Ducati Monster Forum

Was watching the cataluyna race and it loosk like they were all sticking their toe out before the left hand turns, they would let them hang for a bit and be very close to the ground then get back on the footpegs and complete the turn. Why do they do that?

According to the BBC commentator dude, they do that to find balance better. Like you would do when you ride a bicycle for example when you are out of balance.

I have seen it before in past races over the years. In past MotoGP seasons it was really only Rossi but in the Catalunya race it was Rossi, Lorenzo, Stoner, Pedrosa and maybe another. Like all the top 5 guys were doing it but I didn't notice anyone past 5th place doing it. I don't ever remember seeing Hayden or Edwards do it. Maybe there is a reason why those guys are in the top 5 and everyone was behind them. [laugh]

I remember Bayliss did it in WSBK but I don't ever remember seeing anyone else. Not Haga, Toseland, Corser... no one. Weird.

I just always figured that they were repositioning their shifting foot on the peg for a better cornering foot placement. You don't really see it going into right hand corners, mainly just lefts. I would assume they don't move their brake foot as much but who knows?? Rossi really held his out for a long time going into some turns. Even looked like he drug it on the ground once or twice in those last few crazy laps chasing Lorenzo. Interesting. Some how I don't think doing it will help my riding. :P

Yeah, the explanation used to be that their leg would come off during hard braking or that they would have to take it off the peg to reposition it if they were using GP shift.  Pedrosa did it a lot a year or two ago.  But they've been doing it a bunch more lately. 

Rossi's explanation is that he doesn't know why he does it but that it helps with "feeling" the bike.  They probably just haven't figured out the physics of it, but the riders have obviously picked up on something that helps them balance the bike better going into turns.  Or Rossi is making a big game of getting everyone to play follow-the-leader.   [laugh]

I agree with that last sentence, Spidey. Rossi probably does get something from it, but I wonder if all these other guys (most of whom have a different build than Rossi) really feel any positive difference. I also think it is a way to discourage an inside pass. I suspect that somebody is going to have an accident doing it. I seem to remember Rossi's boot actually catching on the track during that last lap battle with Lorenzo in the last race. It looked more like a third brake than a balance mechanism. It also shook his bike when it happened, as I recall. I would like to see a "keep your feet on the pegs" rule but since Rossi started the trend I don't think that rule would ever come to be.

The latest Roadwacing World had a blurb about it in the MotoGP Notes. I'll have to dig it up.

Rossi does it on right handers too, so its definately not just the shift foot.  Lets throw out another theory.  Sitting up on the bike helps slow the rider due to the wind blast, so could this just be another way to catch some wind and if so, since its on the inside leg, in theory it may help the rider "feel" as if its helping him turn when in fact its just the forces of the air sorta twisting his body to the inside a tad and giving that impression.  /shrug who knows

I'd test it out at the next track day except for the fear of looking like a retard.  ;D  I probably look like one anyway.   :P 

+1 on a crash happening at some point.  There could be some mangled legs out there.

A brief comment from Code on the topic:


Ripped off from here: http://www.bayarearidersforum.com/forums/showthread.php?p=4917998#post4917998 (http://www.bayarearidersforum.com/forums/showthread.php?p=4917998#post4917998)

I always thought it was the shifter foot re-positioning. BUT, Rossi has started doing it on right handers this year as well.  ???

I think they all wish they were on supermotos...

current theory is that they (the racers) think it allows them to brake a little bit deeper into the corner...

I think it is weight distribution.  They get some mass off to the side of the bike, like a ballast, and it allows them to either keep the bike upright longer, or transition faster, or something else to do with physics that us mortals can't explain because it does nothing for us.

mitt

warning: groundless speculation

You're counter steering away from the corner on corner entry to offset what you're hanging out on inside of the bike. The more they put the CoG of the bike/rider inside the bike, the more you have to countersteer to balance but also the faster/sharper they can flick the bike in (not sure on this last point). I would have thought this would only make a difference on very light bikes but not sure, I'm not professional racer. In theory it would make the CoG of the bike lower & to the inside (which is better) but not sure by how much. Could just be more comfortable than keeping your foot on the peg?

COG shift helping turn-in is what I thunk.  How far out, back, down, etc. you hang a 20lb leg would have a definite effect.

That can't be it.  Pedrosa's leg is measured in ounces.

Maybe he transfers some of his ego to his leg in turns...

 [laugh]

i rewinding the cataluyna race and caught rossi doing it on rights as well.

 i dont know, ill have to try it before i cant say anything about it because i honestly dont know.

Not to mention it moves the CoG closer to the front wheel. No idea if that's good or bad though.

Definately not repositioning, because Rossi goes a bit beyond adjusting his leg.   [laugh]  Its on the borderline ridiculous side of how far out and how long he dangles that leg.  My new theory is that he likes to rewatch the race and listen to the commentary suck on his nads about it.

make the beast with two backsstick McPintsize and Hopper were both hanging legs off two years ago:

(http://resources.motogp.com/files/images/xy/2007/MotoGP/FP2/n328742_204842_Dani+PEDROSA+crash+during+WUP._original.original.jpg)

Hayden even puts a hand down sometimes

(http://www.autoracing1.com/Images/PhotoOfWeek/2009/0426HaydenYukiTakahashiCrash3.jpg)

The leg-off thing has to be about weight distribution.  And it's a better technique than Lorenzo's new radical version of hanging off.

(http://www.mgpafrique.net/images/lorenzo-crash-china_04.jpg)

And anything has to better than Stoner's technique for getting more weight over the front end. 

(http://www.news.com.au/common/imagedata/0,,5700858,00.jpg)

Schwantz does the repositioning thing around 1:57, but it's hardly a dangle.  Kevin Schwantz #34 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1dMOUw1lYSs#lq-lq2-hq-vhq)

the doing it into right handers is definitely a new thing.

i think it started as a hybrid former-dirt-person/GP-shift-reposition-for-lefts/who-knows thing and has since become a maybe/maybe not imaginary trick for handling very deep braking. 

all the new guys you see doing it now, you'll see them doing it only under heavy braking.  i've seen the media (and mladin) make fun of them, but hey... if you think it helps you, it does.

Maybe I'm missing something, but it seems to me a foot on the peg transfers weight low and to that side.  Taking your foot off the peg puts the weight of your leg back on the seat.

I like this theory and your first one! [laugh] Although your first one wasn't nearly as funny as this one. [laugh] Quite frankly this has degenerated into a funny as hell thread. Spidey's posted pics absolutely cracked me up!! I'm still leaning towards extra wind drag and COG stuff. Guess I missed the right hander foot off peg stuff. Again, none of this goofy shit is ever going to help me. Still fun to watch though. [thumbsup]

WELL...I would say that it puts the weight on the seat except by this point they have also shifted their body so it isn't centered...the center of their body is to the inside of the bike when this transfer is occurring....so the whole center of gravity for braking and turning is changed from what you would be thinking in terms of weight on the seat and therefore the dynamics are of a different fluidity.

Maybe their balls keep sticking to their thighs. [moto]

A bit off topic, but can someone post up the video clip of this event?  It's always good for a little comic relief. 

There should be some new technique photos after the german qualifying circus...

mitt

LMFAO!! Spidey I don't know why, but that had me pissing myself with laughter. everytime I see him lining up on the grid, I'll think of him with that new name!  [thumbsup]

http://www.motogpmatters.com/opinion/2009/07/22/the_truth_behind_the_rossi_leg_wave.html (http://www.motogpmatters.com/opinion/2009/07/22/the_truth_behind_the_rossi_leg_wave.html)

I saw that article the other day.  Not sure if I agree that the first use of the leg-dangle was the block-pass on Gibernau, but otherwise it's as good an explanation as I've heard anywhere else.

I think it could make someone feel more comfortable about late braking, but I think more than anything it's a blocking technique.  No one wants to be the guy that got ahead by clipping a dangling leg and causing a crash.

I think it increases "feel" on the bike.  Think about a 3 legged chair vs a 4 legged chair.  You can feel direction shifts better.  you usually see them do it when they are headed into a corner too hot.  the leg comes free to get a better feel for traction (my opinion). 

I know that when I rode dirt bikes I could get the wheels sliding and felt more confident when I had the inside leg off of the peg.

That's the most logical explanation so far.

Minor threadjack: love the super cool Bladerunner reference in your avatar!!! [thumbsup] [clap] [bacon] Awesome flick!

Yeah..that's been said..but after watching last weeks race..I almost think Rossi does it to block riders from trying to pass him.  Did you see his foot sticking way out last week so the rider (I think Lorenzo?) couldn't pass.  It could have been that he needed to regain his balance though.  Who knows?  I don't think he's a dirty racer.  Just had a different take on it after I saw that move.   

Kind of like Jordan taking an extra step back in the day and getting away with it.. .. ..cuz he's Jordan.

Nobody put their knee down until one person did it and figured out it made them go faster in the turns.  This could be the same thing. 

Anyone try it at the track lately?

I know I stick my leg out (not on purpose obviously and in no way comparing my..uh..skills? to those guys) when I feel like I may go down and it stablizes me.  Kind of takes me back to riding my old DR 350 in the dirt.     

OMG spidey, I've literally pissed myself.
[clap]

Uh, I'm hoping that was a misuse of the word literally.

IZ you sure your not sticking it out so Dietrich can't pass you? ;D

My thoughts exactly. They do it all the time so when they do it to really block someone they can just say they're not doing it with the intention to block.

that theory cracks me up

These guys muscle their bikes unlike road riders. Road riders are a passenger on a bike as it goes through a corner. A racer defies all physics to make the bike go beyond its normal capabilities.

it is all about the apex, grip, position entering and exerting the corner. These guys are making the bike do things that it is not designed to do, that is why Rossi just says "I don't know why I do it".

What they are doing (for example) going into a left hand corner (remembering they have slipper clutches): On entry they are still braking, they are forcing down the right hand peg (like doing a squat) while pulling back on the right hand handle bar. With the lean angles these bikes have now they can perform this maneuver a lot more aggressively by taking all the weight off the left peg, which means the left leg is swinging in the breeze. They are already pushing down on the right peg as they accelerate to keep the weight of the front tyre. 

The legends of the 500cc era perfected rear wheel steering, but now with traction control the legends of the current era are still pushing the limits and still rear wheel steering.

The current day legends are forcing the bike to go where they want it to go, thats why they are legends.

Cheers [beer]

And it's spreading. Saw Bautista and Simoncelli do it in Brno.

Shit!  The doctor told me that the cream would take care of it...

practising for looking like everyone else when they do it in GP I bet...LOL

I saw Scott Russell at the track the other day, and somebody asked him about the leg thing.  He said he doesn't know why Rossi does it, but he used to do it when he scared himself coming into a corner too hot  :D

And how many times has the doctor had to tell you that?  [cheeky]

This is actually in an article in the current (Aug 09) Bike magazine - they have a multi page interview with Rossi on cornering.  It's a great read.

According to the article he sticks his leg out to "increase braking leverage and improve his balance."  You'd have to read the article to understand fully what that refers to.

If you can find it at your local Barnes and Noble I'd recommend it.  One of the best articles I've read in a while plus they're are three different ride comparisons for the Streetfighter, M1100 and 848 and a good write up on the DesmoD as well.

+1  I picked up that issue earlier this week.  Lots of good content in this one.

+1 great issue

I tried to find the August copy of Bike magazine but none of the B and N had them anymore. Does anyone know a good source for back issues?

Did anyone notice during Sunday's MotoGP at Misano that Rossi and other riders rarely would hang their leg out before a turn. It just sort of dawned on me while watching the race, then I really started looking for it and hardly saw anyone doing it at all. Weird. Why does Rossi and others do it so often at some tracks and then hardly ever at the San Marino track?

I do it all the time... but it's always in a straight line because my knee hurts. ;D