted a drag bike...Now I am no doubt far from an expert.

The Sr is lighter and you only need headers to bump it up into the higher HP bracket. S4 came stock with the 916 with 101HP SR has a 992? with 95HP. Lighter with headers would the SR take the S4 on the track?

Power to weight.
SR2 1000 392 LBS 95HP 51TQ

0.5274 HP

S4 425 LBS 101HP 67TQ
0.5233 HP

So looking at those figures it would seem that the SR would be the quicker bike on the track...Now that is both at stock. So even without the headers it looks to have a very small advantage. Does the torque give the 4 valves that much more of an advantage on the track? Is that where I am not seeing straight? 
 

no

Ok just checked and the 08 S2R had 69TQ so that would be out of the question...

No that's great. That's the kinda answers I'd get over at the section 8 forum  [bang]

Ask a stupid question, get a stupid answer.

Edit:  looks like this discussion has gone downhill while I was typing my response below.   :-\

---

Sorry, but you did refer to some bike called an sR, which doesn't exist.  Nor does a Sr2.  Then you asked which bike is "better."      

As for the question as to which would be faster at the track, I expect it would be the one with the better rider.   The S4 has less clearance (low mount pipes and old-style rearsets) than the S2r 1000, which would hamper it's ability to really get cranked over, particularly in the hands of a less experienced track rider.  But the top end of an water-cooled motor stomps on an air-cooled motor and IIRC, the S4 has *slightly* better suspension.  The riders being equal?   Who knows.  It would depend on a billion factors.  Personally, I'd probably choose the S4 on a more open track and the s2r on a tight technical one.  I just hate scraping stuff.

Also, I wouldn't trust the numbers you're using.  For example, I think that the HP numbers you're looking at are not apples to apples.  The S4 is measured at the rear wheel (at least I think it was the rear wheel).  At some point (2005, maybe?), Ducati started measuring HP at the crank.  So your HP number for the S4 has parasitic loss that the S2r does not.  I'm not sure those are apples-to-apples weights either.  I seem to remember that Ducati changed how they measure weight at the same time as the hp measurement change-over.  Finally, don't quote me on this, but I *think* the S2r 10000 and S4 may have different transmission ratios, which would have a significant effect on the straightline performance of each.

So my answer is that I can't tell you which is better nor which is faster at the track.  Lot of help, eh?

someone doesn't know the difference between ignorance and stupidity...




Thanks bud. The SR bit was a typo. So my reasoning for the view was not too far fetched?

Thanks  [roll]

 ;D

To me HP numbers are like measuring of memory, or prime example my iPhone, it's an "8 gig", when in actuality it is 7.2 gig, they are all SLIGHTLY different, but essentially 8 gig; excellent point on hp measured at crank spidey!!  :P

Grrr grump grump grump... easy kids

Here's my opinion on the matter.  The S4 does have more power, and it has some history to it, being the 1st 4v monster... On the bad side, it came with chack clip-on things and experienced Duc techs run and hide if you ask them to service the valves on that engine. 

S2R1000 - solid bike, though known to have some tech issues.  I'm a sucker for the air cooled look over the water cooled (though the s4 radiators no soo huge), and the SSS is a nice touch.

One of the biggest decision factors for me might come down to the valves.  I watched a 4v valve service teaching demo, done on those heads and saw in person what a hassle it was to do.. and this was on a head that wasn't attached to anything so it could be moved around and futzed with.. If you're willing to invest the money or time each time you have to do those valves you're more patient, or better financed than me  ;D

I don't think you're going to see 117 hp on the S2R1000 with just a set of headers... that's a BIG hop up from teh stock trim numbers. 

With just a set of headers and the termi kit (slip-ons, airbox, ecu) my s2r1000 puts out 92hp at the rear wheel.

Give a look see here, Brad Black's real world numbers:

http://www.bikeboy.org/sr21000.html (http://www.bikeboy.org/sr21000.html)

S2R1k - 83 HP, 58 ft-lb

http://www.bikeboy.org/monsters4.html (http://www.bikeboy.org/monsters4.html)

S4 - 101 HP, 64 ft-lb

Given the same rider, I'd expect the S4 to be quicker around a track, unless it was *really* tight.

S2R1k can get in the vicinity of 90 HP with a full exhaust system, open airbox and fuel system tweaking.
It will need a good chunk  of $ thrown at the motor to get to ~100 HP.
S4 can get to 105 HP with cans, open airbox and DP ECU.

S4 is a lot more work to do the valves; twice as many to do, and a lot more crap has to come off and go back on.

That's the way it came across when I read it.  ;)

It takes more than horsepower to be fast.  One fellow Monster owner who prefers e-mail lists to forums like this one has a 130+ horsepower custom 888 Superbike and a 900 Monster with much less power.  He claims that he is several seconds per lap faster on the Monster than on the 888.  It has as much to do with light weight and riding position as anything else.

There is more to a fast bike than raw horsepower.

Links to photos of the two bikes:
http://www.mad-ducati.com/images/MikeCecchini/MikeCecchini.html (http://www.mad-ducati.com/images/MikeCecchini/MikeCecchini.html)
http://www.mad-ducati.com/images/MikeCecchini/Monster/Monster1.html (http://www.mad-ducati.com/images/MikeCecchini/Monster/Monster1.html)

Duh, the red frame makes the monster hella faster.  ;D

It doesn't matter, except when talking to someone down at Starbucks.   I've got an S4, runs pretty good, I wouldn't call it real fast, but it can hold it's own up until about 125-130 when it's getting topped out.  It's got really good stomp coming out of turns, in fact, when it starts coming on real hard about 8000 rpm, it starts to spin the tire up.  As to whether something is faster than the other, I guess it all depends on who is going to hold it on longer going into the turn.    Straights don't really matter, if they did, everyone would have a Hayabusa.   

Around the racetrack?   I was at Streets of Willow last year, on a CBR900RR, the only thing slowing that old Honda down was ME.   Going into the first and second turn, 2 guys on Supermotos, a KTM 525 and a Husqvarna 610, went around the outside of me, tires  sliding, knees down, and that was the last I saw of them.   At  least they didn't lap me, the sessions weren't long enough.  So it really all depends on the rider out there on the racetrack.   I've got a lot of respect for those guys on their converted dirtbikes.   

My buddy makes his 86 cagiva elefant look insanely fun! Word up on converted dirt bike comment!

Did you not read his post?  ??? The numbers you are using are not comparable as Ducati went from rear wheel to crank numbers between the release dates on those models. There is about 20 HP between the two before or after doing the exhaust on both. The S4 has a high end punch that the S2R does not.

well were the guys going around you like in the ducati hypermotard poster with the knee down giving you the thumbs up at the same time?  lol that would have been classic.

 [laugh] [laugh] [laugh]
This thread is hilarious!  

RIF   [laugh]

+1 on that Bro. [laugh] [laugh]

LA

Bahaha figured I would getting flamed posting this... 8)

Will try and save a lil face by saying that I wasn't aware that the HP was measured at the crank in the later years... [drink]

Good spin... good spin

Well...I was chuckling at the grammar in your OP, and then your apparent misread of Spidey's informative post.   :) 

I - for one - would not laugh at someone for not knowing when a motorcycle company changed from measuring torque at the wheel to measuring torque at the crank. 

 [beer]

What Kind of Rims are on that Monster!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I think they're Dymags.

 [cheeky]
if yuo can raed tihs, you hvae a sgtrane mnid, too.
Can you raed tihs? Olny 55 plepoe out of 100 can.

i cdnuolt blveiee taht I cluod aulaclty uesdnatnrd waht I was rdanieg. The phaonmneal pweor of the hmuan mnid, aoccdrnig to a rscheearch at Cmabrigde Uinervtisy, it dseno't mtaetr in waht oerdr the ltteres in a wrod are, the olny iproamtnt tihng is taht the frsit and lsat ltteer be in the rghit pclae. The rset can be a taotl mses and you can sitll raed it whotuit a pboerlm. Tihs is bcuseae the huamn mnid deos not raed ervey lteter by istlef, but the wrod as a wlohe. Azanmig huh? yaeh and I awlyas tghuhot slpeling was ipmorantt! if you can raed tihs forwrad it.

 [beer]

Contested: http://www.snopes.com/language/apocryph/cambridge.asp (http://www.snopes.com/language/apocryph/cambridge.asp)