Ducati Monster Forum

I'd like to hear from a member who had a S4Rs with a full Termi System ,DP ECU, and Open Air Box , then got a Streetfighter S in stock form and how it compared to the S4Rs .

Acceleration through the gears ?

Handling?

Braking ?

Egonomics?

Do you think the Streetfighter S is a better bike by a S4Rs plus $10,000 ?

Dolph

Dude, you have a 1098R....


;D

I have ridden a fully kitted Rs and a SF S model.  The SF has more power, much more low end torque, and a way better chassis.  Where the Rs feels like the chassis is coming unglued, the SF feels rock solid.  The SF has ergos like a Hypermotard.  Whether you like that or not is up to you.  It out performs the Rs in every performance category but it is not a bike I would buy.  I couldn't keep it below 100 mph and that's not good for a naked bike.

Thanks Rob for that observation.

By the way, what IS good for a Naked Bike if not for going 100 mph ?

Dolph      :)

As a previous Rs owner and recently acquiring the SF (2 days ago), I have to agree on the statement above.  The ergos is not as high (seating position wise) as the Hyper but close. 

My Rs was only fitted with Quat-D Ex-Box, DP open airbox and 14t front sprocket.  I have not ridden a fully fitted Rs but to answer your questions comparing the SF to mine is;

Handling? even with the Showa the SF wins imho.  The SF is also lighter (SF 373lbs vs RS 391lbs) the 18 lbs weight reduction and 27 more hp of the SF was eminent on my first test ride.

Braking? Dont know and I probably won't know.  As long as it stops when I need it to, then, its good enough for me.

Egonomics?  I'm only 5'7 with a 30 inseam, I cant flat foot both moto but the SF is much taller (reminded me of when I owned the Daytona 675) a good 1.5 to 2 inches higher but im used to riding a motard so that was not a problem for me.  The Rs's long tank was a problem for me because my arm was too stretched from the seat to the bars.  I tried different bars and risers with no luck so i learned to live with my wrist cramps.  The SF feels more compact, im not overly stretched and my arms are not too spread out.  A bit more upright that your weight goes to your butt and not your arms.  I didnt get cramps at all coming back from the dealer to my house (35 mile ride). 

I also want to add that the foot positioning on the stock rearset is good (i wear a 9), not too high and not too low. 

Do you think the Streetfighter S is a better bike by a S4Rs plus $10,000?   I spent nearly 10k on mods for my Rs and I have to admit that my standard SF outperforms my Rs in every category.

Note; for those who are wondering why I didn’t get the S version is because of the following;
1) DTC, never had it and I doubt I’ll miss it. 2) gold frame and gold wheels are not my cup of tea. 3) Ohlins, had it on my Rs but it was useless for my riding style and I cant tell the difference between the Ohlins and the Showa ( I test rode both the S and Standard for 30mins each back to back to back).  4) I can buy a lot of goodies with the saved 4k+

(http://img8.imageshack.us/img8/7251/sf10l.th.jpg) (http://img8.imageshack.us/i/sf10l.jpg/)
(http://img190.imageshack.us/img190/39/sf5y.th.jpg) (http://img190.imageshack.us/i/sf5y.jpg/)
(http://img190.imageshack.us/img190/1752/sf2h.th.jpg) (http://img190.imageshack.us/i/sf2h.jpg/)
(http://img15.imageshack.us/img15/1471/sf8.th.jpg) (http://img15.imageshack.us/i/sf8.jpg/)
(http://img8.imageshack.us/img8/9880/sf6e.th.jpg) (http://img8.imageshack.us/i/sf6e.jpg/)
(http://img515.imageshack.us/img515/1102/sf7.th.jpg) (http://img515.imageshack.us/i/sf7.jpg/)
(http://img35.imageshack.us/img35/1801/sf9.th.jpg) (http://img35.imageshack.us/i/sf9.jpg/)

Yes , that's correct . I was contemplating getting a Streetfighter S .

My dealer is having a hard time during this Economic slow down and I was thinking I would be helping him and my Salesman I have always dealt with and I'd get a new bike......But, then I'd be back to 4 bikes and something would probably not get ridden much which wouldn't make me very happy.

It would not make sense to trade a 4500 mile S4Rs w, full Termi Exhaust System , Ohlin's Steering Damper, Rizoma Radial Naked Mirrors an open Air box and 14 T Front Sprocket plus at least $10,000 for a stock SF S.

I guess it's my age. I'm feelin' the sands of time runnin' out as far as my time for riding SBKs.

You know the saying . too many bikes ...too little time !

I have the jones for another Super Bike to try for a while.

I need something with the size and power of the " R " but the ergos of a S4Rs.

The " R " kills my Arthritic Knees.

Dolph

Give me the R and I'll make sure it doesn't go to waste.

  yasado, I appreciate all that you went in to .

If you read my answer to Nakid you may get a better understanding of what my thinking was.

I'm not unhappy with my S4Rs.

I can send it to the Ducshop and spend $7500 and have a bike that will run rings around a kitted Streetfighter S. I really don't want to send my bike a 1000 miles away for a month plus no warranty.

Last I checked I was 6'4" , 247 lbs. and w, Arthritic Knees riding my 1098 R is very painful, especially afterwards and the next couple a days.

Ride one day recuperate for three.

Dolph

Dream on Alice, you'll get to Wonderland some day .  ;D

Now answer my question ......please.   
Dolph     :)

If I were you I would get some new rearsets and converti bars for the 1098R.

If i have to make that choice, I would spend that 7K+ towards a SF S but only you can decide if the SF suits your needs. 

Good sounding advice Dr. Bob

Thanks.    :)

Dolph

Time will tell, asado .

Dolph    :)

Where the Rs feels like the chassis is coming unglued, the SF feels rock solid.

Sorry Bob, I just can't let that go.  Where is it that the RS chassis starts to "come Unglued"? I don't mean any disrespect here, but I've ridden mine just about as hard as one can be ridden and I've never felt that.  I'm sure that chassis could easily handle 150 rwhp and still not "come unglued".

How much HP does one "need" on a street bike, nekid or otherwise? Probably not 150.  Having said that I felt somehow cheated when the StreetFighter comes out with 5 HP less than the 1098, and doubly so considering that the 1198/s comes with 175 at the crank and around 170 at the rear wheel fully kitted.  This wouldn't bother most peeps, but when a friend pulls me coming our of a turn on a 165 rwhp well setup GSXR it just makes my head want to explode. I can deal with em in the turns, but sometimes there just no substitute for HP no matter how well you ride or how well your bike handles.  I'd like both.

Even if I could afford it, the difference between the SF and a S4RS is not quite enough to make me trade up. Don't get me wrong, I'd LOVE to have one.  I'd settle for my bike with the 1198 engine. 

Mark at the Duc shop is very good, but If I were going to spend the $$$ on an S4RS engine the heads would go to the flow genius in Canada at MBP and then get a careful blue print build with a lightened crank Ti valves and steel Carillo Rods.

God, this is dreaming. Thank goodness it cost nothing to dream.

I rode my bike the first time this morning after my recent Hip replacement - I'm just thankful to be able to ride at all.

LA

It is much the same as the way my 1990 GSXR 1100 felt great until I rode my 1999 R1.  After that the GSXR felt like the Flexible Flyer sled I had when I was a kid.  The SF will also let you put more power to the ground without flipping you over backwards.

Anything over 100 hp or so and it's all the rider.   You can have all the HP dyno charts you want, reading what you want, and if some superior rider goes riding with you, even on an old toaster tank BMW, he'll be able to hand your ass to you.   I see alot of people putting in cams, the expensive ECUs, the loudest pipes you can buy, real expensive grips, shocks, forks whatever, and a real good rider will hand it to them riding an old piece of sh_t.   

I went to Laguna yesterday and saw a guy on a 1098 on Ducati Island, firing up his bike, and just turning the throttle until the bike was just bouncing off the rev limiter, over and over and over.   I guess he was trying to impress someone or another.   Can anyone tell me a reason for him to be doing this, other than alerting me that that is a bike I will never buy from him?

He was excited

He was calling his girlfriend

He has ADD

He is hearing impaired

He wants a bigger motor

I second the guy 2 above....

Buddy of mine who I recall is a VERY good/accomplished rider.  Been around bike forever, done ALL of the schools.  Raced/etc...
Told me a story of when he was in the mountains running semi hard.  Some dude riding 2 up with a chick goes around him on the OUTSIDE of a corner....staying within the lane.

Catches up to the guy at a scenic site about 5 minutes up the road......leathers say "SHWANZ"....and it was.  :o [thumbsup] [laugh] [clap]

it's all about the rider man.

I vote for "It wasn't his bike."  [laugh]

Seriously, I'm just fine with ~100HP at the rear wheel on my S4, I can go plenty fast enough in a straight line for me.

The lighter weight I can go along with, for sure.

You'll get no arguments from me about " over 100 hp, it's the rider ." My balls are growing each time I go out and ride a stretch of tight,curvy road faster than the previous time .

I can't take my 1098 R out and run the twisties full bore with the power it's got now but I can run it at 1/2 to 3/5ths in the curves ...but when I hit a 3/4th mile straight I like to light it up. That's where I want the extra HP 'cause then I'll blow that old toaster into the weeds  and anything else I may come across.

It's possible that my S4Rs couldn't handle 160 RWHP. I'd like to find out !

The ergos of the S4Rs are about right. I know now if I quick shift it with no clutch the front end comes up in 2nd and 3rd so w, 160 RWHP it would be almost impossible to keep the bike down.

It's the same thing now w, the " R " in that any hard accelerating brings the front end straight up ! I've had the front end come up at 110  MPH in 4th and that was short shifting from third at 7000 rpms.

As far as the guy revving his 1098 ....he's an Idiot !

Dolph    :)

Yeah, but you have to find the rearsets you like that also go lower and maybe rearward of the stock position. Pardon the pun but that's a bit of a stretch.

  I can still ride the " R " ok it's the pain afterwards and the next two days that the new rear sets will hopefully help.

Dolph

great write up  [beer] i rode out to modesto ducati today and while getting new rubber i was checking out the streetfighter. definitely a modern looking motorcycle. one minute i think very cool and the next i just can't deal with it; especially the front light.

sat on it and was glad i didn't have a 1.5h ride home on it. the seat sucks. i do think i could get used to being tip toe, rather than flat footed as on my monster.

one other observation. while i was at the ducati shop this morning, i ran into a nice chap who had THE most beautiful ducati i have ever seen: 1098R with BST carbon wheels etc etc... he traded in a tricolor 1098s and another bike + cash (and then additional $$$$$$$$$$$ in mods) to get it.

"was it worth it?" isn't really a question that can be answered by anyone except the man (or woman) with a big grin on his face as he rides  [moto]


(http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e344/Motowheelscom/motowheels%20streetfighter/DSC02647.jpg)

I haven't owned an S4Rs, but I did get to ride one for about 12 days in Italy. I really liked the bike, but it did feel a lot heavier than my old 900. Also the brakes felt binary - off or on, not much inbetween. It handled well, but the tires were kind of cooked, so I didn't go crazy on it. And yeah, there's a long reach to the bars, and the pipe forced my right foot out until I found a place to hook my heel. Unfortunately I hooked my heel so that it touched the pipe and I melted a big U shaped chunk out of my boot.

I really though about getting one, but could never quite pull the trigger.

Fast forward a couple of years and I had a free afternoon and decided to drop by the dealer and see if I could take the SF for a spin on a weekday when the shop was less busy and less traffic on the road.  I got the SF S and rode it out a road I know well, and was instantly smitten. It is a very, very good bike.

Here's what I like:

The handling feels a lot lighter and more precise. Where the S4Rs felt big, fast, and heavy, the SF feels more nimble, and I think the power comes on a bit more gradually. On 1100s I've ridden, when you're off the gas the engine braking is pretty much like you just threw out an anchor, not so with the SF, which makes it easier for me to be smooth in the twisties.

Despite looking like a big heavy bike, when you get on it, it feels surprisingly compact, and really comfortable, from the ergos to the seat. I'm an old guy too, and my R6 was a pain in the neck (literally) and absolutely no fun at all on the street, at least for me. But I could see doing occasional track days on the SF.

The only negative ergonomic issue is the same dumb pipe placement as the S4Rs, which forces your heel out if you ride with the balls of your feet on the pegs. But now the heat shield means I can't cook my boot!

The braking on the SF S feels much more progressive than the S4Rs. I haven't had to do any panic stops, but I think I'd be less likely to lock the front on the SF.

As for power, I dunno. I'd have to take it to the track to offer any reasonable opinion. They're both very fast bikes. I think the S4Rs might have had more low end grunt, but once you get above 6K on the SF you'd better hang on and have some clear road ahead.

For the kind of riding I do, which is mostly very twisty mountain roads, the SF is perfect. I think if I was doing a lot of high speed, long distance work I'd miss a fairing.

On the question of the SF S vs. the regular SF, the Ohlins sold me. I guess I just really like their stuff ever since I upgraded my M900 many years ago. Interestingly, I thought I'd never use the traction control (DTC) but when I plugged in the data aquisition to my PC I discovered it kicks in way more than I ever thought. (I don't spend a lot of time looking at lights on my dash.) Now, I decided to set mine on a conservative setting, until I get really used to the additional HP (inadvertent wheelies will happen), so at a more aggressive setting it would engage less. But in actual use, the effect is subtle. For example, when you go over a painted line when you're on the gas and you get a momentary slip, the bike just seems to settle itself. No drama, nothing like hitting the rev limited, it just gets sorted. Nice.  Oh, and I like black too, which only is available in the S model, so there was that.

So yeah, I'm really really happy with the new bike, and hoping to keep my driving license for a long time.

My .02.  I have a "kitted" '07 S4rs, and have put about 8k miles on it.  I recently rode a SF, and here are my impressions:

I'm a bit biased towards the monster, as I feel it's one of the most gorgeous bikes ever made.  That said, to me, while the SF is certainly cool to look at, it's a little too busy and just not as captivating as the old bike.  The SF feels very tall in the saddle, like you're sitting on it rather than in it, and the rock hard seat pad is angled very high in the rear. I was constantly having to scoot myself back to keep my nuts from being crushed on the tank.  Luckily that same tank is wonderfully shaped and very narrow, and is easy to grip between your thighs.  I did really like the extra leg room (I'm 6'1".).  The bike is very nimble, and I immediately felt like my S4Rs was a truck in comparison.  I remedied the situation by extending out the rod on my rear suspension.  Now my bike handles more like the SF, but now I have to find a longer sidestand.  Oh well.  As for power, while the SF obviously has a lot of power, it builds very progressively.  Dare I say slowly?  The S4Rs with the full kit seems almost violent in comparison.  I came away from the SF a little let down in that regard.  All in all, a fun bike but I'm not about to trade up. Just doesn't quite light my fire like the S4Rs.    (http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3531/3774807239_b6bc7d23c5_o.jpg)(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3540/3774807129_fc9b5ea1a1_o.jpg)

That is a beautiful motorcycle!  I would ditch the Termi stickers though.

Much like a Norton commando or an XKE Jag. that bike is beautiful and will never, never get old.

Do you find yourself just standing and staring at it?

I've always said if ya don't, you bought the wrong bike. [bow_down]

Gorgeous example of a fine S4Rs.

It's hard to not like the ageless lines and beauty of this " Monster."

Dolph... :)

 [thumbsup]Thanks, Gents, it IS my dream bike, and yes, I do stop and stare every time I walk by.  I kinda feel like the Termi stickers are part of the deal.  I had them off for a while and had to put them back on.  I have an article from Cycle World, 07/99 on the wall of my garage with this beautiful yellow M900, with Termis.  That was the bike that really got me interested in Monsters, and that's the way, to me, a Monster should look.

All I can say is the SF is a great bike reading this makes me want one more.  Thanks for sharing.

Back in 1999, when I got on Mike Duzick's (MikMar Motor Service, Paxino, PA) personally set-up Ducati 851 (888-spec) from my stock 851 Superbike, his bike ruined the stock 851 for me.  I sold it shortly thereafter.

I also grew tired of superbikes on the road. On the track, yes, great, but not on the road… not for me.  I wanted a naked sportbike, but one that had full Superbike specs, not a diluted, heavier, detuned copy.

So, when Ducati came out with the S4Rs, with the (then) current Superbike motor, the Ohlins suspension front and rear, the superbike brake calipers and master cylinder, I bought one.

Not surprisingly, I soon found I wanted more.  The full Termi system went on, including the DP ECU and the airbox mods.  Over the next couple of years, Mike set up the suspension for me, I rode it at a couple of Summit Point track days, and remembered why a track bike or racebike is more fun to ride on the track than any streetbiek, no matter how well set up.

I installed taller risers and an MV Agusta Brutale handlebar.   Rizoma “rearsets” with the pegs in the most forward and lowest position actually gave me more leg room.  Lighter components replaced the plastics on the bike.  BST carbon fiber wheels were a dramatic improvement.  Donnie Unger of DucPond MotoSports installed high compression pistons, ported and polished the heads, gave it a 3-angle valve job, and degreed the cams.   Mike Duzick dialed the whole package in.  He rode it, and we decided we finally had a worthy successor to his old 888 Superbike, but in a standard package.

Last week I took the bike to my former race sponsor, Rick Beggs of RnR Cycles.  He weighed it and dyno-tuned it.  With a full tank of gas, the bike weighed 426 pounds and it put out 133 rwhp, still gaining power at the DP ECU’s 10,300 rpm redline.

I’ve sat on the Streetfighter.  The reach to the handlebar is shorter than that of a stock S4Rs.  It’s almost the exact same (for me) as on my modified bike.  I suppose one day I will ride one of the Streetfighters.  I asked Donnie, who has ridden my S4Rs and the Streetfighter if he thought I would go nuts riding the streetfighter, wishing I had one of them, instead of my S4Rs.  He just looked at me as though I was crazy, and said “Bub, no stock bike is ever going to come close to working like that S4Rs of yours.”    I believe him.

I think I'll keep my S4Rs!

Very informative post Tim.

Thanks for taking the time to give us all the details..

Dolph      :)

at the DP ECU’s 10,300 rpm redline.

I've been wondering what the redline really is on my bike.  Not that there's any reason to run past 10K, hell not even that most times (even when trying to haul ass) since it's such a short shifters dream.

I tried to find the redline several times on mine and the tach shows 11,000 with no hint of a miss or limit.  Like I said no need to do that, I just wanted to know.  Still pulling at 11k.

But, Jebus those StreetFighter S'es do look swell and kitted?  Make mine black. [thumbsup]

LA

Never had mine above 9,000 rpms so I'm not one to answer that one .....but I am going to take your word on that still pulling at 11,000 LA     :)

May be one of these days I'll push it up there !

Dolph         :)

Mine bounces off the limiter at 11,000, but I bet that's just indicated.   Wouldn't surprise me if the motor was actually spinning slower than that and the tach just doesn't read perfectly.   But unless there's a mechanical issue causing problems who cares?  I know where it points when the motor says stop it.

And since it's still pulling hard right to redline it's pretty easy to bounce the limiter at the track unless you're watching the tach pretty close.  9 or 10?  you two are missing all the fun.  ;D

Rick reported that my S4Rs's tach was indicating ~ 11,000 rpm when the rev limiter cut in.  Actual RPM according to the dyno's reading was 10,300.  The one time I took the Monster to the track, I had the same problem with the thing bouncing off the limiter regularly.

When the S4Rs hits the rev limiter , does it just drop some rpms or do you have to do anything other than shift ?

Dolph    :)

S4R is a more unique bike.  The Streetfighter just doesn't do it for me, and kinda looks like something Aprilia tossed off their drawing boards.

Then again, you're asking a question about a Monster on a Monster discussion board.

The question is about performance, not looks.

My bike is so over-the-top nuts that more performance would be a secondary consideration if I was ever thinking about replacing it.  If I could afford a Bimota DB6, I'd trade some surplus power for that hand built beauty.

Let me reiterate.

"The Streetfighter just doesn't do it for me".  That pertains to ALL aspects of the bike.

I then proceeded to describe its appearance. 

Hope that clears things up.  And yes, I've ridden both.

I now have 800 miles of seat time on the SF and have added the Termi slip on, race ECU, airfilter and 7 spoke carbon BST.  Power wise, its enough to scare me but the handling is insane with the added BST's.  Feels very light, turning is quick, precise, planted and smooth.  I liked almost everything about my previous S4Rs except for the weight (heavy and it feels heavy) and handling.  Its a night and day difference for me IMHO.

Side note:  Im comparing the SF to "my" S4Rs (non -kitted). 

Here is a side by side photo of my (old) Monster and (new) SF
(http://img200.imageshack.us/img200/9305/oldvnewcopy.th.jpg) (http://img200.imageshack.us/i/oldvnewcopy.jpg/)

RPM = ruins people's motors.  The more you turn, the faster stuff wears out (exponentially too).  Cam the thing to the moon, make 150-155hp, and kill the midrange, mileage, and logenvity. 

I'd take the 133rwhp with a fat midrange (like hi-comp pistons provide).  Hell, I can't ride my 55hp tard to the limit, so 130+ rwhp would suit me just fine.

Wanna build a monster....start with a busa, a gt30 and some alky.  650+ hp sky's the limit.

busa..............that's some kind of japanese 4 letter word for swine.

Dolph     :)