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Title: monster frame brace Post by: truckinduc on August 06, 2009, 11:51:07 AM As you may or may not know the 1st gen monster frame is based off the 851 Superbike. The fame and rear suspension are near identical.
Here is the question. For the monster Ducati for some reason removed a gusset or tube brace. Im not sure why they did it but it happened. Does anyone know about this brace? Im looking to add it back to my frame. Thanks everyone (http://i28.tinypic.com/290zprt.jpg) Title: Re: monster frame brace Post by: NAKID on August 06, 2009, 12:27:12 PM I think the more interesting thing is why you have a Buell suspension...
Title: Re: monster frame brace Post by: truckinduc on August 06, 2009, 12:37:25 PM Buell front wheel and brake. Honda RC51 forks
Title: Re: monster frame brace Post by: kopfjäger on August 06, 2009, 12:44:01 PM Buell front wheel and brake. Honda RC51 forks I love that rotor. [thumbsup] Title: Re: monster frame brace Post by: NAKID on August 06, 2009, 12:51:28 PM Ahhhh...
Title: Re: monster frame brace Post by: truckinduc on August 06, 2009, 02:08:54 PM out back will be a chromoly trellis swinger with unit pro link style linkage and a fox twin clicker shock.
Im going for great suspension on this bike. Thus why I would like to stiffen up the front end slightly. I felt there was too much frame flex before. Anyone know about this brace? Title: Re: monster frame brace Post by: truckinduc on August 06, 2009, 02:10:50 PM even good frame pictures would help. But I cant seem to find any
Title: Re: monster frame brace Post by: mookieo2 on August 06, 2009, 02:24:06 PM Is this the bike you fabbed a new shock brace and location on the swingarm a while back?
Title: Re: monster frame brace Post by: truckinduc on August 06, 2009, 02:28:00 PM yes it is
Title: Re: monster frame brace Post by: weemonster on August 06, 2009, 03:08:34 PM the brace was removed to accomodate the airbox
Title: Re: monster frame brace Post by: Travman on August 06, 2009, 04:20:28 PM I love it when people combine parts from different bike makers. I'm sure some will think it is sacrilegious to put Buell parts on a Ducati. Screw 'em.
Title: Re: monster frame brace Post by: NAKID on August 06, 2009, 04:21:49 PM No, I think those rims and those rims are cool...
Title: Re: monster frame brace Post by: Magnus on August 06, 2009, 04:51:01 PM i don't know, this s4 has plenty of frame gussets...
(http://i249.photobucket.com/albums/gg216/mikesixtysix/blackfog/Final1024_2.jpg) Title: Re: monster frame brace Post by: Norm on August 06, 2009, 05:19:34 PM I know the brace you're referring to but I think with good motor mounts, it's redundent. I would gusset both sides of the head tube for better front end feedback and use Nichols motor mount bolts.
BTW, nice project. Title: Re: monster frame brace Post by: truckinduc on August 06, 2009, 05:31:01 PM Well, I plan on gusseting the head tube more. Im just interested in the layout of the brace.
I just discovered a crack in the cast aluminum engine mount today. Ill have to repair that and keep an eye on it. Im connecting the swingarm pivot to the rear engine mount and gusseting it also. I plan on turning something on the lathe like the Nichols engine mounts. Title: Re: monster frame brace Post by: bigiain on August 06, 2009, 05:51:48 PM Try PM-ing SydMonster (http://ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?action=profile;u=461) - he got one welded in when he built this:
(http://farm1.static.flickr.com/96/251971905_f1c0ec4c47.jpg) (I don't have any pics that show it though...) big Title: Re: monster frame brace Post by: MotoCreations on August 06, 2009, 05:55:53 PM Since you are using the stock frame... add a tube left/right where the bend starts in the top tube at the front. This was removed for the airbox when the frame was modified from 851 spec. I typically add small gussets behind the steering tube as well (top / bottom). The one major area of weakness given your frame modifications so far is the top main tube at the crosspoint between the two engine bolts. (normal x-location) Most of the front suspension (up/down travel) will cause deflection in this area about the front suspension bolt. (think fulcrum) Deflection is actually measureable on the older carbie frame -- newer ST-based frames are better. One of the few things you will see with loose engine bolts (most typically when frame sliders improperly installed/torqued) is with the slight rotation/twisting allowed in this scenario, you will see cracks in the x-brace area eventually along the HAZ areas. Thus why I will gusset this area to prevent deflection on a stock frame as well to disperse the load points. Everybody has their opinions here though. Do what you think is best! Title: Re: monster frame brace Post by: truckinduc on August 06, 2009, 06:18:17 PM Yep. I realized that as a weak point in the stock design. As soon as I can get my hands on some 1/8 inch 4130 Im going to build some gussets.
I built my lower subframe mount today. All it does is join the rear motor mounts above the tranny. Doesnt do anything to aid the rigidity of the frame, just provides a good place for a lower subframe mount. Title: Re: monster frame brace Post by: truckinduc on August 06, 2009, 06:28:56 PM (http://i29.tinypic.com/2nbzsq0.jpg)
Title: Re: monster frame brace Post by: monsta on August 09, 2009, 01:07:32 PM I'm also planning on bracing the frame some time soon.
heres some pics that I saved for ideas... (http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a113/Monsta900/frame.jpg?t=1249855271) this is one of the older 851 frames (http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a113/Monsta900/851frame1.jpg?t=1249855336) and frame bracing with filters (http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a113/Monsta900/pipercross.jpg?t=1249855399) Title: Re: monster frame brace Post by: kopfjäger on August 09, 2009, 01:26:35 PM and frame bracing with filters (http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a113/Monsta900/pipercross.jpg?t=1249855399) Nice [thumbsup] Title: Re: monster frame brace Post by: Travman on August 09, 2009, 03:53:18 PM (http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a113/Monsta900/pipercross.jpg?t=1249855399) Beautiful. I should frame that picture and put it on my wall. That is my kind of art. I might have to erase the bag in the background first.Title: Re: monster frame brace Post by: monsta on August 10, 2009, 03:27:31 AM this is where the frame lives, I dont know where I got the pics from but probably from TOB.
this bike has an aggressive stance! its the look I'm after... (http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a113/Monsta900/gallery_06.jpg?t=1249906935) Title: Re: monster frame brace Post by: ProTeal55 on August 10, 2009, 08:23:59 AM Always loved that bike above... [thumbsup]
Title: Re: monster frame brace Post by: kopfjäger on August 10, 2009, 09:36:44 AM http://ebbot.net/ducati/m900crsp/gallery/ (http://ebbot.net/ducati/m900crsp/gallery/)
Title: Re: monster frame brace Post by: truckinduc on August 13, 2009, 08:11:03 PM welded in the first brace today. This one does nothing for rigidity of the frame, just supplies me with a mounting location for my subframe
(http://i28.tinypic.com/2800hae.jpg) Title: Re: monster frame brace Post by: MotoCreations on August 13, 2009, 09:55:29 PM Two things:
Check fitment of the engine mount location spuds -- not uncommon to see twisting / movement if you didn't have bolted tightly to a chassis jig or engine case. (even then you sometimes get misalignment) Easier to fix now then later. Also given the brace going across there that you welded in, I'm assuming you are doing a custom rear header then for your exhaust system? ie: you plan on building one from scratch. The factory rear header and all aftermarket ones probably won't clear that tube. One of the big things about modifying frames that most people forget about is wiring harness routing, exhaust routing, suspension linkage, fuel line routing, etc. It's the little stuff that actually consumes the most time in the end. Building the frame itself is easy -- it's getting everything to fit within it which is the challenge! Thus don't forget that stuff... note: I like to make small half-loop connectors (think exhaust extension spring wire tabs or small machined tabs) that attach to the inner frame rails so no bandaids/tie-wraps/etc are needed on the frame rails themselves. Easy modification to make before paintwork/powdercoating takes place to help hide wiring harness later. Title: Re: monster frame brace Post by: Ducatl on August 14, 2009, 09:37:34 AM I'm interested to see this unit pro-link setup, where is the attachment point for the lower dogbone going to be?
Title: Re: monster frame brace Post by: TAftonomos on August 14, 2009, 11:04:18 AM note: I like to make small half-loop connectors (think exhaust extension spring wire tabs or small machined tabs) that attach to the inner frame rails so no bandaids/tie-wraps/etc are needed on the frame rails themselves. Easy modification to make before paintwork/powdercoating takes place to help hide wiring harness later. Excellent idea! Title: Re: monster frame brace Post by: truckinduc on August 14, 2009, 06:56:14 PM Two things: Check fitment of the engine mount location spuds -- not uncommon to see twisting / movement if you didn't have bolted tightly to a chassis jig or engine case. (even then you sometimes get misalignment) Easier to fix now then later. That is a good point. I welded as much of the tube as I could with the frame bolted to the engine. But due to the location that was only the upper half of each joint. Each mount twisted slightly but I have corrected it. Im not (yet) a good enough welder to know where each weld pass will "draw" the material too. Also given the brace going across there that you welded in, I'm assuming you are doing a custom rear header then for your exhaust system? ie: you plan on building one from scratch. The factory rear header and all aftermarket ones probably won't clear that tube. Stock will not clear the tube for sure, Im not sure about aftermarket. Doesnt matter though cause ive already started on a custom exhaust. Its going to curve upward for about 20 degrees then back downwards like normal. Ehaust tubing is 16 gauge 304 stainless. Its heavy but will do for now. Plus it was sort of cheap. Later down the road I may duplicate it in Ti once I have the money and a chamber One of the big things about modifying frames that most people forget about is wiring harness routing, exhaust routing, suspension linkage, fuel line routing, etc. It's the little stuff that actually consumes the most time in the end. Building the frame itself is easy -- it's getting everything to fit within it which is the challenge! Thus don't forget that stuff... note: I like to make small half-loop connectors (think exhaust extension spring wire tabs or small machined tabs) that attach to the inner frame rails so no bandaids/tie-wraps/etc are needed on the frame rails themselves. Easy modification to make before paintwork/powdercoating takes place to help hide wiring harness later. Yes that is a very good suggestion, thanks. I plan on cutting up the stock harness and simplifying it a bit. Also Ill be cutting the stock bottom rear out of the fuel tank. Ill have to figure out where the fuel petcock will go in order for easy hinging of the tank. Title: Re: monster frame brace Post by: truckinduc on August 14, 2009, 06:58:55 PM I'm interested to see this unit pro-link setup, where is the attachment point for the lower dogbone going to be? The attachment point will be the threaded holes on the case that is the original lower mounting point for the rearsets. Also where the kickstand mounts. Its the best location without actually modifying - welding the case, which I dont want to do. Title: Re: monster frame brace Post by: truckinduc on August 16, 2009, 07:52:34 PM frame is taking a slightly different direction
(http://i26.tinypic.com/w9d2kz.jpg) Title: Re: monster frame brace Post by: flanman on August 17, 2009, 05:13:06 AM [popcorn] I love all the progress pics [thumbsup]
Title: Re: monster frame brace Post by: junior varsity on October 13, 2009, 07:14:11 PM how's this going?
Title: Re: monster frame brace Post by: Monstermash on October 15, 2009, 05:46:16 AM Very cool project! [thumbsup]
I know this may be slightly off topic because you're discussing the frame here but..... Have you done anything to the forks from the RC51? By "done anything" I'm referring to changing out the springs to compensate for the HUGE difference in weight between the RC and the Monster. A while back it was becoming popular to swap out the stock non-adjustable forks on Monsters to some from a GSXR. After doing a few I found there was a one problem that kept coming up. The forks from the GXSR were way too stiff because of the weight difference. Not only did the bike itself weigh more but adding all the extra weight for the additional fuel the bike carries, the weight for the coolant (air cooled Monster vs. liquid cooled GSXR), and the fact that the weight distribution is much farther forward on the GSXR creates a big problem with the stock spring rates. In this instance consider that the RC51 weighs in at a staggering 427.7 Lbs dry compared to the 380 Lbs dry of the GSXR and you have even a bigger problem. IMO, just something important to consider if you haven't already done so. Title: Re: monster frame brace Post by: junior varsity on October 15, 2009, 05:50:53 AM ^^^ Good point.
Easiest way to figure it out is to try to set your sag. Title: Re: monster frame brace Post by: truckinduc on October 15, 2009, 07:46:25 AM No real progress, other than still designing in my head. At the moment I cannot afford the 4130 tubing I need to brace the frame and build the swingarm.
ONce the bike is done Ill re spring it accordingly front and rear. Im using a fox twin clicker out back with a hyperco spring. Im also shifting as much weight forward as possible on this monster, but the bike should weigh about 370 wet. |