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Title: Options for S2R 800 rear shock to replace stock Post by: DarkDucati on August 11, 2009, 09:21:51 AM Looking to do some suspension upgrades for an '06 S2R 800 (will be doing some track days).
So far I have some seemingly good information regarding some changes that can be made to the front forks, short of a > spend to fully replace (e.g., racetech kit to replace valves/springs/etc.). For the rear shock, can anyone here confirm what model (if any) Ohlins or other brand will fit the S2R without major customization or tweaking. I've seen mention of Ohlins DU46 or 46HRCS but haven't seen definitive fact online that confirms it. Title: Re: Options for S2R 800 rear shock to replace stock Post by: DucSteve on August 11, 2009, 09:59:21 AM that one and i believe the DU333 would work too
Title: Re: Options for S2R 800 rear shock to replace stock Post by: Qfactor on August 11, 2009, 10:49:47 AM penske double clicker (dunno the # of the top my head) will do fine for trackdays
Have you take the s2r to the track yet? It's very capable in stock form with a couple mm added in ride height. Q Title: Re: Options for S2R 800 rear shock to replace stock Post by: stopintime on August 11, 2009, 11:00:01 AM I have a WP shock. 4014 Emulsion. Longer and stiffer spring [thumbsup] Absolutely worth it.
About the same price as Öhlins. Direct swap. (http://i329.photobucket.com/albums/l394/stopintime/4014_emulsion.jpg) (http://i329.photobucket.com/albums/l394/stopintime/bomb/bomb016.jpg) Title: Re: Options for S2R 800 rear shock to replace stock Post by: He Man on August 11, 2009, 12:08:31 PM if you are willing to cut the coil bracket of your frame, then anything that fits a 999 will fit your bike. dimensionally. youll need to respring it since the two bikes are different.
Title: Re: Options for S2R 800 rear shock to replace stock Post by: RB on August 11, 2009, 12:26:16 PM if you are willing to cut the coil bracket of your frame, then anything that fits a 999 will fit your bike. dimensionally. youll need to respring it since the two bikes are different. hmmmm.....i have already removed my coil bracket (powdercoated the frame last year).thanks fro the info. RB Title: Re: Options for S2R 800 rear shock to replace stock Post by: DarkDucati on August 11, 2009, 07:00:39 PM penske double clicker (dunno the # of the top my head) will do fine for trackdays Have you take the s2r to the track yet? It's very capable in stock form with a couple mm added in ride height. Haven't been to the track yet, just planning to do so in the next couple months. Keep hearing from some of my friends (w/Ducati 996 and other models) that when they had their adjustable type suspensions tuned at track day by pros that it made night/day difference, so I'm working off the assumption that some type of upgrade from my stock/non-adjustable suspension might be of value. Your point is well taken though, as I'm sure stock is certainly capable, and also I have nothing to compare it to not having had something else or previous track experience, so it's mainly just to please my constant need for doing something to my bike, within reason. Title: Re: Options for S2R 800 rear shock to replace stock Post by: DarkDucati on August 11, 2009, 07:04:34 PM I have a WP shock. 4014 Emulsion. Longer and stiffer spring [thumbsup] Absolutely worth it. About the same price as Öhlins. Direct swap. Wow, nice looking! Thanks for the pics. Is this shock just better quality/performance than stock (I assume that's the longer/stiffer part) or is it also more easy to adjust? For example, do you leave it set once adjusted or do you tweak it between on track and on street riding? I like the looks a lot. Thanks! Title: Re: Options for S2R 800 rear shock to replace stock Post by: He Man on August 11, 2009, 08:07:20 PM hmmmm.....i have already removed my coil bracket (powdercoated the frame last year). thanks fro the info. RB [thumbsup]i have 999 showa with a ohlins spring for a monster shock. works lightyears better than stock. Title: Re: Options for S2R 800 rear shock to replace stock Post by: stopintime on August 11, 2009, 11:47:07 PM Wow, nice looking! Thanks for the pics. Is this shock just better quality/performance than stock (I assume that's the longer/stiffer part) or is it also more easy to adjust? For example, do you leave it set once adjusted or do you tweak it between on track and on street riding? I like the looks a lot. Thanks! According to my suspension guru - they are the same/better quality as Öhlins (I trust him - he sells both). Compared to S2R 800 they really are that much better. My spring is longer because it will then work more consistantly over the motion range. I don't have the knowledge to tweak it myself yet, so I leave it at it's "agressive" settings. It's a more demanding ride, but I like that. Regarding the shock, I have preload and rebound adjustability - no compression. There is an optional hydraulic remote preload adjuster, but I didn't get that. My forks have had about the same treatment as you're planning - less dive, no jumping around anymore, well planted. Title: Re: Options for S2R 800 rear shock to replace stock Post by: RB on August 12, 2009, 03:10:33 AM i have 999 showa with a ohlins spring for a monster shock. works lightyears better than stock. so i could use the spring from my OEM shock if i wish?to the OP.... Get your forks sorted first, this is going to make the biggest difference to your track experience. The rear can wait, unless you have the money to do both....i didn't. Depending on your weight, and your riding ability(experience) the rear shock should be plenty capable for your track day, mine was. Personally, i couldn't stand the stock forks on the street, so it was a priority to swap them out first... next week they get racetecs installed. Title: Re: Options for S2R 800 rear shock to replace stock Post by: He Man on August 12, 2009, 07:11:46 AM yea, if the spring is right for you, but id put money that it isnt. Im 150lbs and i went from stock spring, which was something like 7.8kg/mm (stock) to a 10.8 kg/mm (Ohlins) or something like that.
Title: Re: Options for S2R 800 rear shock to replace stock Post by: RB on August 12, 2009, 09:21:38 AM yea, if the spring is right for you, but id put money that it isnt. Im 150lbs and i went from stock spring, which was something like 7.8kg/mm (stock) to a 10.8 kg/mm (Ohlins) or something like that. I am 150lbs. also...thanks for the info.Title: Re: Options for S2R 800 rear shock to replace stock Post by: DarkDucati on August 12, 2009, 10:30:50 AM thanks everyone for the advice. I think I'll save some $$ for the WP shock if I can't nab any deals off the parts board, but for now I think I'll just do the spring/valve replacement on the stock forks and head to the track. I'll post up results/story once I do that.
[thumbsup] Title: Re: Options for S2R 800 rear shock to replace stock Post by: He Man on August 12, 2009, 11:07:17 AM 999 showa + ohlins is cheap. :) you can nap a 999 ohlins on ebay for very little.
Title: Re: Options for S2R 800 rear shock to replace stock Post by: stopintime on August 12, 2009, 01:15:24 PM thanks everyone for the advice. I think I'll save some $$ for the WP shock if I can't nab any deals off the parts board, but for now I think I'll just do the spring/valve replacement on the stock forks and head to the track. I'll post up results/story once I do that. [thumbsup] I think the forks are most important to have sorted out too. If you go to the track with the stock ones, they will bottom out and come jumping back up with their soft springs, weak compression and almost absent rebound. The stock shock is poor, but at least you will be able to preload it and add quite a bit of rebound. Good luck [thumbsup] Keep us posted! Title: Re: Options for S2R 800 rear shock to replace stock Post by: squidwood on August 15, 2009, 08:29:56 AM I own a 2005 s2r 800 and I have fitted a Penske shock with an eibach spring.It is a Penske 8900 series with a 8981 compression adjuster mounted remotely on the frame.
The difference between the stock shock (sachs) and this one is night and day........all I can say once installed, sag set and properly adjusted I can fully flog my bike around corners. I also have a DP showa fullly adjustable front end with custom valves,springs and shims. Do the rear shock first before you do the front, you;ll love the difference. If you scroll back about 5 pages you can see a thread called "my bike" by yours truly and there is a pic there of the bike Title: Re: Options for S2R 800 rear shock to replace stock Post by: DarkDucati on August 15, 2009, 06:39:09 PM I have an appointment lined up at Evolution Suspension to redo the forks with Racetech parts (valve, springs, etc.).
Still deciding on what to do about the rear mono shock. Lots of good suggestions, and also still looking at ebay and other used parts sources. I'll post up when all is done. Title: Re: Options for S2R 800 rear shock to replace stock Post by: DarkDucati on August 15, 2009, 06:43:49 PM I own a 2005 s2r 800 ...If you scroll back about 5 pages you can see a thread called "my bike" by yours truly and there is a pic there of the bike nice ride [thumbsup] the yellow with black stripe looks great. I like the striped look more and more. may have to do mine that way. If you have any pics of your shock you mentioned, post it up, I'd like to see that better. Title: Re: Options for S2R 800 rear shock to replace stock Post by: ICON on August 17, 2009, 07:19:46 AM According to my suspension guru - they are the same/better quality as Öhlins (I trust him - he sells both). Compared to S2R 800 they really are that much better. My spring is longer because it will then work more consistantly over the motion range. I don't have the knowledge to tweak it myself yet, so I leave it at it's "agressive" settings. It's a more demanding ride, but I like that. Regarding the shock, I have preload and rebound adjustability - no compression. There is an optional hydraulic remote preload adjuster, but I didn't get that. My forks have had about the same treatment as you're planning - less dive, no jumping around anymore, well planted. stopintime, Where did you buy that shock and how much did you pay for it? I'm looking to beef up my S2R in the suspension section. I've had Elka, Ohlins and Penske at one point. I love that look of your shock. I would go nicely with my Black and Silver S2R. Do you know if they also make springs for out forks. I have the adjustable forks. Title: Re: Options for S2R 800 rear shock to replace stock Post by: stopintime on August 17, 2009, 10:51:29 AM stopintime, Where did you buy that shock and how much did you pay for it? I'm looking to beef up my S2R in the suspension section. I've had Elka, Ohlins and Penske at one point. I love that look of your shock. I would go nicely with my Black and Silver S2R. Do you know if they also make springs for out forks. I have the adjustable forks. I'm in Norway, Europe, so I'm not sure if my source is of any use to you. Anyway, you can send him an email at espen@esp1tech.no - he's been working with race teams in the US, so he might be able to point you in the right direction. Including our precious 25% VAT the price was close to $1,000. That included building it from scratch, more or less, to give me the right amount of compression and rebound for the very stiff spring I needed for my weight and riding preferences. If you want, WP also have models with adjustable compression and/or remote preload. I don't know if the parts used in my forks were WP, but I know that guru Espen was able to give me plenty rebound, which is almost impossible for the S2R800 Marzocchi forks. For your bike it's much easier to get good results with all the valves and other parts that are out there. Espen is a full service shop for Öhlins, so I could have gotten one for the same price as the WP. I chose the WP, not only for it's quality, but to do something different than the usual and yellow Öhlins. (You see, Öhlins being Swedish, is to us like Canadian products are to you I guess. I stay away if I can) Title: Re: Options for S2R 800 rear shock to replace stock Post by: DarkDucati on August 26, 2009, 11:21:18 AM just an update...
went in to a suspension shop to have a racetech parts upgrade to the front forks. got a call saying that my forks had "cartridge" style inside so the swap for racetech spring/valve could not be done, but another possibility would be to use a cartridge from a GSXR that would have better spring etc. and be adjustable. think maybe I'll just head to the track anyway and see how it all goes. being that I have nothing to compare it to so far I'm guessing I'll have a blast and can worry about better performance parts later or on the next monster I upgrade to. Title: Re: Options for S2R 800 rear shock to replace stock Post by: stopintime on August 26, 2009, 02:38:42 PM just an update... went in to a suspension shop to have a racetech parts upgrade to the front forks. got a call saying that my forks had "cartridge" style inside so the swap for racetech spring/valve could not be done, but another possibility would be to use a cartridge from a GSXR that would have better spring etc. and be adjustable. think maybe I'll just head to the track anyway and see how it all goes. being that I have nothing to compare it to so far I'm guessing I'll have a blast and can worry about better performance parts later or on the next monster I upgrade to. It's probably a good idea to check it out first [thumbsup] You could wrap a zip tie around the moving lower part of your fork - then you'll see how far down the front goes. Even on stoppies mine doesn't bottom out, but it frequently did before my upgrade. It's a nice way of finding out if the spring and compression perform. Good luck on the track [moto] Title: Re: Options for S2R 800 rear shock to replace stock Post by: DarkDucati on August 27, 2009, 05:07:15 AM ...You could wrap a zip tie around the moving lower part of your fork - then you'll see how far down the front goes... cool idea, I'll have to try that, thanks! Title: Re: Options for S2R 800 rear shock to replace stock Post by: corey on August 31, 2009, 05:15:06 PM just an update... went in to a suspension shop to have a racetech parts upgrade to the front forks. got a call saying that my forks had "cartridge" style inside so the swap for racetech spring/valve could not be done, but another possibility would be to use a cartridge from a GSXR that would have better spring etc. and be adjustable. think maybe I'll just head to the track anyway and see how it all goes. being that I have nothing to compare it to so far I'm guessing I'll have a blast and can worry about better performance parts later or on the next monster I upgrade to. i dont understand why a different, non-progressive rate spring, could not be swapped in... Title: Re: Options for S2R 800 rear shock to replace stock Post by: stopintime on August 31, 2009, 06:30:44 PM i dont understand why a different, non-progressive rate spring, could not be swapped in... It can. Problem would be that we can't have springs AND valves (maybe?) Title: Re: Options for S2R 800 rear shock to replace stock Post by: corey on September 01, 2009, 04:34:38 AM dunno... that doesn't make much sense either though... at least to me.. but I am currently in the midst of trying to learn all this stuff so I could be wrong. From what I understand, at the very least, he could have had springs dropped in, new oil put in, and even had his valves "modified" to accomodate the new stuff... plus shims/spacers for preload...
just fishy to me, sounds like they didn't feel like dealing with it or doing the work... Title: Re: Options for S2R 800 rear shock to replace stock Post by: DarkDucati on September 01, 2009, 06:26:49 PM my understanding is that is had more to do with the type of internal parts I have, specifically that my stock setup is a cartridge style, which was described as being like a self-contained bike pump inside my forks, and that means that the non-cartridge style Racetech spring and valve parts that were originally lined up to go in would not work. So they did say the upgrade could still be done, but it would have to be another cartridge style setup, and they could get one (that has better spring etc.) from a GSXR, but it also has to be the right length, which they didn't have at the time.
I'm definitely not an expert on this, so am relying on the shop for info, but they are a highly recommended shop, been in the biz for a long time, so I have no reason to think anything is fishy, and I may also not be fully explaining this right but that's my understanding so far. I'm actually thinking I may hold off as it rides fine to me now and I've not even done one track day yet, until Oct, so it'll be fine. I'm plotting an upgrade/next bike so I may hold out and spend the $$ on the next duc. If any experts see this post, comment away. Maybe you can clear this up. [thumbsup] Title: Re: Options for S2R 800 rear shock to replace stock Post by: squidwood on September 07, 2009, 11:29:50 AM the stock S2R 800 front forks are bottom of the barrel marzocchi forks which are non adjustable.If you remove the cartridge you will see that the end is crimped and not screwed together. With a crimped end you cannot replace the valves and the shimstacks.
If you replace springs which I did initially its difficult to get the oil sorted out because the valves in the sealed cartridge have small holes and cannot let enough oil in or out quick enough.Heavier springs can be used but then you play the guessing game with oil...do I use 10 weight? do I use 5 weight? Do I use 7.5 weight? etc etc. So, here is what I would suggest you do........... First replace your rear shock with a penske and an eibach spring. Secondly source a good used front end, and send it to Dave Hodges at GP Suspension in Oregon City,Oregon, and have him work his magic. He'll fit custom springs,valves and shimstacks for you at a very reasonable price. I sing his praises as he is the man! All he does is suspension. He makes his own parts and also makes parts like valves and shims for other companies. Go to his website www.gpsuspension.com (http://) have a good read, make the phone calls,spend the money and ride the dogsnot out of your bike after he has done your suspension. YOU WILL NOT BE DISAPOINTED! Title: Re: Options for S2R 800 rear shock to replace stock Post by: cduarte on September 09, 2009, 01:49:07 PM the stock S2R 800 front forks are bottom of the barrel marzocchi forks which are non adjustable.If you remove the cartridge you will see that the end is crimped and not screwed together. With a crimped end you cannot replace the valves and the shimstacks. If you replace springs which I did initially its difficult to get the oil sorted out because the valves in the sealed cartridge have small holes and cannot let enough oil in or out quick enough.Heavier springs can be used but then you play the guessing game with oil...do I use 10 weight? do I use 5 weight? Do I use 7.5 weight? etc etc. So, here is what I would suggest you do........... First replace your rear shock with a penske and an eibach spring. Secondly source a good used front end, and send it to Dave Hodges at GP Suspension in Oregon City,Oregon, and have him work his magic. He'll fit custom springs,valves and shimstacks for you at a very reasonable price. I sing his praises as he is the man! All he does is suspension. He makes his own parts and also makes parts like valves and shims for other companies. Go to his website www.gpsuspension.com (http://) (http://) (http://) have a good read, make the phone calls,spend the money and ride the dogsnot out of your bike after he has done your suspension. YOU WILL NOT BE DISAPOINTED! what he said, get yourself a good set of showa forks, and you're well on your way to huge improvements. |