Ok Serious question...
i have always been told (and always followed) that you never lease a car.
but if i keep care of the car and i'm only intending on keeping it for a couple years, why not?
i really don't know much about the subject, but i am considering it.
are the payments more?
'splain to me Lucy
lease rules because every 3 years you get a new whip.
granted it sucks because i just got banged out for $2000 for 4 new ties but still I get bored fast so for me its the best option
Payments are typically less, but you don't own the vehicle. At the end of the lease term, you usually have the option to buy the vehicle at a predetermined price. Depending on what your normal insurance limits are, your monthly premium may increase (most leases require you to keep 100/300).
Quote from: That Nice Guy Beck! on August 11, 2009, 04:55:04 PM
lease rules because every 3 years you get a new whip.
granted it sucks because i just got banged out for $2000 for 4 new ties but still I get bored fast so for me its the best option
it is time for a different motorcycle. BMW and Triumph have active forums I hear.
Quote from: Statler on August 11, 2009, 05:05:09 PM
it is time for a different motorcycle. BMW and Triumph have active forums I hear.
[laugh] [laugh]
If you're of the belief that you should always have a car payment, then leasing is a good idea. I leased a car for 3 years. It's ok, but at the end of my payment I want to be able to sell the car so that I have some cash in hand to buy the next one.
I have never understood leasing for personal use. Most cars driven a typical US schedule, ~15,000 miles a year, will last for 5 years easy and still be in very good shape. You could either lease two 30k cars over 5 years, pay ~400/month, and have nothing to show, or buy a 30k car with a little down, have ~400/mo payments for 5 years, and then have a car still worth 10 to 15k when you go to trade or sell after 5 years.
The key in car buying is to get ahead of the payments game. After you get your first car paid off, keep driving it and start saving your payments until you can put 1/2 down on the next one and the other 1/2 a 3 year loan. In 6 years, when you are ready to trade that one in, its worth plus your savings schedule, you can pretty much buy your next one outright and be done with car payments.
mitt
^^ Or never buy brand new. Let someone else take the big hit, and buy a 1 or 2 yr old car.
Or buy a 10 year old car for cash. ;D
Only practical if you do your own work, tho. [laugh]
I've known/met a few people that leased cars, all of them swore they'd never do it again.
Quote from: kopfjager on August 11, 2009, 06:59:55 PM
^^ Or never buy brand new. Let someone else take the big hit, and buy a 1 or 2 yr old car.
That option sounds good, but over your life, you may be getting short changed. For example, say you never want to own a car more than 10 years old and buy cars in the 50k range...
Option A) You buy 2 year old used cars. Over 50 years, you will have to buy 6 cars, because you can only keep each one for 8 years. Figure you save 10k each time buying used (40k instead of 50k), so you have spent 240k total (6X40k).
Option B) You buy only new cars. Over 50 years, you buy 5 cars @ 50k, so you have spent 250k. Over 50 years, that is only $200 more a year, and you had better warranties and knowledge of the cars history.
mitt
^^ Or, do what I do. Own a 92 Toyota PU, repainted mechanically sound. Never have any payments, and save all the extra cash for motorcycle goodies. ;D
Quote from: kopfjager on August 11, 2009, 07:17:08 PM
^^ Or, do what I do. Own a 92 Toyota PU, repainted mechanically sound. Never have any payments, and save all the extra cash for motorcycle goodies. ;D
That is the best advice so far, but hard to do when you have a wife and 2 little kids ;D BC (before children) I had a '95 nissan PU, that I drove for 10 years. I plan on driving my new 2006 xterra for 10 years as well, assuming it holds up like the PU did.
mitt
Quote from: kopfjager on August 11, 2009, 07:17:08 PM
^^ Or, do what I do. Own a 92 Toyota PU, repainted mechanically sound. Never have any payments, and save all the extra cash for motorcycle goodies. ;D
or you could get rid of your car all together and spend the money on 2 bikes and beer and still be poor!
we tend to buy new and keep. Two ford trucks over 100K miles each. 8 years one, ten years the other. both run like new (mine has lots of body dents due to driving location but otherwise great).
when one dies we will buy new and keep next vehicle over ten/fifteen years.
tool versus toy.
Quote from: Statler on August 11, 2009, 07:27:09 PM
tool versus toy.
I think there is a website with that name. :D
Quote from: kopfjager on August 11, 2009, 07:29:04 PM
I think there is a website with that name. :D
not work safe. ;)
if you are the typical car buyer who, regardless of what they say, will want a new car in about 39 months, leasing is the way to go.
payments will be lower, and you'll be able to get more car.
and the argument that you "don't own the car" doesn't really hold much water if you bury yourself on a 60, 72 or 84 month finance note either.
also, if you use a little know option called multiple security deposits, you can lower your payment further and have money at the end of the lease to either use towards the next lease, or put in your pocket.
In my case, I wouldn't lease for a number of reasons;
I have several cars/trucks for different purposes, so none of them reach even 5000 miles a year.
I tend to keep a vehicle until it's pleading "Take me to the junkyard, I just want to die!"
I get a sense of accomplishment when the finance company sends me the title and I know it's finally all mine.
Most leases have restrictions on modifying the vehicle.
Think of leasing as another form of financing. After comparing numbers then decide. Occasionally manufacturers reduce inventory by offering cheap leases instead of offering rebates. The dealer should have software to do the number crunching. Do consider over mileage charges that can add up big time. If you do choose to lease, make sure it is a factory backed lease
Since 1992 I've done 39 month leases.
I like to drive a new vehicle at least every 39 months or sooner.
I have yet to put any money down on my next leased vehicle.
I have leased from the same Dealership since '92.
Leased from the same Salesman since '92.
The way I look at it is I'm paying to drive a new vehicle all the time.
My current vehicle was leased new in Feb., 2008.
It has just rolled over 3,000 miles . So it is like new 18 months out.
When it comes time to get my next vehicle , I'll call the Salesman , tell him what I want , if it's not in stock , I will go sit down and we will put it together and within a month or less it will be ready to pick up and I'll just sign some papers and drive it home.
Dolph :)
Quote from: Statler on August 11, 2009, 05:05:09 PM
it is time for a different motorcycle. BMW and Triumph have active forums I hear.
Hey now! Don't you go and ruin my Triumph ownership experience! ;D
Quote from: DRKWNG on August 11, 2009, 10:13:12 PM
Hey now! Don't you go and ruin my Triumph ownership experience! ;D
I'd love to see Beck on www.t595.net (//http://)
leasing a car is like renting your living space. always paying, but never any equity in ownership.
if thats your thing (by choice or necessity) so be it. but its not ideal, and not financially sound.
as others have said, i prefer to own my car/truck/whatever. so when i wanted an f250, i went looking for a used one that i could afford to pay cash. my 99 f250 now has over 210,000 miles, and running strong. i plan to drive it into the ground.
i would guess that i average about 2k worth of repairs a year at this point, but thats a heck of a lot cheaper than 400/500 month payment. even if the worst happens, and i find myself in need of a new engine (unlikely with a powerstroke) or transmission, i am still going to come out ahead.
a much more likely scenario at this point is that the body rusts off around a perfectly good power train in the next 5-10 years. i might even have the typical rust issue areas treated and rhino lined to hold that off for a few more years, and still be way ahead cost wise.
a regularly driven rig will not rust out in a few years
that 99 will last for 50 + years if you wash it wax it and change the oil
Quote from: Eeyore on August 12, 2009, 05:07:59 AM
a regularly driven rig will not rust out in a few years
that 99 will last for 50 + years if you wash it wax it and change the oil
haha.......you have never lived/owned a vehicle in the great northeast.
i do wash it regularly (more in the winter) now that i am in the northeast. thats helping, but also starting to flake off some paint.
besides, i dont want it to last
that long. i just did the math....having owned the truck outright, for 9 years has saved me about 35k in payments (assuming a 500 per month payment, and subtracting what i paid for it). i wish i had been smart enough to pay myself that 500 each month into savings.....
move back to medford
go work for Ericson
Quote from: Eeyore on August 12, 2009, 05:13:33 AM
move back to medford
go work for Ericson
that would only be fun if i could fly in the things
Leasing is HUGE where I live.
Everyone wants a big house and a fancy car.
You have a fat mortgage payment, which doesn't leave much room for a car payment.....so a leasing a BMW is much cheaper then buying one.
There is one dealer called the Toy Barn, it only leases new vehicles or sells used (doesn't have the proper license to sell new).
It is facking insane what people lease from there and the prices they pay.............
what are you going to do with the money you "save" by leasing? are you going to invest it (make more money with it)?
i evaluate leases with the intention of buying the vehicle at the end of the lease.
i (used to) have a spreadsheet somewhere that would compute all the buy/lease options for a given vehicle (including equity at the end of the lease period) so you could evaluate them side by side.
when i bought my tacoma, i did the math and there was a negligible difference in payment between the two options. it made no sense whatsoever to lease with the given options.
conversely, a few years earlier, i was looking at the newly redesigned audi a4/s4 and the lease rates were very favorable compared to buying.
^^ +1 to Derby
I think you have to look at lease/buy on an individual basis.
I've always purchased cars, but we leased my wife's Infiniti. We didn't plan on putting over 15K per year on it, which is the max allowed by the lease.
We compared the monthly payment of buying or leasing, and leasing was a couple hundred a month cheaper. We then multiplied that savings over the lease term, then looked at the remaining puchase amount at the end of the lease...then compared that to the same term for the purchase option. Given the same downpayments, the lease was a better deal financially.
Quote from: DRKWNG on August 11, 2009, 10:13:12 PM
Hey now! Don't you go and ruin my Triumph ownership experience! ;D
thought you were selling that bike?
Quote from: herm on August 12, 2009, 04:57:46 AM
leasing a car is like renting your living space.
that's kinda how I saw it.
on the one hand, cool... new toy every three years, with payments generally less than buying new.... but I do want to end up owning the car I'm paying for.
Quote from: teddy037.2 on August 12, 2009, 07:49:38 AM
thought you were selling that bike?
Planning to, but am going to hold onto it until one of the guys I was in Afghanistan gets his assignment here. He said he was pretty sure that he would want it, so I figured I would give him first refusal on it.
Because you'll always lose out down the road by fleasing vehicles.
Case study:
Let's say we have $40k in the bank. We also have a savings budget of $650 per month. Our money market account earns us a 5% apr. Our car is a BMW 328i with an upgraded package @ a MSRP of $39100. A standard 3 year flease on such a car is around $350/month.
Option 1 - flease for three years and turn the car in for a new flease; repeat. Option 2 - buy outright, sell the car three years later and buy a new one; repeat.
Option 1 - We put the whole $40k in the bank, since we're fleasing and there's no required downpayment on the car. After taking out the flease payment we have $300/mo to put into the money market account. After 3 years we'll have a hair over $58k in the account. Continuing to flease we'll have $164.7k after 15 years and $428.4k after 30 years.
Option 2 - We buy the car and have $900 to put in the money market account. We don't have a monthly flease payment so the whole $650 budget goes in the money market account. After 3 years we sell the car to a private party for $21740 (on a 325i from KBB) and have $26.2k in our money market account for a total of $47.9k. Repeating the process, at 15 years we'll have $165.8k and after 30 years will have $499.9k.
A $499.9k bank account is > a $428.4k bank account.
Feasing never makes sense in the long term.
We leased the Rogue simply because the deal was too good to pass up. Plus, since D's income should go up threefold by the time the lease is up, we felt it was better since she will want a new car at that time.
Think of it as a long term rental. If that doesn't appeal to you, then well, that solves that.
We buy my vehicles b/c i like to drive 'em until they really aren't safe to be driven anymore. We lease my wife's vehicles b/c she likes to be in a new car/truck every 2-3 years.
To each their own I guess.
Can't mod a leased car.
That should end this discussion... [cheeky]
Quote from: WhiteStripe on August 12, 2009, 07:27:35 PM
Can't mod a leased car.
That should end this discussion... [cheeky]
sure you can! you just gotta store all your stock junk and put them back on before you return it, then try and sell all your used bits....
makes sense to me!
knew a guy who did that, too.... crazy 1.8t fanboys... :D
Quote from: herm on August 12, 2009, 04:57:46 AM
leasing a car is like renting your living space. always paying, but never any equity in ownership.
if thats your thing (by choice or necessity) so be it. but its not ideal, and not financially sound.
as others have said, i prefer to own my car/truck/whatever. so when i wanted an f250, i went looking for a used one that i could afford to pay cash. my 99 f250 now has over 210,000 miles, and running strong. i plan to drive it into the ground.
i would guess that i average about 2k worth of repairs a year at this point, but thats a heck of a lot cheaper than 400/500 month payment. even if the worst happens, and i find myself in need of a new engine (unlikely with a powerstroke) or transmission, i am still going to come out ahead.
a much more likely scenario at this point is that the body rusts off around a perfectly good power train in the next 5-10 years. i might even have the typical rust issue areas treated and rhino lined to hold that off for a few more years, and still be way ahead cost wise.
One thing I failed to mention with a 39 month lease.
I tend to lease BMW vehicles.
They have a 4 year bumper to bumper warranty ......and all routine maintenance is free for 4 years.
If you are driving a 6 year old vehicle , you have no manufacturers warranty and you are not driving the latest and greatest of the breed.
Dolph :)
I bought a 1999 Subaru Forester in excellent condition for about $4500 (3 years ago). I've put $700 into it during that time, $400 of that was for a set of Yokohama touring tires. The KBB value for private party trade is $4700. I haven't had to carry much insurance in that time either. Assuming I can't get that price and have to settle for $4000, I'm looking at spending $1400 for (probably at least) 5 years of car that will probably be in good enough condition to be my son's first car. If I leased the car new, that works out to be about 4-6 months worth of payments.
And my commute is 38 miles each way on the easy days and an additional 30 total miles on nights I have class at the university. I love my less than fashionable, federally labeled "clunker."
Quote from: DoubleEagle on August 12, 2009, 08:32:59 PM
One thing I failed to mention with a 39 month lease.
I tend to lease BMW vehicles.
They have a 4 year bumper to bumper warranty ......and all routine maintenance is free for 4 years.
If you are driving a 6 year old vehicle , you have no manufacturers warranty and you are not driving the latest and greatest of the breed.
Dolph :)
i may not have a bumper to bumper warranty, but my annual maintenance costs are still less than anyone's lease payments.
and as far as latest and greatest........my 10 year old truck is arguably better than the same model in 2010, if only because of the 7.3 powerstroke
[thumbsup]
None of the new diesels can touch the 7.3l for reliability some have downloads giving near 25 to 27 mpg per cust estimates. The average combined mileage for 6.4l is about 12 mpg plus numerous base engine failures. i apologize if this is classified as a thread jack just babbling
we run those damn 6.4's at work
they are in the shop every 6 weeks
that is no exageration
the 6.0's in our older spare rigs pull a shit ton harder but they were pretty prone to broken turbo's
we have a couple 7.3's left, they no longer like to be started and ran right away cold
in fact
they down right refuse [laugh]
Im contemplating leasing now as well.
I work in outside sales and drive 20-25k miles per year.
I used to drive 18k or so, but things have picked up + I moved.
I have 4 years on my current loan (im buying) and since the economy tanked a year ago Im now 5k underwater on it. If i kept it, that wouldn't matter. But in 4 years I'll probably have 125,000 miles on an 07.
I can't see it being worth much on the resale market.
Im considering trading in to lease (possibly the new equinox) as I can get better fuel economy in it (I ave 21 now if im lucky, and should ave at least 25 with the new equinox) and I can get out of my negative equity car.
Another benefit is that I'd have a lower payment. Though it is unlikely, I want to be prepared in case I end up not having a job.
they're just going to roll that negative equity into your next lease/loan...
how do your future payments look when you take that into consideration?
Quote from: Monsterlover on August 19, 2009, 05:30:13 AM
Im contemplating leasing now as well.
I work in outside sales and drive 20-25k miles per year.
Don't most leases only give you 15k mi a year?
You are going to get royally ass make the beast with two backsed going over your mileage that much.
Rolling negative equity into a lease and going to term on it is one of the only ways to get out of a negative equity situation without paying off the loan.
Quote from: cyrus buelton on August 19, 2009, 06:23:39 AM
Don't most leases only give you 15k mi a year?
You are going to get royally ass make the beast with two backsed going over your mileage that much.
Yes, most standard leases are 15K a year.
However, if you drive more than that, you can buy the miles up front for say $0.10/mile vs. $0.15/mile at the end.
And if ML is using the vehicle for business, he can write the miles off anyways. Lots of tax advantages for business on a lease.
Quote from: Randimus Maximus on August 19, 2009, 06:26:14 AM
Rolling negative equity into a lease and going to term on it is one of the only ways to get out of a negative equity situation without paying off the loan.
well, yeah.. but my point was that it'll also increase his lease payment.
how does the rolled-up-negative-equity lease payment (including buying miles up front to reach his 25k/yr) compare to his current payment?
for that matter, how much longer does he have on his current loan?
if the payments are comparable, i think i'd much rather "stay the course" on my current loan (for likely the same term) and end up with a 100% equity vehicle instead of being empty-handed in 36 months.
Quote from: derby on August 19, 2009, 06:34:20 AM
well, yeah.. but my point was that it'll also increase his lease payment.
yes, it will probably result in a higher payment.
unfortunately
far too many customers find themselves in a situation like ML's. They want a new car and are buried.
they still get the new car, but go from a 48 to a 60 month finance contract. 2 1/2 years later, they are still buried and want another new car, so they roll that into a 72 month finance contract to keep the payment manageable.
guess what happens in 2 1/2 to three years? Yep, new car and an 84 month term.
if that customer had rolled the negative equity into a lease, they wouldn't have any negative equity when the lease term was up.
Quote from: derby on August 19, 2009, 06:20:30 AM
they're just going to roll that negative equity into your next lease/loan...
how do your future payments look when you take that into consideration?
Still better by more than a few bucks.
Quote from: cyrus buelton on August 19, 2009, 06:23:39 AM
Don't most leases only give you 15k mi a year?
You are going to get royally ass make the beast with two backsed going over your mileage that much.
It's negotiable. Ive had quotes for leases up to 20k a year, but that was almost two years ago when A) you could do that, and B) 20k would cover me.
It may not work out for me this time around. I may just stay where im at.
Quote from: Randimus Maximus on August 19, 2009, 06:26:14 AM
Rolling negative equity into a lease and going to term on it is one of the only ways to get out of a negative equity situation without paying off the loan.
Yes, most standard leases are 15K a year.
However, if you drive more than that, you can buy the miles up front for say $0.10/mile vs. $0.15/mile at the end.
And if ML is using the vehicle for business, he can write the miles off anyways. Lots of tax advantages for business on a lease.
It's a little different for me. . .
I get a majority portion reimbursed to me by my employer. If I were over on my miles at the end, I'd turn that bill in and my portion of the cost would be about 15% of the total
There's really nothing left (that I know about) that I can claim on my taxes
When did people become non-content with owning a vehicle for the life of it?
I bought a new Jetta TDI in 2004. That sucker will be run til it won't go anymore.
Bought my 2003 lexus rx300 in december. Same applies.
a car is a car. It is functional. I don't care about performance all that much, I am not racing it.
It is a tool for my life and that is that. just my opinion I guess.
Quote from: cyrus buelton on August 19, 2009, 06:55:54 AM
When did people become non-content with owning a vehicle for the life of it?
that's not the American way, Cyrus.
And while I may be joking with you a bit, it's reality for a lot of people.
the average trade in cycle is about 39 months.
as such, why would anyone get themselves into a finance or lease contract much longer than that?
Quote from: Randimus Maximus on August 19, 2009, 07:02:02 AM
that's not the American way, Cyrus.
And while I may be joking with you a bit, it's reality for a lot of people.
the average trade in cycle is about 39 months.
as such, why would anyone get themselves into a finance or lease contract much longer than that?
Exactly and I think it is a shame our country has moved in that direction. It NEVER used to be that way.
I bet if most talked to their parents, grand parents, etc they would never have dreamed of owning a car for 39 months and getting a new one.
Cars have turned into such a status symbol that they don't mean shit anymore. Who cares if you drive a BMW?
I bought a 6yr old car and my payment is exactly where I want it. Not a whole lot, I think 274$ a month.
I was telling someone that and they were like "you could have leased a bmw for 345$ a month, why didn't you do that?"
that type of mentality is not how I was raised.
Quote from: cyrus buelton on August 19, 2009, 07:07:52 AM
that type of mentality is not how I was raised.
+1
In my case, though, a lease *may* make sense.
However, I still struggle with that idea. I like to own things vs. rent them.
I've never rented anything (saved a ton of money and moved to my own house from my parents house)
I'm finding it hard to embrace the dark side
blame the birth control pill
Quote from: cyrus buelton on August 19, 2009, 06:55:54 AM
When did people become non-content with owning a vehicle for the life of it?
As soon as the car companies realized they could make a shit ton more money off of finance interest than the actual sale of the car and started marketing the monthly payment. $25 down and pay the payment on the window!
Quote from: cyrus buelton on August 19, 2009, 07:07:52 AM
Exactly and I think it is a shame our country has moved in that direction. It NEVER used to be that way.
I bet if most talked to their parents, grand parents, etc they would never have dreamed of owning a car for 39 months and getting a new one.
My grandfather used to get a new Buick from the dealership every year. He'd trade in last year's model, throw in $300, and drive away owning this year's model.
Granted, that was the late 50's, so $300 was more money back then.
I blame Shake'n'Bake.
i blame IZ.
or more specifically, his life style.
Quote from: Drjones on August 19, 2009, 08:10:19 AM
As soon as the car companies realized they could make a shit ton more money off of finance interest than the actual sale of the car and started marketing the monthly payment. $25 down and pay the payment on the window!
the car companies decided that
People are just stupid and fell for it.
Quote from: cyrus buelton on August 19, 2009, 10:50:13 AM
the car companies decided that
People are just stupid and fell for it.
jedi mind trick
*waves hand " these are the payments you are looking for"
Quote from: bobspapa on August 19, 2009, 12:37:41 PM
jedi mind trick
*waves hand " these are the payments you are looking for"
[laugh] [laugh] [laugh] [laugh] [laugh]
Quote from: cyrus buelton on August 19, 2009, 12:46:15 PM
[laugh] [laugh] [laugh] [laugh] [laugh]
when I was selling BMWs, we had some douchebag sales dude come in to teach us how to hook customers. They want you to use a special sheet of paper called a four square. It's a simple trick where the salesman gets the customer to cough up where he/she wants their monthly payment to be. Then once he has that info, the salesperson does nothing but hammer on that payment. In the mean time, the finance guy jacks with the interest rate, the overall price of the car, and any trade in you may have, just to keep you the customer at that monthly payment. Hey.... you said you would buy if I could get you into that new 7series for 2fiddy a month.
(never mind the fact you'll be pay'n for it for the next 25 years, at 25%, and, yer trade in is only worth 25 bucks)
I leased a brand new 1999 Ford Expedition. I put $3k down and had a 39 month lease for $349 per month with 20k per year. Payment total came out to $13,611 + the initial $3k=$16,311. Leased it through my business and wrote off 90 something percent of the mileage each year.
Sticker on the truck was $38k. Probably would have had to put down the total amount for the lease just to get the payments to where I needed them to be.
Do you really think you "own" your car until its paid off? Try missing that last payment....
Leasing may not make as much sense for a business nowadays with the Schedule 179 plan that lets one depreciate 100% of the vehicle value in the first year up to $100k as long as its over, I think, 6800lbs GVW.
Get a <$1000 car and drive it into its grave. My commuter car has lasted me nearly three years. It was $700. I got it for less than two common lease payments, and well, have spent about $300 in maintenance, so there's three lease payments roughly. However, that is spread over three years. I'll likely do the same thing when if finally dies.
JM