So I have been all blah blah blah about my jeep getting turned into a "real" jeep and my Rubicon trip
well
The build is complete and the jeep tested at the annual Jolly Jeeper's Back to Basics rally in Tillamook at Brown's Camp
Here she is all duded up with
(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2565/3734974577_1c5852effd.jpg?v=0)
Dana 44 front with 4.88's, Forged axles, and a Spool
Dana 44 rear with 4.88's, Forged axles, and a Lock-Right
4 1/2" Rubicon Express LA Kit
NV3550 Trans with a 4-1 granny
NP231 T-case with a 4-1 Terra-Low Kit and slip yoke eliminator
This gives me a 78.08-1 crawl ratio = bad ass
however
I quickly realized that I was a complete newb
I figure it is much the same feeling as the bad ass biker dewd who does his first track day or starts novice school
I have had a jeep since I was 17, starting with a CJ-7 and 2 TJ's
I have torn them all down and lifted 'em, replaced motors, blew up transmissions, everything...
or at least i thought everything until i got around these freaks
Now i realise i am merely a dabbler, a novice, detritus in the river that is jeep nutters
Here are a few rolling in early to the rally
(https://farm4.static.flickr.com/3428/3735772374_23364cffee.jpg?v=0)
A landy for Herm
(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2476/3734975847_9fe245a969.jpg?v=0)
Some terrain shots
(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2645/3735774908_a76e8f561f.jpg?v=0)
(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2536/3734977215_137a9f8663.jpg?v=0)
Staged for Obstacle
(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2605/3735777200_3414187862.jpg?v=0)
(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2433/3734979343_28e3ea7d5c.jpg?v=0)
(https://farm4.static.flickr.com/3506/3734978583_d64a67480c.jpg?v=0)
Some action shots...no action shots I was driving...with both hands...maybe somebody has some that will show up :-\
here is the Mighty TJ a mere 4hrs into the 2-day event with a fuel pump/regulator that took a shit... :'(
(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2652/3734980813_a8eab723e2.jpg?v=0)
and airing back up the trail boss who helped me limp her back to camp
(https://farm4.static.flickr.com/3435/3735778584_aeb022be6c.jpg?v=0)
Whole lotta work for a free t-shirt but I will redeem myself next year
8)
No spares available?
Cool [thumbsup]
I did the Rubicon 4 times on my Suzuki PE 250 back in the early 80's as a young kid....... I can't tell you how awesome it is....... & I can't tell you how many Jeeps I passed [cheeky]
On the first trip, we were all loadded up with sleeping bags & dehydrated food thinking we'd be spending the night in the wilderness.......well we picked a site with a swimming hole & it was quite popular...... the guys on the other side on the water had generators, lights, music, & even a dance floor :o All was good until one cool guy decided he wanted to fjord the swimming hole...... he picked a deep spot & sunk....... I thought it was funny until i saw the water change color....... no more swimmimh that day & we didn't sleep much either...... those lights on the dance floor were bright [laugh]
Quote from: NAKID on July 19, 2009, 05:57:26 PM
No spares available?
nope
biggest issue is it's all in the tank
and
there was some debate on if it was the pump, CPS, or Cat
trail fixing all three was not an option
Quote from: Gus Duc on July 19, 2009, 06:07:59 PM
Cool [thumbsup]
I did the Rubicon 4 times on my Suzuki PE 250 back in the early 80's as a young kid....... I can't tell you how awesome it is....... & I can't tell you how many Jeeps I passed [cheeky]
On the first trip, we were all loadded up with sleeping bags & dehydrated food thinking we'd be spending the night in the wilderness.......well we picked a site with a swimming hole & it was quite popular...... the guys on the other side on the water had generators, lights, music, & even a dance floor :o All was good until one cool guy decided he wanted to fjord the swimming hole...... he picked a deep spot & sunk....... I thought it was funny until i saw the water change color....... no more swimmimh that day & we didn't sleep much either...... those lights on the dance floor were bright [laugh]
wow
I think those days on the rubi are long done
or
at least I hope so
Mom:
What do you think of the JK?
Why you always breaking shit?
Well, at least with the fuel pump going, you didn't get a chance to get yourself stuck in yet another ditch :-*
Quote from: Got Duc on July 19, 2009, 06:29:24 PM
Mom:
What do you think of the JK?
Aesthetically...it is too busy
too much like a car
The main drawback is that you lose the 4.0 I-6 and get a V-6
However
you do get a 6-speed tranny
but it doesn't have the 4-1 first gear like the late model TJ's with the 5-speed NV3550
also
with the loss of the tub I don't think it will be as durable in the long run
built though they do look kickass and the added wheel-base of the 4-door is a nice bonus
Quote from: MrIncredible on July 19, 2009, 10:30:13 PM
Well, at least with the fuel pump going, you didn't get a chance to get yourself stuck in yet another ditch :-*
damn kids
no respect for their elders
Quote from: Mother on July 19, 2009, 11:23:50 PM
damn kids
no respect for their elders
tell me about it ;)
Any flatfenders at the rally?
only one FJ??
Quote from: Mother on July 19, 2009, 11:21:37 PM
The main drawback is that you lose the 4.0 I-6 and get a V-6
with the loss of the tub I don't think it will be as durable in the long run
+1
At first I thought I'd love one, but these two things give me pause.
Then again, I was never even as hardcore as Mom when I had my TJs....
Bet the FJ-40 didn't crap out ;D
Quote from: Rameses on July 20, 2009, 02:05:04 AM
Any flatfenders at the rally?
almost all of them
but as for
real ones
There was one really nice 2A but i didn't have my camera when i saw it
and then this 3A...it's got a blown 225 buick V6
(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2488/3738285263_1a7d0cf016.jpg?v=0)
Quote from: herm on July 20, 2009, 03:14:46 AM
only one FJ??
there were 2 actually
Quote from: yuu on July 20, 2009, 04:56:56 AM
Bet the FJ-40 didn't crap out ;D
and one did
it came back in pretty bad shape
so (http://www.r2clan.com/modules/Forums/images/smiles/razz.gif)
Did you see any of the crazy rock crawl rigs? The one time I was at the Rubicon there was a flat fender that someone had put full size running gear on...so the tires stuck out wider than the whole body. It was pretty crazy looking, and apparently a beast.
I've only been up there once, but it's pretty cool. My old roomate was from Placerville and him and his buddies were big into wheelin' (as they called it). He had a '73 Scout II with a Chevy 350, 35s, detroit in back and air up front...and a bunch of other crap. All his buddies had tricked out Land Cruisers with 350s. They all drove them there, so not as crazy as some of the trailered stuff. Good times! [thumbsup] I can't believe the shit we drove over! :o
Get an FJ.
My best friends dad has one he bought brand new......still drives it-every single year-up the steepest hill I've ever been up in a vehicle to our hunting spot.
Jeeps are pretty cool too
.....for 16 year old girls ;D
Quote from: Autostrada Pilot on July 20, 2009, 07:55:12 AM
Get an FJ.
My best friends dad has one he bought brand new......still drives it-every single year-up the steepest hill I've ever been up in a vehicle to our hunting spot.
Jeeps are pretty cool too
.....for 16 year old girls ;D
Oh hell no!! You didn't just go there! Too bad Toyota couldn't come up with something cool by itself and had to copy Jeep.
Quote from: Ducaholic on July 20, 2009, 08:05:41 AM
Oh hell no!! You didn't just go there! Too bad Toyota couldn't come up with something cool by itself and had to copy Jeep.
The FJ-40 was GM's entry in the competion when the millitary switched from the CJ2 based jeep to the CJ5 version. Jeep won. GM sat on the design. Toyota brought the rights to the design. When they converted from english to metric they up sized, it was already designed for millitary use and they made it even beefery. On the "F" engine a lot of chevy 235-6 parts bolt right on.
I use to have a 65 FJ-40. make the beast with two backsing tank. [thumbsup]
Quote from: Ducaholic on July 20, 2009, 08:05:41 AM
Too bad Toyota couldn't come up with something cool by itself and had to copy Jeep.
[laugh]
[clap]
Quote from: Triple J on July 20, 2009, 07:33:59 AM
Did you see any of the crazy rock crawl rigs? The one time I was at the Rubicon there was a flat fender that someone had put full size running gear on...so the tires stuck out wider than the whole body. It was pretty crazy looking, and apparently a beast.
I've only been up there once, but it's pretty cool. My old roomate was from Placerville and him and his buddies were big into wheelin' (as they called it). He had a '73 Scout II with a Chevy 350, 35s, detroit in back and air up front...and a bunch of other crap. All his buddies had tricked out Land Cruisers with 350s. They all drove them there, so not as crazy as some of the trailered stuff. Good times! [thumbsup] I can't believe the shit we drove over! :o
There was one rock buggy there
not part of the rally
it was causing havoc at one point
going up some of the really hairy stuff...in reverse
I have always found the Jeep vs. FJ-40 argument high-larious
first off
when you get into built rigs
be they either Jeeps or yotas
there is usually very little left in them that is from either manufacturer
Take a look at mine
it doesn't have a stock Jeep part in it from the transmission to the ground
and as far as a stock comparison goes
the two designs are damn near identical
the only real discussion lies in the bravado of branding
and all it comes down to is metal quality and configuration
in my opinion Jeeps tech skyrocketed when Chrysler got ahold of them from AMC
but
their simplicity died in that exchange and ruined one of the selling points of a Jeep
Toyotas use much higher quality metal and thus their axles are outstanding
but they also quit using the 22r which killed a rock solid little motor in favor of a higher output pile of shit
(which Jeep did recently by shitcanning the 4.2/4.0)
and
they use birfields which as brilliant as Toyota is
makes them a liability in most moderate to high stress crawling scenarios
so
in my recently humbled wheelin opinion
the argument between the two is really moot
especially since (unfortunately) you cant get a modern, or even sorta modern FJ40.
note to randimus: emphasis on the 40. the FJ cruiser is no an adequate replacement
i would hope your disco'd as well
you ain't going nowhere with a swaybar hooked up
Also you have to add the Defender 90 /110 to your mix of capable vehicles
yes i am also a jeeper
Quote from: ute on July 20, 2009, 05:08:14 PM
i would hope your disco'd as well
you ain't going nowhere with a swaybar hooked up
Also you have to add the Defender 90 /110 to your mix of capable vehicles
yes i am also a jeeper
What's a swaybar?
defender 90 = good rig, but rare as fleas on a snake here in the US
Quote from: herm on July 20, 2009, 04:54:03 PM
especially since (unfortunately) you cant get a modern, or even sorta modern FJ40.
note to randimus: emphasis on the 40. the FJ cruiser is no an adequate replacement
08' model
(http://www.funrace4x4.com/fotos/DSC_8229.jpg)
(http://www.funrace4x4.com/fotos/DSC_8402.jpg)
Mom, too bad to hear about your misfortune, I'm sure next time will be better. Maybe when I finally get a new rig I'll go out there as well [thumbsup]
Quote from: ute on July 20, 2009, 05:08:14 PM
i would hope your disco'd as well
you ain't going nowhere with a swaybar hooked up
Also you have to add the Defender 90 /110 to your mix of capable vehicles
yes i am also a jeeper
bah
i don't even run them on the street
well that is partly true
I run the rear on the street but the front is DC'ed all the time
it reminds me to not drive it like a car
Quote from: sno_duc on July 20, 2009, 08:46:16 AM
The FJ-40 was GM's entry in the competion when the millitary switched from the CJ2 based jeep to the CJ5 version.
I'll assume you're talking about CJ-2A's since there were less than 50 CJ-2's built, and there was never a military Jeep based on the CJ-2 or 2A.
The CJ-2 (and 2A) was based on the MB.
The M38 was based on the CJ-3A though.
And the CJ5 was based on the M38A1, not the other way around.
Quote from: El Matador on July 20, 2009, 08:39:46 PM
08' model
guess i should have qualified my statement by adding available in the US.
Quote from: herm on July 21, 2009, 05:22:09 AM
guess i should have qualified my statement by adding available in the US.
;)
Quote from: El Matador on July 20, 2009, 08:39:46 PM
08' model
(http://www.funrace4x4.com/fotos/DSC_8402.jpg)
If you have 2 tires off the ground
and
they are on the same axle
you are doing it
wrong
What are those by the way?
they are yotas right?
they look like yotas based on the front axle
what do they come with stock?
Quote from: Mother on July 21, 2009, 09:41:22 AM
If you have 2 tires off the ground
and
they are on the same axle
you are doing it
wrong
OR....
You're just having a really good time...
Quote from: Mother on July 21, 2009, 09:41:22 AM
If you have 2 tires off the ground
and
they are on the same axle
you are doing it
wrong
We dont crawl up rocks where I'm from, it's all a mix of speed and technique. And there is no way you can get up that riverbed without getting enough speed to wheelie. unless you winch. Which makes you lose points.
Those are Yotas indeed. They are the successors to the fj40. They are called the Machos.
For some reason I've never been able to put my finger on, I've never liked the little jeeps. Yes, I've spent time in them, and yes, they're fun, but.....I find once one is done offroading them, they aren't useful for a lot of thing things I would need. I don't think they're adequate tow vehicles, they got no bed to speak of, and dangit, if I wanted something that rode like it just came off a WW2 assembly line, I'd buy something that came off a WW2 assembly line.
Quote from: MrIncredible on July 21, 2009, 09:57:58 AM
For some reason I've never been able to put my finger on, I've never liked the little jeeps. Yes, I've spent time in them, and yes, they're fun, but.....I find once one is done offroading them, they aren't useful for a lot of thing things I would need. I don't think they're adequate tow vehicles, they got no bed to speak of, and dangit, if I wanted something that rode like it just came off a WW2 assembly line, I'd buy something that came off a WW2 assembly line.
jeep vs. logically rational folk
oil and water
Quote from: Mother on July 21, 2009, 10:03:42 AM
jeep vs. logically rational folk
oil and water
I prefer the slow as shit big jeeps.
Quote from: MrIncredible on July 21, 2009, 10:08:53 AM
I prefer the slow as shit big jeeps.
those are trucks
made by Jeep
a jeep is a golf cart with big tires
(http://www.brian894x4.com/images/VikSeehraBJ74b.jpg)
i think they are bj models, kind of like this one. never liked the square body as much
Looks a lot like a dodge raider
Quote from: herm on July 21, 2009, 11:24:59 AM
i think they are bj models, kind of like this one. never liked the square body as much
i've always liked BJs...
(receiving, not giving)
Hmmmmmmmmmmm BJ's ...lol
many Samurai's in the states ? lots up here one of the best offroader i have ever owned
a combination of a jeep body and toyota mechanicals
(http://z.about.com/d/4wheeldrive/1/0/I/R/1/Kevin_AL_92SuzSam_RR.jpg)
(http://z.about.com/d/4wheeldrive/1/0/8/I/1/Dustin_IA_87SuzSam_RR.jpg)
We called those Suzuki Suicides because of their propensity to roll over...
Quote from: derby on July 21, 2009, 02:16:12 PM
i've always liked BJs...
(receiving, not giving)
That's what they all say... ;D
Quote from: Mother on July 21, 2009, 01:51:54 PM
Looks a lot like a dodge raider
or a short montero.......
regardless, not a great replacement for the fj40 (not that toyota has gotten it right since...)
Quote from: Rameses on July 20, 2009, 10:21:15 PMI'll assume you're talking about CJ-2A's since there were less than 50 CJ-2's built, and there was never a military Jeep based on the CJ-2 or 2A.The CJ-2 (and 2A) was based on the MB.The M38 was based on the CJ-3A though.And the CJ5 was based on the M38A1, not the other way around.
You are correct, I took liberties because most people are familiar with flat fender jeeps ( CJ-2: flathead 4, CJ-2A: flathead 4, CJ-3A: F-head 4) and CJ-5 jeeps, not so much the millitary jeep that sired the Cillivian Jeep.
Quote from: sno_duc on July 21, 2009, 06:04:22 PM
You are correct, I took liberties because most people are familiar with flat fender jeeps ( CJ-2: flathead 4, CJ-2A: flathead 4, CJ-3A: F-head 4) and CJ-5 jeeps, not so much the millitary jeep that sired the Cillivian Jeep.
No, the CJ-3A was also a flathead.
The hurricane was used in the 3B's
thus the need for the high hood
Quote from: Mother on July 22, 2009, 12:23:26 AM
The hurricane was used in the 3B's
thus the need for the high hood
Egg-zachary.
Ugliest Jeep ever.
CJ-2, CJ-2A, and CJ-3A all used the 134ci L-head with a rocking 60hp
CJ-3B used the 134ci F-head with a rocking 72hp
Then it gets crazy complicated until about 1981 I think
where you get the 258/151 options only
then in 1995/1996 it gets IZ_ again with all the chrysler V-8 options in the various jeep models
My wife and I just went to look at the new 4 door Rubicon. $36,000 !!!!! WTF!!! Sticker shock, and one of the many reasons I love my wife is the words that she spoke next:
Wife: "Im not spending that much for any Jeep."
Dealer: "Well,This one...(cut off by my wife)
Wife: For ten thousand less we will go buy a old used Hummer H1
Me: Hells Yes!
Dealer: H1's are sweet
Me: Lets go for a test drive anyway.
Wife: only if he does not come with us.
Dealer: Let me get you the keys.
Wife: lets rag this sucker out.
Me: Hells Yes!
36K for a Wrangler? WTF?
Quote from: NAKID on July 22, 2009, 11:56:50 AM
36K for a Wrangler? WTF?
Meh
for a Jeep no
a Rubicon...maybe
there are a lot of cool parts on a Rubi but I wouldn"t shell out 40+ after financing for em
Not when you can get a 5 year old Tj for 10 and put 20K in really cool shit in it and still be way under that mark
Quote from: Mother on July 22, 2009, 12:11:32 PM
Not when you can get a 5 year old Tj for 10 and put 20K in really cool shit in it and still be way under that mark
Bingo...
Quote from: Mother on July 22, 2009, 12:11:32 PM
Meh
for a Jeep no
a Rubicon...maybe
there are a lot of cool parts on a Rubi but I wouldn"t shell out 40+ after financing for em
Not when you can get a 5 year old Tj for 10 and put 20K in really cool shit in it and still be way under that mark
Chrysler doesnt build real Jeeps anymore. As soon as they came out with the plastic grill and everything else the true Jeep died. Very sad.
Quote from: Mother on July 22, 2009, 10:17:22 AM
CJ-2, CJ-2A, and CJ-3A all used the 134ci L-head with a rocking 60hp
CJ-3B used the 134ci F-head with a rocking 72hp
Then it gets crazy complicated until about 1981 I think
where you get the 258/151 options only
then in 1995/1996 it gets IZ_ again with all the chrysler V-8 options in the various jeep models
I think the 60hp claim might've been a little optimistic. [laugh]
The things weren't made for racing though, and I've never encountered a situation where it wasn't enough.
A buddy and I had a 3A a few years back. Body would bounce on the frame everytime you would hit a bump and the right front axle would lock up at times all on its own because the carden joint was worn out and would bind. This thing lived at his parents ranch. We would beat the crap out of this thing with no regard for our safety. One time we had this thing wound out coming through one of the hay fields, we were doing about 45 to 50 and that axle locked up solid. Good times.
Quote from: Mother on July 22, 2009, 12:11:32 PM
Meh
for a Jeep no
a Rubicon...maybe
there are a lot of cool parts on a Rubi but I wouldn"t shell out 40+ after financing for em
Not when you can get a 5 year old Tj for 10 and put 20K in really cool shit in it and still be way under that mark
I said rubicon. But still, no way in hell Im paying that. Id be pissed if they were asking more than 25K. I could buy a base model and make my own for less.
Quote from: ducrider45 on July 23, 2009, 07:17:32 PM
I said rubicon. But still, no way in hell Im paying that. Id be pissed if they were asking more than 25K. I could buy a base model and make my own for less.
Just because it has a rubicon sticker doesn't give it the right to call itself a Jeep.
for the amount of money you pay extra for the Rubi you would think chrysler would have contracted with ARB and maybe Curry for the hopped up 44's instead you get POS electric actuated lockers and an axle that calls itself a Dana 44 but uses Dana 30 outers
I got it out for a about 4 hrs last Sunday with a nicely done Sami and a radically converted 4runner (yes it used to be a 4runner)
once again I was the camera man most of the time
but managed to get a couple shots
This is right before I laid the windshield frame into that tree on the passenger side
(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2627/3768932733_3edec5d696.jpg)
and this is right before I decided the right rear fender flare needed to be taken off
(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2498/3768932047_f5ff81337c.jpg)
The 4runner coming up the same spot
(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2625/3768934363_2ae9b4bbe6.jpg)
and the Sami exceeding available droop
(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2604/3769733290_97e2b46b7e.jpg)
Quote from: Eeyore on July 23, 2009, 08:45:42 PM
for the amount of money you pay extra for the Rubi you would think chrysler would have contracted with ARB and maybe Curry for the hopped up 44's instead you get POS electric actuated lockers and an axle that calls itself a Dana 44 but uses Dana 30 outers
So true, except it would make the Rubis even more expensive.
Quote from: Eeyore on July 29, 2009, 09:45:44 AM
I got it out for a about 4 hrs last Sunday with a nicely done Sami and a radically converted 4runner (yes it used to be a 4runner)
once again I was the camera man most of the time
but managed to get a couple shots
This is right before I laid the windshield frame into that tree on the passenger side
(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2627/3768932733_3edec5d696.jpg)
and this is right before I decided the right rear fender flare needed to be taken off
(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2498/3768932047_f5ff81337c.jpg)
The 4runner coming up the same spot
(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2625/3768934363_2ae9b4bbe6.jpg)
and the Sami exceeding available droop
(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2604/3769733290_97e2b46b7e.jpg)
Cool pics. I would never own a Sami but they sure are fun to watch.
That one is pretty cool
it's got yota axles
with a spool and a lock-right
runs on Propane
and
the kid who owns it is a damn encyclopedia of 4x4 knowledge
I really thought I knew a lot about wheelin and 4x4's until I met this group
I'm seriously humbled
Ok
I am at my wits end (yeah yeah it was a short trip)
My jeep wont run for shit
It fires right up
but
Once it hits operating temp (about 210)
It goes into Limp Mode
and throws these codes P0031 P0051 P0132 P0152 P1494
Now I fixed P1494, I had a pair of ruptured return lines
P0031 and P0051 are O2 sensor heater failure codes
P0132 and P00152 are upstream Bank 1 and Bank 2 02 sensor out of range codes
in summary the mixture was rich and causing the computer to radically compensate and create a lean mix
I replaced all 4 O2 sensors
No joy
so If I unplug the O2 sensors and run it open loop it runs just fine but I get about 12MPG
and
I melted the element right out of the Cat
(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2562/3788401863_8ae97ba533.jpg)
Now I've broken them and i've plugged them up
but
this is the first one I've melted :o
any ideas?
also
I mentioned I replaced both return fuel lines
and
the O2 sensors
I also replaced the CPS
Spark Plugs
Put a K&N in it
New Muffler
New Header off of a Cherokee
and
checked the fuel pump, it is holding steady at 50PSI
The only thing I can think of is when the new header went in it removed the dual exhaust manifolds into 2 mini cats then into regular cat
but
the O2 sensors retained there original location so the only change would be a bit of increased flow from the header
and
maybe a loss of back pressure from the loss of the mini cats?
but I always thought O2 sensors acted essentially like monitored pyrometers and flow wasn't an issue
just heat range
Bah I'm talking myself in circles
I'm confused
back in my old car lot days.... I caught a jeep on fire. I/we had no idea the cat was plugged, and while trying to get it to run (running like it had fouled plugs), the cat got so hot it started melting everything near it which then caused the carpet inside to flame up.
the mechanic who eventually fixed everything said the cat was fouled because the person who owned it prior to trading it in, had been running the wrong type of plugs, causing it to run rich.
Hhmm
How do the plugs factor in? ....cuz I did put some fancy plugs in it
I'm trying to logic this together in my pee brain
and
I don't understand how the temp range on the plug would effect A/F ratio
are they monitored by the fuel computer?
Quote from: Eeyore on August 04, 2009, 03:17:25 PM
Hhmm
How do the plugs factor in? ....cuz I did put some fancy plugs in it
I'm trying to logic this together in my pee brain
and
I don't understand how the temp range on the plug would effect A/F ratio
are they monitored by the fuel computer?
I dunno. All I remember was that he said something about the wrong plugs, and that over time, they had done damage to the cat. Whenever I would start the thing, it would run like the plugs were fouled, and then it would clear itself out as it warmed up. Then one day after having sat on the lot for about a week w/o being run, I got in it to move it. It ran real bad, so I put my foot into it hoping to clear it out. It caught fire before if it started running better [laugh]