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Title: is there a painter in the house? Post by: cbartlett419 on August 05, 2009, 05:30:15 AM Will traditional bondo effectively adhere to a painted surface? I have read some yes and mostly no. I have found some other 3m products that describe my application, but they are obscure and more expensive than traditional bondo from O'reily's. anybody have a thought?
Title: Re: is there a painter in the house? Post by: red baron on August 05, 2009, 05:37:00 AM body filler requires mechanical adhesion (a sandscratch) you sand where you want it to stick and it most likely will.
make sure to clean the surface BEFORE you start sanding. I use 80 grit. there is a problem though, due to the dissimilar materials, after painting you may see where the paint meets the filler (also known as the featheredge). if the featheredge is treated right this can be avoided but takes some time to master the technique. so yes it will stick to a properly prepared surface. Title: Re: is there a painter in the house? Post by: cbartlett419 on August 05, 2009, 08:42:14 AM fixing featheredge just requires small steps in sanding, yeah? like 80 to 120 to 220 to 320 to 400
Title: Re: is there a painter in the house? Post by: Popeye the Sailor on August 05, 2009, 09:04:38 AM fixing featheredge just requires small steps in sanding, yeah? like 80 to 120 to 220 to 320 to 400 He can't tell you. It's a trade secret. Title: Re: is there a painter in the house? Post by: red baron on August 05, 2009, 09:30:22 AM He can't tell you. It's a trade secret. Nah, I just don't like filler on paint. Title: Re: is there a painter in the house? Post by: Speedbag on August 05, 2009, 01:30:00 PM Filler over paint = bad. Unless you like bondoroids popping off at random.
Down to bare metal it must go. Title: Re: is there a painter in the house? Post by: ducpainter on August 05, 2009, 02:46:13 PM Nah, I just don't like filler on paint. except... on epoxy after an overnight dry... and a sand scratch. Title: Re: is there a painter in the house? Post by: cbartlett419 on August 05, 2009, 04:17:53 PM [bang] what about this stuff:
(http://multimedia.3m.com/mws/mediawebserver?66666UuZjcFSLXTtNXM2LxfyEV76EbHSHVs6EVs6E666666--) or (http://multimedia.3m.com/mws/mediawebserver?66666UuZjcFSLXTtNXM2M8&6EV76EbHSHVs6EVs6E666666--) Title: Re: is there a painter in the house? Post by: mojo on August 05, 2009, 05:53:40 PM I really like Evercoat Rage filler. If you know anyone from Finishmaster, they have a filler in their Smart line of products. It's exactly the same as Rage, but it just has a different label. It spreads and sands really nice and feathers out excellent. As far as putting it over paint, it's only when it blends into the featheredge of the paint. I think I've liked all of the Evercoat fillers with the exception of the Z-Grip. They make some really nice products.
If the 3M filler you found is the ZEBRA filler, I tried it, and it sands like concrete. Title: Re: is there a painter in the house? Post by: Big Troubled Bear on August 05, 2009, 11:17:23 PM The only right way is to take it down to metal, and I think betweem myself Trouble and the master DP, there are consensus [thumbsup]
Title: Re: is there a painter in the house? Post by: ducpainter on August 06, 2009, 02:21:06 AM I really like Evercoat Rage filler. If you know anyone from Finishmaster, they have a filler in their Smart line of products. It's exactly the same as Rage, but it just has a different label. It spreads and sands really nice and feathers out excellent. As far as putting it over paint, it's only when it blends into the featheredge of the paint. I think I've liked all of the Evercoat fillers with the exception of the Z-Grip. They make some really nice products. You should try the rage gold...If the 3M filler you found is the ZEBRA filler, I tried it, and it sands like concrete. even better. Title: Re: is there a painter in the house? Post by: cbartlett419 on August 06, 2009, 03:41:21 AM ugh....to the metal it goes, thanks for the insight guys. [thumbsup]
Title: Re: is there a painter in the house? Post by: mojo on August 06, 2009, 08:35:34 AM Quote You should try the rage gold... Don't remember if I've ever tried the gold, but I have used the Rage Xtreme and that is a little too runny for my taste.even better. Title: Re: is there a painter in the house? Post by: red baron on August 06, 2009, 08:46:23 AM Don't remember if I've ever tried the gold, but I have used the Rage Xtreme and that is a little too runny for my taste. Get the metal straight first. [cheeky] Title: Re: is there a painter in the house? Post by: mojo on August 06, 2009, 08:53:15 AM Quote Get the metal straight first. [laugh] Whenever I used Xtreme on a large area of a vertical panel (door or quarter panel), it seems to sag a bit. On vertical panels like hoods, it works great, and I'm sure it works just as good on smaller parts like moto tanks.Title: Re: is there a painter in the house? Post by: red baron on August 06, 2009, 09:19:35 AM Anybody try this yet?
http://solutions.3m.com/wps/portal/3M/en_US/3MAutomotive/Aftermarket/Products/Featured_Products/DMS/ (http://solutions.3m.com/wps/portal/3M/en_US/3MAutomotive/Aftermarket/Products/Featured_Products/DMS/) Title: Re: is there a painter in the house? Post by: Langanobob on August 06, 2009, 02:46:13 PM Quote Get the metal straight first. cheeky +1. I've been having visions of guys mixing up wads of Bondo the size of watermelons. ;D Prep is the most important part and poorly prepped bare metal isn't as good a base as well prepped paint. And a thick coat of filler on any base is not good. Fix the metal first! And the whole topic of the fine points of applying Bondo is kind of typical of the dumbing down of America. If you really want to do it right, get the metal as perfect as you can, then break out the torch, flux and solder [cheeky] Title: Re: is there a painter in the house? Post by: ducpainter on August 06, 2009, 02:57:18 PM Anybody try this yet? What's it cost? [laugh]http://solutions.3m.com/wps/portal/3M/en_US/3MAutomotive/Aftermarket/Products/Featured_Products/DMS/ (http://solutions.3m.com/wps/portal/3M/en_US/3MAutomotive/Aftermarket/Products/Featured_Products/DMS/) Title: Re: is there a painter in the house? Post by: red baron on August 06, 2009, 03:16:41 PM What's it cost? [laugh] .[laugh] good luck finding lead or flux in California :P Title: Re: is there a painter in the house? Post by: mojo on August 06, 2009, 03:21:02 PM We had a demo at our shop a while back. I think it's a really good idea. It basically eliminates waste and pinholes because the tubes are sealed from the outside air and there is no mixing. It sands and spreads similar to my beloved Rage, maybe sands a tad harder. Because there's almost no pinholes, you can just about eliminate finishing putty. Can't remember the price...I think it's about $30 a tube, so it's not cheap, but our 3M rep was going to give the shop the applicator gun for free if we switched, but the boss wasn't interested.
Title: Re: is there a painter in the house? Post by: ducpainter on August 06, 2009, 03:46:49 PM We had a demo at our shop a while back. I think it's a really good idea. It basically eliminates waste and pinholes because the tubes are sealed from the outside air and there is no mixing. It sands and spreads similar to my beloved Rage, maybe sands a tad harder. Because there's almost no pinholes, you can just about eliminate finishing putty. Can't remember the price...I think it's about $30 a tube, so it's not cheap, but our 3M rep was going to give the shop the applicator gun for free if we switched, but the boss wasn't interested. There are some things you have to do in body work... the biggie is to not skip any steps. Finishing putty is inevitable. ;D Title: Re: is there a painter in the house? Post by: mojo on August 06, 2009, 03:56:13 PM Quote Finishing putty is inevitable. In our demo, we did sand the filler down smooth and there were no pinholes. I'm sure that if you applied it thicker, or just gobbed it on the substrate, you would probably get pinholes. There have been times where I needed just a light coat of Rage, and not needed finishing putty. It's a hard habit to break (applying putty over mud), but it is possible.These new fillers are getting better in every way, and I think bodymen just need to keep an open mind when it comes to new products because they are really being designed to make us more productive without sacrificing quality. Title: Re: is there a painter in the house? Post by: ducpainter on August 06, 2009, 04:13:25 PM In our demo, we did sand the filler down smooth and there were no pinholes. I'm sure that if you applied it thicker, or just gobbed it on the substrate, you would probably get pinholes. There have been times where I needed just a light coat of Rage, and not needed finishing putty. It's a hard habit to break (applying putty over mud), but it is possible. I'll buy everything you said...These new fillers are getting better in every way, and I think bodymen just need to keep an open mind when it comes to new products because they are really being designed to make us more productive without sacrificing quality. as long as you don't put filler over cured paint. ;D Title: Re: is there a painter in the house? Post by: mojo on August 06, 2009, 04:15:44 PM Quote as long as you don't put filler over cured paint. Don't worry... it'll never happen ;)I'm not saying this 3M product is the best thing ever (I only used it on a small piece of sheetmetal in the demo). But, there are a lot of things that made an acceptable repair 5 years ago that you wouldn't do now. It's just crazy how fast things change. Title: Re: is there a painter in the house? Post by: ducpainter on August 06, 2009, 05:10:35 PM Don't worry... it'll never happen ;) again, I can't disagree.I'm not saying this 3M product is the best thing ever (I only used it on a small piece of sheetmetal in the demo). But, there are a lot of things that made an acceptable repair 5 years ago that you wouldn't do now. It's just crazy how fast things change. I would add that the basic process hasn't changed much at all, and all these new products are just trying to make it faster. There's lot's of ways to skin a cat. ;D even if they're old ways. Title: Re: is there a painter in the house? Post by: red baron on August 06, 2009, 05:39:49 PM Still watchin B&W TV?
Still mailing letters to your friends and family via USPO? Still liking that minijet 4? [cheeky] I think I should go now. ;D Title: Re: is there a painter in the house? Post by: Grampa on August 06, 2009, 05:46:28 PM I gots a lot of filler..... anybody need to borrow some?
Title: Re: is there a painter in the house? Post by: ducpainter on August 07, 2009, 02:12:30 AM Still liking that minijet 4? [cheeky] I think I should go now. ;D Title: Re: is there a painter in the house? Post by: Big Troubled Bear on August 07, 2009, 02:17:32 AM Someone dishing out free minijets ;D
Title: Re: is there a painter in the house? Post by: ducpainter on August 07, 2009, 02:25:44 AM Someone dishing out free minijets ;D not free... >:( [laugh]he's like a pusher... gets you to try these things and then reels you in. ;) Title: Re: is there a painter in the house? Post by: red baron on August 07, 2009, 05:36:26 AM More like an enabler.
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