On the DSS monsters did some of them come with aluminum swingarms? If so, which models had an aluminum swing arm and how can you tell the difference at a glance?
Dont know all the years but I know some of the 900 monsters had aluminum rear swingarms. Use a magnet to identify them as they look pretty much identical to the steel ones.
Your 05 has an aluminum swingarm.
they actually don't look all that similar and you can easily tell by simply looking at them that they are different.
this is an aluminum one
(http://inlinethumb10.webshots.com/3017/2491081230076697328S600x600Q85.jpg)
this is a steel
(http://lh4.ggpht.com/_78vK3N7F2DA/Sd44uApR-aI/AAAAAAAAAhM/8Ppyf3t9Q9g/DSC05476.JPG)
AFAIK all aluminum swingers came with gold end caps, they're all natural colored, they have ridges on the top and bottom of the arm and they all have threaded holes for spools.
Also, make sure you don't buy a hoop model as that will def. not fit your bike/ yours probably already has an aluminium swinger.
I was pretty sure my 2005 1000S had an aluminum swingarm, but was not sure. I couldn't check it with a magnet because I am away from my bike for a few weeks. Here is a picture of it. It doesn't look very special.
(http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm21/JonTravisKing/Ducati%202005%20Monster%201000s/20090531_99_14.jpg?t=1249871733)
Quote from: Travman on August 09, 2009, 06:35:50 PM
I was pretty sure my 2005 1000S had an aluminum swingarm, but was not sure. I couldn't check it with a magnet because I am away from my bike for a few weeks. Here is a picture of it. It doesn't look very special.
(http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm21/JonTravisKing/Ducati%202005%20Monster%201000s/20090531_99_14.jpg?t=1249871733)
According to the Ducati.com web site for previous model years, the 2005 1000S has an aluminum swing arm. The web site does not specify whether the non-S model has aluminum or steel, so I'd guess that it's steel (for the non-S).
http://www.ducati.com/bikes/my2005/monster.jhtml?family=monster (http://www.ducati.com/bikes/my2005/monster.jhtml?family=monster)
Thanks guys for all the information.
Quote from: Ducatl on August 09, 2009, 05:30:17 PM
AFAIK all aluminum swingers came with gold end caps, they're all natural colored, they have ridges on the top and bottom of the arm and they all have threaded holes for spools.
All of the aluminum Ducati swingarms that I'm familiar have the spools welded on. At least for the 96 and 97 Monsters and the 888.
In 1998 they finally stopped putting the aluminum swingarms on all Monsters and only put them on the S versions from then on. Most likely all dual-sided swingarm S-model Monsters have aluminum.
I have a steel swingarm on my ST2 and it's not nearly as nice looking as the aluminum ones.
'03 M800S has an aluminum swingarm without spools. I had to weld my own on.
93-99 M900's had aluminum arms (except 1999 M900D)
All M600's & M750's up to & including 2001 had steel arms
In 2000 when the M900Di.e. came out, it had a steel arm on it. (2000-2001 M900Di.e.'s)
Other 2000-2001 M900's (regular and S model) had aluminum arms on them
2002 M900's & M750S's had aluminum arms
2002 M750's (non S models) had steel arms
ALL M620's, M800's (except S model), and M695's had steel arms
M1000's 2003-2005 had aluminum dual sided arms on them
That's what I know (pretty damn sure on the entire list but if I've F'd up, I'm sure someone will correct me)
[thumbsup]
Quote from: Duck-Stew on August 11, 2009, 03:09:53 PM
That's what I know (pretty damn sure on the entire list but if I've F'd up, I'm sure someone will correct me)
Thanks for that information.
As far as I can tell, all 851's from 1990 onward and all 888's (93 and 94) had the beautiful aluminum swingarm with welded on spools and the gold end-caps. I have photos of a few 1988 Tricolore bikes (and one red 851) and one 1989, and some have the nice aluminum swingarm and some have the braced swingarm like they used on the SuperSports. I don't know why some are different from the early years.
Quote from: Duck-Stew on August 11, 2009, 03:09:53 PM
93-99 M900's had aluminum arms (except 1999 M900D)
All M600's & M750's up to & including 2001 had steel arms
In 2000 when the M900Di.e. came out, it had a steel arm on it. (2000-2001 M900Di.e.'s)
Other 2000-2001 M900's (regular and S model) had aluminum arms on them
2002 M900's & M750S's had aluminum arms
2002 M750's (non S models) had steel arms
ALL M620's, M800's (except S model), and M695's had steel arms
M1000's 2003-2005 had aluminum dual sided arms on them
Gonna add that to the model comparison's FAQ, Stew. [thumbsup]
I think the '03 800 *might* have had an aluminum arm, but then that's because it was basically an S spec model. Edit: Cider already said that. I should read before posting.
Quote from: Duck-Stew on August 11, 2009, 03:09:53 PM
Other 2000-2001 M900's (regular and S model) had aluminum arms on them
My '01 M900 Cromo had a steel swingarm. :'( Not sure where the Cromo lies in relation to the other models. It had dual discs, but non-adj. forks.
Quote from: Triple J on August 11, 2009, 03:35:59 PM
My '01 M900 Cromo had a steel swingarm. :'( Not sure where the Cromo lies in relation to the other models. It had dual discs, but non-adj. forks.
Every M900 had dual discs. The Cromo was a regular Monster with a really shiny tank.
Quote from: ScottRNelson on August 11, 2009, 03:48:51 PM
Every M900 had dual discs. The Cromo was a regular Monster with a really shiny tank.
Actually IIRC, it was a Monster 900 Dark w/the shiny tank and some CF bits added to it. (now that I'm thinking of it)
99 M900 (partially an S? - adjustable front showa suspenders, alu swingarm, horrible boge sachs rear, non-floating rear brake)
Hope that makes the comparo more wonky.
Just to shake things up even more, my '04 620 caperix has the aluminum swingarm. It does not have the 140 mph + top speed some have talked about though, I think that was extra.
Quote from: caperix on August 14, 2009, 02:54:57 PM
Just to shake things up even more, my '04 620 caperix has the aluminum swingarm. It does not have the 140 mph + top speed some have talked about though, I think that was extra.
Yeah, Capirexes came with aluminum swingarms. Duck Stew knows almost everything but we can't hold him accountable for all trivia. :) Slight thread drift, actually a major one - I've got a kick out of the 140mph Capirex jokes for a long time. I missed how it all started, evidently somebody named Randall on TOB claimed his would go 140? Don't know if Randall is still around.
yes, DucK-Stew
my '98 M900 - has alum swingarm & adj forks w/ Sachs shock. is not titled an 'S' but seems to have come w/ S specs.
My 99 had the same setup: adj. showa forks, alu swingarm, SS V-stamped heads, BS rear shock.
Things are different now, in regards to the suspension, with penske out rear and the front redone with racetech, but the swingarm is still aluminum, the hoop is now billet, and the heads are still chuggin' along.
hmm, just thinking, would an aluminum swingarm from a 2001 S4 fit a 2007 695? I like the looks of the aluminum arm much better than the steel one.
Quote from: cduarte on September 17, 2009, 06:31:49 PM
hmm, just thinking, would an aluminum swingarm from a 2001 S4 fit a 2007 695? I like the looks of the aluminum arm much better than the steel one.
The rear axle (IIRC) is wider on the AL arm than the steel one, but other than that it should swap onto your 695.
the AL swingarms on the Monsters had the 851 suspension, but the AL swingarms of the SS had a different one, similar to the new 696 right?
was the shockmount off to the side the same as well? [evil] see what i'm thinking?
edit: nevermind. 17mm rear axle, center mounted shock.
I suspect an SS swingarm could be modded to fit a 696 without tremendous trouble.
But I've never looked at 'em with that thought in mind, so YMMV.
you could turn an ss one upside down so it looked like a tricolour kit one or the ones that jm (?) in the uk make.
also need to remember that all S4 and all other 2002 onward monsters use the ST based frame with the different rear suspension to the earlier ones. only STs with an aluminium swingarm were the 4S and 3S.
my 89 851 al swingarm has screw on stand bobbins. they were welded on very soon after. plus the 851 and 888 arms all have 4 screw huggers, with the screws going into little welded on tabs horizontally. later 600/750/900m ones have 3 screws vertically. not actually sure when they changed, but the 600m appeared in 95 after the 888 was finished so i'm guesing all 95 have the 3 bolt style.
plus the early 851 arms don't have a hole on the rh side to get the lower shock bolt out. you have to remove the exhaust to get the shock out as the bolt comes out into the opening the exhaust goes through. it's not much fun with the subframe, coolant res and all.
isn't the al arm actually heavier than the steel one?
i know this is an old thread, but was doing a bit of casual research on swingarms again (i still think the JMC and Metmachex swingarms look great - and are available with bracing) - but I hadn't seen an OEM Ducati 851/888/M900 aluminum swingarm until one popped up on eBay - thing is super cool
Did what reading up I could on it, and it appears it was part of the race kit.
http://jpegbay.com/gallery/000846107-.html#2 (http://jpegbay.com/gallery/000846107-.html#2)
(http://img1.jpegbay.com/gallery/000846107/2_f.jpg)
If I could get ahold of the seller, I would pay him to ship it to the US, but my attempts have gone unanswered.
(http://www.motorcyclespecs.co.za/Gallery/Ducati%20851%20Superbike%20kit%20%202.jpg)
The one pictured in the previous post much more closely resembles the aluminum swingarm on my M900, while the 851 KIT swingarm is slightly different, such as where the spools are mounted, and some thicknesses.
Looks pretty cool. The one in the first picture looks like a regular aluminum swingarm with the underneath bracing added. The one in the second picture on the 851 looks kind of spindly in comparison.
Any luck contacting the seller?
The one in ebay link looks like original888/early Monster w bracing.
A friend has this Metmachex for sale, never mounted:
(http://kaemna.de/pic/katalog/schwingeme.jpg)
PM if you`re interested.
Similar swing:
(http://www.ducati.ms/forums/attachments/sport-classic/46305d1239619396-pics-tech-my-966-monster-requested-05042009247.jpg)
Quote from: Travman on March 06, 2011, 01:57:14 PM
Looks pretty cool. The one in the first picture looks like a regular aluminum swingarm with the underneath bracing added. The one in the second picture on the 851 looks kind of spindly in comparison.
Any luck contacting the seller?
None. Sigh.
back from the dead..... Does anyone have any idea of the weight on the AL arm and the steel arm? Curious to know the weight difference.
i believe the steel is lighter, but its flexy.
also fitment is questionable with some exhaust systems. I wanted to put an al on my 620 but the aarow high pipes weren't having it [bacon]
Quote from: j v on April 22, 2011, 01:24:01 PM
i believe the steel is lighter, but its flexy.
lighter...... are you kidding?
not at all. I'm comparing the 17mm axle steel to the 17mm axle aluminum.
The box-shape itself on the aluminum is larger, and the thickness of aluminum is greater than the steel swingarm - hence its additional strength - there is also a lot more going on at the shock pivot on the aluminum swingarm than the steel swingarm.
The box-shape of the steel swingarm is narrower (and uses a slightly shorter axle because of it) and uses very thin walls, and the shock pivot location has lots of "open space" all around it.
I'm not taking my bike apart to weigh the aluminum swinger. ;D
I remember noting that the aluminum swinger I had to remove from the fixxer-upper M900 (it was damaged) was heavier than the replacement I had, which was steel. I didn't measure either though. I suppose I could get a rough measurement on the Alu M900 swinger, since its over at RichD's
I've got an late model (ST style) swingarm that I can weigh.
is it worthwhile to swap out a steel arm for an alum. one? Other than the alum. being stiffer & I guess heavier, what are the advantages?
Quote from: COP TZR on April 22, 2011, 11:11:17 PM
is it worthwhile to swap out a steel arm for an alum. one? Other than the alum. being stiffer & I guess heavier, what are the advantages?
No, aluminum will always be LIGHTER than steel. Always. Rigidity depends on the types and the component design - I'm not sure, but in this case I would hope it's better than the steel component.
AL is what 1/3 the weight of steel with 1/2 the stength.
so figure to get the same stiffness you get about 2/3 the weight, but if you make it stiffer than... well you get close to the same weight or more.
so no, not always lighter.
Quote from: chris1044 on April 23, 2011, 05:32:27 AM
No, aluminum will always be LIGHTER than steel. Always. Rigidity depends on the types and the component design - I'm not sure, but in this case I would hope it's better than the steel component.
Only lighter per unit - like Raux said, it's over sized for the benefits of similar stiffness. It's also the older 851/888 design, where the steel design is sized like the newer big axle swingarms in box shape & thickness.
The steel swingarm flexes easily whereas the Alu version was super stiff. The Alu swingarm also has the big M10 bolt to locate the brake caliper bracket pin (also heavy) compared to the small welded-on pin in te steel swingarm. Advantage there is the Alu swingarms pin is removable for floating caliper setups. Other advantage to the aluminum, besides superior looks, is the built in spools!
Would I "upgrade" to Alu from steel? Yes, but it's a low priority - would rather save up for awhile and have a JMC or Metmachex made to my specs than hope for a good condition used Alu to show up on eBay for a reasonable price
Quote from: junior varsity on April 23, 2011, 08:25:52 AM
The steel swingarm flexes easily whereas the Alu version was super stiff. The Alu swingarm also has the big M10 bolt to locate the brake caliper bracket pin (also heavy) compared to the small welded-on pin in te steel swingarm. Advantage there is the Alu swingarms pin is removable for floating caliper setups.
Sorry to resurrect this, but could someone please post a pic of the bolt through the caliper bracket? I'm reinstalling my aluminum SA and can't remember what it looks like.
Do you have the floating rear brake carrier (with the tension rod attaching at the motor) or the fixed rear brake carrier that is restrained by the pin in the swingarm?
Is this what you're after?
(http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c67/scottrnelson/Ducati/888/Duc888_12.jpg)
It does not have the tension rod. The caliper is on the bottom of the rotor. It's looks like the same bolt set up as Scott but the caliper is flipped.
So, 10mm bolt through swingarm and bracket. Are there washers between the SA and bracket or nut and bracket?
OK, so the non-floater setup.
Oddly enough, I've just done one.
10mm bolt and nut isn't a good solution.
For a dodgy emergency repair, perhaps....
What you need is one of these, part# 037740070:
(http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2891/11955386214_92ea783285_n.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/79721557@N02/11955386214/) (http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7401/11955787766_9de10ae5cf_n.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/79721557@N02/11955787766/)
And a 10mm socket head bolt, 30mm long IIRC.
Very likely Advanced Motorsports has one of those pins.
Awesome, thanks! [beer]
Maybe I'm misreading this, but if it's a "floating" rear mount then it doesn't bolt to the swingarm like the fixed ones (pictured above) do. It floats to make the rear brake independent from the suspension/braking actions. (edit) just re-read and see it's for a fixed that is below the swingarm. Yes, they did both above and below fixed, the only difference is the brake line and the mount (dont' remember if you can flip it?)
Pic of the fixed version below
(http://www.no1special.com/mychromo/rearbrake.jpg)
Pic of the floating version (with part's list) below
(http://www.no1special.com/mychromo/brake-parts01.jpg)
(http://www.no1special.com/mychromo/brake-parts02.jpg)
Hope this helps
It's definitely the fixed which goes on the bottom of the rotor. I went through my box-o-shit and found the nut that Speeddog posted. Luckily enough I was smart enough to thread the 10mm bolt into it when I put it away.
Score one for being somewhat organized! ;)
The bottom-mount caliper bracket uses the small axle.
Some are the floating style, which use a hose mount bracket attached by the 10mm bolt.
The fixed style either use a welded pin on the steel swingarms, or the pin I pictured above with the aluminum swingarms.
I've run across some bike with an aluminum swingarm and the pin, it's annoying when removing the rear wheel, as the caliper bracket won't pivot on the pin.
There are small axle and large axle top-mount fixed caliper brackets.
Small axle are early Monster and 851, possibly 888.
Large axle are '01 S4 and all '02 and later DSS Monster, others like ST and who knows what else....