My high beam, turn signal and fuel lights turn on when I switch my high beam on. I have an HID light that comes on with the low beam, the high beam is an incandescent lamp. I may have caused this issue by turning on the low beam before the bike was running (lamp flickers trying to get the HID to light) or I may have done this when I did the "maint" reset. I checked fuses, all good. Turn signals still work. Fuel light is also triggering the "fuel" script on the temp gauge.
Any thoughts or fixes?
The 620s had internal corrosion issues as did all the bikes of that vintage.
It was fine yesterday. Only has 6700 miles and been in the rain once. Only been washed twice now that I think about it and that was 2 years ago.
Doesn't cost anything to pull the housing and look.
That's all I got.
Anything I should avoid touching or can screw up by opening this up? Just don't want to disable the bike by screwing something up with the immobilizer or some other random "ha! shouldn't have done that!" ducati might have thrown in there...
Quote from: Goggles Pizano on August 20, 2009, 03:24:33 PM
Anything I should avoid touching or can screw up by opening this up? Just don't want to disable the bike by screwing something up with the immobilizer or some other random "ha! shouldn't have done that!" ducati might have thrown in there...
I'd disconnect the battery negative before touching it.
Otherwise just don't force anything. ;)
Took the easy way out of the diagnostic. I plugged the old regular incandescent H4 bulb back in and the problems went away.
BUT you've raised an eyebrow of concern with this corrosion issue you speak of... Would it behoove me to take apart the cluster put in a silica gel packet and seal the unit up with silicone? Looking to prevent the corrosion opposed to dealing with it when it happens.
Quote from: Goggles Pizano on August 21, 2009, 02:40:11 PM
Took the easy way out of the diagnostic. I plugged the old regular incandescent H4 bulb back in and the problems went away.
BUT you've raised an eyebrow of concern with this corrosion issue you speak of... Would it behoove me to take apart the cluster put in a silica gel packet and seal the unit up with silicone? Looking to prevent the corrosion opposed to dealing with it when it happens.
The way the factory has it didn't work.
I'd be inclined to try it. I'd check to see how warm it gets first though. You don't want to create a problem correcting another.
Well, it got worse... Now it does not matter what bulb is in or if it is high or low beam. The turn signal and low fuel lights are always on and the high beam indicator no longer works at all.
I've pulled the covers off the instrument cluster and see no corrosion (nothing to corrode there) every thing else seems it would take some force to open up. You already covered that, lol.
Where should I be looking for corrosion (connector pins all look good) and how do I take this apart further without forcing it?
Quote from: Goggles Pizano on August 21, 2009, 05:10:11 PM
Well, it got worse... Now it does not matter what bulb is in or if it is high or low beam. The turn signal and low fuel lights are always on and the high beam indicator no longer works at all.
I've pulled the covers off the instrument cluster and see no corrosion (nothing to corrode there) every thing else seems it would take some force to open up. You already covered that, lol.
Where should I be looking for corrosion (connector pins all look good) and how do I take this apart further without forcing it?
I have no FHE on disassembly.
I suggest you pm 2001 Chromo.
Quote from: ducpainter on August 21, 2009, 05:12:52 PM
I have no FHE on disassembly.
I suggest you pm 2001 Chromo.
Will do, TY for the help so far DP [thumbsup]
I'm thinking the problem may be with the HID system. I would doublecheck all the wiring including the connectors inside the headlight housing. maybe the heat in the housing melted some of the wires and is causing an arc or a short. if you pulled the harness off the back of the gauge housing recently, I would double check you didn't bend any of the connector pins on the back of the housing ( I did that yesterday and caused a bunch of probs with the signals and ignition)
HID system is gone now, pins have been checked (good call and ty [thumbsup]) swapped high beam switch at suggestion of wife (had a scratched up spare from an earlier lay down) Nothing has changed. No HB indicator at all, Lo Fuel and turn signal indicators are always on regardless of actual beam selected.
Bike seems to run fine so far, just hate to get on the highway and have something pop up and REALLY don't want to spend the money on a new unit.
In terms of taking the gauges apart. You'll get to a point Usually after the outer housings are removed and you're left with a PC board and some needles. That's as far as I'd go if I were you.
to take apart it goes in this basic order
1) remove phillips head screw(s) from back of gauges (some years had 1 screw some had 2)
2) remove phillips head screw from bottom (via back) of the idiot lights
3) under the idiot light cover that you just removed is a torx screw that needs to come out
4) now that all the screws which hold the 2 halves of the gauges are out, you can carefully separate (carefull with the rubber gasket in between the 2 halves)
5) the PC board is held in with either 1 screw and/or just plastic snaps that you can carefully separate from the outer edges of the PC board.
** be carefull of the needles and what position they're in and keep them in the same position **
with this much removed you should be able to see if things don't look right. IE corrosion or part failure might be visable. We had one that the actual chip slid off the board so that was pretty clear what the problem was. (or better yet take pictures and post)
goes back together in reverse order. maybe use some type of sealant on the rubber gasket. as the goal here is to keep out moisture.
I personally think the overall design is crap (the achilles heel of that vintage Duc) and will become a bigger problem in the next few years. I really hope I'm wrong and I'm sorry to hear about your troubles.
just re-read the PM
you might also check the wiring at the headstock and see if there's any chewed wires there or at the back where the harness plugs into the gauges. Maybe (hopefully) it's only a short and not an issue with the gauges.
Only have the housing and gasket off so far. I will take pics in the AM to clarify what I am about to take apart...
Dumb question, how do the needles come off?
be VERY careful when removing the needles. I've done this a few times on the monster and its easy to break something when removing the needles. usually, you can pull them up by applying steady, even pressure with two spoons acting as levers. DO THIS VERY CAREFULLY. then there are retention clips that hold the gauge covers to the housing. careful there too. my advice to you is to mark the position of rest of the needles with ignition off using a marker on the inside of the housing (you will only see the marks when the gauge cover and rubber seal are off. When putting the needles back on, nice even steady pressure, but don;t push them too far where the contact the retentions clips (otherwise they stick as they sweep) I always plug in the harness and and let the gauges sweep a ton of times before to test before I close everything up.
Ok, pulled the gauges apart. There was some corrosion around the immobilizer LED, but nothing too bad. I cleaned that up with a tooth brush and it made no difference.
(http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a174/GogglesPizano/CIMG0508.jpg)
Is there an easier way to find a screwed up wire other than cutting the harness apart and tracing each one end to end?
Did you check the harness where it bends around the steering head?
That location has been a source of other electrical problems on many bikes.
I've never heard of your issues being caused by a problem there though.
Do check the harness around the headtube as that is a very likely place for issues...
But I've gotta say, that board you're showing looks all too familiar.
Here's a picture of Michelle's old bozomobilizer board. (realize they're flipped 180 degrees from each other your pic / my pic)
A is the bozomobilzer light
(http://www.industrialgrrrl.com/gauges/gauges6.jpg)
At least your chips haven't slid off, but the corrosion looks the same and in the same place.
To put this into an expensive reality.
The only way you can prove that gauge cluster is failing is to replace it with a virgin new set and confirm the problem is no more. Or find something that's causing you grief in the wiring harness at the front headtube and fix that.
But if it's the gauges, IMHO you're better off changing the ECU for one that doesn't have that bozomobilizer in it cause then your bike will always start.
For just a little more money, I believe you can get a Nemisis ECU that will rid you of the bozomobilizer completely. But I have no FHE with this unit, but have heard nothing but praise from people in this industry that I trust (for example, Doug Lofgren and Bruce Meyers).
From personal experience, I HIGHLY recommend against doing the ECU flash option. That only caused us more grief and loss of money for the flash and left us with a destroyed ECU and a bike that would no longer start/run.
Did you replace or repair the board? I did put a silica gel pack in the housing to dry up any moisture that may get in there. Although I don't think that is my issue. Off to check wires.
Quote from: Goggles Pizano on August 24, 2009, 03:34:56 PM
Did you replace or repair the board?
replaced gauges. Picture above was the first set that came with the bike.
She ended up going thru I believe 4-5 sets total, but I lost count.
From what I've seen over the years, it seems like either people have shit tons of problems with them or none at all.
Quote from: 2001cromo on August 24, 2009, 03:38:31 PM
replaced gauges. Picture above was the first set that came with the bike.
She ended up going thru I believe 4-5 sets total, but I lost count.
From what I've seen over the years, it seems like either people have shit tons of problems with them or none at all.
She lost 4-5 sets due to corrosion?! Or was it something else that caused the replacement? What did you try to keep the moisture out and what is being done now? (I assume you aren't just waiting for the next one to fail...) Hell, I'll run a heating element through there to dry things out if it will work. The ECU/immobilizer isn't the problem
yet.
Haven't looked at the wires yet, too humid as of late. This weekend should give me some time to dig into it. I'll post up what I find.
Quote from: Goggles Pizano on August 25, 2009, 05:42:51 PM
She lost 4-5 sets due to corrosion?! Or was it something else that caused the replacement? What did you try to keep the moisture out and what is being done now? (I assume you aren't just waiting for the next one to fail...) Hell, I'll run a heating element through there to dry things out if it will work. The ECU/immobilizer isn't the problem yet.
Haven't looked at the wires yet, too humid as of late. This weekend should give me some time to dig into it. I'll post up what I find.
Not to speak out of turn, but I witnessed IGs bike as a no start after sitting o/night in the rain.
That's why I mentioned the corrosion issue.
I've seen another similar vintage 620 that was sold rather than replace gauges due to corrosion.
No doubt you were right about the corrosion, so no need to think you are out of turn! I just don't think the cluster is causing my issue as the bike still starts and runs fine. Not to say that it isn't 2 starts away from failing, but it definitely was not the trigger to this issue. It was something I did. I am almost certain it was when I hit the low beam (HID) without the engine running.
It still could be the instrument cluster that I fried and just can't see where, but I'm leaning toward the wires. I DO know that the cluster will be a problem soon (if not already) though... Which does leave me curious as to the suggestions of which ECU to use and no mention of which aftermarket gauges. I understand the need to get rid of the immobilizer, but if the gauges will still fail it seems like an additional maintenance cost that I'm not willing to keep paying. Perhaps a fan or air circulation system installed in the gauge pod... :-\
I know this is an old topic. But I have the same problem. Also a 620ie from 2004
I found an SMD component that was burned out. It is a BAV70 dual diode in a SOT-23 case. It has an A4 printed on it.
As you can see in the picture of "Goggles Pizano" it's burned out too.
(http://i1193.photobucket.com/albums/aa355/neveil/printplaattellerduc5.jpg)
But now the high beam stays also on.
So now I have to find out how to fix that problem.
But then I need a scheme of the print.
Can someone help me with that?