Ducati Monster Forum

Hi guys, I'm considering getting a Ducati Monster.  I've never owned a Ducati but I'm a motorcycle enthusiast and I find myself always changing as to what I get "enthusiastic" about.  My first 4 bikes were Japanese sport bikes, then I got a Honda VTX 1800 and customized it and loved it.  Then I got a Kawi ZZR1200 which was cool.  Most recently I've owned 2 more custom VTX's, I sold 1 last month and I'm selling my other one this weekend.  Anyway, I was at my local European motorcycle dealer just kicking tires and I just got swept off my feet by the whole Italian thing and I want one.  I think I want a monster.  I think an 1100 over a 696.  Just looking for any info, tips, opinions, etc that you guys may have before I buy.  I'll just ramble off a bunch of info that I think could be relevent to the subject. I'm basically looking for a fun ride that has a great "feel" and a little more comfort than a pure sport bike.  I've heard that many purists do not prefer the new style of the Monster, something about the subframe being aluminum, I sat on the new one and with what felt to be a shorter tank, it felt a little more comfortable.  I'm 6' tall, 35 years old, and 190lbs.  I have a wife, so she may want to go for the occasional ride on the back.  I live in Southern New Hampshire.  I've ridden motorcross bikes my since I was a kid and still do occasionally.  I've owned some form of motorcycle from the time I was 18.  I've gotten insane horsepower, wheelies, etc out of my blood and have found I'm more about appreciating the "finer things" for all that they are and I feel that's why I want a Ducati.  I'm looking for something that feels awesome.  What I mean is I guess I understand now that I'm older how, for example, a $75K Corvette Z06 will do alot of the things that some $300K European sportscars will do, as far as numbers and specs, but it still is not the 300K sportscar, if you know what I mean.  I really want a bike that is going to give me a special feeling that no other bike can deliver.  This shop down the street also has a really nice 2007 monster with some tasteful mods for around 8K.  I really liked it, black with the white stripe.  I liked the shop alot, everybody there seemed to be infatuated with the bikes and knew everything about them, very different then walking into the local Honda dealer where the salespeople almost always know nothing about anything, I liked the whole atmosphere there and the general appreciation for the bikes.  Another question I have is what are the differences between the SR4 and the regular 1100 and is it worth it to go that route?  I found this one that is close by to me that has alot of mods and seems to really well looked after.  The seller says he's flexible on the price. 

http://boston.craigslist.org/nwb/mcy/1225285011.html (http://boston.craigslist.org/nwb/mcy/1225285011.html)

Well, I hope I gave you enough info to kind of point me in the right direction.  Any comments, opinion's, criticism, info, etc, is much appreciated, there is something to be learned from everything.  Thank You, Ryan

I believe that beautiful S4R is actually being sold by one of our own members, Dr. Desmosedici. If you look in the Monsters for Sale section, you should see it.

Here's a model comparison for you: http://ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=25126.0 (http://ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=25126.0)

The S4R is the previous generation with the full trellis frame and a couple other differences from the M1100. So you should decide whether you like the new look better or the old look. They are quite different. The 1100 is also air cooled instead of water cooled like the S4R.

You seem to have a lot of experience riding so jumping straight on the bigger Monsters shouldn't be a problem.

Good luck with your search! That blue S4R is kinda rare and really well taken care of.  [thumbsup]

Welcome rileysdad,
Other then style preference, I guess the bigest deal would be if you want liquid cooled 4V (S4R) or an air cooled 2V (1100-I am assuming you are referring to the new Monsters).  If you like air cooled, but decide on the older SR styling, there are probably some good deals on the S2R1000's out there.  
As far as looks/styling goes, that is probably a never ending debate.  All about personal preference.  I like the SR bikes.  I prefer the look of the full trellis frame and the exhaust routing.
I guess the best advice I can give is to ride both and see which one feels better (positioning and power).  
Either way, a Monster will definitely give you that "oh yea" feeling every time you crank it up (especially with the right exhaust).  Good luck and I hope you find exactly what you want.  Then post up some pics.  

Welcome to the addiction.  ;D

My personal preference is for aircooled on a naked bike for a few of reasons.  Coming from Japanese bikes you probably experienced reasonable R&M costs. Search costs and there is a big difference between liquid cooled and air cooled maintenance expenses for Duc and neither are all that reasonable.  The bigger reason is I could never get used to that big radiator hangin off the front.  YMMV.

Although I prefer the S*R generation of Monsters I have considered the new 1100. One comfort difference is the seat on the new model. It has a much more pronounced V where the seat meets the tank. Sit on the S4R and the new one and you will see what I mean.

And it sounds like you have a good shop close to you which is very important in owner satisfaction with these bikes. Ducati shops tend to be much more passionate about their bikes then other shops I've visited.

Cheers

+1

Welcome!

To me, something about the liquid cooled bikes just doesn't work as well stylistically as the air cooled engines.  The air cooled bikes really show off the bike better, IMO.  You also need to factor in higher maintenance costs, but it doesn't sound like that's a problem for you.  The S2R1000 is worth a look if you plan to have a passenger.  Sitting on the back of an S4R is really no fun.  However, JBubble is correct: the blue S4R is kinda rare, and beautiful in person.

Good luck to you!   [thumbsup]

+1 on the blue s4r:-) that's the one i have and i must say the bike is so much fun once you get use to it.
Very powerful bike and kinda hard to tame at first.I've had mine since 04,maintaincance is average,never had a major problem with it.(Knock on wood)

Thanks guys for all the responses.  So, as far as maintenance costs, are they very costly to maintain.  I remember the old Ducatis being known for needing alot of maintenance, but I thought those days were gone.  Like say the first maintenance at 7500mi, what kind of money are we talking about for the 4 valve vs. the 2 valve.  The guy at the shop was telling me that he liked the air cooled bikes better too, something about the throttle response.  So is that the main difference between the s2 and s4, 2 valve air/oil cooled vs. 4 valve liquid?  I would think that the liquid cooled would be more reliable.  Any probs with overheating in the air/oil cooled?

What makes the s4r "hard to tame"?  Do you mean just because of it's power to weight ratio or is the handling hard to get used to?  Honestly, I'm really looking at these bikes specifcally for great handling.



Thanks for all the responses.

Never had any overheating problems with my S2R800 and a couple of hot summer days I have run the hell out of it trying to keep up with some bigger bikes.  The look is much cleaner than the liquid cooled bikes.  But the S4Rs are beasts. 
My little air cooled 800 has the look and the sound that I want.  Any more than that would just get me in trouble!  99% of all motorcycles are too fast anyway, but we wouldn't have it any other way.

Rileysdad...I have the 07 S4R and wouldn't have any other way.  I understand that the looks may not be as aesthetically pleasing to some, but to me, it looks beast with the radiator. 

There is nothing hard about "Taming" these bikes with your experience.  I have ridden just about everything and this is probably the easiest bike I have been on.  It handles great in the turns, gives you great torque and power.  I think mine has 130hp. 

The blue one you are looking at is sweet and has a lot of money invested in it already.  The exhaust would be the first thing you would want to upgrade and that one already has a great system.

Good luck...you will not be disappointed!

This thread has a lot of responses about service costs.  They're all over the place.  Probably would be best to check with the local dealer and ask for an estimate on each.
http://ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=1347.0 (http://ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=1347.0)

Thanks guys, I must say this is the most informative board I've ever been on.  I'm not into online chatting and such, but I get into these boards when I get into a certain bike, what a great resource.

DuPenguin, Thanks man, that's what i've been wanting to hear.  In my eyes, a bike can have 1000hp but it's only as powerful as you twist the throttle.  As long as the engineering (weight, center of gravity, rake, trail, ergos, brakes, etc) are top notch, that's what I'm looking for.  And as far as looks and the radiator, the bike is already as funky as a bike can look, what's a radiator. 

I am interested in the 2 valve engine though.  I'm dig low end torque a little bit more than high end RPM's (example:  I'd prefer driving a 350HP V8 over a 350HP hopped up import) I've always been under the impression that the 2 valve engine would be more torquey and the 4 valve would spin up faster but be a higher revver with more of that "powerband" kind of feel.  I like smooth usuable power througout the RPM range.  I guess I'll have to ride both and see.  Thanks again guys, this website is phenomenal!

as far as cost goes and i can only speak for the new 1100 my shop said no more than $850 for the 7500 mile service depending, might be cheaper. Like an idiot i didn't do all of my research ( cost of maintenance )shit the 600 mile service cost me $225 turned out to be worth it because they corrected something that made a world of difference.
(details are lame)
there are plenty of more experienced and knowledgeable people on this board that will chime in on the diff costs to maintain
if i misspelled anything i don't care I'm drunk. woo hoo for me !!!!

actually, if your looking at the new 696/1100's, one thing to add about maint costs, Ducati is offering the below promo.  Not sure of your average mileage, but something to consider.  Also not sure which dealer you are talking to. I don't know if all are in on this promo.   Based on the CL link, I'm guessing New England, so you have several very good options for dealers.  Someone must be offering it around here.  Of course there are also limits/details to consider. 
 
http://www.ducati.com/od/ducatinorthamerica/news/detail.jhtml;jsessionid=3CV0DLK3L5DBOCRNCB3CFFQKFUIHSIV2?newsId=28681 (http://www.ducati.com/od/ducatinorthamerica/news/detail.jhtml;jsessionid=3CV0DLK3L5DBOCRNCB3CFFQKFUIHSIV2?newsId=28681)

(http://www.ducati.com/od/ducatinorthamerica/ffs.jpg)

A lot of people will tell you their Ducatis give them this feeling.  That's not to say that other bikes won't.  It's just a common feeling among ducatisti.  When people talk about it, we get called snobby.   :-\


Worth it?  That's not an easy question to answer.  The S4r you're looking at has the 996 motor, not the 999 motor from the later S4r.  Personally, I like the older styling and the air-cooled motors (especially the motor on the 1100, which kicks ass).  Here's a long write-up I did of my week on an 1100: http://ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=13509.0. (http://ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=13509.0.)  There are comparisons to an S*r style frame.  And some short comparisons to 996 S4r.


The cost of maintaining a Ducati v. a Japanese bike shows up in two ways:  (1) 7.5/15k valve services and (2) cost of parts.  I found Ducs to be reliable, but if you're not doing your own maintenance, those 7.5/15k valve services can add up.  It's geographically dependent, but they can easily run over $500.  A 4 valve job is probably going to cost you $100-$300 more than a 2V.  But it's really all over the map.  Re parts, Duc OEM parts are really expensive.  You can generally find what you're looking for elsewhere (like eBay) cuz no one wants to pay $1500 for a tank. 


I don't know what he means by that.  The response is fine with both.


Nothing makes it hard to tame (except for the annoyingly tall stock gearing).  For great handling, the new 1100 rocks. 


There is no problem with overheating. The 2v motor has been around for quite some time now and they've worked out the major kinks.  They're reliable as hell.

S2 v. S4?  Check the link Jbubble posted explaining the different monster models.  I think you're asking about the s2r versus the s4r.  There is no such thing as the s2, and the s4 was an '01-'02 model.   Note that the s2r comes in two flavors:  800 and 1000.  The 800 is commonly referred to as the S2r while the 1000 called the S2r 1000 


That's pretty close.  The main difference between the aircooled (2v) v. liquid cooled (4v) is the power and the feel of the engine.  4v liquid cooled engines have a lot more HP and a lot more on the top end.  The 2v feels more immediate (don't know how else to describe it).  I don't think the torque is actually that different between say a 1000DS and a 996 s4r, but the 1000 feels more visceral.  the aircooled starts to feel flat as it approaches the rev limiter, while the 4v is smoother and wants to run.  In a straight line, I find it easier to unintentionally go faster than I intended with a 4v (hello speeding ticket), but I enjoy getting up to speed more with a 2v.  That said, compared to a Japanese I-4, they're much more alike than different.  They're both going to have a lot more torque, a more linear powerband, and less power up top.  An I-4 is just a lot smoother engine, with less feedback and a lot less down low.  Like you said, the best way to figure it out is to ride both.

Great informative post Spidey, Thank You! 

Welcome to the club!!!  Weigh your pros and cons and listen to the guys in this forum. I have lurked for along time just reading and reseaching and going over the old threads. I am confident that no matter what you get the rest of the forum will help you out where you need it. 

P.S. The 1100 is a BEAUTIFUL bike. ;)

RD -

Welcome! This place is a goldmine.  [beer]

A couple of things about the S4R, since I do believe you're lookiing at mine. 

FYI, I'm not selling it for any other reason than I'm moving to Denver in 6 weeks and am trying to lighten my load.  I found out today that  ForwardAir is only $495 terminal to terminal, so it's not by any means a catastrophe if it doesn't sell  :)

The bike you buy, whether it's 2V or 4V, is highly dependent upon the comptency of the person(s) servicing it and the way in which the owner treated it.  You do not want a bike that has barely been ridden and more than a few years old, as all manner of "bad things" (seals, gaskets, etc.) happen.  I bought a bike a couple years ago that was a "washed frequently and put away" type of bike, and ... Yeah, it was an interesting experience for sure.

Anyways, back on topic.  The 4V motors put out considerably more HP than the 2V - not trying to start a fight here with the aircooled crowd, just stating facts - and my bike today was running around 160 degrees F when I was taking it around Concord, Carlisle, Acton MA today on backroads.  Another thing to note about the 4V is that yes, they require maintenance every 6000-7500 miles, just as the 2V.  Eric @ Clubhouse motorsports (in the lakes region) has been the one responsible for all of the valve services on the bike, and no matter what duc you get, he's the guy to see about it.  For reference, the valves portion of the 6k service for my bike was ~$375, which isn't bad at all.  A few bucks more than the 2V, sure, but again I'd rather have the extra HP.

The '07 S4R has a testastretta (narrow head) engine which has some advantages, but not the low end grunt that the 996 has.

Any questions just let me know - you really can't go wrong with either a 996 or a 998 ('07) based monster, it all comes down to what turns you on.  If you're looking at a bike at Seacoast I have nothing but awesome things to say about Jesse + Co. they won't steer you wrong [thumbsup]

Cheers,
Adam

Here are dyno charts on the S4R and the 1100 for comparison - they're on different dynos, but it gives you a good idea of the power curves of both.

M1100:

(http://www.motorcycle.com/gallery/video.php/d/181325-2/AvI_Dyno_Chart_Monster1100.jpg)

S4R:


(http://image.sportrider.com/f/16325363+w750+st0/146_12+sportbike_peformance_dyno_charts+ducati_S4R_horsepower.jpg)


( Keep in mind mine has an open airbox, a full arrow system, and a PC3 that's tuned in - so it's more than this)

Yes, Adam, I contacted you about yours.  I would have liked to come today but life got in the way.  I sold my VTX yesterday and I have some money, I'm just doing my research now.  Your bike is beautiful, I just need to ride both motors and see what I like.  Yes it is Seacoast I'm dealing with, I live 2 miles from them and they are cool. 

Hey Adam,  how comfy is that rear seat compared to stock for a passenger?  My wife will want to come for a ride now and then.  Thanks

This is true of all Monsters.

If'n you want two-up get a Multistrada or ST3/4. [thumbsup]

Yep, what River said.  Any monster is NOT ideal for two up riding of any great distance.  That goes for the 696, the S2R, S4R, etc.  That's why I bought my FJR1300 (longish distance rides with my gal :)

Cheers,
Adam

Is this the other bike you're looking at?

(http://www.getpowersports.com/gam/images/dealerid/10/inventory/P1060629.JPG)

Definitely has some nice addons (Termi system, mirrors)  [thumbsup]

It's an Aircooled S2R 1000, so you get some of the nice bits (carbon fiber pieces here and there, a dry clutch you can bling out  ;D, etc.)  It's the air cooled motor FYI, so depending on your preferences for style that could be a win too. 

As I said, you can't go wrong  [thumbsup]

Cheers,
Adam

The link did not work but yes, based on your desc. I beleive that's it.  I'd like to check yours out today if you're around.

I am, this stupid weather pretty much guarantees that  [laugh]

Give me a shout at 603.344.7200 or send me an e-mail adam@mediascope.com

Cheers,
Adam