I have to buy a welder to get my bike done, however I have several limitations that effect my purchase
Limitations
A) Cost. I am poor as dirt :P I have a wedding to pay for and school (which im paying cash as I go, screw student loans) Basically I get a small stipend out of each check that will have to go towards saving for the welder. Realistically I'm about 3 months away from saving up enough. Budget is around $750
B) Power supply. My house has no 230. Due to the above limitation, I cant afford to have an electrician come and hook one up so Im stuck with a 115 welder.
C) Availability. Not many non harbor freight 115 welders show up for sale, or if the do, its for new MSRP (even though they have been through hell) Plenty of 230s show up, but see problem B.
So it narrows down my options to these three
http://www.mylincolnelectric.com/Catalog/equipmentdatasheet.aspx?p=42420 (http://www.mylincolnelectric.com/Catalog/equipmentdatasheet.aspx?p=42420)
http://www.millerwelds.com/products/mig/millermatic_140_autoset/ (http://www.millerwelds.com/products/mig/millermatic_140_autoset/)
http://www.hobartwelders.com/products/wirefeed/handler140/ (http://www.hobartwelders.com/products/wirefeed/handler140/)
I am aware of the limitations of the welders, but for what I need right now they should suffice.
Personally Im leaning towards the miller, but at the price point the hobart has got me eyeing it as well
Any input wold be appreciated
Could you not run a long cable from the clothes dryer or the stove?
Quote from: NAKID on August 12, 2009, 07:24:15 PM
Could you not run a long cable from the clothes dryer or the stove?
No 230 period
My house has all gas appliances
Well that sucks.
Anyone know if something like this would work?
http://www.action-electronics.com/trnsupdn.htm (http://www.action-electronics.com/trnsupdn.htm)
I wouldn't waste money on a 110 volt welder.
Quote from: NAKID on August 12, 2009, 07:36:57 PM
Well that sucks.
Anyone know if something like this would work?
http://www.action-electronics.com/trnsupdn.htm (http://www.action-electronics.com/trnsupdn.htm)
I would prefer to not have my house burn down :P
As I said the 115 will be fine for now, in the future I will have 230 (but that is down the road)
I've had a lincoln for about 12 years-it's been good to me, and I can make some decent welds with it. I imagine for whatever you're doing to the bike, one would be more than sufficient.
Quote from: NAKID on August 12, 2009, 07:24:15 PM
Could you not run a long cable from the clothes dryer or the stove?
aren't those sub 50 amp breakers though?
a 220 welder needs a 60+ amp breaker
QuoteAny input would be appreciated
What exactly are you going to weld? Knowing that might help with suggestions.
Does your house have two hot leads coming in from the powerline? If so, you can put in a 230V breaker and a 230 V circuit and get a real welder. I suggest watching Craigslist or local papers for a used welder as you can buy a lot of used welder for $700 or so. Also check the bulletin boards at local welding supply shops.
A lot of airplanes and other projects were built for decades using oxy-acetylene. You can buy used torches and tanks for a lot less than your budget and learning to gas weld is a very solid base for MIG and TIG. It's slow but effective for many projects. It's very easy for an inexperienced welder using MIG to get fast good looking joints with little or no penetration, ie, weak.
And, there are lots of welding forums on teh interweb where you will get better advice than you'll find here :)
Quote from: MrIncredible on August 12, 2009, 07:46:54 PM
I've had a lincoln for about 12 years-it's been good to me, and I can make some decent welds with it. I imagine for whatever you're doing to the bike, one would be more than sufficient.
I have a Lincoln also. You can make great welds with it if you can get the work in position.
(http://content.lincolnelectric.com/graphics/products/catalog/00004176.jpg)
I have this one and it will penetrate 5/16" well enough to make me feel safe. It's a good little welder and if you smash the piggy bank and buy/rent a bottle of argon gas you'll be able to weld 1/4" aluminum as well as your mild steel.
I have used both the Lincoln and Hobart welders you listed.
If you didn't know it, Hobart welders are made by Miller, but cost less.
For the money, Id get the Hobart for the above reason. You give up some adjustment though. As I recall either the power or wirespeed (perhaps both?) can click to setting 1-2-3 etc.
The lincoln has the same power and speed settings, but the knob is infinitely variable between each one allowing you to fine tune things a bit.
That being said, the Hobart worked great. My friend owns it and he's built about 6 cars and countless other things with it. His is the 220v version, but I wouldn't hesitate to get the 110v setup.
Don't buy a kit that comes with a cart. You'd be shocked to see how much you are paying for something that should be your first weld project and a fraction of the price.
Here (http://cgi.ebay.com/FREE-SHIP-Hobart-Handler-140-MIG-Welder-115V-140-Amp_W0QQitemZ330351839856QQcmdZViewItemQQptZBI_Welding_Supplies?hash=item4cea810a70&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14) is something that would probably work for you and you'd have money leftover to go get a co2/Ar tank and steel to build your cart.
And beer ;D
Can you rent one? might save some $$
Quote
What exactly are you going to weld? Knowing that might help with suggestions.
Some frame welding (mount points for my sub frame and vertical supports)
Mild steel exhaust (16 gauge) but will have to do some limited stainless work.
possibly some Al work as well
QuoteA lot of airplanes and other projects were built for decades using oxy-acetylene. You can buy used torches and tanks for a lot less than your budget and learning to gas weld is a very solid base for MIG and TIG. It's slow but effective for many projects. It's very easy for an inexperienced welder using MIG to get fast good looking joints with little or no penetration, ie, weak.
I am (was) fairly proficient in mig, arc, and oxyacetylene, in fact oxyacetylene is my favorite form of welding (until I get more tig experience [evil]) Im a bit out of practice but for doing a mix of stainless, mild steel and aluminum at various angles I figured Mig would be my easiest/cheapest route.
Quote from: cyrus buelton on August 13, 2009, 04:39:17 AM
Can you rent one? might save some $$
renting is out... its a long story. :'(
Quote
It's a good little welder and if you smash the piggy bank and buy/rent a bottle of argon gas you'll be able to weld 1/4" aluminum as well as your mild steel.
I'm buying at least a 40 cf, would prefer an 80 or 125 though ;)
Eventually I will be building a shop with 230, at which point Ill make the jump to tig. This is just to get my bike and a few other projects done sooner.
Trust me I would prefer a 230 Tig. Its just not in the cards for the moment
QuoteIm a bit out of practice but for doing a mix of stainless, mild steel and aluminum at various angles I figured Mig would be my easiest/cheapest route.
My apologies for assuming that you're a beginner. And, again sorry if I'm beating a dead horse and I know you said no 230V period, but are you sure you don't have 230V service to the house at all? At least up to the panel? I thought that it was code but don't know for sure. If you have the service up to the house panel it might be a very simple matter to run a 230V circuit to the garage or wherever you'll be using the welder. I'm not an electrician myself but I've run lots of new and legal and safe circuits here. Not rocket science.
I guess this is typical, you ask a question on one topic and get opinions on 50 other topics. :)
Its no problem.
Im sure I have 230 to the panel. It would just take running a line to the garage (which is easy cause the panel backs up to it.) Once I get my shop built, Ill run 230 out to it, and get a Tig. But for now, a 120 will have to do.
They have the Hobart Handler 140 at the local Tractor Supply for $449
The Miller 140 with auto set is $639
The Lincoln Power Mig 140 is $599
Basically I could get the Hobart with a new 40cf cylinder, helmet, jacket and gloves for the price of the other two.... but I will be giving up fine adjustments. I cant decide if the savings is worth the trade off.
Quote from: Cicero on August 13, 2009, 01:07:34 PM
Basically I could get the Hobart with a new 40cf cylinder, helmet, jacket and gloves for the price of the other two
this seems like sound logic
only very very very old buildings have 110 only. most these days have 3 wire comming in to homes. I have a gas everything building too
honestly, i wouldnt waste my time with 110v welder if you are going to upgrade to a 220v. It would only cost ~$200 bucks in supplies to run a 220v outlet..thats if you are okay with working with electricity. In the long run, you wont have to buy another welder and waste even more money. youd only be spending fractionally more.
and hell if you weld enough you save money on your energy bill!
$20 breaker
$20 conduits
$20 in connectors,box and receptical
$60-$100 in wires depening on gauge size.
I just wired 220v into my garage to run my compressor. its worth it to have 220v.
Quote from: He Man on August 13, 2009, 06:20:59 PM
only very very very old buildings have 110 only. most these days have 3 wire comming in to homes. I have a gas everything building too
honestly, i wouldnt waste my time with 110v welder if you are going to upgrade to a 220v. It would only cost ~$200 bucks in supplies to run a 220v outlet..thats if you are okay with working with electricity. In the long run, you wont have to buy another welder and waste even more money. youd only be spending fractionally more.
and hell if you weld enough you save money on your energy bill!
$20 breaker
$20 conduits
$20 in connectors,box and receptical
$60-$100 in wires depening on gauge size.
I just wired 220v into my garage to run my compressor. its worth it to have 220v.
No 230 past the box. No 230 in the laundry room or garage. I dont mess with wiring.
I understand the limitations on a 120. I'm fine with that. When I upgrade its going to be to something like this
http://www.millerwelds.com/products/tig/syncrowave_250_dx/ (http://www.millerwelds.com/products/tig/syncrowave_250_dx/) Right now all I can afford/need a 120 can do. Plus when one of these go on craigslist they usually fetch around 150 less then msrp (when they are name brand not harbor freight)
All I need help with is selecting one of the three.
Quote from: Cicero on August 13, 2009, 01:07:34 PM
Its no problem.
Im sure I have 230 to the panel. It would just take running a line to the garage (which is easy cause the panel backs up to it.) Once I get my shop built, Ill run 230 out to it, and get a Tig. But for now, a 120 will have to do.
They have the Hobart Handler 140 at the local Tractor Supply for $449
The Miller 140 with auto set is $639
The Lincoln Power Mig 140 is $599
Basically I could get the Hobart with a new 40cf cylinder, helmet, jacket and gloves for the price of the other two.... but I will be giving up fine adjustments. I cant decide if the savings is worth the trade off.
IMO, it depends on whether the welds are in position or out of position. If you're welding flat the adjustability is not crucial. Once you go to out of position I thinks it's worth the extra money for the fine tuning.
Quote from: ducpainter on August 13, 2009, 06:36:58 PM
IMO, it depends on whether the welds are in position or out of position. If you're welding flat the adjustability is not crucial. Once you go to out of position I thinks it's worth the extra money for the fine tuning.
shat [laugh] the frame welds will all be out of position, lots of overheads and verts on round tubing. :P
I got a bunch of birthday money today too, almost have enough for the hobart. [laugh]
a long bump, but what did you end up getting?
http://www.readywelder.com/ (http://www.readywelder.com/)
That is my someday baby. Very highly rated and versitile.
Quote from: LowThudd on December 13, 2009, 03:01:14 PM
http://www.readywelder.com/ (http://www.readywelder.com/)
That is my someday baby. Very highly rated and versitile.
what's with the auto start?
Quote from: ducpainter on December 13, 2009, 03:06:45 PM
what's with the auto start?
The 1000-CS is the cold start version. That is the one I'd get. I don't know why they made an autostart.
Quote from: LowThudd on December 13, 2009, 03:12:33 PM
The 1000-CS is the cold start version. That is the one I'd get. I don't know why they made an autostart.
I was talking about the sites auto start spiel...
I hate that.
Buy a Miller or Lincoln machine in any voltage you desire and be happy.
Or Hobart, which is made by miller.
Quote from: ducpainter on December 13, 2009, 03:14:50 PM
I was talking about the sites auto start spiel...
I hate that.
Buy a Miller or Lincoln machine in any voltage you desire and be happy.
Won't mig alominum or run on car batteries. Here's a better page.
http://www.pullpal.com/readyweld/readyweld.html (http://www.pullpal.com/readyweld/readyweld.html)
Quote from: LowThudd on December 13, 2009, 04:03:06 PM
Won't mig alominum or run on car batteries. Here's a better page.
http://www.pullpal.com/readyweld/readyweld.html (http://www.pullpal.com/readyweld/readyweld.html)
Do you not have power or are you a doomer? ;D
Quote from: ducpainter on December 13, 2009, 04:07:13 PM
Do you not have power or are you a doomer? ;D
No 220/240. I've used a 110 welder quite extensively and it just doesn't cut it. I was researching welders alot about a year ago and came accross that welder and I like it alot. Lot's of testimonials incluting the US military. It can run on wall power too with an adapter, besides I just love anything portable.
Quote from: LowThudd on December 13, 2009, 04:15:35 PM
No 220/240. I've used a 110 welder quite extensively and it just doesn't cut it. I was researching welders alot about a year ago and came accross that welder and I like it alot. Lot's of testimonials incluting the US military. It can run on wall power too with an adapter, besides I just love anything portable.
If you're in the US you have 240 if you live on the grid.
You just need to access it.
I'm not doubting the machine you're linking.
I'm questioning the necessity of it.
Quote from: ducpainter on December 13, 2009, 04:22:58 PM
If you're in the US you have 240 if you live on the grid.
You just need to access it.
I'm not doubting the machine you're linking.
I'm questioning the necessity of it.
I'm in an apartment. No ability to hook it up.
Quote from: LowThudd on December 13, 2009, 05:08:58 PM
I'm in an apartment. No ability to hook it up.
Ohhh...
Do you have an electrical panel in your unit?
You know...circuit breakers?
Quote from: ducpainter on December 13, 2009, 05:13:31 PM
Ohhh...
Do you have an electrical panel in your unit?
You know...circuit breakers?
Sure, but I'm not supposed to mess with it. ;) Also, in order to mig al I would still need a spool gun so it equates to $600(welder)+$300(spool gun). The Ready welder will do anything but tig(the only downside) for @$600.
Quote from: LowThudd on December 13, 2009, 05:20:09 PM
Sure, but I'm not supposed to mess with it. ;) Also, in order to mig al I would still need a spool gun so it equates to $600(welder)+$300(spool gun). The Ready welder will do anything but tig(the only downside) for @$600.
Batteries included?
Batteries rechargeable?
I don't see that set up doing anything hooked up to a 12v battery.
It looks like it needs at least 18v and probably 36v to do much.
What's the cost?
Quote from: ducpainter on December 13, 2009, 05:24:12 PM
Batteries included?
Batteries rechargeable?
I don't see that set up doing anything hooked up to a 12v battery.
It looks like it needs at least 18v and probably 36v to do much.
What's the cost?
In the pics I saw, it was always hooked up to at least 2 batteries...
Quote from: NAKID on December 13, 2009, 05:26:11 PM
In the pics I saw, it was always hooked up to at least 2 batteries...
Yup...a 12 and a 6 for 18 v
or 3 12s for 36 v
not something you'd find under the hood.
Ahhh, I thought I saw 2 12V batteries...
But yeah, either way, not something you'd have anyway just because you're driving.
Quote from: ducpainter on December 13, 2009, 05:24:12 PM
Batteries included?
Batteries rechargeable?
I don't see that set up doing anything hooked up to a 12v battery.
It looks like it needs at least 18v and probably 36v to do much.
What's the cost?
From the manual:
Quote
- 18 Volt Battery Can do Thin Sheet Metal
- 24 Volt will Single Pass 1/2†@ 220 amp
- 36 Volt will Weld up to 3/4†@ up to 350 amp
I've deen them as low as $499. Not too bad. There is also an AC adapter available, or there used to be. I can't find it on the new site. Eventually I'd like to get in to 4X4s. Would be pretty usefull in BFE.