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Title: My new ducati! (some questions) Post by: karrotx on August 09, 2009, 07:48:31 AM Hey!
After receiving some of your advice I ended up with an 05 s2r red/white! [moto] Some of the bad, there's no red key [bang]...I didn't remember to ask until I drove 6 hours to pick it up [bang] There are 4313 miles on it! [moto] It's never had the 6k maintenance [bang] How much will it cost? Everything seems like it runs well, however around 4k it gets jumpy; is that how it's going to be or is something wrong? Will a valve adjustment fix it? I've been looking online and looks like I can order blanks and get the code copied from any locksmith that handles codes. Will I need the red key for anything else? Thanks! Price paid: 4500! (http://www.whatshouldwedo.org/images/ducatis2r.jpg) Title: Re: My new ducati! (some questions) Post by: 695LAM on August 09, 2009, 09:27:31 AM Nice looking bike!!!! Love the red and white. Great price too. Can't help you with the jumping but you'll need to take the reflectors off and the bug ears too. LOL Beautiful bike.
Title: Re: My new ducati! (some questions) Post by: nikkimonster on August 09, 2009, 09:38:28 AM valve adjustment runs about $500.
Title: Re: My new ducati! (some questions) Post by: Slide Panda on August 09, 2009, 09:59:39 AM Well of course it hasn't had the 6k... it's still 1700 miles from 6k... Go ride more ;D
Seriously - it's not due for the 6k valve adjustment yet - but being an 05 it may be over due for new belts. They are a 12k or 2 YEAR replacement item. If they have not ever been replaced, they need to be. Can do describe the 'jumpy' situation more? Is the jumpy as you pass through 4k accelerating? More pronounced under hard accel/ easy accel? Is it when you're holding steady at 4k? Etc Do you hear a change in the rpms of the engine? One thing you could do in the near term is for fresh gas and an appropriate dose of injector cleaner. Might not help, but it won't hurt. Title: Re: My new ducati! (some questions) Post by: ducrider45 on August 09, 2009, 11:55:37 AM The red key is the issue. That on could come back to bite you. If you do not have the key card and tag that was with the red key and the imobilizer trips; then it is going tto cost between $1500 and $700 to get the issue fixed. :'( Or you will be forced to upgrade and use a secondary computer [thumbsup].
Title: Re: My new ducati! (some questions) Post by: karrotx on August 09, 2009, 03:43:41 PM Well of course it hasn't had the 6k... it's still 1700 miles from 6k... Go ride more ;D Seriously - it's not due for the 6k valve adjustment yet - but being an 05 it may be over due for new belts. They are a 12k or 2 YEAR replacement item. If they have not ever been replaced, they need to be. Can do describe the 'jumpy' situation more? Is the jumpy as you pass through 4k accelerating? More pronounced under hard accel/ easy accel? Is it when you're holding steady at 4k? Etc Do you hear a change in the rpms of the engine? One thing you could do in the near term is for fresh gas and an appropriate dose of injector cleaner. Might not help, but it won't hurt. Thanks for the advice! I didn't hear a difference in Roma but it jolts forward slightly. This is on constant acceleration around 4k, if I upshift it smooths out. I haven't been able to rag it yet. I'll ride it tomorrow after I title it and see what happens. Title: Re: My new ducati! (some questions) Post by: redxblack on August 09, 2009, 04:20:22 PM It might just be how the power band responds. I know when I hit 6k it feels like another animal all together.
Title: Re: My new ducati! (some questions) Post by: karrotx on August 10, 2009, 04:45:18 AM It might just be how the power band responds. I know when I hit 6k it feels like another animal all together. If it's the power band would it be a continual jump? It's almost as if it slows down for a split second and then speeds up. It's a continual thing for as long as I'm at 4k Title: Re: My new ducati! (some questions) Post by: Slide Panda on August 10, 2009, 04:58:33 AM Does it have a power commander or other fuel management gizmo?
On my 900, I fiddled with some different maps in my PC - one was quite lean around 5k. When I would hold the throttle steady at 5k, the bike would herk and jerk which sounds a lot like your issue. Title: Re: My new ducati! (some questions) Post by: Scottish on August 10, 2009, 05:48:52 AM Does it have a power commander or other fuel management gizmo? +1 sounds like a fueling problem(leaning out)..... or how's your chain tension? If it hasn't been adjusted it would cause some herky-jerky with small throttle adjustments at a cruising speed.On my 900, I fiddled with some different maps in my PC - one was quite lean around 5k. When I would hold the throttle steady at 5k, the bike would herk and jerk which sounds a lot like your issue. Title: Re: My new ducati! (some questions) Post by: WhiteStripe on August 10, 2009, 09:30:09 AM Great price - congratulations!
Read the closed loop ECU thread. You need a FatDuc, DP ecu, or other fix for your closed loop situation. The $80 i spent on the FatDuc was hands down the best mod money i have ever spent. Title: Re: My new ducati! (some questions) Post by: karrotx on August 10, 2009, 01:53:27 PM Chain tension seems right - I'll have to take a closer look.
So, today I decided it was time to flog it. The problem is not only at 4k, when I get up there the bike lurches back and forth continually. It's prevalent at all rpms and the needle moves back and forth a few 100. Also, there's a 9k rev line? WTF! What do I do? Do you think it's fuel? Do you think it's the chain tension still? I tried revving the bike gradually while standing still to test if it's only the engine. It looks like the problem is still prevalent but not as exacerbated as when in motion. Could it be a combination of both? If I do the fatduc mod is there a chance it'll trip the immobilizer? I think I'll just send the ECU off to mastermash and have the DP + immobilizer flash done. Title: Re: My new ducati! (some questions) Post by: aaronb on August 10, 2009, 03:40:24 PM i thought the 800's run open loop, no o2, no fatduc
Title: Re: My new ducati! (some questions) Post by: Scottish on August 10, 2009, 04:13:44 PM That sounds like a fuel problem to me. I'd drain the tank, replace the filter and check my lines, follow that up with some injector cleaner. Should do the trick.
Title: Re: My new ducati! (some questions) Post by: corey on August 11, 2009, 11:01:03 AM i thought the 800's run open loop, no o2, no fatduc correct. no o2. s2r800 = open loop. does the bike have a 14tooth front sprocket? If not, put one on ($25) and reset your chain tension. without a red key, i would have that ECU out to monstermash ASAP. With a DP ecu flash, you might find the bike to run a bit rich with that stock exhaust though... All that new power will have nowhere to go... ZARDS. Title: Re: My new ducati! (some questions) Post by: numbskull on August 11, 2009, 12:04:44 PM Quote Also, there's a 9k rev line? WTF! That's about right. Title: Re: My new ducati! (some questions) Post by: corey on August 11, 2009, 01:26:40 PM bike probably stops making noticeable power somewhere before 7000 anyway.
welcome to ducati :) s2r800 is rated somewhere around 76hp, with about 54 ft/lbs. of torque. fast? not the fastest.. but it's a great powerband for flogging the shit out of the bike on the twisties. you can use every last ounce of power with that 800. it's more fun to ride a slow bike fast, than a fast bike slow ;D love my 800. as far as your 6000 mile service, cost will depend on location. around my parts, I'm looking at $350 + parts (belts, by my choice, and shims if necessary)... so probably around $500... anywhere around there, i'd consider reasonable. Title: Re: My new ducati! (some questions) Post by: karrotx on August 12, 2009, 09:43:21 AM Well, I took it to the shop today. They said it has a bent output shaft. [bang]
$1892 to fix it. [bang] What the **** am I going to do? I bought this for $4500, the guy said "nothing needed, ready to ride." I drove 6 hours to Ohio.... [bang] [bang] [bang] [bang] [bang] [bang] >:( Title: Re: My new ducati! (some questions) Post by: causeofkaos on August 12, 2009, 09:48:51 AM ouch.
thats gonna leave a mark Title: Re: My new ducati! (some questions) Post by: Slide Panda on August 12, 2009, 09:51:32 AM Bent main? How the F do you do that...
Well you could give the PO a call and see if he'll work with you on the cost... but don't expect that to go far. And I'm guessing there's no sort of warranty or guarantee of condition from him? Title: Re: My new ducati! (some questions) Post by: karrotx on August 12, 2009, 10:11:52 AM Bent main? How the F do you do that... Well you could give the PO a call and see if he'll work with you on the cost... but don't expect that to go far. And I'm guessing there's no sort of warranty or guarantee of condition from him? I gave the seller a call, see how far that goes :/. I would be more than ecstatic if we split the cost. By the way, are you in the NOVA area? I see DD and VonDari in your smuggmugg. Title: Re: My new ducati! (some questions) Post by: Slide Panda on August 12, 2009, 10:36:01 AM I am indeed... By your bike photo I thought 'man that looks like Ashburn'
If you're in NOVA, I'd recommend DucPond in Winchester for the work. Though it's a drive for me (in arlington) they are the top shop in the area. Title: Re: My new ducati! (some questions) Post by: karrotx on August 12, 2009, 10:43:35 AM I am indeed... By your bike photo I thought 'man that looks like Ashburn' If you're in NOVA, I'd recommend DucPond in Winchester for the work. Though it's a drive for me (in arlington) they are the top shop in the area. The bike is at DucPond currently. I can't decide what to do. How much do you think someone would pay for an 05 s2r with a bent output shaft and no red key? The bike runs, but not well. Title: Re: My new ducati! (some questions) Post by: Scottish on August 12, 2009, 10:52:49 AM Slow down dude. Do you have and mechanical ability? I've found that Monsters are some of the easiest bikes out there to work on. I'd rather work on my 07 Monster than my 78 CB750. Check the "parts for sell section" see if anyone is parting out anything, you could pick up the parts cheap. If you don't see anything look for Chris Sarceni (motoredsports) he's helped me out with a lot of stuff and I'd be surprised if he didn't have anything on hand and at a reasonable price. Worst case, I'd bet you could get a whole engine from him for cheaper than you quoted price.
Title: Re: My new ducati! (some questions) Post by: Slide Panda on August 12, 2009, 11:10:47 AM Talk to Donnie about some alternatives. He might well be able to source an engine for you and get it in for close to or less than that price. Doing the main shaft is a lot of work, splitting the whole case. I'd also be worried that other stuff is mucked up... though Donnie's probably taken into account replacing the main bearings...
Title: Re: My new ducati! (some questions) Post by: corey on August 12, 2009, 12:10:58 PM i can pretty much guarantee that the PO was not a member here....
what a douche. Title: Re: My new ducati! (some questions) Post by: WhiteStripe on August 27, 2009, 04:08:48 AM correct. no o2. s2r800 = open loop. Whoops, my bad sorry :-[ Title: Re: My new ducati! (some questions) Post by: karrotx on August 27, 2009, 01:33:20 PM I should be getting it back tomorrow! [moto]
;D Title: Re: My new ducati! (some questions) Post by: Slide Panda on August 27, 2009, 03:54:51 PM Just in time to ride it back out that way to Summit point for the races. [thumbsup] I'll be out there sat (in mah car) - Look for someone looking like a soccer hooligan, with a camera and a limp.
Title: Re: My new ducati! (some questions) Post by: Splinter Cell on August 28, 2009, 10:47:37 AM Where did you buy this bike in Houston?
Title: Re: My new ducati! (some questions) Post by: Slide Panda on August 28, 2009, 10:58:55 AM Where did you buy this bike in Houston? Where'd you get Huston from? He got it some place in Ohio, from a private (dick bag) seller Title: Re: My new ducati! (some questions) Post by: karrotx on August 29, 2009, 11:37:35 AM Well I got the bike back from Ducpond.
I brought them a motor, they did a full 12k service (even though the motor has 4500 on it), and installed. They gave me a good price. But...this new motor has a surging problem at 3500-4k. Also, if I'm in 1st at 5000+ it'll surge. It's very make the beast with two backsing irritating. Is this just the bike? I'm going to get a dyno run on Tuesday or next Saturday. Should I buy an exhaust and ECU flash? Should I look into the fuel injection? I'm so disappointed, I have a bike that runs but not smoothly. I don't have the money to waste but if I have to I will :/. In fact, if anyone that knows s2r 800's and is in the NOVA area - I would like for you to take the bike for a spin. I need to verify that this is not all in my head. Title: Re: My new ducati! (some questions) Post by: justinrhenry on August 29, 2009, 01:18:47 PM does the s2r 800 have a choke on the left controls (cold start lever) the way my 620 does? if so, do you have it pushed all the way up?
Title: Re: My new ducati! (some questions) Post by: rockaduc on August 29, 2009, 01:26:32 PM Exhaust, dyno tune, and ECU flash should def. help things out. DOn't worry, you'll get this sorted and then you will be ALL SMILES!!!! [moto]
BTW, I also have an 05 s2r, nice choice!!! [thumbsup] Title: Re: My new ducati! (some questions) Post by: karrotx on August 31, 2009, 04:10:22 PM does the s2r 800 have a choke on the left controls (cold start lever) the way my 620 does? if so, do you have it pushed all the way up? Yes, the choke (idle assist) is all the way forward. I can't shake this problem, it's so very unsettling. The jerk is so strong that if I was in a corner I'd probably high side..it's scaring me. Title: Re: My new ducati! (some questions) Post by: Slide Panda on August 31, 2009, 04:31:03 PM Sounds a bit like it's running lean. I monkeyed with my fueling a while back and it was very lean around 5k. If I held the throttle there it was a herky jerky ride.
What sort of filter is on it? Any mods to the air box? Title: Re: My new ducati! (some questions) Post by: Jester on August 31, 2009, 04:33:33 PM Hate to say, but if there wasn't a red key, I wouldn't have bought the bike in the first place. Also, the price may have been dropped that low due to the bike's known ( and not disclosed ) issues. Hopefully it all gets sorted out for yah. I have an 07' S2R. Really capable bike for most riding. Have you approached the seller about the issues and possibly a refund? Lawsuit perhaps?
As far as the surging problem.... the S2R doesn't make seemless power below 4k rpms anyway. You need to string it out and keep it over 4k for smoother power delivery, otherwise its lumpy at low rpms. It likes to be rev'ed and responds well as long as you keep it in its sweetspot of 4k-8k. Power drops off near redline, and as far as that goes, its a vtwin, so your redline isn't going to be real high like on jap bikes or even the higher revving sbk vtwin configurations. Its a usable and friendly powerband if my opinion counts. Title: Re: My new ducati! (some questions) Post by: karrotx on August 31, 2009, 04:50:48 PM Sounds a bit like it's running lean. I monkeyed with my fueling a while back and it was very lean around 5k. If I held the throttle there it was a herky jerky ride. What sort of filter is on it? Any mods to the air box? Should be the stock filter, I've never checked. I'll check tomorrow morning. Hate to say, but if there wasn't a red key, I wouldn't have bought the bike in the first place. Also, the price may have been dropped that low due to the bike's known ( and not disclosed ) issues. Hopefully it all gets sorted out for yah. I have an 07' S2R. Really capable bike for most riding. Have you approached the seller about the issues and possibly a refund? Lawsuit perhaps? As far as the surging problem.... the S2R doesn't make seemless power below 4k rpms anyway. You need to string it out and keep it over 4k for smoother power delivery, otherwise its lumpy at low rpms. It likes to be rev'ed and responds well as long as you keep it in its sweetspot of 4k-8k. Power drops off near redline, and as far as that goes, its a vtwin, so your redline isn't going to be real high like on jap bikes or even the higher revving sbk vtwin configurations. Its a usable and friendly powerband if my opinion counts. The problem is the 4k-8k range in all of the lower gears. 5k in 6th down the highway is smooth sailing. The low rpm's are actually rather smooth. Title: Re: My new ducati! (some questions) Post by: kingbaby on August 31, 2009, 04:53:53 PM Should be the stock filter, I've never checked. I'll check tomorrow morning. The problem is the 4k-8k range in all of the lower gears. 5k in 6th down the highway is smooth sailing. The low rpm's are actually rather smooth. PM sent Title: Re: My new ducati! (some questions) Post by: cutter on August 31, 2009, 04:58:11 PM This is highly unlikely, but I had similar symptoms on my first monster, an 02 750- the culprit was the fuel line to one of the cylinders was pinched under the airbox assembly- it came from the factory like that. I think the dealer would have noticed. I think you also would have, I did, took 10 minutes and a couple of allen wrenches to sort out. Sorry about the bad luck, I know the feeling. I just bought an old land rover this spring to find out the previous owner decided to swap the crankshaft bearings and did it wrong- going to run 2500 at least to fix. Someone needs to make some sort of implant for testicles for anyone who sells a used vehicle so the new owner can electrocute them remotely if this sort thing happens.
Title: Re: My new ducati! (some questions) Post by: Travman on August 31, 2009, 05:02:09 PM What do the guys at DucPond say about your problems with the new engine? Did they ride the bike after installing the new engine? I'm sure they can get the surging issues sorted for you.
Title: Re: My new ducati! (some questions) Post by: karrotx on August 31, 2009, 05:17:56 PM What do the guys at DucPond say about your problems with the new engine? Did they ride the bike after installing the new engine? I'm sure they can get the surging issues sorted for you. The owner said that his tech road the bike and said that's how all s2r's are. I'm not denying it, but from what I've read on here that's NOT how they are. I'm trying to get a second opinion on the matter, anyone with duc skills in the NOVA area is welcome to ride my bike (preferably off a cliff...I'm not kidding). I want to get a second opinion that will either find a solution to the problem, OR I can mention this to Ducpond to see what they say. They did a great job dealing with me and I'm hoping this is a simple solution. The owner said that these bikes inherently have a dead spot at 3500-4000 because of how the engine is designed; I'm not sure if he was serious or didn't realize that this isn't a 1000 with an 02 sensor. Title: Re: My new ducati! (some questions) Post by: needtorque on August 31, 2009, 05:35:57 PM All s2r are not like this. However, bikes in lean conditions are. Don't stress or give up yet. My s4r (purchased this year) has a similar issue. 3800-4900 rpm in 1st, 2nd, and 3rd has bad bucking, popping, backfiring. 4th gear has it a bit and 5th and 6th are smooth as silk. If I am accelerating at all the bucking goes away but when cruising anywhere in this rpm range it's bad. I know it's lean and I just need to get it to a dyno. I am waiting until after my 12k service when I will have them balance the TB, check the CO and TPS. If the problem is still there (likely it will be) then I will take it to have a custom map run on the PC3 that came with the bike.
Your bike just needs proper tuning. Title: Re: My new ducati! (some questions) Post by: karrotx on August 31, 2009, 06:18:42 PM All s2r are not like this. However, bikes in lean conditions are. Don't stress or give up yet. My s4r (purchased this year) has a similar issue. 3800-4900 rpm in 1st, 2nd, and 3rd has bad bucking, popping, backfiring. 4th gear has it a bit and 5th and 6th are smooth as silk. If I am accelerating at all the bucking goes away but when cruising anywhere in this rpm range it's bad. I know it's lean and I just need to get it to a dyno. I am waiting until after my 12k service when I will have them balance the TB, check the CO and TPS. If the problem is still there (likely it will be) then I will take it to have a custom map run on the PC3 that came with the bike. Your bike just needs proper tuning. When I'm accelerating in 1st-4th the bucking is present :/. Thanks for the advice though. Title: Re: My new ducati! (some questions) Post by: RUFKM on September 01, 2009, 06:48:35 AM My s4r (purchased this year) has a similar issue. 3800-4900 rpm in 1st, 2nd, and 3rd has bad bucking, popping, backfiring. 4th gear has it a bit and 5th and 6th are smooth as silk. needtorque, you're the one here that needs the FatDuc. Best $80 you can spend. All of your listed problems will just go away. Takes 1/2 hour to install. |