I also posted this on DM.ORG so I apologize if this is a double read for you.
I am looking at trading in my HD Low Rider for a sportier bike and I have been after a Monster for awhile. I test rode an 1100s yesterday and loved it, but I really don't want to spend that much on another bike which leads me to the 696. My biggest concern is that I will be disapointed with the 696 compared with the 1100. I tried searching for some good comparo stuff, but didn't really find much.
- How much difference is there really b/w the 696 and 1100 given the diff. in weight?
- Difference in the wet vs. dry clutch.
- Does the 696 have the same great sound with a full termi system?
- I mainly ride in the twisties, Blue Ridge PKWY so will the 696 have the torque to really pull out of the corners when traveling up hill?
- Anything good sources of info either reviews, videos or such?
I am going to test ride the 696 on Monday, but of course there is only so much you can determine in a 30 minute ride. The twisties aren't so close that I will have time to ride them w/i a test ride. From my reading it would seem switching to a 14t front sprocket would be a definate req. The dealer tried to get me to test ride the 696 before I left yesterday, but I'm hard headed and always want the biggest engine, but have found more than once that while getting the most bells/whistles, I would have been greatly satisfied with (in this case) a 4k savings.
Thanks for dealing with a newb.
Here's the answer to your wet clutch/dry clutch question
http://ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=20634.0 (http://ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=20634.0)
I think the biggest difference would be the suspension and not so much the engine. The 1100 has much better forks and shock even in base form and the 'S' is even better.
The 696 isn't bad, and it's got plenty of power and torque for the street. The sound is still good (the only way people know my M620 with Ex-box is so small is when I tell them). I find that I am actually faster on my 620 than on my 900SS because with less power there's less chance of overdoing it coming out of a corner and going for an unpleasant ride.
At the end of the day, ride both and see which one floats your boat more.
Even the 696 has more power than the HD does. ;D
Quote from: Saxiety on June 20, 2009, 03:41:08 PM
I also posted this on DM.ORG so I apologize if this is a double read for you.
I am looking at trading in my HD Low Rider for a sportier bike and I have been after a Monster for awhile. I test rode an 1100s yesterday and loved it, but I really don't want to spend that much on another bike which leads me to the 696. My biggest concern is that I will be disapointed with the 696 compared with the 1100. I tried searching for some good comparo stuff, but didn't really find much.
- How much difference is there really b/w the 696 and 1100 given the diff. in weight?
- Difference in the wet vs. dry clutch.
- Does the 696 have the same great sound with a full termi system?
- I mainly ride in the twisties, Blue Ridge PKWY so will the 696 have the torque to really pull out of the corners when traveling up hill?
- Anything good sources of info either reviews, videos or such?
How much difference in what?
- 696 will sound pretty good w/ an aftermarket exhaust. Note won't be as deep as the 1100, but will still be a good sound.
- 696 should have some good puch to it, especially if you opt for shorter gearing. Though the 696 is down vs the 1100, it will feel like a rocket vs most of the HD offerings.
1100S vs 696
- The 1100 will have nicer suspension, the 1100S will be even nicer.
- 1100 has lighter wheels
- 1100 Single sided swing arm
Quote from: yuu on June 20, 2009, 05:44:16 PM
How much difference in what?
I was thinking faster than I was typing there. I meant to ask, is the 1100 that much faster given that there is a difference in weight. If I were to switch out a lot of plastic parts to CF, would there be much performance gain with a 5-10 lb reduction in weight or is it mainly cool factor. I'm not trying to be a weight weenie here, but it can help in gaining approval from the boss in future purchases. ;D
>>but I'm hard headed and always want the biggest enginego with the bike that you'd be 100% happy with. you don't want to make such a significant purchase, then regret it later.
>>I mainly ride in the twistiesanother interesting difference between the bikes is that the 696 has lower ground clearance. one review i read actually implied that it was dangerous.
http://www.motorcycle-usa.com/102/2446/Motorcycle-Article/2009-Ducati-Monster-696-Comparison.aspx (http://www.motorcycle-usa.com/102/2446/Motorcycle-Article/2009-Ducati-Monster-696-Comparison.aspx)
Quote"In fact the only thing that limits the amount of cornering fun you can have on the Monster is its ground clearance or more specifically lack thereof. As opposed to the Aprilia the first thing to rub against the asphalt is the side stand. Continue to lean the bike over and you'll start to feel footpegs and shift levers scrapping. Don't worry though, because the Monster's smaller Bridgestone Battlax tires continue to grip and will continue you to carry you until you hit a mid-corner bump and high center on a hard part. Consider yourself warned."
Quote from: superjohn on June 20, 2009, 04:01:41 PM
I think the biggest difference would be the suspension and not so much the engine. The 1100 has much better forks and shock even in base form and the 'S' is even better.
Unless you fall into the 696 suspension's weight rating, the 1100 will ride better.
Is there enough plastic to replace that the CF would make a difference?
Quote from: Saxiety on June 20, 2009, 05:53:03 PM
If I were to switch out a lot of plastic parts to CF, would there be much performance gain with a 5-10 lb reduction in weight or is it mainly cool factor.
No offense to the newb, but am I the only one here that thinks it's hilarious that he's talking about 5-10 lbs of carbon after coming from an HD?
Quote from: Takster on June 20, 2009, 06:03:11 PM
No offense to the newb, but am I the only one here that thinks it's hilarious that he's talking about 5-10 lbs of carbon after coming from an HD?
Easy.
Yeah, even I have to admit that seems a little strange. The whole reason I'm getting rid of the HD is so I can carve some road though. Tired of scraping pegs every time I lean a little. The writer of the magazine article that talks about lean angle has no idea.
Quote from: Saxiety on June 20, 2009, 06:38:58 PM
Easy.
Yeah, even I have to admit that seems a little strange. The whole reason I'm getting rid of the HD is so I can carve some road though. Tired of scraping pegs every time I lean a little. The writer of the magazine article that talks about lean angle has no idea.
I think that pretty much settled the score. (Unless you need the lower seat height) Go for the 1100. 1100S if you could ($2k more, I think, is a bargain for all the Ohlin stuff). I can drag my boot pretty easily on the 696. But on the 1100 you are up higher and thus has more clearance for cornering.
Just to play devils advocate-have you considered the older line of monsters?
It'd be cheaper to get one, with the mods done, so you'd save money. If you get one of the S*R series you'd get plenty of cornering height and a really nice carving bike.
It's worth a look, unless you have your heart set on the new style.
I would also vote 1100.
I had a turbo charged Harley and I have ridden the entire Monster line including the 696 and 1100S. Any of them will be more fun in the twisties than the Harley. But, you sound like you will regret not getting the 1100S if you buy a lesser model and I can certainly understand that. It will be much cheaper to spring for the top of the line now, rather than trying to upgrade the engine and suspension later. Plus the 1100 looks cooler.
Having owned a M696 and now a M1100S, the biggest diff is in the torque. You can easily pop accidental wheelies if not careful on the 1100. As noted the height diff is also noticeable, but at 5'9" I like it. I can't say I feel the weight diff too much when going through twisties. I won't knock the 696, it's a great bike. I absolutely loved riding it (sans the clutch lever). I'm a fan of the dry clutch.
Regardless of which one you get, they are totally different from a HD and you won't be disappointed. If speed is your desire, don't worry about which bike. Red is the fastest color! [thumbsup]
ps I never really understood the fast color comments, but I thought I would throw that in there. ;)
Quote from: sfarchie on June 20, 2009, 09:44:46 PM
ps I never really understood the fast color comments, but I thought I would throw that in there. ;)
because it's true :D
sorta like, at least in HI, it was determinted that the silver painted ones were more prone to breakage
Well that's the rub with the 1100, it ain't in the budget for at least a year or so. I'll test ride the 696 Monday and see where that gets me. I am so ready to get on a sport bike but I don't care for much of the Japanese bikes due to either looks or ergonomics. I took a BMW F800 out for a ride and really liked it and based on that I think the 696 might fit the bill in terms of seat of the pants power. I thought the power delivery of the f800 was fine, but on the other hand the Monster is a bit more oriented towards sport riding to me over the f800.
If you like the F800, you'll like the 696 moire. I rode an F800s that didn't feel all that strong, but you look down and realize how fast you are going. My M800 on the other hand... compared to the F800s... feels like it's pulling harder out of corners. The #s for the M800 and the 696 are fairly close, enough for the comparison.
Quote from: sfarchie on June 20, 2009, 09:44:46 PM
Having owned a M696 and now a M1100S, the biggest diff is in the torque. You can easily pop accidental wheelies if not careful on the 1100. <<<I've heard this is possible on the 696 as well.
Regardless of which one you get, they are totally different from a HD and you won't be disappointed. If speed is your desire, don't worry about which bike. Red is the fastest color! [thumbsup]
ps I never really understood the fast color comments, but I thought I would throw that in there. ;)
That is something to take into account is that anything will be faster than the hog.
The 1100 will lift the front a lot more easily than the 696. i have not spent time on a 696, but have ridden 3 flavors of monster (620, 900, S4R) and the hyper motard. Out of those 4 bikes, the 1100 powered hyper was the most prone putting the front up.
Budget is a valid concern - so's the comment about getting a used monster. I'll my monsters have been purchased from board memebers - and there's a couple nice ones in the For Sale section at this time.
And we all know CF is the fastest color...
I plan on financing for a couple years, is that something the local dealer can handle?
Also, has anyone ridden a TuonoR 1000? That will be at the top of my budget but I plan on test riding that as well Monday.
motorcycles are very fragile toys to finance.
a 696 and a track school will be faster than either a 696 with lots of cf goodies or an 1100.
how much do you weigh yourself?
Well, I'm having a little issue with weight at the moment...225. I am dieting and plan to be down to about 190 in the next few months. I don't know that I've heard of a track school near me in Greenville, SC but I would definately be up for one. I have done a lot of reading and while the 696 is the smaller bike, it definitely seems like the 14t change and the termi system will make it a real blast to ride. I know myself and can be addicted to speed so something with a smaller motor may definitley be the best way to start into the sport bike world. I've run a HD Sportster I had up to 120 which is scary as sh!te as something that heavy which isn't really designed to go that speed.
budget for respringing either bike.
stock springs in the suspension are too soft for your weight. Springs for your weight (with gear) will make the bikes handle significantly better. I would do that before doing any exhaust upgrade, cf parts etc.etc.
I've got a 696 with termi's. It sounds absolutely awesome. But lift the front end? Only if you want to. There's definitely enough power to get into trouble, tho. Ride em both & make your decision. If you like the 696 enough & want to go new, you can always upgrade parts later. Like Statler says, you can always re-spring.
$400-600 should handle it all, inc labor.
As statler noted, you, me, him are all too heavy for the stock springing on Ducs.
Bike size might be an issue for you, if you're not a small guy - the 696 will be lower in the seat. As I've said, you might have a look at the used market for the near term - then go to an 1100 later on.
And as statler said, with some learning, one can get a 6xx monster moving quite well, especially on the streets.
Not sure if any of this will help, but...
I was in the market for a monster back in October. I was seriously considering a 696, although I did have concerns that I would "outgrow" the bike considering my ownership horizon of 4+ years. In the end, I purchased a lightly used S2R1000 and am glad that I did.
A few days ago, I had the bike in for a new rear tire and took a M696 out as a demo/loaner. After being on the bike with the bigger motor, I was definitely wanting more. The power, breaking, ergos and everything were great (although you will want the DP seat right off the bat) and I certainly can't ride the M696 to its limits, but the power of the 1000 or 1100 engine is addictive.
You can get a solid S2R1000 for about the same price as a 696, so I would add that to your list of bikes to consider. Of course it means that you have to ride the classic full-trellis frame... :)
Well the issue really comes down to 696 or not b/c of budget constraints. If I buy the 696, I'll probably keep it for a couple years and then upgrade. The budget is more of an issue for my wife than myself, but that is what it is. I'm getting out of the HD b/c she doesn't ride and as I've learned won't ever ride so I don't see the need for riding such a big bike since I don't really enjoy loping down the road. If I go with the 696, I can have a great bike with a smaller payment (makes the wife happy) and have a blast riding it. If it was purely a power issue, I could go get a litre bike and be done but I really get into the bike being Italian, that beautiful sound it makes and I really prefer v-twins. I tried to keep the financed portion low by saying let's put a couple grand down on the 1100 at which point I thought I would be castrated. There are somethings my wife will NOT budge on and this is one of them.
In terms of upgrading the shocks, what should I look for? I'll probably do the work myself b/c I hate paying someone else to do what I can unless there is something I don't know about with replacing the shocks on a 696.
I also want to say, thanks for all the feedback, it has been a great help.
1100s is only 15lbs heavier than the 696. the difference in power more than makes up for the weight. if youre worried about the power i would definitely save for the 1100. Ive been talking about the same issues with my dealer for a while. I rode my m620 and pretty much grew out of it in a year of riding. The bike was quick but lacked the shock factor that i think most people buy sport bikes for.
I decided to save up for the 1100 at minimum. the 1100s would be nice however the suspension difference will only be noticeable to a really seasoned rider or tracker.
My advice is save for the 1100 and dont test a 1100s. that way you wont know how much better the s is [cheeky]
I hope you aren't too upside down on your HD payments. I tried to trade my superglide in for a 696 last year, but I owed too much on the Harley. I'm gonna try again this year for either the 696 or 1100. I can't afford the S :'(.
Quote from: Saxiety on June 21, 2009, 05:54:05 AM
I plan on financing for a couple years, is that something the local dealer can handle?
Also, has anyone ridden a TuonoR 1000? That will be at the top of my budget but I plan on test riding that as well Monday.
The Tuono is a lot of fun. I test rode one the same day that I bought my Monster. Compared to the Monster, it is a much larger bike. It is also somewhat heavier, at least it feels that way. The Rotax 60-degree V-twin is bulletproof, but it has much more of a tractor feel than the L-twin, and it does not sound as good. Don't get me wrong, it is a great engine, and it will pull hard right up to the redline. The seating is much more upright on the Tuono. If you are tall, the T might be a better fit. I liked the T, but after one ride on the Monster my mind was made up.
Given your budget constraints, I'd look for a nice used S2R1000...
Quote from: ducaticop on June 21, 2009, 07:58:07 AM
My advice is save for the 1100 and dont test a 1100s. that way you wont know how much better the s is [cheeky]
wouldn't you know the demo is an 1100s. I'm working on the wife. It's "only" another 4k. Lol
Quote from: yotogi on June 21, 2009, 07:09:41 AM
Not sure if any of this will help, but...
I was in the market for a monster back in October. I was seriously considering a 696, although I did have concerns that I would "outgrow" the bike considering my ownership horizon of 4+ years. In the end, I purchased a lightly used S2R1000 and am glad that I did.
A few days ago, I had the bike in for a new rear tire and took a M696 out as a demo/loaner. After being on the bike with the bigger motor, I was definitely wanting more. The power, breaking, ergos and everything were great (although you will want the DP seat right off the bat) and I certainly can't ride the M696 to its limits, but the power of the 1000 or 1100 engine is addictive.
You can get a solid S2R1000 for about the same price as a 696, so I would add that to your list of bikes to consider. Of course it means that you have to ride the classic full-trellis frame... :)
Good Advice, this exactly what I did!
Quote from: Ivan on June 21, 2009, 09:04:14 AM
Given your budget constraints, I'd look for a nice used S2R1000...
I agree, you can find a real nice S2R-1000 for about half the price of a new 1100
I've been looking at the dealer for awhile and they don't seem to have any. There is a dealer about 100 miles away that has one. Even though I would like to stay with the new frame and body style the S2R1k is a great looking bike.
Quote from: devils haircut on June 21, 2009, 08:38:58 AM
I hope you aren't too upside down on your HD payments. I tried to trade my superglide in for a 696 last year, but I owed too much on the Harley. I'm gonna try again this year for either the 696 or 1100. I can't afford the S :'(.
No too bad. I've already been approved for the 696 but I'm trying to talk the wife into letting me try for the 1100. We will see soon.
Well, I went to the dealer this morning all geared up to make a decision. I decided to ride the F800ST again for comparison sake and then decided to scrap the whole deal before taking the 696 out. I am not going to trade in my bike upside down when I can sell it for more than I owe. Furthermore, it doesn't make sense to have more owed on a bike that the initial starting MSRP unless you've added something to the bike like pipes or other accessories. So, until another time. Thanks for the feedback. I will definitely go 1100 when the time comes.
While I know you will be wishing that you had pulled the trigger, way to make the correct decision for you.
And who knows, maybe the classic style monster will grow on you and you can find a clean S2R1000. Not that I am bias or anything. :)
why not an S4R?
Quote from: Saxiety on June 22, 2009, 09:57:42 AM
Well, I went to the dealer this morning all geared up to make a decision. I decided to ride the F800ST again for comparison sake and then decided to scrap the whole deal before taking the 696 out. I am not going to trade in my bike upside down when I can sell it for more than I owe. Furthermore, it doesn't make sense to have more owed on a bike that the initial starting MSRP unless you've added something to the bike like pipes or other accessories. So, until another time. Thanks for the feedback. I will definitely go 1100 when the time comes.
And this is EXACTLY what I went through last year, lol! Trust me, you wont stop wanting one...I know I haven't :'(
I really do like the older style S2 and S4R bikes. As a matter of fact it took me a little time to warm up to the new look. I do like the way the Monster rides and I'll tell you my biggest concern is whether or not I can keep the speed down. I was doing ~105 on the F800st today and wanted more but was running out of space. I know a Harley will do that kind of speed but it doesn't feel right. Feels like something is getting ready to fly off the next gust you hit. [laugh] The biggest amazement to me is wind management on a Ducati with hardley any kind of protection has less buffeting than a full HD Dresser with a batwing fairing.
Oh well, let me sell the hog and save some coin. Thanks again for all the great advice you gave me.
QuoteNo offense to the newb, but am I the only one here that thinks it's hilarious that he's talking about 5-10 lbs of carbon after coming from an HD?
Let's don't forget that it's all relative...and you know what the Japanese 600cc sport bike riders say about us :)
Quote from: Langanobob on June 23, 2009, 05:47:44 AM
Let's don't forget that it's all relative...and you know what the Japanese 600cc sport bike riders say about us :)
I was just joking around... I went from being a new rider with the "I'll leave it stock" attitude to the "I wonder if they make CF tire valve-caps" attitude in about 10 minutes.