Ducati Monster Forum

I just returned from Europe at the end of last week.  I thought I saw a lot more bikes on the road than I see in the U.S. - especially those that people were riding to work.  Although it is common in the summer to see a lot of bikes in the US, I get the impression that motorcycles are a lot more acceptable in Europe than here.  Why?  Or is it just my location in the US?

It's mostly a cost thing.

Fuel is extremely expensive in Europe, and taxes and other fees are high, too. Owning a car is, overall, much more expensive a prospect than here.

Riding is often not so much a choice as the only reasonable option.

That pretty much sums up the major differences. Another big difference is the cultural aspect of riding. People in Europe are conditioned to seeing bikes on the road and respect the riders there compared to North America where we are invisible to all the cagers around us. North American riders are also seen in a different light in regards to the law. The number of idiot riders that make the rest of us look bad seem to be increasing over here. There's also the "outlaw" image that is embellished in the minds of the average person over here that just doesn't exist to the same extent in Europe. Look at the Rocker movement in the UK for example. They got their thrills going the ton (100 mph) riding from town to town. I could be wrong but there probably wasn't near as much activity that mirrored what the 1%er crowd does/did in North America.

Where'bouts in Europe were you? We consider it A Big Place^tm.

I'll just mention that scooters are generally popular for commuting across all European cities.

It also has to do with our, often, narrow roads and streets, not to forget the lack of parking space - only chance of getting through half fast is on two wheels.
The cultural side of it originates from post world war II - there were no cars to be bought - restricted sales, because the resources were needed to rebuild infrastructure. So, a lot of people got what was available - motos.
Depending which country we're talking about, taxes are silly and it makes a lot of sense to save gas and hp/emissions taxes.
I can ride in bus lanes and I don't pay congestion toll/fee - $6 for a car during rush hours.

America was the " Wild West."  Lots of open space for a long time.

Since the price of fuel has historically been low here, bigger was better.

I bet you don't see many pickups driving around in EU.

Dolph     :)

This is exactly why Ducati switched to making motos in the first place. The rest is history!

So how does the USA compare with Australia?

Having lived in Australia for a bit, I can say that the automobiles there are identical to the UK. However, they probably have more Japanese makes there. And just like Europe, you'll never see a lot of big American trucks like you would here. Instead, in Australia, they have utes -- utility vehicles -- which are basically small El Camino style truck/cars. Very common.

(http://farm1.static.flickr.com/57/226969725_8ec50df484.jpg)

Motorcycles are about the same as the U.S.

However, one Australian I know who has lived both there and here mentioned that you see a lot more newer cars in America than Australia.

Hey, it's a Holden! ;D
I'm sure that depends on where you are and what time of day. Even in Beverly Hills half the autos on a weekday morning are high mileage trucks carrying lawn mowers.

Then there's cash for clunkers... [bang]

Hmmm... well I cant let that pass without comment.  Having lived in the UK, elsewhere in Europe and here in Australia I disagree that "automobiles here are identical to the UK"...   Whilst its true that many makes and models offered here are similar to that which you see on European roads, the Australian variants quite often are sold with larger power-plants than the Euro equivalent.  Compared to European fuel prices, Aussies pay around 50% for their fuel so cost/efficiency is not such an issue. Doesnt stop us all whinging about the cost of it though  ;). The local car makers offer family sedans powered by 5.0 and 6.0 litre V8s - models that just wouldnt be sold in Europe.  My own (company supplied - not a reflection of my taste I hasten to add) Ford blando-box is powered by a 4.0 litre motor that would never see the light of day under a European hood.  So my view is the Australian vehicle landscape is a mix of US and Euro tastes and culture.  We like the Euro look, and Japanese build quality, but we like the Americans to provide the horsepower metal  ;)  Although it is true that the roads are also swarming with Jap and Korean econo-boxes all driven a 1/2" from your rear wheel by 19 year old females busily texting on their cell phones [bang]. 

Your El Camino-type ute pic is around 20 years out of date... so here's the current version (Its a Pontiac G8 with a nose and tail job):
(http://images.drive.com.au/drive_images/Editorial/2007/11/29/VEute_074_L_m.jpg)  (http://images.drive.com.au/drive_images/Editorial/2007/09/21/Holden_ute_SS-V_m_m.jpg)
Another vehicle type not-so-much seen in Europe.

But on the more important subject of motorcycles..... I feel that there are now more bikes on the roads here than ever before.  Nope, we dont use em as commuters to the same degree as our European friends, but motorbikes are a much more common site then they were 10 years ago IMO. 

^^^^ That G8 Camino looks bad ass.  [evil]

^^^^THAT THING IS AWESOME !!!!!!!! i totally screamed that.

Did that guy knock down the cones?

(http://images.drive.com.au/drive_images/Editorial/2007/11/29/VEute_074_L_m.jpg)

They are direction markers... but um... doesn't look like he could go left anyway. ???

Nah.... this one looks bas ass  ;D

(http://img.drive.com.au/drive_images/Editorial/2007/10/10/maloo03_L_700.jpg)

Yup Holden, it is  ;D

Who makes that one?   [evil]

Holden makes it >> http://www.hsv.com.au/Cars/Eseries/maloor8/maloor8.asp (http://www.hsv.com.au/Cars/Eseries/maloor8/maloor8.asp)

European & American cagers...why is there a difference?!

I rode in Italy for a week. Sped up the Autostrada from Rome to Mugello. Our group of about 75 riders split between two semi-trucks. They actually gave us space! In the US, different story! :( 
Passing on a blind curve in 2-lane traffic..the oncoming drivers ease over and let Euro riders slide by.

Beautiful!

Too hard a concept for Americans to get!

Overhere in the Netherlands no one rides a motor because they can't pay a car
Lanespliting is legal and that's why there are a lot of riders ,and in the weekends it's just for fun

I also found that cagers are a lot more respectfull of motorcyclists in Europe than here in South Africa, but we africans also use bikes more for fun than commuting and I have to take my hat of to those that do. :-X

Personally, having been to both the US, and Europe once, or perhaps twice, and living in Sydney, I think our bike culture here sucks. Yes, the bike rider population is growing, but till not a match for any European city, or even most US cities. From memory, there are more bike riders in the Bay Area than all of Aus....

in terms of cars, I think we are kind of middle ground between the US and Europe. the US folk are obsessed with huge trucks, and large cars. In Europe, it's little VW Polo sized cars, and in Aus, we are sort of between.

I also agree with ungeheuer, you just are not likely to see a 4.0L engine in a family car in Europe. You will, however, find it in a super exotic sports car, it will rev to 14700rpm, produce 970bhp with quad turbos and an intercooler that takes up the spot where sane people strap in their children.

Having said that, I did see more exotica on the roads in Euro cities than even the US, which surprised me. Lambo Marcielago's and Ferrari F430's became something you just about yawned at. Here in Aus, they truly are rare. If you see more than one a week, chances are, you know where it is parked, and walk by to dream...

Back to the US and your obsession with huge trucks.. I used to wonder about this, until I got caught in a surprise heavy snow storm. In the middle of Yosemite. In a rented cobalt...

Z...
 

I think that the new "utes" shown above would sell well in the US. Subaru is the only one with a car like that in the US. It costs way too much though.

Most trucks here never see anything approaching "off road" and most of the folks that drive them have no idea how to handle them when the weather turns bad.  You can spot those drivers pretty easy. They are ones flying down hills, slidding, and stuck in the ditch. 

Agreed! My daily driver here in New Hampshire, year-round, is a BMW Z-4. Admittedly, there are ususally a handful of days each winter when I drive my wife's 4WD X3, but lots of folks do perfectly well with "regular" RWD or FWD cars all the time. The biggest factor is knowing how to drive and the second-biggest is snow tires.

I pass plenty of 4WD pickups, SUV's, and Hummers in the ditches every winter, sailing by in my little old RWD 2-seater with a few inches of ground clearance.

Then why isn't Finland crawling with em? [cheeky]

When it comes to snow (and, incidentally, performance in any other situation), huge trucks are pretty far out there in the wrong direction.
(http://photos.autoexpress.co.uk/images/front_picture_library_UK/dir_603/car_photo_301854_7.jpg)

Here's the version we almost sent up to you, but the GFC put and end to Pontiac and the Aussie built G8 Ute >>

(http://www.caradvice.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2008/11/pontiac_003.jpg)

Oddly enough, National did not offer one of those as an option...

Z...

Wow, I'm surprised by this. I always figured, given the number of outstanding Aussie racers, that riding and racing must be really widespread down there.

Well, I should add that the population of Australia is about 24 million, so well and truly less than 10% of the population of the US, but still we really do lag. Ye olde highly uncalibrated Optic Nerve and Thinking Sponge would suggest probably about twice as many riders pro capite  in the US (well, places I have been to, anyway) than Aus.

If anything, I think higher fuel prices have pushed more people on to two wheels, though mostly scooters.

Z...

In Melbourne motos were allowed to park on the sidewalk. I was envious as that'll get you a quick ticket here in Seattle...particularly in downtown. Maybe less Aussie riders, but the govt. (at least in Melbourne) seemed to have a good view of bikers.  [thumbsup]

They're also the ones who hang rubber nads from the trailer hitch to show how manly they are in their F250/2500.

The parking nazi of Seattle will get you for a stunt like that

Motos should be allowed to park anywhere a bicycle can [bang]

I have not lived in the UK for a long time, but their driving test used to be pretty hard, and only about 15% of people passed it on their first attempt.

Can do that in Sydney as well.  [thumbsup]

I used to commute to work but then moved further away from where I work and I was getting a bit tired of being cold & wet nearly every day so I sold my bike & bought a Holden ute. It's not the super dooper SS or R8 but it does the job. I moved to a rural town about 80km south of Sydney where you see hundreds of bikes come into town every weekend. And now having no bike, I'm hanging to get another. My favourite pastime is sitting at the open window of the pub, drinking a schooner  [drink] and watching the bikes go by.  :'( 

woohoo i'm in the 15%  ;D [drink]
They have just this year made the test alot harder. People get injured on the test now. Fall off and break arms and legs and dislocated shoulders.

petrol is 101.9p a litre so £1.02 a litre.
Trucks count as commercial vehicles so have aditional tax to pay on the purchase if its not a bvusiness vehicle.
There still lots of them but they babies compare to the US models

Utes kick ass. They have just started official imports of the Holden HSVR to the UK woohoo
its about 1/3 of the price of an M3 or and Audi RS4 and waaay more fun.they spoil it by putting vauxhall badges on it too.

Some owners spoil them here by putting Chevy bow ties on them.  [roll]

(http://www.bv.com.au/file/BV-House-2-web.jpg)

(http://bicyclefreaksforchrist.files.wordpress.com/2009/02/sc_amsterdam_bicycle_parking.jpg)

(http://image40.webshots.com/41/7/65/1/2420765010057439759ovlKhe_ph.jpg)

(http://www.autoevolution.com/images/moto_models/DUCATI_Cucciolo-1946_main.jpg)

...and suddenly it's ticketable. Or maybe I should slap on a pair of pedals when I park. [evil]

he was in Monaco and Liechtenstein

I do it all the time in downtown Manhattan.  NY tickets are absurd, usually around $185. My trick? Take your plate off.  They can't ticket you if they don't have it. The parking ass holes don't want to go through the hassle of a vin check and probably don't know where to look for it. 

Seriously NY is the worst.  I was sleeping in my truck and woke up to a meter maid slapping my wiper down with a ticket under it.  I was waiting for an employee to come out of a building.  They even write you tickets for things that you didnt do in hope that you will just pat it rather then going through the insane hassle of fighting it.

Removal of the plate makes it more difficult and less likely to be ticketed, But no plate is a possible two more tickets (no plate and improperly registered) and possibly a tow.  They can write a ticket using the VIN. 

 8) Monaco is nice place but not exactly representative of the whole of the continent.

And the Mall of America takes up more space than lchtenstien  ;D

Not quite... We can park without a ticket in a parking space for the indicated maximum time. Very nice to not have to feed the meter...

Z...

Here in the uk Bikes dont have to pay for street parking if its the kind where you feed the machine and it gives you a ticket that you 'd put in the car window so the traffic warden can see you have paid.

In big city centres there are dedicated bike spaces but usually in places you wouldnt wanna leave your ducati.  places with high volumes of bus and taxi traffic.

You dont have to pay for bridges or roads or tunnel tolls either.

yeah, that's just dumb luck on your part.

nowadays, if a parking drone comes by, your bike would be towed faster than you can fart.  NYPD bought bike trailers for the tow trucks (no more flatbeds for just one bike).  they have the trailers at the depot and will just pick it up on their way out.