Ducati Monster Forum

One topic I haven't seen covered is what to do when things go really wrong and it's just you, your gear & the laws of physics. While it's obvious that every crash is going to be a bit different and there's no good (ie., not too painful & hellaciously expensive) way I can think of to practice good crashing technique, what's the best body position to aim for when you're hitting the pavement? Assuming you're fully geared up, of course.

Watching the MotoGP guys and other racers on video, it appears that in the case of a lowside, they try to keep sliding feet-first on butt & lower back, arms out. In a more dynamic highside or other violent crash (if there's any choice), it looks like they try to get their knees drawn in to around 90 degrees, with elbows & forearms out in front of them, hands in fists -- rolling & taking impacts as much as possible on armored knees, elbows, back & shoulders.

What should I be visualizing now, in order to give my protective gear the best shot at protecting me in the event of a crash?

Don't forget the Lorenzo method... ;)

I've heard racers say different things, some say roll, some say relax. I don't know if it's something you can learn. In the crashes I've had, I really haven't had time to think, it's just happened.

Keith Code's A Twist of the Wrist "I" has a section on proper crash technique.

Don't forget the obligatory OHHHHHHH  Sh!!!!!!!!!!!TTTTT!!!!!   :o :o

I don't think in most cases, there is time to say "OK, here we go....Time to practice my crash technique..."

It's probably over before you even realize what happened.....I always have wondered about the whole "vaulting yourself over the car" thing though if someone pulled out in front of you....

i suspect that the only reason pro racers look like they are so controlled is because they get more practice at it than anyone else  :D

Seriously, between practice and races I bet they 'Fall Off' a lot.

I simply can't get my mind around that euphamism.

Thanks for the book recommendation, CDawg, I owe ya one.  Wait, I guess we're even.  ;D

Actually, there often is time to have some control over your fate in many crashes -- IF you have a plan in your head to begin with and the right attitude to implement it. Visualization & planning are basic things they teach in every MSF course; you don't have to practice losing rear wheel traction in a turn in order to visualize & have a plan for dealing with it, and if you don't do that you're almost guaranteed to succumb to your reflex to chop the throttle, grab the brake, or otherwise get a very quick introduction to Mr. Highside.  If I remember right, that's exactly how it played out for you, Johnster, in the "saved it" thread -- bet you didn't think through "OK, let's see, more throttle, less throttle, brake, double back flip... What was it I was supposed to do?"

I haven't crashed a motorcycle on the street (knock on wood), and have only fallen hard off the enduro on the dirt twice, but I've raced road bicycles, mountain bikes & cyclocross bikes for a couple of decades, which means I've hit the pavement from 2 mph to 40 mph more times than I can remember, and crashed hard enough to hurt on the trail probably three to five times that number. My teammates and I had the advantage of being able to practice crashing on grass (which we'd make a point of doing every spring), but the biggest help was always visualizing a couple of basic things: RESIST your reflex to stick your hands out straight to break your fall, which guarantees broken wrists & collarbones; protect your head & neck; tuck & roll.  Especially on the first one, you're fighting against a very powerful reflex, so lots of visualization in advance of yourself doing the right thing instead is your only real chance of winning a split-second battle with that reptilian brain & your adrenal gland.

The most important thing I've learned in all those crashes is to never, ever give in to a crash, never let your brain give in to it. To begin with, two wheels can do some amazing things to stay upright, but if you decide you're crashing & let it happen, you'll never find that out. Check out http://ducatimonsterworldwide.org/index.php?topic=2383.0 for some astounding examples. Sure, these guys are pros, but what have you got to lose by trying? In road races, I've ridden through situations with bikes & bodies flying all around & bouncing off me, bunny-hopped over downed riders, lost traction on both wheels in 40 mph turns and ridden through it leaning HARD on the rider next to me. But every time my brain has said "I'm crashing now," that's exactly what happened, even though in retrospect I think of at least half a dozen things I should have tried first. And then once I've played every gambit I can to stay upright and the laws of physics say nope, not this time, that visualization kicks in and my head gets tucked behind my forearms and I do my best to land on muscle instead of bone. So far, I've got an impressive collection of road rash scars, but (knock on wood again) not a single broken bone and only one mild concussion -- and that was from a 2 mph pratfall over the handlebars.  [bang]

Since motorcycles are different -- the speeds & forces are higher, but the protective gear is a whole lot better than little scraps of lycra -- I'm looking for things I can start to train my brain to do in advance of a crash so I'm doing what little I can to tilt the odds in my direction. I'll give the Code book a look.

Word!  It's chapter 15:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/reader/0965045013/ref=sib_dp_bod_toc?ie=UTF8&p=S009#reader-link

You have to know how to fall...just like a stuntman

I've crashed on the street three times over my many decades of riding, and there was never time to think much about how I was going to land.

Most crashes on the street are not on nice big sweeping turns with lots of runoff room, so you rarely get to pick how you're going to slide once you land.

So all of my efforts go towards remaining upright while riding and that's my number one goal.

I don't plan my crashing and landing either. 

However, I have to say that in terms of injuries, my falling technique off of a bicycle has greatly improved over the last several years during which I had years of martial arts and falling training - scrapes and bruises in a couple of incidents over the last two years compared to broken wrist and collarbone from falls 15-20 years ago. 

I can tell from the locations of the bruises/scrapes that I am landing correctly, even though I was not consciously thinking of my technique as I went down. [thumbsup]

It's the neenja power you have acquired through all your training    ;D

It will happen too fast to consider your reactions...trust me on this.

Routine martial arts training is the best thing I can think of to improve your falling.  Routine training will make you react better...you will NOT have time to think.

IMO all martial arts are about the same for this...one is not particularly better than another...they all stress falling well. 

I credit my training with me bouncing on hands (bad but happened too fast to avoid) then quickly rolling on my shoulders and back and getting my feet under me and standing back up...in a fighting stance.  The witnesses said it looked like I bounced off of the ground.

Boing

In my last and most violent and bone crushing crash I came up out of a hollow hard on the throttle  on a S4Rs only to crest the hill and there in front of me was a hard left hand falling away curve and I tried to ride through it but ended up in a small water and mud filled ditch whitch which stopped the bike almost immediately but not me ! 4 violent concusions to my body off the hillside as I tumbled , feeling my body being beatento a pulp with no chance to control any of the crashing experience. I ended up about 15' from my bike on my back in the ditch not knowing if I was paralyzed but concious. I couldn't move my upper body because of the pain so I pushed myself out of the ditch with my feet and managed to get up but I knew I was hurt bad. I figured I had broken my right shoulder and punctured my right lung. plus probably broke other bones like my collar bone and ribs. My bike was still in gear and running so I had to stagger over and turn it off and then I thought I was going to pas out. Had I known I was going to crash like that I suppose I should have low sided but I did think about a broken pelvis just an instant before I tried to ride it through the curve.Ended up with 4 broken right ribs, punctured right lung, 2 sprained ankles, and alot of soft tissue damageon my right side. Good thing I had on Arai RX7 Corsair  Helmet, Silk Helmet liner, Ducati Corse Leather Jacket w/ Armor, BMW Back Protector, Dainese Pro Shorts, Dainese Mekong Armored leather pants, AlpineStars SMX Plus Racing Boots .

I have had a couple of instances on my mtn bike where really severe crashes have resulted in less injuries because I tried to control the way I fell, hit the ground, rolled etc.  But that was pedaling at much lower speeds with more time to react and hasn't involved a 3000lb vehicle with a driver on the cell phone.  Truth be told, most of those were probably stupid luck that my mind just took credit for.  As far as a motorcycle goes, if I am about to be involved in a crash that gives me time to think about how to fall, it might be time better served in more thought on how not to crash. 
I do know that if I ever slide into something I will try to make it feet first.  I like my head and Soumy helmets are expensive.  If I ever lay my bike down, I hope it is on the left side so at least I can transfer my Termi's to my new bike once I am walking again (or sell them for a downpayment). 

This is what happened to me in my lowside. 

Not much time to think about it.

Kinda balanced on my back and right elbow. The shit hit the fan when I tried to stand up before I was stopped. I started to roll and ended up on my belly. NOT AS MUCH FUN...

+1 for martial arts training!

skateboarding is another way to get LOTS of practice with hitting the ground and figuring out how to avoid getting hurt  ;)

I haven't crashed on the street.  I've only crashed at the track.  That said, I felt I had a lot of time to think about things from the point in time that I realized OOPS to when I came to rest.  This is what went through my mind:

Wow.  That felt very wrong.
Wow.  This is an impossible lean angle.
Stillie said always to stay on the throttle in this situation.
Oh, crap.  That's a dragging foot peg.
Oh, crap.  That's my clipon touching.
Stillie said to kick the bike away.
Travis said not to try to break a roll.  Just keep my limbs generally so I roll like a log.
I forget who said it, but someone said that when I think I'm stopped, tap the ground a couple of times and make sure I'm touching the same place.  15 mph feels a lot slower than 60 mph, but it's not stopped, and you can still break a wrist if you try to stand.

I just went through a list of little bits of advice people have given along the way. 

That's a really good observation, and a great way to approach a riding crisis.

Good points.  You will not have time to think, but you will have time to react and it is your reactions sometimes that will determine if you get hurt or not.  A good reaction for anyone,  "post landing" would be to relax.  The worst thing you can do in a crash is tense up and try to control the situation.

In 8 years of riding I have had about 20 roadracing crashes (and dozens more on the dirt) and have been fortunate enough to have only broken one collarbone and one toe.  I attribute most of this to my martial arts training.   I learned body awareness and how to fall from years of Karate, Kickboxing, Aikido, and grappling.  In martial arts they teach break falling and rolls and you learn a great deal about how to manipulate your body in the air so that when you land, you come down a certain way.  I've been able to do this in many situations, even without thinking about it. 

I wrote and article for Motorcycle Mojo Magazine a few years ago titled, "How well do you Bounce?" and it was all about the art of crashing.  You can view it here if you like :)  http://mistihurst.com/files/MistiMarch_April.pdf   it talks a bit about physical fitness and health as well as rider training.  Enjoy and rubber side down!

Misti

Lots of really good advise here.  You don't have a lot of time, although I'll say a lot went through my head as i slid toward a particularly imposinig guard rail a couple weeks ago.  I thought "damn" when I saw my bike lodging itself under siad guard rail and that's when I made my first mistake.  I tried to get up. 

IF you crash (I'll never say 'if you have to crash' because I don't like that attitude) try for two things. 
1) Stay relaxed.  Take the blows, try not to react to them.  Drunk people in car accidents sustain fewer injuries because they stay relaxed.
2) Don't get up when you think you've stopped.  Count to five, then look around, tap ground, whatever. 

I came out pretty good for sitting up and taking a nice tumble while still going 20 miles per hour, but I doubt I'd of had anything more than a bruised hip had I chilled for a sec.

+a lot  [thumbsup]  on the martial arts training, but if you REALLY want to get good at falling take some gymnastics classes.  (I've done both)

I was a gymnast and now have been coaching for 15 years.  A lot a gyms have adult classes that teach the very basics as well as strength and flexability.
  You learn how to spot the ground while flying through the air and even if you screw up, you have big fluffy mats to land on.
  Most gyms these days have long tumbling trampolines, spotting belts (a body harness attached to ropes and overhead pulleys that catch you a few feet off the ground if you're about to land on your head.), and my favorite, big pits filled with foam blocks. (think swimming pools filled with bubble wrap and packing peanuts)  ;D
 
  You've seen the Olympics...  how many times do you think they screw up before they actually land upright?  A few hundred times is in the ballpark. 

  I haven't put my bike down at speed (yet),  but of all the times I've done really stupid things that could have ended poorly,  I know my gymnastics training helped save my bacon.   [bacon]

Just my $0.02

Stay safe out there...


-Ryan

Lowside, get big and relaxed and try to orient yourself so you're sliding feet first. Pat the ground before trying to stand, if both your pats hit the same spot stand up, if not, relax, you aren't finished crashing yet!! [roll]

Flying over the hood of a car, stand on the pegs right before impact and try to jump off and over the obstacle. If possible try to land in a judo roll or a nice big feather bed (good luck with that one). ;D

Highside, good luck buddy, you're on your own! :'(