Ducati Monster Forum

first shot fired:

Simoncelli to Gresini Honda Motogp 

http://www.crash.net/motogp/news/148874/1/marco_simoncelli_to_motogp_with_honda.html (http://www.crash.net/motogp/news/148874/1/marco_simoncelli_to_motogp_with_honda.html)

The part that stuck out when I first read that article was how he "politely declined" a satellite Duc.   [laugh]

Let me quote myself . . .

Who's spot is he taking?

FTFA:

Gresini Honda is currently experiencing a difficult season with Toni Elias and Alex de Angelis. de Angelis is 13th in the championship with 25 out of a possible 150 points while Elias, who has a factory spec RCV, is one place and two points behind the San Marinese.

At least one rider will now leave the team at the end of the year, and possibly both.

WSBK is looking really good next year. :P

Spies is talking to Aprilia?!?  Gossip from DaineseDan . . .

john ulrich:  http://forums.13x.com/showthread.php?p=2591539#post2591539 (http://forums.13x.com/showthread.php?p=2591539#post2591539)

John Ulrich is gonna be racin' a WSBK priller?!?  Now that's some good gossip!


 ;D

"...has left Spies with the palm of a nose..."  ;D

Gotta love those translator apps    [thumbsup]

Lorenzo to a new single-bike HRC team?  ...pedro to fiat yamaha??

http://www.motogpmatters.com/news/2009/07/07/lorenzo_rumors_increasing_telefonica_hon.html (http://www.motogpmatters.com/news/2009/07/07/lorenzo_rumors_increasing_telefonica_hon.html)

I think Pedro is the logical choice for Rossi's teammate tbh.  Those two get along pretty decent it seems, regardless of how fast Pedro is.  I dunno how Yammy would take to Puig though.  Lorenzo would improve Honda and in turn improve the field, since so many riders are on Honda.  You would imagine Honda would ditch that pocketbike and redevelop a slightly larger version if Lorenzo were to move, which would probably benefit all the Honda guys.  Also, rule changes or not, the 800cc era is getting itself some age and hopefully the performance gap will shrink in the next few years as is the norm with this sort of thing.  By next year all the factories should have proper chassis for the stones and the engine performance should be even closer.

So lets say Lorentho leaves and Pedro stays.  Who then for the other Fiat seat?

Kurtis Roberts

Spies  ;D

I think Spies still qualifies under the new "rookie" rule though, doesn't he?

Jeebus, I hope not.

I'm believing that he's too tall and heavy for the current crop of 800's....

yeah, the only factory bike he could get in year 1 of his motogp career would be the suzuki.

he's about the same size as rossi...

and as already noted there's at least a rumor around that he has already signed a new 2-year deal with yamaha: 1 more year in wsbk then a move to Tech 3, with full factory support.  unless he wins the sbk title this year, then maybe 2010.

Rossi:  182cm  67kg

Spies:  180cm  72kg

According to my quick interwebz search, Spies runs about 160, Rossi about 135.

Where are trustworthy rider weights found?

i dunno.  but i'm gonna guess that there is some marketing in that rossi number.

either way, it's clear that ben still has his sights set on GP.  he's joe super fit anyway; i'm sure if he had to lose 10 lbs, he would.

That rule sucks.  :-\ I thought it was only a rumor...not that it had been passed already.  [puke]

I got my weight off motogp.com for Rossi, and converted Ben's weight posted on his website to kg.

since the beginning of 2008 the Tech 3 bikes have been factory or very-nearly-factory.  the (not at all surprising) word is that if/when he gets a Tech 3 bike, the agreement is that it'll be no different than the Fiat bike.. all year long. 

basically that rookie rule is irrelevant if the factory wants to make it so.

Dunno if Spies could lose 10 lb without losing strength, but maybe that's not a big issue.

He's built like me and JoeC, *very* lanky.
I'm 6'1" 165, I could lose 5 lb without issue, but after that I'd be losing muscle.

ok, so then 5lbs...   [cheeky]

they say that nicky is about 20lbs lighter than when he was in sbk.  different body type, i know.  i'm just sayin'.

and rossi isn't?  ;D

 [laugh] yeah, he's lanky, for sure.

My point being that other than Rossi, the guys consistently finishing near the pointy end are more in the sub 130 lb (59 kg) range.
Even if Spies thins down to 150, he's still giving away 40 to Pedro, and 20-30 to the other guys.

Does the rider weight actually matter? Isnt there a minium weight calcutated for the bike + rider. Just saying if the rider is on the heavier side cant they drop the bike weight? And the rider on the slimmer size forced to add some weight to the bike. Or minium weight calculated with bike only.

nope... min weight for bike only.

The minimum weight for bike only just slays me.  [roll]

DORNA needs to talk to the NHRA.

f1 is car+driver...

Yeah, but who wants to talk to the FIM?  [laugh]

Seriously, there's other motorsports groups that have figured out that rider/driver weight is a parity issue.

Bike+rider minimums won't level the playing field completely, but it would make it closer.

Pedrosa may be a gifted 'starter' (or not), but it's like he's shot out of a cannon.

I thought the bikes have "start line" settings these days anyway right?  Punch a button and go full throttle... although riders smoking tires ( Jorge ) and getting bad starts would seem to disagree with my notion here.

If they do in fact have electronic settings for starts, then light riders on bikes with good drive will always win out.  It really just comes down to reaction time off the tree.

Anyone know the facts here?

there is currently launch control.  however it will soon be outlawed.

regardless, i'm sure that pedro's starts have a lot to do with his size.  and i have faith in ben in being able to overcome that 8).  unless maybe pedro gets healthy and gets on a fiat yamaha and is never seen again.

and if they actually go back to big bikes, this'll still be an issue.. but less of an issue.  everyone involved in the series wants racing; there hasn't been enough of that since 2007.

If the starts are THAT important the factories should try and sign Rickey Gadson!!! [laugh] I bet he can learn to ride a bike through a turn. [thumbsup] [moto] ;D

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/76747 (http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/76747)

http://www.motogpmatters.com/news/2009/07/10/pedrosa_no_wall_needed_with_lorenzo_as_a.html (http://www.motogpmatters.com/news/2009/07/10/pedrosa_no_wall_needed_with_lorenzo_as_a.html)

Of course they don't need a wall between them...the midget can't see over a ruffle in the garage carpet. Out of sight, out of mind ;D

would be quite the spanish coup if Dorna and Repsol could get pedro and george on their bikes

http://www.motogpmatters.com/news/2009/07/17/lorenzo_i_m_worth_more_than_yamaha_are_o.html (http://www.motogpmatters.com/news/2009/07/17/lorenzo_i_m_worth_more_than_yamaha_are_o.html)

He may not be worth so much after a season on the Honda. :-\

i guess we see how this goes...  http://www.motogpmatters.com/news/2009/07/16/pedrosa_to_use_new_engine_at_sachsenring.html (http://www.motogpmatters.com/news/2009/07/16/pedrosa_to_use_new_engine_at_sachsenring.html)

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/77094 (http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/77094)

oh snap, valentino

And it's ON!  Rossi was talking about himself in third person.  This is getting serious.  [laugh]

We should start taking bets about what the 2010 field is going to look like.

I'm amazed that anyone would consider running a Duc at this point unless the "make it so that Nicky can ride" project actually turns the GP9 around.

Well, if they keep putting new riders on ducs, statistically they should eventually find another one who can ride 'em.  :P

Agreed, though, that doesn't seem like a smart move.

I'd bet Ducati is offering the bikes at a cut rate compared to the other manufacturers.

there have been at least 2 250 riders this season who want to come up but have refused to ride the ducati.  it's become known as the "career killer"

...but apparently there's one who'll risk it

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/77246 (http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/77246)

there's now definition of "rookie" in motogp: <9 races

http://www.motogpmatters.com/news/2009/07/25/fim_clarifies_rookie_rule_less_than_9_ra.html (http://www.motogpmatters.com/news/2009/07/25/fim_clarifies_rookie_rule_less_than_9_ra.html)

So I guess Mr. Spies won't be heading to FIAT-Yamaha.

Can anyone say Suzuki? ;)

Who's riding for Tech-3 next year?  Its up in the air who rides for Fiat.  Lorenzo/Pedro or Colin, but I'd imagine Toseland is toast.  Why wouldn't Spies head to the Tech-3 team?

I doubt it.  I'd say Tech3 Yamaha.  Dunno who'll fill the FIAT seat -- Edwards or Pedrosa.  Very outside chance of Dovi.   I'd like to see Edwards (cuz he and Rossi get along as teammates) and then Spies on FIAT a year later with Edwards retiring. 

If I were FIAT however, I'd go for Pedrobot.  A Pedrobot/Spies team in two or three years sounds pretty good in terms of having a contendah.   [thumbsup]   [moto] 

Spies is on record as saying he isn't interested in riding for a satellite MotoGP team, so that excludes FIAT/Yamaha but not Suzuki.

The chances of Edwards going back to FIAT-Yamaha are pretty slim.

there is supposedly a deal out there already that leaves him at yamaha wsbk for one more year and then goes to tech-3 but with full factory support... basically going around the rookie rule.  or potentially next year if he wins this year.  may have been in this thread, even..

Provisional 2010 calendar announced by FIM A provisional race calendar for the 2010 FIM MotoGP World Championship has been released today.

The provisional 2010 Grand Prix schedule for the FIM MotoGP World Championship is as follows:

Date - Grand Prix - Circuit:
11 April - Qatar* - Losail
25 April - Japan - Motegi
2 May - Spain - Jerez
16 May - France - Le Mans
30 May - Italy - Mugello
6 June - Great Britain - Silverstone
26 June - Netherlands** - Assen
4 July - Catalunya - Catalunya
18 July - Germany - Sachsenring
25 July - United States*** - Laguna Seca
15 August - Czech Republic - Brno
29 August - Indianapolis - Indianapolis
12 September - San Marino & Riviera di Rimini - Misano
19 September - Hungary - Balatonring
10 October - Malaysia - Sepang
17 October - Australia - Phillip Island
31 October - Portugal - Estoril
7 November Valencia Ricardo Tormo-Valencia

* Evening Race
** Saturday Race
*** Only MotoGP class

In the event that one of the circuits is not able to comply with the requirements to hold the scheduled Grand Prix, the Motorland Aragon Circuit would host a reserve “event” on the same day.

Spies will follow the money. Count on it. With the rule clarification I can understand why FIAT/Yamaha is out but why wouldn't Suzuki be ruled out as well?

I think because they don't run any satellite teams.

Suzuki is exempt from the rookie rule due to exactly that fact.  If they can get their development ramped up a bit more, that could be a strong suit for Suzuki, since they'd have the pick of the crop each year to head straight to a factory team.

in at least 4 years they haven't been able to do that.  i wouldn't hold my breath..

 -- but i would bet there'll be at least one empty seat at that team next year.

granted he's only going to become moreso, but the guy is already a multi-millionaire.  money is great 'n all, but he wants to win.

and while factory yamaha may be out (for a year), all yamaha has to do is agree to give him factory support at Tech 3.  no reason they can't do that.

http://www.motogpmatters.com/news/2009/08/03/lorenzo_saga_nearing_conclusion_it_s_yam.html (http://www.motogpmatters.com/news/2009/08/03/lorenzo_saga_nearing_conclusion_it_s_yam.html)

Am I the only one who thinks that Lorenzo staying with Fiat affects Spies' chance of getting a factory supported Tech 3 ride?

i certainly don't.

yes.

apparently  ;)

Is Corse ready for Ben's mom?

http://www.motorcyclenews.com/MCN/sport/sportresults/MotoGP/2009/August/aug0509-ducati-ponder-ben-spies-swoop/?R=EPI-117354 (http://www.motorcyclenews.com/MCN/sport/sportresults/MotoGP/2009/August/aug0509-ducati-ponder-ben-spies-swoop/?R=EPI-117354)

Suppo recently confirmed that Pramac Ducati rider Mika Kallio will definitely be staying to ride a GP10 next season. Ducati is poised to exercise an option to keep the Finn.

and you can be sure the same is not true for Canepa.

I don't like saying it, but I hope Ben stays away from the Duc.  :'(

It'd be great to see him on a Duc if it were a competitive mount for anyone besides Stoner.

personally...looking at the track record for the Duc GP bikes...I think that would be a mistake for Ben...now, if he ended up on an 1198R in WSBK...that is a whole horce of a different color and I think I;d like to see that!!!

Am I the only one who thinks that whether or not Lorenzo stays at Fiat, Ben would be an idiot to get on a GP10?   ;D

nope...cause I said it right before you!!!

The GP* is a career killer, but if Ben could manage to ride it like Stoner, then that would be sick. He would be an idiot if he decided not to ride for Yamaha.

i hope he doesn't do it.  and i'd like to see what would happen if he did.

and +1, hope he stays on the yamaha in either series.

That would be awesome! I'd love to see him take Haga's place. If he stays in WSBK, I think he'd be stupid not to join the Ducati team. Maybe then go to GP in a couple years if they can get that bike together.

However, if he goes straight to GP then Yamaha should be his choice.

Am I the only one who thinks that no matter what Lorenzo does, having Ben and Douchebrizio on the same WSBK team might not be an ideal coupling?

 [laugh] Harsh!

I think it would be great. They're the two fastest guys in the paddock right now. Great competition...and Ben would have the best factory support in WSBK.

ben seems to be doing just fine in worldsbk on a first year development bike...

short term, he's not wanting for anything save some reliability. long term, the yamaha is a damn good bike in motogp.

what does he gain by going to ducati? a bike that's competitive with his current yamaha, but a complete crap shoot if he moves up to motogp.

In WSBK he gains a more reliable bike...something that may cost him a championship this year. Granted the Yamaha is a 1st year bike so reliability may not be an issue next year. Although, can all of the mechanicals this year be attributed to a 1st year bike? Anyway, Ducati seems to be the best paddock in WSBK, from fan support to factory support. I don't know for sure if it is from a factory support standpoint...but it seems that way. Fan support for sure...he could be the next Bayliss if he starts rattling off championships.

Agreed the Yamaha is the bike to be on in GP...and is awesome in WSBK as well. If he plans on jumping to GP in the next 2-3 years then the Yamaha is the safe choice...it will surely be an awesome motorcycle. The Duc might be better by then too though.

I expect him to stay on Yamaha...but I'd really like to see him on a Duc.  ;D

IMO, it would be a questionable career move for Ben to move to MotoGP (especially a satellite team), without winning the WSBK championship first.

That's unless he's only interested in the paycheck.

Aren't we all just interested in a paycheck. Just because their work includes something they love to do, does not mean that they're willing to get paid less for it.

I thought the Yammie contract/offer was another year of WSK then MotoGP with factory support unless he wins the
WSBK title (or if other contingencies take place), in which case he'd go straight to MotoGP.

While Ben's got more than enough $ to keep him happy, his mom/manager has always made it clear that the benjamins matter.

Mommy loves her pretty meal ticket, yes she does.

insert Gollum chanting about "my precious"....

you're waaaay off base there.

indeed.

we're all cheering for ben now in large part due to her continuous efforts.

i don't think anyone can argue with the results.  she's just an easy target because she's also "mom".

"all of the mechanicals" - ?  running out of gas once is a technical screw up but not unique to yamaha at all.  a broken shifter is just.. a broken shifter.  shit happens.  so if you give them 1 fuk up, they've really only had 1 more: the clutch thing.  and they brought in new crew since then.

no argument that the duc is the most developed bike out there, has been for years.  but the guys in milan are doing pretty damn good for a year 1 bike.  ben is 1 win shy of twice as many as nori, even when you add in all the crashing/being taken out.


anyway, i have this sick little curiosity to see what ben would do on a GP10.  but mainly i hope he stays with yamaha in either series.

+1

No reason to hate on her just because she's family.  If you have a capable family member that can handle your management, its better than dropping your cash on a third party or management company.  Racer's families should be owed some of that money anyway, because many of them have to sacrifice a hell of a lot to support their kid's racing ambitions.

You read too much into "all of the mechanicals".  ;) The broken shifter seems to be the only one that really isn't anyone's fault. Without the other 2 issues, Ben would most likely be in 1st though. I agree though...it hasn't been continual issue, and they've definitely gotten better. It likely won't be an issue at all next year.

How much do you guys think the R1 is a new bike? New engine for sure...but isn't most everything else just an evolution of the bike they had before? It definitely isn't as new as the Aprilia or BMW, right?

I'd also like to see him try to ride the GP10. Wonder if he could test it before he decided where to sign?

sure, it's not brand new from the ground up like the Ape or BMW, but new (not updated) engine = redesign the bike around it.  and the milan R1 is significantly different from the showroom bike.



usually no way jose.  that's why they still had folks dying to ride that bike for 2008... ;)

So he isn't her meal ticket? So she represents other racers and doesn't depend on hom making money at all? I'm just trying to quantify my statement. I'll take it back if she's representing someone else. If she's not then she's 100% dependent on him being out there and making money. So how am I exactly off base? If I didn't have a job then my wife would be my meal ticket.

He is definitely one of the top riders in any series, but considering how many careers the GP** has destroyed, I would only wish that bike on the most hated riders. Stoner seems to be the only person in this worls with the unique riding style to actually be competitive on it.

it's also sexism, frankly.  if his dad had lobbied that hard to get him the yosh ride and then lobbied that hard to get him paid what he deserved, we'd all be saying make the beast with two backs yeah pops!


she didn't need the money in the first place.

I have no issues with saying that he is his pop's meal ticket either. Again, if they have any other source of income I will take back any comments about being a meal ticket. I am my wife's meal ticket at the moment, until she a) finally gets hired or b) leaves me for a richer/better looking person, at which point he will become her meal ticket.

 [thumbsup]

http://www.crash.net/motogp/news/150785/1/14_motogp_seats_up_for_grabs.html (http://www.crash.net/motogp/news/150785/1/14_motogp_seats_up_for_grabs.html)

The fun is just beginning.....

Opinions, if you please!  ---- if the Yamaha is considered (by many here) of being the best bike, and it was arguably the worst bike in 2003, then how much of that improvement can be attributed to the involvement of the (development) rider(s), such as Rossi?

Also, if only Stoner can successfully ride the Duc, then what does that say about Ducati's (and Stoner's) ability to develop a bike?

two words: jeremy burgess.



volumes.

+1

Don't forget how successful Jerry was prior to Rossi as well.  Its the rider, but a lot is Jerry too.  Chief Engineer to Rossi, Doohan, Gardner, and also wrenched for Spencer/Mamola/Haslem.

how about the condensed version? ;D

http://www.motogpmatters.com/news/2009/08/12/bautista_to_sign_two_year_deal_with_suzu.html (http://www.motogpmatters.com/news/2009/08/12/bautista_to_sign_two_year_deal_with_suzu.html)

http://superbikeplanet.com/2009/Aug/090812jt.htm (http://superbikeplanet.com/2009/Aug/090812jt.htm)


.....more speculative articles that answer no questions... ;)

http://www.motogpmatters.com/news/2009/08/12/hector_barbera_signs_aspar_motogp_deal_f.html (http://www.motogpmatters.com/news/2009/08/12/hector_barbera_signs_aspar_motogp_deal_f.html)

http://www.motogpmatters.com/news/2009/08/13/honda_to_pen_new_deals_with_repsol_pedro.html (http://www.motogpmatters.com/news/2009/08/13/honda_to_pen_new_deals_with_repsol_pedro.html)

Dovi and Pedrosa have officially re-signed with Honda.

or.... http://www.motogpmatters.com/news/2009/08/14/puig_pedrosa_hasn_t_signed_with_honda_ye.html (http://www.motogpmatters.com/news/2009/08/14/puig_pedrosa_hasn_t_signed_with_honda_ye.html)

melandri to gresini.

official?

http://www.motogp.com/en/news/2009/melandri+back+in+gresini+in+2010 (http://www.motogp.com/en/news/2009/melandri+back+in+gresini+in+2010)

bautista confirmed at suzuki for two years:

http://superbikeplanet.com/2009/Aug/090816b.htm (http://superbikeplanet.com/2009/Aug/090816b.htm)

Hmm...wonder if that means The Mole is gone? Or maybe Capi? Or maybe both?

From what I've read, its Bautista and Capirex next year.  I guess the Mole is heading back to wsbk.

And to add a little more colour to the rumour mill, from SuperbikePlanets twitterstream this morning, Lorenzo to _Ducati_, Hayden to TechIII...

I don't believe that one.

+1. Although it might be good for both riders.
Nicky gets a rideable bike. Jorge gets a buckin' bronco and realizes how good he had it before.  ;D

aside from the possibility of having a two (or three) american team, hayden to yamaha isn't so far fetched. they were ready to give him a ride when he left ama superbike for motogp.

and then there's this:

http://www.visordown.com/motorcycle-racing-news-moto-gp/lorenzo--ducati--6m-contract/7857.html (http://www.visordown.com/motorcycle-racing-news-moto-gp/lorenzo--ducati--6m-contract/7857.html)

That would be great for Ducati and horrible for Lorenzo's career.

I gotta say Hayden to Tech III and not Fiat is weird unless Yamaha can bypass the rookie rule and get Spies to Fiat.  It's even more weird because Melandri and Dovi (fast Italians who would make sense on the Fiat team) are already signed up.  Actually, on second thought, Fiat doesn't need another Italian.  A Spaniard is a good idea for marketing purposes.

i think that no matter which yamaha team spies goes to, he's going to have a rossi-level bike.

Oh, definitely.  I just find it weird that Hayden would go to Tech III, which would mean that Fiat would limit their choices for Lorenzo's seat to the existing MotoGP paddock instead of having their pick of everyone.  Isn't the common wisdom that if Spies is in MotoGP in 2010 (instead of 2011), it's with Tech III?

CE is gonna stay put.  And either way, everyone knows JT ain't cutting it.  I'd be really surprised to see him on a Tech III bike in 2010. 

i'm pretty sure JT is headed back to production-bike land

re jorge, more of the same, but interesting... http://www.motogpmatters.com/news/2009/08/15/ducati_chasing_lorenzo.html. (http://www.motogpmatters.com/news/2009/08/15/ducati_chasing_lorenzo.html.)  ironic that just a couple months ago we were talking about how totally screwed ducati is if something were to happen to stoner

...seems that both ben and jorge are holding up decisions across both series.

and as an aside, interesting quandry: which of the two new gresini riders do you give the factory bike to?  cuz they only get one.

Interesting question.  I was gonna say that with Dovi and Pedrosa signed up for two more years with Repsol, it would go to Melandri, but I'm not sure that makes sense.  I dunno. 

really hard to say... marco rode the crap out of that back office kawi this year.  and all his GP wins (5, i think) came on a gresini honda.  ok, not an 800.  but he does have ~seniority.  however marco s is the new hotness and maybe you want to give him the best chance outta the gate.  add into that the even-more-limited new engine rule for next year... yadda yadda

i just wanna know where ben is going to land.  ;)

i'd argue that melandri is a known quantity and simoncelli isn't. you give melandri the "good" bike and see what the other marco does with the "regular" rc.

agreed.  or you let them ride both one day and see what happens.  or this has long ago been decided in contracts.

Melandri himself said that Simoncelli was getting the HRC bike.  He's on the second bike.  He commented on it in the post race interview after Brno.

Pedrosa has signed to Team Lollipop Guild for next year.

That's a good one!!! [laugh] Thanks for making my morning! [thumbsup] Pedro-bot my ass. What I wouldn't give to see Dovi put him on the trailer every race. It kills me to do it but I guess I have to give the little drone some credit for doing better than I thought he would with that bad leg injury early in the season... and yes, that does kill me. :P

http://www.crash.net/motogp/news/151167/1/lorenzo_stoner_yamaha_and_ducati.html (http://www.crash.net/motogp/news/151167/1/lorenzo_stoner_yamaha_and_ducati.html)

http://www.motogpmatters.com/news/2009/08/18/ducati_s_offer_to_lorenzo_is_it_35_5_mil.html (http://www.motogpmatters.com/news/2009/08/18/ducati_s_offer_to_lorenzo_is_it_35_5_mil.html)

more of the same.. but with more numbers

So...$4M Euros to stay at Yamaha as a #2 rider, with the best bike in the paddock

...or $7M to go to Ducati as the #1 rider (presumably, given the salary), with the most evil bike in the paddock.

What would you guys do??

I don't know...I'd probably jump to Ducati if their offer really is that high. $3M is a lot of $$$. You could always leave after 2 years if you don't get along with the bike...you're still young. Tough choice though.

I like the way Kropotkin ends his piece....

"....one this is for sure, money will not buy you a title" and you know Jorge (Yourghey or Whorehey) will certainly be weighing that whole piece in his bubble....

Show me the $$$

lemme throw some more sugar on this for ya... that article is in euros.

1.00 EUR = 1.41246 USD

so the numbers are $4.2M to $9.9M a year...

And let's not forget the additional $ in added sponsorship deals for him personally if he's the #1 rider in the Ducati garage as opposed to the #2 rider in the Yami garage behind Rossi.

and rossi's 14M euro = $19.8M.  then another ~$15M in bonuses and endorsements.

if stoner is 'only' getting 3.8M euro/$5.4M in salary, wonder what his total bag is.

regardless, we know that jorgey likes to WIN.  wonder if he could pay to rent a GP9 for an afternoon...  ;)

Jorge moving teams may be exactly the motivation Ducati needs to tweak that bike into a winner.  From a marketing perspective, Jorge is an excellent choice.  Tough to leave a known quantity for the unknown though.

or, known to be unrideable 90% of the time

(http://z.hubpages.com/u/688364_f520.jpg)

I'm not sure that motivation is the issue, unless you're saying that Jorge would be the definite #1 at Duc an therefore the bike would be developed completely differently.

the working assumption is that he'd be #1.  he would be in salary, supposedly.  and there's the panic factor going on right now for the guys at philip morris.  they need a #1 that's not on some weird medical issue.

as for development, ehhh.  you hope they would start being a lot more flexible.  i know that's been mentioned, but so far the ducati development paradigm, even for stoner, has been: here's your bike.  good luck.

I'm thinking Stoner's not coming back this year....

I think it'd be really neat at the end of a season, since we all know the bikes from year to year undergo signifigant changes, to see a day after the end of the season where the previous year bikes are pulled out and the riders get to swap and ride the different machines and hear the honest to god reactions of each of the riders of the different machines and not the watered down boilerplate PC/PR stuff they have to normally say...like say for instance at the end of this year, they roll out on the GP8 machines ( so as to elminate some revealing or sharing of the more upgraded potential development they do during the year on that machine)and you get to hear people react to the Ducati or the Yamaha or the Kawasaki or the Honda....I mean, why not?...it would be a chance to hear unrestricted feedback from other unliscenced and uncommitted parties and it'd be a PR fiesta.

there are a few magazines that do just that (ride all the bikes after the last race) and do a comparison.

no way spies is gonna podium before miller.

HUH?

 ;D

All though they do this, the camparison may not be relevant as they aren't pushing the bikes to the level that the GP riders do.

Not to mention that each bike gets tailored to the rider's style, which may not be applicable to another racer.

One man's 1:48 per lap machine is another's 1:48.7 or more

EXACTLY  why I'd like to see it from the GP riders and not from the press guys who are pushing at maybe 80% of the bike's potential....though some of them have extensive riding experience...none of them want to bin a million dollar machine they are being gratuitously handed to ride for publicity reasons only....

i'd have to go back and look at the laptimes, but i'm pretty sure mamola was doing better than 80%.

I was using 80% as a general average overall...some fo the Journo's are quite frankly so nervous about binning the damn things that they turn at 60-70% whereas you have Nick Ienatsch(spelling?) and Mamola and others turning in the more 90+ percentile range

I think it's a good idea because the Journalists don't actually provide a comparison that has relevance to the championship. Seeing Rossi on a GP9 & being able to compare his times to Lorenzo's times on the GP9, seeing Stoner on a Yamaha or the 212 would be really interesting because we have a reference point. I don't actually care if Mamola is withing 2% of average on the bikes, the times aren't relative to the riders we're used to seeing on the bikes.

For example, if Pedrosa got on the M1 & did faster times than on the 212, that would be really interesting, no?

the closest you'll get to that is the riders that are switching teams doing laps on their new bike and comparing them to their previous times for the weekend.

yes, it's interesting.

it'd probably be even more interesting if they allowed all the racers to "free ride" any bike they wanted. but i suppose that's also like wishing every woman on earth was bi, three inputs, and looked like angelina jolie. it's a nice thought, but definitely not rooted in reality.

Yeah, we're just a bunch of douchebags on some random web forum dedicated to a naked bike, I doubt any of what we have to say makes it to the "right" ear irrespective of how much merit is included. It's a cool idea but not going to happen.

Doesn't mean it's not worth chatting about with other bike riding douchebags though. ;)

Well if we're all naked bike loving douchebags, then I choose to have the spring mist scent.

What, you mean Burgess and Puig aren't monitoring this forum for ideas?

*boggle!*

 [laugh]

big

http://www.roadracingworld.com/news/article/?article=30718 (http://www.roadracingworld.com/news/article/?article=30718)

Mamola did a 1:38.7, compared to a 1:32.0 the day before by Stoner. The _slow_ journo's were over 1:50 (including Alan Cathcart who gets to ride _everything).

Given the chatter problems and the differences between Rossi and Edwards a few years back when their laptimes only differed by a few tenths of a second, I personally doubt even Mamola is "feeling" what it feels like to ride one of these bikes "properly".

I still like reading what those "slow" guys write about the bikes...("slow" guys like Wayne Gardener, he rode like a grandmother at "only" 1:42!)

big

To put those laptimes into perspective, the 500cc lap record round my local track (admittedly 12 or 15 years old) is 1:29.something - so a similar-ish length lap. There are _lots_ of non-racer trackday guys on street registered 600s lapping within 20 seconds of that. I've got club racer friends who've lapped within 5 seconds of that time on race preped-by-club-racers-paying-their-own-bills 1000s (Crazy Phil was running 1:34s 7 or 8 years ago on an R1 "with a pipe and a jetkit"...)

At 80% you're not even doing the same thing as the racers (hell, my bet laptime on my 250cc 4 stroke v twin Honda streetbike was within 75% - I can do 2:00 - or at least used to be able to...)

I suspect even at 99% you're dealing with a different set of problems than the guy going 100%. Whatever it is that Casey does different on his bike, it's completely different for everybody else running half a second or so per lap slower - Kallio and Hayden aren't bad riders, but their setup is much closer to each other than either of them are to Casey, and it makes them midfield runners on a bike that the other guy looks like winning championships on...

big

Well, someone just said this forum is full of douchebags...Puig would be right at home ;D

Apparently Lorenzo will have a press announcement at Indy.

http://www.motogpmatters.com/news/2009/08/20/down_the_rabbit_hole_the_next_installmen.html (http://www.motogpmatters.com/news/2009/08/20/down_the_rabbit_hole_the_next_installmen.html)

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/77781 (http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/77781)

now that bautista is actually gonna honor his suzuki promise, hector barbera gets to ride the new aspar ducati

or maybe it's already done

http://www.motogpmatters.com/news/2009/08/20/it_s_done_lorenzo_signs_for_ducati_proba.html (http://www.motogpmatters.com/news/2009/08/20/it_s_done_lorenzo_signs_for_ducati_proba.html)

Wow, I'm gonna have to learn to root for Lorenzo?  I guess I can figure out how to do that.

If so, waddya think . . . Hayden to Fiat?  That makes sense to me.  Or Hayden stays and Stoner is out of a job?  I guess we wont' know the outcome of that one until we know how back Stoner's fatigue/wrist/brain really is.  And I don't know that we'll ever really know.

I think Hayden would be OK with that.

WTF is Ducati gonna do if Lorenzo can't ride it either, and Stoner retires/leaves/gets shown the door?
Pay $20M a year for Rossi?

Build a bike that works?

This was a helpful article.  It's lists 2010 MotoGP grid to date.  Along with short snippet for each team.

http://www.crash.net/motogp/news/151201/1/motogp_2010_-_the_grid_so_far.html (http://www.crash.net/motogp/news/151201/1/motogp_2010_-_the_grid_so_far.html)

i sincerely wonder if (factory) yamaha would want to hire nicky.  he's already being talked about plenty for tech 3

Why wouldn't they?  Of the "other" riders out there --than the top 4--the only guys really worth having are Hayden and Spies, and maybe Simoncelli or Bautista (untested in MotoGP, so we don't know).   He's the only one allowed on a factory team.

P.S.  I'm not counting Dovi because he's basically already taken. 

Also remember that Nicky does help with the US marketing for the manufacturers. You still see the Repsol bikes out there and even people with Nicky Repsol posters.

yeah, i know.  i said want rather than willing, best choice for now, etc..  while everyone knows all the factors that went into it that were 'not his fault', he's had 3 lackluster years in a row.  from fiat's bank account's POV, i think he would be a ho-hum choice.  he's got no 800-era zing that warrants being put on The Best Bike.  ex-champion, yeah yeah.  way too long ago.

but, true, they can't give ben that bike yet.  at least not with that paint job.  (nevermind that he's making noises like he's going to stay in wsbk for another year)

and american marketing, yeah, i know.  but they've got ben selling the hell out of a bike that people here can actually purchase.  and the spanish/italian/rest of the world market is much more rabid about racing that we are here -- they all think nicky is meh.

...'course, as a nicky fan and an american racing fan i'd love to see him get on that bike and shock everyone.  it aint gonna happen on the ducati.

my guess is that Lorenzo is looking to get out of Yamaha because they made him the Janitor in the US office job YouTube spoof film.... [cheeky] [laugh] ;D ;)

+1  That was the straw that broke the camel's back.   ;D

On another silly season note.  LCR is contemplating a second bike for next year.  I really hope that happens for another bike to appear on the grid.

http://www.motogp.com/en/news/2009/Cecchinello+hoping+to+secure+De+Puniet+for+2010 (http://www.motogp.com/en/news/2009/Cecchinello+hoping+to+secure+De+Puniet+for+2010)

good but rather lengthy summary of this year's extra-silly season

http://moto-racing.speedtv.com/article/motogp-lorenzo-to-ducati-first-domino-to-fall/ (http://moto-racing.speedtv.com/article/motogp-lorenzo-to-ducati-first-domino-to-fall/)



and apparently it's that a-hole puig that's keeping dani from getting out his pen

http://www.motogpmatters.com/news/2009/08/21/pedrosa_contract_ultimatum_no_puig_no_pe.html (http://www.motogpmatters.com/news/2009/08/21/pedrosa_contract_ultimatum_no_puig_no_pe.html)

This should be good. ;D

Puig has always had a tight hold on Dani's pen.  ;D

yeah, i thought about the many-entendres of that sentence's wording after i posted it...  =)

from the creative use of the word "left" dept:  http://www.crash.net/motogp/news/151273/1/vermeulen_has_left_suzuki.html (http://www.crash.net/motogp/news/151273/1/vermeulen_has_left_suzuki.html)

http://superbikeplanet.com/2009/Aug/090821ride4free.htm (http://superbikeplanet.com/2009/Aug/090821ride4free.htm)

If I were Tony Elias or CV, I might say the same thing.   [laugh]  If the MotoGP grid doesn't grow (unlikely) the WSBK paddock is gonna be strong next year.  Or Moto2 is gonna be REALLY fun to watch. 

as the stoner world turns

http://www.motogpmatters.com/news/2009/08/24/casey_stoner_yamaha_or_retirement.html (http://www.motogpmatters.com/news/2009/08/24/casey_stoner_yamaha_or_retirement.html)

"This is who I am, a racer, not an actor. I want to come here, do a good job, and then go home. That's all."

seems to be a very common aussie racer point of view... ;)

It would suck if Casey retired.  That said, if he did, I betchya he'd come back after a few years. 

He does have a pretty naive notion that moto racer are just racers rather than a brand/product.  If he thought that he signed up to win races and that is all, he was *really* wrong about his job. 

That article makes Casey sound like a huge whiner.  :-\ He needs to get over the 2007 championship disrespect thing, and prove to everyone he deserved it. He also needs to understand that if you're going to get paid several million Euros to ride a motorcycle, doing a few PR duties isn't that big of a deal.

My only FHE with Casey and PR duties--- 

When we were at Valencia last year, all the Ducati paddock guys were rolling their eyes at him.  It was Thurs before the races, so no one was around the paddock other than the teams.  All the club presidents went to the Ducati paddock to meet Melandri and Casey and get some stuff signed for like 20 or 30 minutes.  Stoner wouldn't come out at all for a while.   So they sent some Ducati guys to talk him into come out.  I've never seen such a dour face from a racer.  He actually looked pissed at us.  A couple of Aussies tried to talk to him and he perked up a bit, but was still not very friendly.  Melandri, on the other hand, was a fun and friendly and kind.  The Ducati folks said that Casey is often like that.  I don't blame him for disliking that stuff (and I don't judge racers about whether they're nice guys in the paddock), but it really is a part of his job.

P.S.  Edit:  Actually, I remember another.  He was at Laguna the year before at the president's dinner.  He seemed fine with people, but still not what I'd call personable.   

That's pretty lame. He needs to realize that without the fans he has no job. I never understand pro athletes that don't appreciate their fans.

Casey...Bonds?  ;D

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/77978 (http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/77978)

Lorenzo signs with Yamaha for one more year.  Now I'm interested in how all the other chips fall.

just read it also here with my coffee...

http://www.superbikeplanet.com/2009/Aug/090825a.htm (http://www.superbikeplanet.com/2009/Aug/090825a.htm)

So, there won't be a musical chairs with other riders right?

mitt

I think there still might be some degree of it...just a question as to what level of it there might be...you still have some people looking for rides for next year and alot of seats that are unsecured as of this point....

Next year will be sillier. Many contracts will be up and maybe Ben will be in the fold. Not to mention any other name that might all of a sudden come out of nowhere.

plus the implementation of the possible Moto1 thingamabob doohickey plan....that'll shake some trees for sure too....

That ruins a lot of the fun of the silly season.   The team that ended up in bad shape in all of this is Ducati. 

I wonder how this affects whether The Ben will come to GP in 2010.  With Lorenzo on a 1 year stint with Yamaha, should The Ben should make the jump now -- Tech III for 2010 and a potential factory seat for 2011?

Ducati is "sure" Stoner will return for Estoril.

http://www.crash.net/motogp/news/151407/1/ducati_sure_stoner_will_return.html (http://www.crash.net/motogp/news/151407/1/ducati_sure_stoner_will_return.html)

still a big open question, yep...

Ducati probably told Casey "....no show, no lira, no ride next year....", and that's when the wife started hitting him over the head with the frying pan and kicking him in the shins....... ;D

Capirex @ Suzuki in 2010

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/78000 (http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/78000)

 [bang]

Call it mole removal...

I hope Vemeulen can get a good ride in WSBK, he was impressive there, never really did consistently well in GP unless it was wet.

Why the head banging?

because neither of those guys should still have a ride... suzuki had the opportunity to put spies (who's entire 4-stroke career had been on the brand) on the gsvr and chose, instead, to re-sign these two clowns for yet another lackluster season...

not only did these two guys produce another season of suck, suzuki pushed a racer that they'd invested in heavily for roughly a decade to another manufacturer.

fail fail fail...

I disagree with you somewhat on this Derb...why the Mole is the suck is in question, but he does for sure...Capi has produced with what he has been given...it is just a matter of the 'Zuke not having the same development leaps and breakthroughs that the Yam and the Duc and as of late the Honda have...yeah, there was improvement in the machine at the end of the '07 season and then this and last year has been much more lackluster, but from the last test for what they were doing in prep for 2010 season with Capi and the times and whatnot he was putting in....I think they have something with the familiarity and all that going in with this combo...while I don't expect to see him win the championship...I would love to see him on a podium or few...the other thing that is greatly weighting in on this from Suzuki's POV probably also is the amount of seat time a machine ( any machine on the grid) takes to acclimate to for a rider with the testing limitations...Kropotkin put it nicely in this piece -> http://www.motogpmatters.com/news/2009/08/25/lorenzo_signs_with_yamaha_so_who_goes_to.html (http://www.motogpmatters.com/news/2009/08/25/lorenzo_signs_with_yamaha_so_who_goes_to.html)

as far as 'Zuke giving up on the Hopster and Spies...well...I am sure they felt bad about making those decisions, but it does no good to dwell in mistakes of the past...

Hopper is donkey balls.

Why are they not making a play for Spies in 2010?   If they weren't gonna get him (and I don't think they were), keeping Capi makes sense.

I suspect Spies will stay in WSBK...especially if he doesn't win the title this year.

I'd have to agree with zooom, I don't think Capirossi is that far behind the front guys that they should get rid of him outright. The idea of having two GP rookies on a bike sorely in need of development isn't a good one in my book. Keeping Capirossi around while Bautista gets up to speed next year is a good plan IMO.

If I were Spies, I'd be hesitant to go back to Suzuki especially if Yamaha were making the right noises. Seems to me that Tech3 should be getting rid of Toseland post haste & finding someone who's more suited to the bike/class.

which goes to the question of what is different about a GP rider from a production bike rider...

GP riders are I guess suposed to and expected to give enormous amounts of feedback about the most enormously minute of details to bring along a machine in its development along with his normal suspension and tire deviational needs of what is going on...whereas the production bike riders may only have to give feedback in regards to suspension and gearing which may say something as to why JT is the suck and other production bike riders have done poorly in GP classes....maybe they don't have that ability to give that weather report on things to get the most out of a machine...


normally...I'd say you are right on the money with that assessment...but I think that his '07 performance on the 'Zuke was his best season yet and they were starting to get something out of the machine in terms of competitiveness with the way he was riding it by season end...

ben has already ridden the gsv-r, successfully.  more successfully than mr. hang out in 7th place at all costs.

sure, capi is good PR and whatnot, but he'll get a podium next year.  maybe.

suzuki had already committed to bautista so there was only 1 seat there (hence that bs PR piece about the mole 'leaving' suzuki... lol)

suzuki massively screwed the pooch last year.. you can see it in denning's face.

I don't think Capirossi is bad either.  Spies might be preferrable, but I don't think Spies will sign with them now.  Capirossi has a lot more GP wins than the other GP guys that are looking for a ride.

c'mon... that's like saying duhamel has more ama superbike wins than the other kids lookin' for a job. what has he done lately?

the choices suzuki made last year with regards to their 2009 lineup made absolutely no sense from a forward-looking, let's-set-ourselves-up-to-win-a-championship-in-the-next-few-years point of vew.

suzuki had ben... they should've dropped one of their riders (my vote: the mole), and given the other seat to ben. they would've had the old fogey to give some development consistency and a young up-n-comer to move forward with in the future.

basically, they should've made the decision they've made this year, last year.

I don't disagree, but hindsight is 20/20.

Suzukis' biggest mistake was not recognizing Spies' talent.

link title to a Soup article earlier this year

"Qatar Quote Machine: Suzuki Vindicated In Not Hiring Spies. Oh, Wait, Did We Say Vindicated or Exposed As Idio ..."

oh, and that HRC decision to put takahashi on the scot honda rather than ben also worked out really well.

Ah, but The Ben isn't Japanese, so he didn't count.   :P

ben may not be but The Ben sure is...   ;D

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x1kweo_the-vapors-turning-japanese_creation (http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x1kweo_the-vapors-turning-japanese_creation)

Hey, you take that back about Duhamel!   [laugh]

Capi won on the 800cc Ducati--that's gotta be worth something?  Ok, so he isn't setting the world on fire, but I think Suzuki is just phoning it in at this point.  Maybe they don't even plan to be around for the long term.

that's exactly the point.  er, problem.

 [evil]  ...and the UJMs are gonna be bought in the tens of thousands all over the world by people who have never heard of any of these aforementioned "GP guys"......Harleys, too [moto]

Grown men arguing about who makes the best baseball bat or golf ball.....  ;D

Don't stop now!  [thumbsup]

err.. what?

I think he is trying to stir the butter with a toothpick!

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/78036 (http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/78036)

[laugh]

i've never seen so much press about a thoroughly mediocre, had his job for too long rider getting sacked.

A slight adjustment.

You could put several riders in that category though, some were lucky enough to have the opportunity to stick around long enough to figure it out.

Herve has a bike for The Ben

http://www.superbikeplanet.com/2009/Aug/090829es.htm (http://www.superbikeplanet.com/2009/Aug/090829es.htm)

don't recall the thread where we were discussing the engine leasing idea/too lazy to find it, but this will eventually be silly-related: yamaha potentially will lease an engine to the nearly-defunct Hayate team, effectively keeping the bike on the grid and finding another home for some ride-less rider for 2010.  especially makes sense here b/c the kawi is the only other inline-4 out there.

http://www.motogpmatters.com/news/2009/08/30/hayate_to_lease_yamaha_engine_for_2010.html (http://www.motogpmatters.com/news/2009/08/30/hayate_to_lease_yamaha_engine_for_2010.html)

I wonder if they'll wait for him to decide?

I would.

yup:

"Ben is very important for Yamaha racing—its present and future. I think that Ben has not yet made his decision. It's either going to be WSBK or MotoGP. Already this means that half of my team is going to be ready to welcome him. So now we wait."

herve is sitting in a pretty good spot. he's basically in the position of waiting for yamaha to decide who they want to put on his bike.

he (and everybody else) knows that, barring some unforeseen brand defection, one of those seats is going to eventually go to spies.

what's herve waiting for? he's simply waiting to find out if it's going to be this year or next year.

and apparently if it's not this year, he can fill the spot with one of several riders that he doesn't even have to pay.

 [laugh]   [thumbsup]

I am going to make a guess and say that Tech 3 is waiting to see if Ducati picks up Hayden for another season. Because I cant figure out where else this offer would come from. Maybe Pramac?

From Superbike Planet:
"Hayden said that he'd prefer to stay with Ducati and feels that he and the team are making headway in the fight to get him up front but that he has other offers to stay in MotoGP for 2010 if they don't pick up his option."

http://www.superbikeplanet.com/2009/Aug/09082969ol.htm (http://www.superbikeplanet.com/2009/Aug/09082969ol.htm)

pramac, tech 3, hayate-yamaha, maybe a team KR ducati...   ;)

we'll know in a few days

I'd be surprised if Ducati doesn't keep Hayden for 2010. He's been making good progress recently, they gave him his own 848 color scheme, and there's no one available that is better.

except dani.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/78238 (http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/78238)



besdies, the 848 is ducati selling street bikes.  the GP ride is marlboro money.

Oh yeah...forgot he hasn't signed.

MotoGP or WSBK...you have to admit it would be weird for Ducati to make a Hayden edition...then sack him at the end of the season. Not saying they wouldn't do it...but it would be kinda weird.

kinda weird, except for the fact that they already sold most (all?) of those special 848s.  i agree it's odd.. unless you're in the marketing or accounting depts at ducati na.

It'd be even weirder to see the robot in red. Wait...make that heartbreaking, not weird.

(http://www.motorbikestoday.com/gallery/images/Ducati-998-Bostrom.jpg)

He's right about their being an upper tier composed of four riders -- Stoner, Rossi, Lorenzo, Pedrosa.  On *relatively* equal machinery (which they seem to have now), any one of them can win.   If I were Ducati/Marlboro, I'd try to sign Pedrosa too, but as a fan, the thought makes me wanna punch myself in the junk.

I assume Honda will  work it out with Puig and all the factory teams will stay together for 2010  (I'm not counting Suzuki as a factory team because . . . well. . . they don't count).

maybe nicky and dani will trade bikes.

Just because Hayden wouldn't be riding a factory Ducati doesn't mean he won't be riding a Ducati. At last count I thought there were 3 other Ducatis in the field.

Don't forget that LCR is contemplating running two bikes.  DePuniet and another rider.  Maybe Hayden has an offer for that seat.

I would rather see the second factory Ducati sit in the garage all season then have Pedrosa ride it.  [puke]

ok, he majorly messed up in estoril '06 and he has no (american) personality, but, seriously, what is so wrong with pedro?  i don't get it.

(http://hotdogandfriends.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/05/douchebag.jpg)

I'm with gm2. My big issue with Pedrosa is actually Puig. It's fun to make fun of Pedro but in reality he's very fast & a very talented rider. I'm fine with him being on a Ducati. I'm also fine with making him the butt of jokes.

yeah, i don't mind making fun of him... :)... but in reality i think he's an incredibly fast, determined little dude.

i'm sure that if i were 5' 90-whatever lbs and i got hurt even a fraction of what he's been through in the last couple years i'd be out permanently

and i've seen him give spanish interviews... certainly his personality is a bit stoic, but he does have one.  not that i really care one way or the other.

He's a great rider.  There's no doubt about that.  I actually think he's better than a lot give him credit for, and on par with Lorenzo, Rossi and Stoner (if anyone can really be on-par with Rossi).  And there's no doubt about his determination.  In fact, he's so determined that he won't even let his championship-contending teammate get in his way.

I dislike him for Estoril.  If he apologized (I'm sure he did, but I don't remember), he didn't do it loudly enough that I remember it.  make the beast with two backs that.  And I'll always hold against Douchey McHalfSize that Puig said it was Nicky's fault.  For example. as much as I wanna vomit down Douchebrizio's throat and kick his mom in her junk, at least he ran over to The Ben and immediatey apologized.  And apologized.  And apologized.  Ben wasn't even his teammate, and Fabrizio is in the championship hunt.  Pedrosa's move on Nicky, in contrast, was TOTALLY inexcusable and without sufficient remorse.  He deserves to be hated for that. 

I also don't like that the make the beast with two backser can't smile.  I don't need racers to be clowns ala Rossi (circa early 2000s) or Haga, but I'd like them to have a shred of personality.  Jeebus, you get to race motorcycles for a living, Dani.  At least grin without it looking like you're having a hot poker shoved up your ass.

As far as on track, I don't really like watching his riding style.  I'm not sure why, but I get bored by him on track.  There's rarely a good dice and he likes to lead from the front.  He's also really controlled, which is amazing technically, but not as fun to watch.  I can't explain it more than that.  Maybe it's my off-track dislike of him carrying over.  On the flip side, there is some interesting stuff.  He takes totally different lines than everyone else (because he weighs little more than a watermelon), and he's absolutely the best as visibly and dynamically picking the bike up to drive out of turns.  I also like it when he put himself into the airfence like a Looney Toons character. 

Did I mention him taking out Nicky and not being able to smile?

I'm a Kimi fan so the no personality thing doesn't phase me in the slightest. One of my favorite moments in the 2007 season was watching the post race interview when Kimi actually smiled, it was awesome!

The incident that most people hate on Pedrosa for is more down to Puig, he's the one who said it was Hayden's fault. Puig is the reason there's any doubt that Pedrosa wouldn't be at HRC next year. To put it bluntly, Puig is a self serving asshole living his failed racing dreams through one of the most talented GP riders. He's latched on to the kid body snatchers style & in reliving his pathetically failed life he's make the beast with two backsing up Pedrosa's chance at glory. He's a make the beast with two backsing world-class, grade-a douchebag for which Pedrosa seems to be blamed more often than not.

I would say as more of an incubus or a succubus (depending on the level of "pregnant dog" you assess to Puig in his general presence) than a body snatching leech or moreso like a tick on a dog.

You know, even going back to Pedro's flop in Estoril.... he 'did' have a mathematical chance at the championship, and Honda had no team orders.  Pedro 'could' have possibly won in 06' if the cards fell right.  Racing is exciting because we have no idea what's going to happen on any given weekend.  Lets say Pedro wins Estoril and Hayden bins it anyway.  Nobody knows.  Hell if Rossi doesn't bin it at Valencia, he probably takes the championship.  Those guys race to win, not to hand over trophies to other riders.  Hell, imo Rossi binned it at Valencia pushing too hard trying to get past a batshit fast Casey Stoner.  Its ironic.  Or what if Elias decides to gift the win to Rossi since he has no chance to win the championship.  The racers typically have no interest in handing anything to anyone.  Team orders are crap for the sport anyway.  Its motorsports.  Let the best man win, and not because his teammate is ordered to hold up other drivers or backoff.

I am by no means sticking up for Pedro, but there is more than one viewpoint to what happened during Estoril in 06'.  Pedro didn't mean to take out Hayden, it just happens.  I'm sure Fabrizio didn't want to take out Ben and would have liked gaining on Haga himself, but well, you know... it um, happens. 

Nicky Hayden: Yeah, well this son of a pregnant dog just slammed into me.
Albert Puig: No, no, he didn't slam you, he didn't bump you, he didn't nudge you... he *rubbed* you. And rubbin, son, is racin'

according to nicky he did apologize sufficiently.  but i agree, on-track and on-camera would have been a LOT better.  he also helped nicky at valencia (team orders or not, i'm sure he could have gotten away with not doing that), so that was cool.  i mean, too little, too late.. but still cool. 

i guess i just don't stay that mad for 3 years.  [roll] ;D

that being said, spidey, your reasons are both funny and reasonable.  [laugh]

So, even assuming Stoner comes back to compete for the full slate in 2010, Ducati cannot put all of their eggs in his basket.  I like Stoner and and I am still rooting for him, but there is clearly a crack in his armor.  That doesn't mean he can't or won't win another championship, but it does mean he is a riskier proposition.  In the cold hard world of competition, that is untenable.  Therefore, Ducati needs a true contender on its second bike.  If Pedrosa re-signs with Repsol Honda who does that leave?  While Nicky is looking better, I think his days of being a true contender are over. The only problem with scrathcing him off the list is that I'm not sure there are any other options.  DeAngelis has looked good on satellite rides, but is overall unproven.   Hayden vs. DeAngelis is the basic "known commodity" vs. "upside" scenario.  While DeAngelis is not that young, this is only his second season in MotoGP and he does seem to be improving.  There is the (admittredly) slim hope that he has the untapped potential to be a race winner andnot just grid filler.  The question for Ducati is do you go for the little upside that DeAngelis offers or do you keep Nicky and his US fan base around?  These are not two great choices, but they seem to be Ducati's two best.  Hopefully Stoner comes back strong and finishes the season with a couple of wins and locks in on next year and makes this entire conversation moot.

the other major factor you're leaving out is that, saving maaaybe nicky (we hope... the whole dirt track background thing is why everyone thought him getting the ride was a good idea in the first place), no one besides casey can ride The Career Killer.  riders are actively saying No to it.

Fine... I'll ride the damn thing. I can't do much worse than Marco did.

true.  even if you're 5 minutes back, last is still last.    =)

Perhaps, but there simply aren't many other rides left out there.  My premise was that Pedrosa signs with Repsol.  That means two of the three teams that have won races this season are full.   The second tier Honda team is full (Melandri and Simoncelli).  Beyond those three teams, I think it's hard to argue that anyone else offers a better chance at winning than Ducati.  The third tier Honda teams (Scot, LCR) don't. Suzuki doesn't and they're full anyways.  I don't think Hayate is going to be around for 2010.  That leaves the two open slots on Tech 3 as the only slots that are arguably better than the Ducati factory team.  So, while the Ducati may strike fear into the hearts of many racers, it still is a rare commodity: a seat on a full factory MotoGP team.  To a talented rider who thinks he's a contender, that has to be appealing.  A rider like that is not going to slink off to WSBK.  The GP riders who have done that, notably Biaggi and Checa, were on the downward ends of their careers.  I don't think a young rider with promise and an ego to match would  turn down the chance for a full factory ride to ride WSBK. 

Hell yeah, team Marco!

you haven't heard the rumors that they may lease yamaha motors?


kallio did just that a few weeks ago AND he's already on the duc.

He lacks certain human qualities. Anyone making millions a year riding motos in GP should be so happy they vibrate.

It's tough to get excited about a robot...regardless of the tricks it can do...

and the guy running the joystick is enough to make most people puke.

Otherwise Dani is cool. ;)

One guys perspective.

Operative words: "rumors" and "may"  If they do, they won't be near factory bikes like Tech 3 or Gresini.  They would be second rate bikes incapable of running up front like Scot and LCR.

Kallio is on a SATELLITE Duc.  That's a big difference no matter what the folks at Corse say.  Even though his results on the full factory bike haven;t been much better, he'd take the ride on the full factory if it was offered.  Besides, since we're dealing with rumors, supposedly Kallio is in the the top 3 to land at Tech 3.  He'll only end up in WSBK if the Tech 3 spot falls through AND Ducati and Pramac seriously low-ball him.

hey hey hey...the Dornasaki fielded by Hayate had nothing...no development and a bunch of crap leftover to deal with from the year previous and no promise of anything for the future and then you add in 1 riders determination and you get results...Marco has not been running last like the Scot bike has consistantly been doing...and LCR...DePuniet has been doing a damn good job getting that bike through the field and dicing with the Tech3 and Gresini bikes...so the bottom line when it comes to a non factory bike is how motivated and ready to push the envelope the rider is...or so it seems...or maybe they have better set-up technicians when it comes to making a bike ready to rock...so I wouldn't throw the baby out with the bathwater when talking about Hayate if they end up with Yamaha motors....

The third tier bikes occasionally dice with the second tier bikes, but they don't dice with the full factory bikes and they don't end up on the podium (generally).  With a determined rider, great set-up and perhaps a bit of luck, bikes sometimes fight one level above their factory weight class, but they almost never fight two classes above.  DePuniet and Melandri have had some nice races this year, I give you that.  Nonetheless, I am sure either of them would tell you that the chances of them taking a podium are slim and none. 

Oh common, the second and third tier bikes dice with the factory zukes and ducati all the time.  What are you talking about?   ;D

Didn't Kallio say that the bikes weren't that different? It's kind of moot because no one but Stoner has really bonded with the bike anyway.

I think that it's in Ducatis interest to sign Pedrosa out from under HRC unless the believe that one of the up-and-comers represent a better opportunity. That's a bit risky compared to the robot & organ grinder (Pedro & Puig).

http://www.racer.com/Ducati-hasnt-given-up-hope-on-Pedrosa/article/147824/ (http://www.racer.com/Ducati-hasnt-given-up-hope-on-Pedrosa/article/147824/)

Well, you've got a bit of a point there, but hopefully with Nicky's new found form and the return of Stoner the days of a factory Duc near the back of the pack are over.  If I was Ducati, I would use Nicky as "Exhibit A".  His recent results aren't much worse than his last year on the Repsol Honda.  In his last 5 races he's had a 3rd, 5th, 6th and 8th.   

As for Kallio, what do you expect him to say when he's not running well, "The bike is faster but I am still not doing well"?  He looked good early in the season, but has fallen off lately.  My guess is his drop and Nicky's rise are the difference between being on the factory team and a satellite.  It's not just the bike you start with, it's how it's developed through the season and set up every week.  No doubt Corse has more development/set-up talent and resources compared to Pramac.

Pedrosa considering Ducati move: http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/78250 (http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/78250)

would that be because maybe a bike with even more Carbon Fiber might be easier for him to lift?  http://www.superbikeplanet.com/image/2009/motogp/indy/3/_D7P8250.htm (http://www.superbikeplanet.com/image/2009/motogp/indy/3/_D7P8250.htm)

HAHAHAHAHAHAAHHAAHAHAA

those are some pretty lucid reasons for considering the switch.  and so true: since the start of the 800 era honda has started every season behind the 8 ball.

I read Pedrosa's comments as using Ducati as a bargaining chip to get what he wants from Honda.  If they don't land Pedrosa, Ducati HAS to keep Hayden and he HAS to do well (or at least continue as he has been).  Otherwise, they'll never get anyone else to ride that bike.  Both Pedrosa and Lorenzo are scared--understandably--of the f'n thing.

Ducati retains Hayden for 2010: http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/78285 (http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/78285)

 [clap]    He deserves 1 more year after the learning curve then bad luck in early 2009.


mitt

Awesome!!  [thumbsup]

+1.  I'll keep my fingers crossed that he can get it together and keep it together.  I don't expect him to challenge the top 4, but I expect that he should be able to consistently give Dovi and everyone else a run for their money.

I predict Nicky Hayden as World Champ in 2010.
You heard it here first.

Well, if aliens abduct Rossi, Lorenzo, Stoner, and Pedrosa, he'll have a shot.

which of the 2 events are you more willing to put money on?

Herve Poncharal: Toseland is 50-50 For 2010

http://superbikeplanet.com/2009/Sep/090903c.htm (http://superbikeplanet.com/2009/Sep/090903c.htm)

Poncharal gave his analysis of the situation:

" You know, James is... he's a really nice guy."

eeenteresting

http://www.motogpmatters.com/news/2009/09/03/stiggy_racing_to_run_yamahas_in_wsbk_in_.html (http://www.motogpmatters.com/news/2009/09/03/stiggy_racing_to_run_yamahas_in_wsbk_in_.html)

I wish I was that confident.  :P

I'm sure he is a nice guy... but I really think with the Yamaha's being as good as they are, they should go with someone else.
It's really the last bit of the silly season in Motogp that I actually care about.
I wonder how long Spies will take to decide and if that's what they're waiting on.

from what i've heard, spies doesn't really want to go to gp... yet.

http://www.motogpmatters.com/news/2009/09/04/spies_in_wsbk_in_2010_motogp_in_2011_wit.html (http://www.motogpmatters.com/news/2009/09/04/spies_in_wsbk_in_2010_motogp_in_2011_wit.html)

sucks.  >:(

Well that answers my question. Well at least we'll have an American rider to cheer for in WSBK next year.

wsbk as a series is exploding.  gp is... tenuous.  if i were he i might really want to see how this engine thing plays out.

more official version:  http://www.superbikeplanet.com/2009/Sep/090904y.htm (http://www.superbikeplanet.com/2009/Sep/090904y.htm)

Yeah, yeah, yeah.  But I still wanted to see him in GP.

Pedrosa and Dovi are officially confirmed for Repsol for next year (with Puig). However, Dani says he wanted a Yami ride because the Honda is teh suck. 

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/78403 (http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/78403)

Oh boy...that leaves Ducati with no options to replace Casey. Maybe they can hire De Puniet to crash into Rossi and Lorenzo every race? Oh wait...he'd have to be running at the front to do that.

interesting silly comment during misano was that apparently rossi is pissed at yamaha for allowing jorgey to sign only a 1-year contract.

For next year?  Everything from Ducati and Casey says that he's coming back.  Otherwise, they're stuck with Hayden and someone else -- Kallio, Barbera, Esparga (who set the fifth fastest lap at Misano?!?), De Angelis. Who knows.  I think 2010 silly season is might see a lot of movement. 2009 has been good for rumors, not so good for actual movement of teams/riders.

Apparently, the talk in the paddock was that De Angelis was gonna get a satellite Duc for next year.  That is, until he took out Hayden.  Oops, that move might end up being a MotoGP career killer.

It wasn't for the midget :)

I liked how the commentators for the Nurburgring WSBK round were alluding that Johnny Rea might be moving about to possibly elsewhere like GP or something...

i'd bet more likely a factory sbk ride.  or maybe moto2.

Or if Dorna REALLY needs a Brit in GP to replace Toseland and not lose their Brit audience . . .

Not likely, but just sayin . . .

I saw some article about it, and apparently, he's really pissed.  He kinda has a point.  He says that he's been developing hte bike and now its being given to his top competitor, who doesn't have to do any development.  Rossi's point is that there is a reason that a team should only have one #1 rider -- he can develop the bike w/o fear that his teammate will leech onto his development work and then beat him.  So, anyone gonna take this opportunity to call Rossi a whiner?  You know you would if Casey had said it. 

There's more talk against about Rossi to Ducati in 2011.  Again, it's just the rumormill, but the 2010 Silly Season is shaping up to be a good one.   [thumbsup]  Contracts for Rossi, Lorenzo, Stoner and Hayden will all be ending.  I dunno if Tiny McDickhead has an 'out' in his new contract after one year.  I know that Honda has the option to pick it up, but dunno if that works both ways.

I think Rossi needs to kick Stoner off the Duc and develop that bike...or better yet...take Haga's ride in WSBK!

funny you say that, re spies talking about if rossi were to come to wsbk in part 4 of that interview.

sure would be interesting to see what jerry burgess would do with the desmo... probably it would become The Best Bike On The Grid, sought after by everyone, yadda yadda.  what a drama that would be.

Dorna needs to expand it's audience badly. Frankly the US market, although potentially huge is just not that interested. The Brit market on the other-hand is local, well-informed and ready made. If I were Dorna, I'd be thinking very, very hard bout how to keep a limey in MotoGP even at the possible expense of a Yank rider.

As referenced to JT's comments at Indy, he has a point. He's only been in GP's for 18 months, arguably he's only been on competitive equipment for 10 of those months. With respect to guys who have been their for years and are mediocre, mid-pack finishers, damned right he has a point!

Dorna needs a UK rider, if not JT, then somebody. All you Spies worshippers should watch what you wish for as it's just as likely that Spies will go to GP's and languish mid pack like JT.

...wanna bet?   ;D


and i hope that jt can get it together and stick around.  i know the sbk->gp transition can be rough but i'm still hoping he finds a way to display some of that 2007 brilliance on the gp bike.  he did start with it.

JT has been on a GP bike for 18 months.  His best finish was ?

Spies has raced a GP bike three times, and only once in the dry.  His best finish was?

We might need to move this conversation to the other thread (http://ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=24757.0)...



 ;D


mitt

...didn't tufty make a similar prediction about spies in wsbk?  yes, i believe he did.   [cheeky]

I really don't get it.  I used to root for JT.  Even in 2008, he had some promising rides.  And that was on top of dealing with tires, a new bike and a buncha new tracks.  So you'd expect this year to be a lot better.  But he's going backward.  And the bike is well-sorted, though not up to FIAT-spec.  Just look at CE.  [MISANO SPOILER] He was leading a factory Honda in the standings until that "fruity rainbow helmet" guy took him and Hayden out. 

He does have a point about the other mid-pack Europeans, but all the more reason to ditch those guys too.  I hate that less-deserving folks that are backed by more sponsorship $ get rides.  I know racing is a business and that's how it works, but it still kinda irks me. 

well, Gabor was in 9th there the other day.. for a second.

Toseland is going the same way as the rest of the ex-WSBK transplants who didn't get it. The ones who did get it had the luxury of time which he doesn't. Get one of the English guys out of the 250s & stick him on a satellite bike and you're good. Take Toseland back to WSBK on the R1 and put Spies on the Tech3 and be done with it. The whole episode with the switching of engineers really soured me to Toseland (not that I was a fan to start with). "It's not the bike" still rings in my head when I think about it.

Re. Rossi & Lorenzo, you can expect Rossi to start playing some really nasty mind games with Lorenzo if Lorenzo starts winning consistently. That's Rossi's MO.

You would think that, but this is the first case where I believe Rossi's mind games will fall on deaf ears.  Lorenzo seems just as good with the mind games as Rossi... "we're just fighting for second place" blah blah blah.  Lorenzo rides as hard, celebrates as hard, and takes it to the ragged edge.  I hope Rossi stays around 2-3 more years so we can watch these guys dog it out over the championship.  I'd imagine Lorenzo will walk away with a title while Rossi is still riding.  I think Jorge will end up being the reason Rossi stays with bikes as well.  Rossi loves motivation and a challenge, and he's finally got himself a "clone" to compete against.  DNF's or a blown engine will seperate the two, but they are incredibly close in the skill department.  Jorge is maturing fast.  He's another season away from understanding the tactics of winning the close ones I think.  Its not for lack of ability.

I'm not saying Rossi will win, I'm saying that he'll start his usual tactics if Lorenzo keeps winning. I think Lorenzo has the potential to push Rossi but Rossi also has more leverage being the #1 at Yamaha.

i think he's learning fast but imo he's nowhere near that

Rossi on the Duc has been tossed around for a while, although I was under the impression it didn't happen last time (Casey got the ride) cause Burgess-Rossi could not work with Ducati.

I'm not convinced Rossi's "really p*ssed" about Lorenzo.  It's business and he knows it.  He knew two years ago that whatever he, Burgess, and the engineers came up with would go to his "teammate" and others riding the bike in the future.  Probably just more Rossi psychology....

http://www.motogpmatters.com/news/2009/09/09/edwards_back_with_tech_3_for_2010_seat_h.html (http://www.motogpmatters.com/news/2009/09/09/edwards_back_with_tech_3_for_2010_seat_h.html)

more speculation in regards to Tech3 and Spies....

Wouldn't that be a fine twist.

i missed the "foresees" first time around.  interesting.

These renewed rumors re Spies in 2010 make me happy again.   :D

because it puts Ben's schlong back in your mouth?  ;)  J/K

What makes you think I ever took it out?   [cheeky]  BTW, be careful with all the talk about Ben's junk.  You'll make gm2 jealous.

HEY...you can feel free to dispell the myth about him having enough junk for the both of you.... :P

I'd agree with that...

I also think that while Yorgie may be as talented a rider as Rossi...

he's nowhere near the racer Rossi is....yet.

I think he's as good against the rest of the current field or good enough to beat them, just not rossi.....yet

http://www.crash.net/motogp/interview/152107/1/exclusive_herve_poncharal_tech_3_motogp_-_qa.html (http://www.crash.net/motogp/interview/152107/1/exclusive_herve_poncharal_tech_3_motogp_-_qa.html)

Crash.net:
Is there any chance of Ben Spies being on the bike next year?

Herve Poncharal:
That is a question I absolutely cannot answer! I would like to, but I have got no relationship with Ben. Ben has signed a contract with Yamaha Japan for the next two seasons. This we know for sure and on the release we saw 2010 Superbike and 2011 MotoGP. I guess there is a small theoretical possibility he could be here if the second seat is still open, but that would be a decision for Yamaha and Ben together. Not me.

Herve is starting to sound like Yamaha's butt-boy -- "whatever Yamaha tells me is going to happen with my team, that's what I do."   It's looking more and more like Ben's deal is not simply WSBK 2010 and MotoGP 2011.  I'd given up on the earlier speculation of a 2010 jump to MotoGP if he wins the WSBK title, but that's starting to sound feasible again.

If he goes to GP, who gets the Yammie WSBK rides of Spies and Sykes?  Rea and Camier?  Rea either needs a factory WSBK ride or a Moto2 ride. 

P.S.  I still like Haslam's fiance's boobies and want him to get back to his beginning-of-the-season form so that I can see her on TV more. 

Arent the hanspree hondas factory?

Kinda.  I don't think they're factory-factory, whatever that means.  Derbipedia will know the specifics. 

AFAIK, other than Ducati, there are no Factory teams in WSBK. Factory teams are owned, and operated by the factory. In the case of some of the teams, they have substantial factory support in terms of cash & development but aren't run by the factory. Ten Kate is a good example, they're heavily factory supported but the owners of the team, the people who run it every day aren't employees of Honda.

actually the ten kate bikes are basically bikes off the showroom floor, built up by ten kate.  they of course have a relationship with honda but much less so than, say, yamaha.

they've been saying/marveling for years with all the ten kate winning going on how, theoretically, anyone could go out and build their bike.


the yamaha team is a factory team, run out of milan.  but the bike itself is basically all milan, minus the engine.  so i don't know what to call that one.  i guess that means yamaha pays the bills and lets them mostly do what they want.

other examples...

The Alstare Suzuki's of Francis Batta..
the HM Plant Honda's...
Airwaves Yamaha...
Corona Honda...
and the list goes on....

Hopper's out for the rest of '09 with head trauma (which we all knew he had after listening to him butcher his native tongue for the last twenty sumptin' years).  If he's lucky, he'll be on a Buell in 2010.  

http://www.crash.net/world+superbikes/news/152197/1/hopkins_suffers_head_trauma_out_for_season.html (http://www.crash.net/world+superbikes/news/152197/1/hopkins_suffers_head_trauma_out_for_season.html)

On a Buell? Haven't heard that one. Is the AMA/DMG going to a single make series or something? ;)

first of no doubt dozens of articles about Silly Season 2011, aka What Will Rossi Do?

http://superbikeplanet.com/2009/Sep/090914rossi.htm (http://superbikeplanet.com/2009/Sep/090914rossi.htm)

Dang, that kid has had a serious run of bad luck.  I'm not a Hopper fan but he seems to be in a serious downward career spiral. I feel bad for the guy. 

He might be working as an instructor at a local track day pretty soon if this keeps up!!

No but Buell 1125's will be eligible for the new AMA Pro 450 class.

 [laugh]   [laugh]

[laugh] [laugh]

It'll be amusing watching the Ford Taurus "pace car" take those jumps though.

I love how Rossi (mis)pronounces Lorenzo's name.  He's been team-mates with the guys for almost two seasons and he still doesn't pronounce his name right?  That's a masterful if not so subtle dig.

or it's just an italian accent.

Or he is purposefully calling him "your gay".

i'm sure if rossi was going to play on words, he'd do it in italian.

fwiw, the least you could do is spell "you're" correctly.  ;D

you mean like the WLF on the zipper flap retainer bit on his leathers?

 i was so gonna say that.. but just left it alone  ;)

One of my pet peeves for spelling & grammar as well.

DoEs it GeT tO yOu mOre ThaN pEopLe ThAt usE CapS iN tHe wRonG pLacEs?

I could care less about most grammar/spelling stuff (often trying to sound less educated than I am when online), but the you're/your distinction drives me f'n crazy.  Absolutely nuts.

To keep it on topic (kinda), The Ben needs to get him sum lurnin' on the difference between well and good.  If he goes to GP in 2010, I'm not going to be able to stand his constant comments like "we did good" or "the bike was going good."  Unless he crosses the line to win the race while feeding some poor Congolese kid, he did well, not good.

Edit: Did I really use the phrase "could care less?"  Couldn't.  Couldn't care less.

[laugh] 

that one always makes me wince, too.  if you're gonna talk about yourself in the third person, you may as well do it... well.

there/their/they're is another.


 -- clearly there is not enough Silly news this week.

...or loose/lose.

You guys are all assuming I meant Rossi was telling Lorenzo "you are gay", when what I really meant it that Rossi was implying that Jorge belongs to someone other than himself. "Your gay", as in, this gay guy over here belongs to you.  [cheeky]

weak save.... [evil] [laugh] [laugh] [laugh] [laugh]

sad, ironic: http://www.motomatters.com/news/2009/09/15/yamaha_withdraw_from_world_supersport_fr.html (http://www.motomatters.com/news/2009/09/15/yamaha_withdraw_from_world_supersport_fr.html)




oh, and chaz is taking nanelli's WSS Triumph for the last three events of '09.  no word on what that means for 2010.

They'll win AMA, GP, and WSBK next year..why bother  :P

At least they are still providing bikes.

Any noise about Yamaha in Moto2?

Yamaha running a bike with a Honda motor in it? I think the only noise there is "go and get make the beast with two backsed!" in Japanese...

big

Maybe he was thinking the Tech3 team's entry?

Otherwise, +1 to what Iain said, Y and H aren't very chummy.

Where is Crutchlow from WSS going?  He has embarrassed people this year.  He is a very ballsy rider.....I would like to see him on satellite Ducati  8)

yeah, let's kill another promising career!

who wants to bet he's already been offered tom sykes' bike.

 [laugh]

Rossi's English is quite good and there's a big difference between an accent and being totally off.  I know that the h sound is pretty much awol in Italian, but I don't believe for a minute that Rossi doesn't know how or can't pronounce Lorenzo's first name.  When you work with someone for two years, even if there is a wall between you, you learn someone's name.  If not, you're an idiot.  Rossi is 100% not an idiot.  The way he says "Jorge" is at best willful neglect and more likely intentional.   When Rossi is speaking to or about anyone he sees as a true rival or threat,  I am convinced that 99% of what he says is measured and calculated.   

rossi's english is quite good so he should better be able to pronounce a spanish name? ok.

Rossi has shown that if he puts in the effort he can learn and speak clearly in a non-native language.  I would think that it doesn't take a whole lot of brain power to connect the dots and say "Hmmm, if he can learn to speak a WHOLE language proficiently I bet he could learn how to say ONE word correctlt or at least close in a third language".  Maybe that's a logical leap that's hard for some, but it seems pretty simple to me.  I don't think I am treading upon new linguistic ground when I say the ability to learn and speak a second language well generally indicates an ability to learn a third and beyond.  Rossi's Italian accent doesn't prevent him from speaking English clearly and it doesn't prevent him from pronouncing Lorenzo's name properly.  The "h" sound that is the seeming problem in "Jorge" also exists in English and doesn't trip Rossi up anywhere near as much.  He used to say the "h" "Yamaha" (which OMG is a 4th language so I hope that's not too much of a stretch for some) a bit funny, but has gotten that down much better and now he says Yamaha pretty clearly.  I wonder why that is?  Maybe because he respects his employer?  Hmmm, maybe if we start connecting dots again we can infer something from this....

Lighten up, Francis.

 [laugh] [laugh] [laugh]

I think Rossis screwing with George too. ;D

This thread is very quickly becoming the Official R&T Say Anything About Racing thread.

BTW, anyone else see the rumor that Canepa is out at Pramac and the pre-teen with the funny name and the 5th fastest lap is taking his place at Estoril?  (did I derby?)

yep, saw that a couple times.. don't think it's been talked about here.

not so surprising.... niccolo has been sweeping up the rear all year and espaaraaararrraggo got, what, 5th fastest time @ indy or sumthin?

Soup is reporting De Angelis may be headed to WSBK.  I was hoping Ducati could snooker him into riding one of the Pramac bikes.

Or if you are Rossi, Esparharo.

That kid is seriously doing great and I think he would be a good replacement for Canepa.

sure.  but he says that intentionally.

 [bang] [bang]
You try to educate people but they just don't learn.... ;)

silly-related, interesting, and long overdue.  also interesting for the "4 races" tech 3 factoid.

http://www.motomatters.com/news/2009/09/16/honda_to_offer_more_factory_spec_satelli.html (http://www.motomatters.com/news/2009/09/16/honda_to_offer_more_factory_spec_satelli.html)



and more who-gets-what-yammie talk

http://www.motomatters.com/news/2009/09/16/yamaha_s_world_superbike_team_de_angelis.html (http://www.motomatters.com/news/2009/09/16/yamaha_s_world_superbike_team_de_angelis.html)

Re Yammies . . . Crutchlow to moto2.  de angelis should stay in motogp, but he torpedoed his chances of that happening when he torpedoed hayden and edwards.  Camier to Yami WSBK in place of Sykes.  The Ben to Tech 3.  Toseland to Ben's WSBK ride.

In other news, http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/78664 (http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/78664)

The interesting part is less the lie from Honda that they won't build the bike for Pedrosa.  It's how they dealt with the Puig situation.   

Crutchlow for sure gets a wsbk option if he wins wss.. i had forgotten about that contract clause

if?  ;D

 [laugh]

Spies to Tech 3 with Edwards and Crutchlow to WSBK?

http://www.visordown.com/motorcycle-racing-news-moto-gp/scoop-spies-to-tech-3-yamaha-motogp-in-2010/8151.html (http://www.visordown.com/motorcycle-racing-news-moto-gp/scoop-spies-to-tech-3-yamaha-motogp-in-2010/8151.html)

I think they should put Spies in GP even if he doesn't win the championship (which is looking unlikely at this stage). Crutchlow to WSBK in Spies' seat also makes sense. They don't have strong riders in either of the other seats on either team so ditch them & move on.

...This frees up his seat with the Belgarda Yamaha WSBK team...

sure, that almost says Sterilgarda.  or is that a parent co or something?


btw, motomatters and crash are both echoing the Team Texas speculation.  however both are mainly just quoting visordown & MCN.

yeah, i know.  i just like eugene.  ;)

make the beast with two backs YEAH!!!

...time to start the wagering...  [cheeky]

Ooooo, good call.   [thumbsup] 

...still not exactly confirmed.  but i'm going to keep tourette-posting about it until it is..   

http://www.superbikeplanet.com/2009/Sep/090917a.htm (http://www.superbikeplanet.com/2009/Sep/090917a.htm)

all I can say is I want to party at the hoe-down in the Team Texas paddock garage!

That is my hope, that we can see Ben against the current great riders on their current great machines, and not have a situation where he comes into gp, just as Rossi or Jorge is going to manufacture XYZ on a non-championship proven bike.

mitt

which is why 2011 will be so interesting... ben on a factory yamaha, one of those two guys on something else.  or not around anymore. 

man i hope the latter doesn't happen.

I knew it! The Yamaha contract announcement with one more year in WSBK and a first year in MotoGP seemed fishy.

(MCN is never wrong)

http://www.motorcyclenews.com/MCN/sport/sportresults/MotoGP/2009/September/sep1709-toseland-loses-motogp-ride/ (http://www.motorcyclenews.com/MCN/sport/sportresults/MotoGP/2009/September/sep1709-toseland-loses-motogp-ride/)

they can never be wrong when they report that something is so and something is reportedly so, in the same breath.


and gotta love this one: "Spies’ decision to move to MotoGP will leave British fans without a home rider to support in 2010."

they're actually blaming ben for taking away their british GP representative.  l-o-make the beast with two backsing-l.

King James relegated to being a lowly pauper again...booo-fuuckin-hoo...

i'm bummed for him really.  but if he goes back to WSB and starts riding like he did in 2007, i'm happy for him.  dude was takin' names.

Then what?

A Ducati ride in 2012. [evil]

been there, done that....

maybe he can spearhead the development of the KTM RC8 990 into the series?!?!?!

and he already has 2 wsbk titles.

oh, DUH: 450 singles series.

not in gp. ;)

A bottle of Makers Mark (or equivalent for non Burbon drinkers) says he finishes the championship no better than 5th (or 4th if Stoner doesn't show back up). First response gets the bet.

He's _clearly_ good, but so are Hayden and Dovi and Melandri... I'm not convinced he's Rossi and Lorenzo and Stoner and Pedrosa good. Those 4 are most of a second a lap faster than everybody else, I seriously doubt Spies will match their pace, at least not quickly enough in his first year to be a championship contender.

big

I won't take that bet.  I luv me some Ben Spies, but I agree completely.  I don't think he's of the same caliber as the Fantastic Four.  Course, that won't stop me from being a big ole fanboy if he ends up making it the Fantastic Five.  Gawd, he's made WSBK interesting this year.

You picked the right three as next in line-- Hayden, Dovi, Melandri.  I'd put Capi in there if he weren't 800 years old and riding a Ninja 250.  We'll see where Bautista and Barbera fall in terms of talent.  I just don't know what to expect from them.  

let's put this in perspective for a moment... teamed with edwards, you don't think he'll match or beat his teammate?

regarding edwards, if you throw out his season on the cube*, and include his current 6th in this year's championship, he's got a career average championship finishing position of 6.33.

*and who wouldn't want to, including edwards and haga...  ;D

I'll take that action.  ;)

I think he's good enough and the Yammie will be good enough to push the little robot down in the pecking order.
Ben and Dovi are gonna make life difficult for Pedrosa.
IMO, Pedrosa will ride well, but throw it into the litterbox hard enough that he'll get hurt.

Done!

big

I'm still confident that even if he _is_ that good, he'll take long enough to get up to speed on a MotoGP bike to not be a serious contender in the first year. I still think the current "top four" are as good as unbeatable over a season even compared to the rest of the worlds best motorcycle road racers. Barring injury, I'll be enjoying your burbon sometime around now next year :-)

big

I suspect Ben's 'Satellite' bike will orbit closer to 'Factory' than this years' bikes.  :)

Yamaha is gathering a pretty good steamroller for '10.
I foresee them sweeping a couple podiums.

Depends whether they let De Angelis stay in GP  [laugh]

couple things have to happen.. first and foremost, an actual confirmation that he's going to tech 3.  with edwards being moved to herve's payroll and every site out there saying 'spies to tech 3?'... just need he or yamaha to confirm it.

then there's confirmation that he's not getting a 4-races-behind M1.  if he hopes to battle the fantastic four yamaha has to give him a factory bike.  and not an hrc-elias style factory, but actually factory, all year.  and not any more engine-allowance-detuned than the fiats.

then we need confirmation that House is coming with him.  gotta be, but hasn't been mentioned.

IF all that happens i'd put 50 RRWAF bucks on ben finishing his first year in GP no worse than third.



wildcard issue: whether or not HRC delivers a bike that works from the beginning of the year

good news issue: unlike pirellis, he's already tested and raced on bridgestones.  [thumbsup]

I doubt he's going to finish anywhere near that high. CE2 is the guy he has to beat & if everything goes well I can see Spies getting similar and potentially slightly better results than CE2.

In the races that Spies did on the GP bike in 2008 his results were really good:
Date    Grand Prix    Pos.    
14 Sep. '08   Indianapolis Grand Prix (MotoGP)   6   
20 Jul. '08   American Grand Prix (MotoGP)   8   
22 Jun. '08   British Grand Prix (MotoGP)   14

He beat his teammate at Indy which was a track that many people didn't have a lot of experience on (if any) and IIRC Spies had tested on because he wasn't a rider at the time. That would suggest that his results *on a Suzuki* would be more around 8th. He seems to learn tracks pretty quickly (the animal thing works!) but that doesn't put him contending for the championship IMO. Honestly, that puts Spies at about the same level as a good 250 rider coming into the sport. I think Spies' talent gives him the opportunity to skip the teething period suffered by so many SBK riders which would be great but it's not going to be until his second year (if at all) that he'll be contending for the Championship IMO.

i'm sorry, was that test in a hurricane?  ;D

I am a big Bautista fan but I am afraid he will be lackluster in MotoGP. He's a slow starter and usually has to pass quite a few people to get up near the front in a typical race. This might be possible in 250 but it will be much harder in MotoGP.

...so is that a wager or just chatter?   [cheeky]

That's what's known as non-committal  opinion vomit...  [laugh]

Not much of a betting man but if you have paypal, I'll put $5 where my mouth (typing) is.

Mary Spies 'clarifies' Ben's contract:
http://roadracingworld.com/news/article/?article=38146 (http://roadracingworld.com/news/article/?article=38146)

"according to Spies’ mother Mary Spies, who serves as his personal manager but not his business manager"

She's not his business manager, so really, how much does she actually know. Let the speculation continue.

um, maybe being his mother her exact title is irrelevant.  she probably knows what's going on.


although, the rrw article really says nothing.

[laugh] [laugh]
I think The Ben would place 5th in GP. I am basing that on Nothing.

I think Ben might beat both Edwards and Yorgie...given equal equipment.

He's more talented than Colin, and a more mature racer than Lorenzo IMO.

He's really impressed me this year.

But I'm not betting on it....yet.

Edwards sure...I doubt he'd beat Lorenzo. At least not yet.

y'all haven't watched Assen race 1 lately, have you...

=)

I don't know if I'd say Spies is more talented than Edwards. SBK Championship 2002 ring any bells? At this stage in his career I think Edwards will be hard pressed to match or beat Spies.

If I add 'at this juncture' will it work? ;D

well, it seems that the "haga is going to retire at the end of this season" rumors were unfounded:

http://superbikeplanet.com/2009/Sep/090921z.htm (http://superbikeplanet.com/2009/Sep/090921z.htm)

Who is this "Farbizio" guy?  :P

Makes sense as a CYA move.  Either Haga wins this year, in which case he gets the championship he's wanted for so long.  Or The Ben wins this year and goes to GP, removing a major obstable to Nori winning next year.

What, just like when Bayliss left, or Toseland left, or Edwards left - FFS, how old is Haga? For all I know I could add Fogarty and Kocinsky to that list without being too out of line!

 [evil]

{edit}Yep, Haga came 7th the last year Fogarty won, and the WSBK website won't show me stats further back than that - it _does_ tell me he's been riding WSBK since _1994!_, so I can add Troy COrser to that list, but not Scott Russell...

big

I never said that Nori wouldn't somehow find a way to not win the championship in 2010 if The Ben wins this year.  I just said that it makes sense.    

Yeah, he's old as dirt.  ;D

the first four years of that (1994-1997) were (mostly) wildcard spots.

haga and russell were teammates at yamaha for the 1998 season. haga finished higher than russell in the championship that year (6th to russell's 10th).

honestly, haga's best championship shots to date have been 2000 (dq for ephedrine), 2004 (privateer ducati kept breaking and he still finished 3rd), and 2007 (lost to toseland by 2 points)...

not necesarily so easy....with the looming possibility of JT coming back to WSBK from GP and the Mole and gawd knows whom or what else in the superbike shuffle, it is anyone's game as to whom or what will be at the front of next years grid....

I think Ben would beat Edwards, but saying he'd step right in and beat Jorge means you're saying Ben is essentially Rossi's equal.  I don't see Ben on that level.  I think he'll need a season to come to grips with the GP bikes.  The tires/grip levels are in another world compared to what he rides on, as are the electronics and power delivery.  I'd have him fighting with Dovi/Edwards for the 5th spot.  If Stoner comes back 100%, he's a weekly top 3 lock with Jorge and Vale.  Pedro is too inconsistant, but still wraps up that top 4 slot.

If Ben doesn't have the exact same bike as Lorenzo/Rossi then he won't get within 2 secs of them on race day at least not without one of them making a riders error.  

GP is as much about the bike/package as it is the rider when it comes to winning and placing on the podium consistently.

With a full factory bike and full factory support I'll put my money on Ben.  Without it no way no how.

He's wicked fast AND his racecraft is smart as hell (the last 3 laps of Race 1 last race were great the way he toyed and worked Haga before putting the hammer down last lap)  AND he will fight for a close win.  Noone on the GP grid has all 3 of those to the same level outside of Rossi -- and I like Ben's chances there as well.


EDIT  -- My own post got me thinking LOL.  Just for laughs here's where I'd grade the contenders in these three fields (like Madden ratings for a video game for speed, strength, awareness etc).

                   FAST                 RCRFT                  FIGHT

Rossi               9                      10                        10
Stoner            10                      8                          8
Lorenzo           9                       7                          8
Pedrosa           9                       6                          7
Hayden           7                       8                          9
Dovi                8                       5                          7
Spies               9                      10                         9

I like the idea of that ranking system Cowboy.   [thumbsup]

Interesting . . . I'm gonna have to think on that one for a bit.

randy Randy is set with LCR for 2010

http://www.crash.net/motogp/news/152551/1/randy_de_puniet_re-signs_for_lcr_honda.html (http://www.crash.net/motogp/news/152551/1/randy_de_puniet_re-signs_for_lcr_honda.html)

Er no.

Nope (http://www.motogp.com/en/news/2009/canepa+interview).

Canepa continues with Pramac Racing in Portugal

Young Italian rider now able to concetrate on Estoril job following confirmation of continuation with Ducati satellite team.

It needs a thread of it's own.  For example: Lorenzo has less fight than Spies?  Whatever!   ;D

One person's subjective ratings aren't another person's.

apparently the Enquirer is sure that ben is going to tech 3.

http://www.motorcyclenews.com/MCN/sport/sportresults/MotoGP/2009/September/sep2209-edwards-deserved-new-tech3-deal/ (http://www.motorcyclenews.com/MCN/sport/sportresults/MotoGP/2009/September/sep2209-edwards-deserved-new-tech3-deal/)

http://www.motomatters.com/news/2009/09/24/silly_season_2010_update_only_a_couple_o.html (http://www.motomatters.com/news/2009/09/24/silly_season_2010_update_only_a_couple_o.html)

rea @ ten kate

http://www.crash.net/world+superbikes/news/152656/1/rea_ten_kate_honda_extension_confirmed.html (http://www.crash.net/world+superbikes/news/152656/1/rea_ten_kate_honda_extension_confirmed.html)

Bayliss talking about racing motorcycles again?

http://www.motomatters.com/news/2009/09/25/bayliss_wants_to_come_back_to_world_supe.html (http://www.motomatters.com/news/2009/09/25/bayliss_wants_to_come_back_to_world_supe.html)

His wife is sick of him already! ;)

I wouldn't mind seeing that.

toseland, bayliss, spies speculation city...

http://www.motomatters.com/news/2009/09/28/spies_to_announce_motogp_switch_tomorrow.html (http://www.motomatters.com/news/2009/09/28/spies_to_announce_motogp_switch_tomorrow.html)

http://www.motomatters.com/news/2009/09/28/aprilia_to_field_2nd_team_in_sbk_in_2010.html (http://www.motomatters.com/news/2009/09/28/aprilia_to_field_2nd_team_in_sbk_in_2010.html)

http://www.motomatters.com/news/2009/09/28/toseland_and_crutchlow_to_yamaha_wsbk_in.html (http://www.motomatters.com/news/2009/09/28/toseland_and_crutchlow_to_yamaha_wsbk_in.html)

kallio stays @ pramac. shocker.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/79062 (http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/79062)

Not a lot of open seats left.

Yami -- Rossi, Lorenzo
Duc -- Hayden, Stoner
Honda -- Dovi, Crashy McPintsize
Suzuki -- Bautista, Capi
LCR -- De Puniet
Gresini Honda -- Team Marco (Simoncelli & Melandri)
Tech III -- Edwards, OPEN (Spies)
Pramac  -- Kallio, OPEN
Aspar -- Barbera

What else?  Scot?  The new entry?

they're pretty sure Gabor (and his money) will be back @ Scot.

supposedly there will be a to52land.. and therefore spies... announcement on thursday (http://www.motomatters.com/news/2009/09/30/toseland_announcement_on_thursday.html)

still grumblings of a 2nd LCR bike..?

Wouldn't it be fairly safe to be that Pasini is the likely choice for the second Pramac bike? Also, is Aoyama staying in 250/moto2?

what about Esparago?

http://www.motogp.com/en/news/2009/Edwards+and+Spies+to+ride+for+Tech+3+in+2010 (http://www.motogp.com/en/news/2009/Edwards+and+Spies+to+ride+for+Tech+3+in+2010)

Official ;D

Spies to join Edwards at Tech 3 in 2010

I just love that all the coverage is all about Spies and somewhere in the backrounding slinking quietly is some tidbit about JT's future....but it won't get anywhere near the coverage/acknowledgement...

Hells yeah! Go Team Texas!  [clap]

Saw The Ben is bringing some of his crew with him. You racing-knowledgable people, does that make things harder on Spies in the transition, as they don't have GP experience either? Or does the comfort level and ease of communication outweigh the GP inexperience?

it makes it easier...

Swwwweeeeeeeet!  [beer]

Man, he's got a lot of work to do.   Running through the talent on the grid in my head--The Big 4, Hayden, Melandri, Simoncelli, Bautista, Melandri, Edwards, Dovi--- it's scary, particularly if they get those zukes running. 

Ben's goal of 6-8 sounds about right. 

The influx of rookie talent for 2010 has me pretty exited. This year was somewhat lackluster as far as rookies go (Takahashi, Gabor, Kallio, etc.). Hopefully we will see the new blood mixing it up with the big 4 early on.

With Hector Barbera on the grid, I think blood is the right word ;D

let the overzealous statements and nonsense wagering begin!

;D

....and just to reiterate for the 100th time: how effin retarded is Suzuki feeling about now....  [laugh]

http://superbikeplanet.com/2009/Oct/091001c.htm (http://superbikeplanet.com/2009/Oct/091001c.htm)

it'll get some coverage.

acknowledgement... for?  i'll be glad to see JT be competitive again, but let's face it: he's already a 2-time wsbk champ.  this is nothing but a step backwards.

http://superbikeplanet.com/2009/Oct/091001-ridernotes.htm (http://superbikeplanet.com/2009/Oct/091001-ridernotes.htm)

"Another great rival for next season," said Valentino who admitted to being surprised that Ben was coming but agreed it was the right decision. Jorge Lorenzo agreed: "Class, a very strong character." However, the general warning was don't expect to do here what you've done in Superbike.

Good news. :)

I genuinely hope he doesn't fall prey to the same failings as many other SBK transplants.

As far as JT goes, it is a step back IMO but I don't really give a crap about him anyway. He didn't win the championship in SBK until all the really serious guys left. His second was definitely more convincing.

http://www.motomatters.com/news/2009/10/01/out_of_the_blue_and_into_the_green_verme.html (http://www.motomatters.com/news/2009/10/01/out_of_the_blue_and_into_the_green_verme.html)

the mole to paul bird kawi?  with shakey or sykes?  or hacking?  (ok... no mention of jamie ;))

He still has a ride...

Better than selling insurance. ;D

http://www.motomatters.com/news/2009/10/03/hiroshi_aoyama_to_motogp_in_2010_with_ca.html (http://www.motomatters.com/news/2009/10/03/hiroshi_aoyama_to_motogp_in_2010_with_ca.html)

http://www.superbikeplanet.com/2009/Oct/091005a.htm (http://www.superbikeplanet.com/2009/Oct/091005a.htm)

the Mole goes to WSBK on a Kawi!

or, how to guarantee i continue to get 7th

That sounds a bit optimistic. It's a Kawasaki.

rumors are a new zx10 for 2010...

i wouldn't exactly count kawasaki out of superbike....

for that matter, look at what melandri has done on the hayate.

Doesn't look like the "new" 10r will do him any favors over the "old" one: http://www.roadracingworld.com/news/article/?article=38280 (http://www.roadracingworld.com/news/article/?article=38280)

The Dornasaki doesn't count...

even at a newer ZX10R, unless someone can give them feedback to get their head out of their ass with, they are going to continue to suck. Their track record is to build a machine that no one can ride it seems since Eddie Lawson did it on a KZ1000 back in the early 80's.

i was a bit surprised that broc parkes didn't do more on the kawi.  but apparently you can't even put a qualy tire on that bike or it ruins the entire set up.  there's a bike that needs some revision...

hacking was making progress on the current "pos" zx10 last year.

hmm.. mebbe it's the 2011 bike that's going to be "all new..."

making progress ain't making a winner!...nothing against the Hacker....

i was a bit surprised that broc parkes didn't do more on the kawi.  but apparently you can't even put a qualy tire on that bike or it ruins the entire set up.  there's a bike that needs some revision...

***Important; this IS NOT a side swipe at Ben Spies.***

JT is being treated harshly both in MotoGP and here. In MotoGP he is at the very least a solid mid-pack rider, in WSBK he is a two time world champion (once against Bayliss and Haga, hardly second rate riders).

Other MotoGP riders have had much longer mid-pack careers and been treated in a kinder fashion, so what gives? I'm shocked that Carmelo didn't seem to do more to find a ride for him (or any other Brit), and instead allowed another American rider who's only current claim to fame is winning AMA Superbike championships. MotoGP is dying for markets and viewership and in one fell stroke they have disenfranchised one of their largest remaining markets, non too bright I think.

If Spies doesn't win WSBK and goes on to have a mid-pack career in MotoGP, (which I'm sure he will while on a Tech3) then he will have made a huge career mistake imo. I for one am thrilled that they are doing away with 250 2 strokes, at the very least it will slacken the domination of the GP classes by Italians and Spaniards.

I know this is an American dominated board and yes as a Brit obviously I'm disappointed that there won't be a Brit in MotoGP next year, but come on guys!

Dunno...I think people here treat everyone *but* Valentino Rossi harshly at times ;D

did you type this before or after composing your post?  ;D


i think that james didn't do himself any favors when the only reason he was sure that he wasn't leaving gp was because there's no way dorna was going to allow the only brit to leave.


depends on how you define "mid pack..." colin doesn't seem to have a problem beating some (most) other factory efforts on a second tier yamaha.

i personally think ben will finish the 2010 championship higher than colin.


i totally understand your point... i'm somewhat surprised that it's going to be a brit-less championship. i'm pretty sure that james had a choice of either taking a factory yamaha seat in worldsbk or trying to find a non-yamaha (likely non-factory) seat in motogp.

His first championship was crap, his second was definitely good on an un-developed bike.

Spies has done more than "just win the AMA championship". I know you're not having a go at Spies but that's *vastly* understating his achievements so far this season. Best rookie in the history of WSBK and will either win the championship or push Haga until the last race. I personally want Haga to win but that's just an opinion. He hasn't seen most of these tracks before, had never raced the bike & it was a new bike. JT is a very good rider but his effort in WSBK didn't even approach that. JT had 16 wins *total* in WSBK over the period of 7 years. Spies has 13 wins in 1 year.

Colin Edwards has done really well on a bike that's approaching factory spec & is still very close to getting 5th in the championship behind the "aliens" and Dovi. How is that bad? Spies should allow one year (lap? ;)) to learn the tracks on the near factory spec Yamaha & then he will have options. JT initially did well but really hasn't been making any progress compared to his team mate which is a very important distinction. Tech 3 already have an experienced rider & it makes sense to pick someone up with potential. Unfortunately for JT, he's in this position when there's a glut of riders out there.

I'm Australian, so I'm apparently going to pregnant dog about anything I can think of. Personally I think JT gets over hyped. He's an overly aggressive rider (or was in WSBK) to the point of bumping people out of the way. Some people love that, I don't. I don't think that any one deserves to be in any racing unless they're good enough to compete, irrespective of their nationality. I don't care if there aren't any Brits in MGP & to be honest, if there weren't any Australians because they weren't good enough then so be it. I'm also American truth be told so I'd love to see Spies do well in GP but I'm not going to hold my breath.

As for the comment about 2 strokes breaking the domination by Italians & Spaniards - MotoGP has the best risers in the world. The lower classes prepare these riders better for GP than SBK racing you seem to have the causality ass about. Having riders with less experience riding in the manner required and therefore allowing other nationalities in doesn't exactly sound great to me. I hope that Moto2 will foster the same riding style that will allow GP to have the greatest riders in the world and *NOT* so that we can lower the bar to let people in because we "need" representation from particular countries. Of course I mean *any* country, including my own.

Go look up Bradley Smith btw: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bradley_Smith_(motorcyclist) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bradley_Smith_(motorcyclist))

so is chris vermeulen. 


even if he completely duffs up portimao and finishes second in the wsbk championship, this whole year is unquestionably a claim to fame.

i mean... seriously.  come on.  he blitzed the entire series from day one.


i don't see how taking the chance to go to GP if you get it can ever be a mistake.  this is exactly what JT just did.  if you're serious about being a racer and you get the chance, you take it.


i agree, it's disappointing.  but your whole post seems to suggest that ben somehow 'stole' JT's seat.  that, uh, aint what happened.  this isn't a popularity contest and no one is 'treating' james any which way.  he didn't get the job done.

Don't forget that JT shot himself in the foot this season by the garage swap drama.  He *had* to do better than Colin or risk losing his seat imo.  I think JT took a few steps back this year and with Spies sitting in the wings, there is no way he was keeping his seat with Tech3 after his performance.

Good post Jester, my feelings exactly. JT is a good rider and he'll do well in his return to WSBK... I hope. I hear that there's some guy named Bayliss who went back to WSBK and even won some championships. Didn't seem to do him any harm. [laugh] [thumbsup] JT certainly didn't get on anyone's Christmas card list pulling the smoke and mirrors crew chief swap last year. Surprised Edwards didn't sucker punch him over that one. But it didn't help him on the track one iota and all it did was put up a curtain in the Tech 3 garage. Probably motivated Edwards to beat him in every round. I can easily see Yammyhammer putting the squeeze on JT to do the swap with Spies. If you are going to be "demoted" for not performing in MotoGP going to the Yamaha factory WSBK team with a great crew and bike isn't so bad. A whole lot worse things can happen to a rider. ;D

I'm kinda sorry I mentioned Spies honestly since that's what folks are latching onto.

I'm not suggesting or even implying that Spies stole JT's seat (those are your words). My point about Spies was if he doesn't win WSBK, then history isn't going to remember the stellar year he's had. Only that he went to GP having only won AMA superbike. I'm also not denying his talent... on a superbike, but, as we are seeing the most successful 800cc GP riders come up from 250's or 125's where corner speed is king. Everyone, but everyone says that switching to 800's changed the whole game, forcing riders to go back to their 250 days for riding pointers. I'm of the opinion that superbike riders who came up through supersport then superbike are going to struggle in GP until they finally go back to 990's. I don't want to see a talent like Spies reduced to a grid filler. Let's face it, Hayden, Edwards and JT were/are awesome superbike pilots but struggle to get the 800's to run up front.

Back to my main point, and that is seeing as there are 4 Brits in the top 10 of world superbike and 1 in the top 5 of world supersport that there aren't any, or even the prospect of any in GP's?

And for my Aussie buddy, yes thanks I know who Bradley Smith is.

1st, I want to break the JT bashing ice with this nice lil tidbit about another in WSBK paddock for next year...

http://hellforleathermagazine.com/2009/10/ktm-quits-gp-racing.html#more (http://hellforleathermagazine.com/2009/10/ktm-quits-gp-racing.html#more)

now...to the point of 250's cultivating GP racers over the past, I agree now moreso with the idea of that being a working formula with GP's being the current format of 800cc's. With the Moto2 bikes being more or less supposedly Supersport machines with free range of chassis, the whole dynamic of those riders is going to change, and with the fodder having settled into the quiet for now, GP is next. Whether it be 2011 or later, the distinct feeling still looms that either bigger bore will return with a stripping of electronic aids, or a spec motor and computer set-up is on the horizon, which will usher in a more loose and freestyle show of riders that the SBK riders are much more akin to. I think nationality will have nothing to do with it as this is a world sport that is being driven by the world media machine, not by a national or regional aspect only. Fans will still be fans if "the Show" is something exciting to watch.

As far as I can tell, the Brit crowd sucks Rossi's knob like a homegrown hero anyway, so what's the problem?  Its not like you guys don't have anyone to root for.

espargaro to pramac ducati:

http://www.crash.net/motogp/news/153260/1/espargaro_set_for_2010_pramac_motogp_ride.html (http://www.crash.net/motogp/news/153260/1/espargaro_set_for_2010_pramac_motogp_ride.html)

this seems to be getting some more traction...

camier and byrne to an additional aprilia worlsbk team:

http://www.visordown.com/motorcycle-racing-news-wsb/scoop-camier-to-partner-byrne-in-second-aprilia-team/8351.html (http://www.visordown.com/motorcycle-racing-news-wsb/scoop-camier-to-partner-byrne-in-second-aprilia-team/8351.html)

[laugh] [laugh]

Look in the mirror mate, just about everyone sucks Rossi's knob. :P

I'm not happy about the whole Moto2 thing, Honda 600cc supersport motors in random chassis. What I do like about Moto2 is that there seems to be broad support & interest in the series which will hopefully get more people involved & make for interesting racing. I think it's important to note that it has actually been proven that people from a 250 background seem to ride the 800 GP bikes better so how will this affect the GP in terms of Moto2 being a feeder? Of course I may have it backwards too, possibly the best riders are actually from a 250 background so they made the GP bikes the way they are to accommodate those riders?

Tufty - I think that part of the reason that there aren't a lot of Brits in GP is that WSBK & road bikes are more popular? I don't know England or English riders but it just seems that there really hasn't been many Brits coming up through 125s & 250s anyway suggesting that the preference is to go through WSS/WSBK to get to a world championship. It's not as though there are a lot of Aussies either probably for similar reasons (plus the distance factor). Bradley Smith has been doing pretty well actually - very cool.  [thumbsup]

Byrne deserves a seat, he's been riding like a champ.

I totally agree (weird! ;)), which is why I'm pumped about Moto2 I think it will open up GP to more world talent and not just leave it to Italian and Spanish kids on 125 2 strokes that don't even sell anywhere else in the world. Like I said, I believe the writing is on the wall for 800 GP bikes in their current configuration. The races are a real snooze-fest mostly, either yank the traction control, go back to 990's or preferably both.

I agree about Byrne too (yeah I know, I must be sick or something [wine]), he is a way better rider than his results this year indicate. It doesn't help that he is riding the slowest 1198 ever made. :(

alrighty then... that's just how i read it. 

and i'm hardly bashing JT.  i loved watching him in wsbk and bummed that it didn't pan out in GP.  oddly, he's someone who seems to have gotten on better with the michelins than the 'stones.

that's for damn sure.


which is really weird when you look at how fast he was at the portimao test.

yeah i know. My slow observation was made when Fabrizio was able to cruise past him at will last week.

Kind of like Vale on JT at Losail in 2008.  [laugh]

MotoGP riders tipped for Moto2: http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/79345 (http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/79345)

Does this count as silly season?

of course.

wsbk silly, facts & speculation

http://www.crash.net/world+superbikes/news/153333/1/world_superbike_grid_taking_shape.html (http://www.crash.net/world+superbikes/news/153333/1/world_superbike_grid_taking_shape.html)

huh.. now maybe the vastly differing opinions on max's health make more sense

http://www.motomatters.com/news/2009/10/10/wsbk_neukirchner_to_ten_kate.html (http://www.motomatters.com/news/2009/10/10/wsbk_neukirchner_to_ten_kate.html)

haslam and guintoli to alstare suzuki:

http://www.superbikeplanet.com/2009/Oct/091012d.htm (http://www.superbikeplanet.com/2009/Oct/091012d.htm)

kagayama returns to bsb.

confirmed: http://www.crash.net/world+superbikes/news/153469/1/neukirchner_confirmed_at_ten_kate_honda.html (http://www.crash.net/world+superbikes/news/153469/1/neukirchner_confirmed_at_ten_kate_honda.html)

http://www.motomatters.com/news/2009/10/15/7_hondas_on_the_grid_in_2010_but_who_wil.html (http://www.motomatters.com/news/2009/10/15/7_hondas_on_the_grid_in_2010_but_who_wil.html)

http://translate.google.com:80/translate?hl=en&sl=it&u=http://www.repubblica.it/2009/10/sport/motogp/rossi-vicino-alla-ducati/rossi-vicino-alla-ducati/rossi-vicino-alla-ducati.html&ei=x5vXSve1MY-0sgPUvJmLBg&sa=X&oi=translate&resnum=8&ct=result&ved=0CBsQ7gEwBw&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dla%2BRepubblica%2Bducati%2Brossi%26hl%3Den%26client%3Dfirefox-a%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:en-US:official%26hs%3DtqY (http://translate.google.com:80/translate?hl=en&sl=it&u=http://www.repubblica.it/2009/10/sport/motogp/rossi-vicino-alla-ducati/rossi-vicino-alla-ducati/rossi-vicino-alla-ducati.html&ei=x5vXSve1MY-0sgPUvJmLBg&sa=X&oi=translate&resnum=8&ct=result&ved=0CBsQ7gEwBw&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dla%2BRepubblica%2Bducati%2Brossi%26hl%3Den%26client%3Dfirefox-a%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:en-US:official%26hs%3DtqY)

This could win a prize for the longest link ;)

I can fix the link.... :P

http://tinyurl.com/yzs4kcl (http://tinyurl.com/yzs4kcl)

Damn... I'd like to see that happen. ;)

he doesn't go to F1 i think this is the somewhat inevitable swan song move

http://www.motomatters.com/news/2009/10/16/elias_to_moto2_with_sito_pons_in_2010.html (http://www.motomatters.com/news/2009/10/16/elias_to_moto2_with_sito_pons_in_2010.html)

http://www.motomatters.com/news/2009/10/16/scot_honda_courting_de_angelis_for_motog.html (http://www.motomatters.com/news/2009/10/16/scot_honda_courting_de_angelis_for_motog.html)

http://www.motomatters.com/news/2009/10/16/wsbk_checa_to_ride_privateer_ducati_in_2.html (http://www.motomatters.com/news/2009/10/16/wsbk_checa_to_ride_privateer_ducati_in_2.html)

If he went to F1 it would most likely be to Ferrari and they are set for Massa and "Eyebrows" for 2010

Nothing sez he can't do both (but not at the same time)

there have been multiple suggestions that they could run a third car.  but i think he'll stay in GP.

Seems that Rossi on a Duc has all been wishful thinking:

http://www.motomatters.com/news/2009/10/16/rossi_denies_ducati_switch_rumors_more_i.html (http://www.motomatters.com/news/2009/10/16/rossi_denies_ducati_switch_rumors_more_i.html)

maybe...

Ben wasn't going to GP either.

I can still dream...

Those were more for Kimi's benefit than anything.  Notice that they haven't come up since the "announcement,"

Rossi to Ducati is about nothing more than selling cigarettes....

So, how about Rossi on an MV?  Rossi and Burgess spearhead a group of well-heeled investors (including, maybe, Marlboro) that buys the brand from HD and - seemingly overnight - develops a competitive bike for 2011....Rossi breaking Ago's record on an MV would be, in Alanis's words, 'ironic'.  [evil]

Well, OT, you get lots of points for creativity!  [laugh]

Pulled this snippet off of motorcycle news.

Burgess on the Ducati rumors:


 [laugh]  Gotta love that guy.

http://www.crash.net/world+superbikes/news/153772/1/tom_sykes_joins_vermeulen_at_pbm_kawasaki.html (http://www.crash.net/world+superbikes/news/153772/1/tom_sykes_joins_vermeulen_at_pbm_kawasaki.html)

thought that was already confirmed?

I thought the Mole was, but didn't know about Sykes to the kwak.

stiggy's bank account gets skinnier... no westy @ portimao

http://www.superbikeplanet.com/2009/Oct/091021westout.htm (http://www.superbikeplanet.com/2009/Oct/091021westout.htm)

rainbow brite may get a reprieve: http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/79643 (http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/79643)

Meregalli goes to GP with Lorenzo?: http://www.motomatters.com/news/2009/10/27/meregalli_to_be_lorenzo_s_new_team_manag.html (http://www.motomatters.com/news/2009/10/27/meregalli_to_be_lorenzo_s_new_team_manag.html)

or not.  http://www.motomatters.com/news/2009/10/28/san_marino_backing_for_scot_honda_fails_.html (http://www.motomatters.com/news/2009/10/28/san_marino_backing_for_scot_honda_fails_.html)

oh, and shinya nakano retired.

They should grab Cluzel.

that make the beast with two backser is 'motivated'. ;D

that's an understatement.  ;D

hodgson (back) to bsb:

http://superbikeplanet.com/2009/Nov/091103100.htm (http://superbikeplanet.com/2009/Nov/091103100.htm)

Strong rumors of Livio Suppo leaving his post as Ducati Race Team Manager:

http://www.superbikeplanet.com/2009/Nov/0911040iax2.htm (http://www.superbikeplanet.com/2009/Nov/0911040iax2.htm)
http://www.motomatters.com/news/2009/11/04/livio_suppo_to_leave_ducati.html (http://www.motomatters.com/news/2009/11/04/livio_suppo_to_leave_ducati.html)

now we can tie this thread to the stoner mystery illness thread..

Casey Stoner's three-race absence this summer was a PR disaster, and Ducati's normally superb PR machine seemed to grind to a halt in the face of Stoner's illness. Instead of issuing daily press releases updating the world on Stoner's progress - based on either fact or fiction - and being on the phone to every motorcycle racing media outlet on the face of the planet, getting them onside, Suppo seemed as perplexed as the reporters asking him the questions, and was left repeating the vaguest of mantras to assuage the press onslaught. Phillip Morris made their dissatisfaction with the situation very public, their sponsorship boss Maurizio Arrivabene demanding an apology from Stoner. It is entirely conceivable that Suppo has been offered as a sacrifice to appease the wrath of the tobacco giant.

Tardozzi moving on too????

http://www.superbikeplanet.com/2009/Nov/091105a.htm (http://www.superbikeplanet.com/2009/Nov/091105a.htm)

this just is getting silly IMHO....

Please see thread title and refer to name given to this part of the season... ;)

Kind of odd, yes.

That would suck IMO.  He seems like the poster child of a team manager.

mitt

Suppo to Honda.
Tardozzi to...well, whomever makes him an attractive offer, apparently.

http://www.motomatters.com/news/2009/11/05/ducati_management_shakeup_tardozzi_and_s.html (http://www.motomatters.com/news/2009/11/05/ducati_management_shakeup_tardozzi_and_s.html)
http://www.motomatters.com/news/2009/11/05/ducati_makes_it_official_suppo_gone_to_b.html (http://www.motomatters.com/news/2009/11/05/ducati_makes_it_official_suppo_gone_to_b.html)

Wow...just wow...

A lot of people are saying that this stuff is all in preparation for Ducati making a play for Rossi. I know that's been discussed to death, that Rossi's denied it, etc. But still intriguing.

2011 Silly Season's going to be epic.

Actually, it's already epic.  [laugh]

just the crap coming out of yamaha alone is already ridiculous.. the 2011 thread may end up being 100 pages  ;)

i bet valentino goes.

Suppo will become the marketing manager for HRC in MotoGP. Suppo worked for HRC in the mid-1990s as the Marketing Manager for the Benetton Honda 250 team. So I guess he knows where he is going and what he is getting in to.

talmacsi to moto2 with scot.

http://www.crash.net/motogp/news/154485/1/gabor_talmacsi_confirms_moto2_future.html (http://www.crash.net/motogp/news/154485/1/gabor_talmacsi_confirms_moto2_future.html)

too early for a 2011 thread?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/motorsport/motorbikes/8349264.stm# (http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/motorsport/motorbikes/8349264.stm#)

World champion Valentino Rossi has hinted he will leave Yamaha if they do not drop Jorge Lorenzo in 2011.

"Yamaha have to decide between me and Jorge for 2011," Rossi told BBC Two. "I have a great option to join Ducati."

Here's the verbatim text of the Rossi interview:

http://www.crash.net/motogp/news/154563/1/what_did_valentino_rossi_mean.html (http://www.crash.net/motogp/news/154563/1/what_did_valentino_rossi_mean.html)

The death knell for De Angelis.

http://www.crash.net/motogp/news/154567/1/scot_out_of_motogp_de_angelis_deal_sunk.html (http://www.crash.net/motogp/news/154567/1/scot_out_of_motogp_de_angelis_deal_sunk.html)

SWEEP THE LEG

[laugh]

I'm looking forward to the 2010 silly season.  Really can't wait to see how all the riders shake up considering all of the "aliens" are out of contract.  I'd almost expect Marlboro to ditch Stoner and snatch one of the other three considering their issues with Stoner's lack of media presence.  He might win the championship, but Stoner still sucks for marketing.

if he's still performing, they won't ditch him. they'll lowball him and he can leave if he wants to/thinks he can challenge on non-duc.

body doubles, threats, etc..

i understand why you say that... esp if lorenzo and rossi are on the market.. but the guy is still batshit fast.  you can still market the hell out of a title, even if your pilot is not rossi'esque with the media.

then again, if you aactually have rossi instead..

Stoner's a racer. The marketing drones should be able to spruce him up, give him an angle, and prod the media into action. They shouldn't let him go because the teeth bleachers are sitting on their hands. They should keep Stoner, get some new marketing folks to package him and sell him.

that part of the marketing is easy.

it's the "please show up for a photo shoot" or "marlboro would like you to make an appearance (and maybe even race the whole season, please)" shit that stoner can't be bothered to do.

roger lee hayden to jir moto2:

http://www.motomatters.com/news/2009/11/11/moto2_provisional_line_up_so_far.html (http://www.motomatters.com/news/2009/11/11/moto2_provisional_line_up_so_far.html)

He does show up. He's just so fast that he comes and goes before anyone even notices he's there. Just ask Adriana [laugh]

Is Stoner having stamina issues in the sack?

That might lead to more wrist problems...

[thumbsup]

I'd like to see some more Americans, Australians and Englanders in Moto2 otherwise we'll be complaining that no one can get into GP in a couple of years…  [roll]

well i'll be darned...

http://www.motomatters.com/news/2009/11/18/canepa_switches_to_moto2.html (http://www.motomatters.com/news/2009/11/18/canepa_switches_to_moto2.html)

Toseland speaks about his MotoGP seasons:
http://www.crash.net/world+superbikes/news/155114/1/exclusive_toseland_i_didnt_fail_in_motogp.html (http://www.crash.net/world+superbikes/news/155114/1/exclusive_toseland_i_didnt_fail_in_motogp.html)

<blinks>

Dude, you finished 4 places behind Melandri on the Hayate.  [roll]

And hence why JT failed. If he called what he did not a failure then how would he ever have improved?

I was at my old job, which I did well.  Then I went to a new job.  At first I showed promise, but then I sucked.  So they fired me.  I'm back at my old job now.  But I definitely didn't "fail" at my new job.    

Whisky.  Tango.  Foxtrot.   ???

More WTF:

WTF is this picture doing next to the "I didn't fail" article on crash.net?!?  This isn't Vogue or Playgirl or Best Housekeeping or whatever the target audience is for that pic.  Show us a picture of JT on a motorcycle, not a picture for his pre-teen fan club.  That said, he's just dreaaaaamy.   [roll]

(http://pix.crash.net/motorsport/360/PA671991.jpg)

JT: "Don't hate me 'cause I'm fail proof."

it was in support of the (bs) poncharal line that yeah, maybe we won't bounce him from the team since he's a really nice guy.  and he's in a band 'n stuff.

My friend Jeremiah did the sound work for his band at Laguna. It didn't help...

http://www.crashband.co.uk/music.aspx (http://www.crashband.co.uk/music.aspx)

I thought he was more of a sensative piano man.  The cover of "Are you gonna go may way" is particularly aweful! :o

4. If I ever lose my faith in you

Dude...they're covering Sting. Not The Police, mind you, but Sting.

From the Bios:


James | Keyboard & Vocals

Not only is he pretty handy on a MotoGP bike, James is a talented musician with a great voice. Some people have all the luck! When he’s not battling Valentino Rossi and the rest of the MotoGP field, he returns to his first love – music – to let his hair down in style.

Um, yeah. He's not battling Valentino. More like...getting lapped by.

I would *love* to see this . . . http://twitter.com/matmladin (http://twitter.com/matmladin)

a couple of world superbike offers have come my way in the past month. 1 of them very good in regards to machinery. decisions decisions ;-)

I'd love to see your pal douchebrizio punt him off the track. ;D

I really dislike that guy.

Yeah, but he can ride. 

I go back and forth on Mladin.  Sometimes I love him.  Sometimes I think he's the biggest asshole ever to roam the planet.  And he's just mean.  But like I said, he can really ride.  I'd love to see him in the WSBK bump n' grind.   [moto]

Yes...

he can.

But why does he have to make something we all love...

seem like nothing more than a used car salesman making a deal?

That is why I dislike him so intensely.

and that is why I'd like to see him elbow to elbow, hip dip in the quagmire with people and machinery above the level of what he has become accustomed to in the last few years of AMA and actually have to compete to make a place in a race.

Mladin in WSBK? Nah, it ain't happening.

He'd risk being an also ran and then a whole lot of arm chair racer types saying "See, I told you he couldn't compete in the bigs."

He'd definitely be playing with fire.

do you really think he would care about that?

again, i think people underestimate mladin.

which, given his influence and subsequent result on the ben, is still surprising.

hell, ben went as far as to say that after racing mladin for 3 years, wsbk was... not that hard.

Kevin Cameron comments very highly of Mladin in the Jan 2010 (print edition) issue of Cycle World

Assuming the crank thing never happened, didn't he win more races than Ben in 2008?  I guess you can say that he crossed the line in front of Ben more times in 2008 than vice versa  :).

yes, but the ama point system also rewards consistency over wins.

(ben) bostrom won his championship without a single win.

True.  I'm not saying he's better than Spies, or as good as Spies, but he's definitely in the ballpark.  Given a good ride, I'd expect him to do well in WSBK.

I'm not underestimating him, I think he's the dogs bollocks. But he did make a song and dance about retiring and if he decides to come back he is risking a lot.

I like Mat, always have, always will. Definitely in the top 20 racers of all time.

http://www.motomatters.com/news/2009/12/10/could_mat_mladin_race_in_wsbk.html (http://www.motomatters.com/news/2009/12/10/could_mat_mladin_race_in_wsbk.html)

 a good summary of what hath transpired thus far...along with the spewing forth the rumor that his ride could very well be Bavarian in nature...

....testing?

http://www.motomatters.com/news/2009/12/11/mladin_to_test_bmw_in_oz.html (http://www.motomatters.com/news/2009/12/11/mladin_to_test_bmw_in_oz.html)

It doesn't make any sense to me...but I am stupid.

Corser and Xaus were on lesser machinery on factory bikes. Granted it's a bike in development.

How does a privateer team with a less than top bike to start with fill Mladins' requirement?

+11tyb.  

I mean everyone *says* the BMW is a good bike, but if neither Corser nor Xaus can win on it, how good is it really?  The priller was really great out of the box (and legal?), the Hondas are always good, Kawis suck, the Suke is intermittant (sometimes good, sometimes sucks, but they haven't really had any competitive riders on it after Max N hurt himself).  And, of course, the Ducs--even the privateer Ducs--are great.  The Yamaha?  Great in Ben's hands, but not much of anything in Sykes.  Hard to say about the bike itself 'cept that the electronics were fubar'd in the beginning of the year.

So why does a privateer BMW make sense?  If he's going privateer, it should either be a Duc, Honda or 'priller.  Or if he can get Yosh to do a Suke with some factory help, that'd make the most sense.

'de angerous' confirmed at scot moto2:

http://www.crash.net/motogp/news/155340/1/de_angelis_agrees_moto2_deal_with_scot_racing.html (http://www.crash.net/motogp/news/155340/1/de_angelis_agrees_moto2_deal_with_scot_racing.html)

http://www.motomatters.com/news/2009/12/14/andrew_pitt_to_take_2nd_bmw_wsbk_ride_no.html (http://www.motomatters.com/news/2009/12/14/andrew_pitt_to_take_2nd_bmw_wsbk_ride_no.html)

http://www.crash.net/world+superbikes/news/155392/1/pitt_returns_to_wsbk_on_a_bmw.html (http://www.crash.net/world+superbikes/news/155392/1/pitt_returns_to_wsbk_on_a_bmw.html)

Why in the world would you take Pitt over Mladin?

$$$?

Or maybe Mladin really is done with racing?

or maybe he was trying to dictate too many terms and they said to hell with this guy and went with someone who was more than happy to just have a paid ride???

really?  from a non-fan, pragmatic point of view, lots of reasons.

Damn pragmatism.  Put Mat on a WSBK ride. 

Like what? I can think of a few as well like money, ego, etc but on the other hand Pitt was also a bit of a flop in WSBK last time.

he know the tracks, he's younger, he's a world champ, he's been on WSS WSBK and GP bikes, he's a well respected development rider, he's a brit, etc etc

and a lot less expensive, i bet.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrew_Pitt (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrew_Pitt)

Andrew Pitt born 19 February 1976 (1976-02-19) (age 33) in Kempsey, New South Wales, Australia...

 ;D

and, fwiw, pitt is only four years younger than mladin.

(i'm surprised, it thought pitt was younger than that.)

<grumble, grumble>

f'n pragmatists f'n ruining a perfectly good f'n WSBK off season/silly season.

<grumble grumble, fack>



P.S.  I thought Australia was a state in Britain?

whats the difference, they look funny and cant speak english :P

oh yeah.  for some reason i do that all the time with him.

whatev.. the rest of the reasons were much more important.  ;)

What? They're not Americans.

Mladin's an asshole...

It only comforts him...

and gets him no ride.

Pitt's first championship was a joke. Pitt's second championship was a little more convincing but on a Ten Kate Honda in WSS, well, you usually only have to worry about your team mate.

I'll give you that he knows the tracks, I'd also point out that Mladin has compared favorably to the top WSBK guys at Philip Island tests when they've all run together.

Mladin has some pretty good development chops too.

I think it's money & ego. I think it'd make sense for Mladin to run in the Yosh Suzuki team except that it's a totally different team. Whatever, he's damn fast and *if* he could learn the tracks half as quick as Spies (maybe he uses animals too?) he'll be a way better bet for wins than Pitt.

it's not like i'm arguing for pitt.. i'd love to see mat there.  i'm just saying that is probably near the line of thinking.

besides, pitt did get 5th in the wsbk championship in '06.  seven podiums and one win. 

5th in '06 is pretty good I guess.

Mladin is better. ;D

*waits with bated breath for Nate's next insightful comment about Mladin*

Sorry to disappoint

http://www.motomatters.com/news/2010/01/02/wsbk_roger_lee_hayden_signs_with_team_pe.html (http://www.motomatters.com/news/2010/01/02/wsbk_roger_lee_hayden_signs_with_team_pe.html)

nevermind that moto2 bidness

Is there ANY chance a Kawi can run up front in WSBK (not talking WSS, where they're competitive)?  I mean, seriously. 

supposedly with the release of the 2010 or 2011 zx-10r, yes.  supposedly. 

that fact/promise/fantasy is part of what they 'got' Vermeulen with.

http://www.superbikeplanet.com/2010/Jan/100105b.htm (http://www.superbikeplanet.com/2010/Jan/100105b.htm)

Tardozzi to BMW!!!

http://www.crash.net/world+superbikes/news/155790/1/wss_chaz_davies_secures_full-time_triumph_seat.html (http://www.crash.net/world+superbikes/news/155790/1/wss_chaz_davies_secures_full-time_triumph_seat.html)

http://www.crash.net/world+superbikes/news/155970/1/wss_female_rider_signs_up_for_supersport.html (http://www.crash.net/world+superbikes/news/155970/1/wss_female_rider_signs_up_for_supersport.html)

huh.  cool.

let the comments begin....  ;)

Very cool!

http://superbikeplanet.com/2010/Jan/100120b.htm (http://superbikeplanet.com/2010/Jan/100120b.htm)

all that talk yesterday about Charpentier and JD had me thinking that that Salom guy was SOL, since they already signed Chaz.  the solution: 4 bikes.

....d'oh!

http://roadracingworld.com/news/article/?article=39177 (http://roadracingworld.com/news/article/?article=39177)

http://www.onthethrottle.com/content/view/507/1/ (http://www.onthethrottle.com/content/view/507/1/)

disalvo interview after the portimao test.

interesting to hear him talk about the track, around minute 4 of the first segment.  ...puts in perspective even more The Ben's first trip there on nori's R1.

seems like a steep step into the pool to me hearing that comparo of what a European track can be....

ironic that all year ben said that the american tracks were almost more difficult cuz of their technicalness.  i don't doubt it but flat out in 4th over a blind crest, turning in before you can see anything.. that sounds pretty tough too. 
 
:o