Ducati Monster Forum

    Just wondering, do most people like the SSS on the Monster, or would some like to have the more conventional swingarm?

Conventional and monster aren't two terms that really fit together very well.

monsters have come both ways, buy the one you prefer.

I really like SSS, but they are heavier and flexier than a DSS.

I prefer the SSS on any bike, just for the ease of tire changes, brake pad replacement, plus chain replacement and adjustment that it affords me. Its just so much easier to deal with.

BC.

+1. IMHO, you hit the nail on the head with this answer, plus it looks cool.  [thumbsup]

+1, and the aesthetics, particularly with pipes that open up the rear wheel...

There's so looks an logistics advantages to the SSS - but I like my DSS.  My first ride where I was getting on it with a SSS monster gave me a startle.  I had my foot tucked up tight for a left hander and the arm came up and hit my heel mid way through the turn.  After that, I knew it would happen - but was less than thrilled by the sensation. 

Also, many people have had issues with melty right boots on the SSS bikes.  Not so much an issue on the DSS

My first years on bikes were mostly BMWs and chains weren't nearly as reliable back then.

I love the SSSA for maintenance.  I usually go through several rear tires a year and I can have the rear wheel off in two or three min. - it great.  Add to that, no chain alignment and only one or two adjustments in about 15,000 mi. which is where I change out chains, and I love the things.

I've seen where a couple of members have had their swing arms off for paint and would love to see the weight numbers on SSSA and DSSA.  Everybody says heavier, but I've never seen the numbers.

Oh yea, SSSA look way cool in my book.

LA

.

Not a fan of the SSS. its maintenance benefits IMO don't make up for its extra weight and handling quirks unless you are running endurance races.  Notice that Ducati's serious bikes have DSS.  I believe if the buying public hadn't threw such a fit over the 999 being fitted with a DSS instead of the more fashionable SSS that Ducati would have dropped the SSS altogether.  But the buying public voted with their $$ so the 1098 brought it back.

.

I prefer the DSS for looks and stability.
Also I dig the low mount symmetrical pipes...

What lives in my garage.
 (http://i226.photobucket.com/albums/dd164/dustykitska/P6150001-1.jpg)

Take a 1098S for a spin, let me know how that goes.

"Passengers, please fasten your seat belts, we are prepairing for take off"

didn't seem to keep the 916/955/996/998 from winning all those (sprint) championships...

touché (and that's MY DSS monster in the pic above and in my avatar)  [thumbsup]

I never had both swingarms side by side. But i would say the SBK swingarms are much heavier and made of something tougher than the Monster SSS.

I dont like my SSS. it doenst look very good, but i do like the fact that it opens up the rear wheel. I perfer SBK swingarms.

 I love my sss... Maybe we should do a poll.

I read somewhere that the 999 dssa is something like 7 lbs lighter than a 1098 sssa.  I think that weight was with everything installed, poss. even the wheel.  I like the open wheel look of the sssa, and I cant feel any negative handling efects on my 848.  I do wish ducati had made the s*r swingarm a little shorter, it would look better that way.

Remember, there are a ton more DSS's out there, so lack of knowledge (I'll refrain from using the one word that describes it because people get a bit excited) of both will tilt your poll a bit.

Like I said, both in the garage, love them both, have had DSS Ducati Super bikes, ridden SSS monsters for thousands of miles also.  And without a doubt, the suspension is the key regardless of SS or DS.

They are bolted to Ducati's.         All are fantastic!



OH, My vote: SSS

 

when i was ready to move up to a larger monster, i looked really hard for a dss m1000, because i didnt care much for the sss. didnt want to pay more for it either.

ended up with an s2r1k when i figured out that i could buy it brand new for less than a left over model m1000.

i guess i like the exposed wheel, but hated the pipes (and the right boot melt that others have mentioned.)

i will not buy the new monster, so in the future, i may look harder for an m1000 if a monster is what i am looking for.

I like my 996.

But I'll never sell my carby DSS M900.

It is true. SSS are heaver and more flexy.  My dss weighs 11 lbs where as the Honda SSS weighs in at 20 something, but thats with the hub.

I can see the advantages if your in an endurance race and change the rear tire, but thats it.

Look at all the jap race bikes. They do whatever makes the bike lighter and faster. Havent seen a SSS on them in a long time.

I think ducati does it partially to be more exclusive.

This makes me realize how much i love tricked out Ducati's PERIOD.

I would have already bought a new R1 if it were not for the sexy factor.  The one where you walk into the garage and after all this time your knees want to buckle (then you start it).  [evil]

 :( is it bad i only feel that way SOMETIMES?

If i had a 999, a monster and the new CBR600 with undertail exahust, id feel complete.

I want 'em all !!!

Stay away from the 03 999.  Fact

This exhaust alone is reason enough to buy a CBR

Yeah, those wheel changes are time consuming on a DSS.


Pit Stop Endurance kawasaki team france FIM moto EWC (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K4dNYT3EviQ#normal)




How about front/rear, fuel and driver.  [thumbsup]



Vesrah Pit Stop 1 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o02MpJRENlk#normal)

i thought it was a race and every second counts? or did we forget that?

looking at that video, i cant find one for a SSS. but it would be annoying, simply for the fact that the person undoing the bolt is in the way of hte guy removing the tire.


your not making this any easier.  >:(

Stuart ~ Look what I can do! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WyvbFMGmImg#normal)

doesn't seem to bother the f1 guys:

Formula 1 Pit Stop (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q_A89Tv5Rl4#normal)

another video with two people manning the corner:


http://cache.gettyimages.com/xd/816-48.mov?c=NewsMaker&d=6219724F9FBA0240F594BE60BCAD5C68&k=2&v=1 (http://cache.gettyimages.com/xd/816-48.mov?c=NewsMaker&d=6219724F9FBA0240F594BE60BCAD5C68&k=2&v=1)

HOLY CRAP THATS A GANGBANG! and make the beast with two backs fast too!

I like how the sprocket stays on the swingarm with the wheel removed!  [thumbsup]

the real impressive stuff happens on the front end...

   So what would it take to convert a new Monster 1100 to a DSS? Anyone done it?

Question 1: A welder.
             

I'll trade you your SSS for my 696 DSS.

Going back to the original question...



I always hated the look of the SSS.

I have serious ocd issues with symmetry.

Then I got a bike with one.

First time I changed the rear tire...

make the beast with two backs symmetry.   [thumbsup]

SSS's are great from the open side.........

From the other, not so much

IMHO

The D16RR has DSS, other than that the 1098R has SSS.  I see your logic in that a DSS is probably stronger but you only need it if you are putting out 200+ HP in which a monster never will.

yeah, and the dssa is unattractive from both sides...

Or you could say - reasonably OK from both sides versus really nice on one side and hideous on the other -

On balance it could be that it depends on the viewer :-* [cheeky]

I had a Monster 695 and it had a DSS.  When i saw most Ducati's have a SSS i cried a little bit thinking how much i wish i had that super cool SSS.  Now i have a 1098 with a SSS and a dry clutch.  I am happy  ;D

It's just so goddamn awesome looking!  How many bikes do you see out there with a SSS?  I like being unique......

And the argument of flex and weight can seriously be dropped.  Are any of you professional racers pushing these bikes to the absolute limit? I think not.....I have never seen or felt the arm on my bike "flex" nor have i been bothered by the extra weight. I know the arm weighs more since that genius Durbahn from over the pond converted a 1098 to a DSS and compared the weights.  He however is building race bikes. 

I vote SSS

SSS are pretty. When I told a friend I had a Duc, he asked if it was SSS. It wasn't because he knows much about bikes, but he thought they were pretty. I have a DSS. It has nothing to do with it being lighter; I could stand to lose a sizable amount of weight on the rider before I'd bother with the cost of losing 7 lbs on a swingarm. The swingarm is such a minor detail for me. This thread reminds me of hockey message boards during the off season where people find things to talk about in the lull.

A 916 gives me wood.  I have no idea if that's cuz of the SSS or not. 

I didn't like the SSS on the S*r monster line.  It's since grown on me a bit, but the flowing, organic trellis, combined with the more angular trellis of the frame just didn't jive.  The biggest part of dislike, however, came from the pipe configurations. I don't like high pipes and/or the two-sided shotgun monster pipes.  That dictates a lot of the what kinda of swingarm works visually with the bike.  So when it came time to re-do my monster, we went with a DSS (albeit from a Supersport).

I like 'em on the streetfighter with Termis and the SBKs (and the Speed Triple), just not a big fan on most monsters.  My favorite SSS monsters are the earlier ones where the owners converted to the 916-style SSS.  Somehow it fits better.

Monster DSSs are friggin' ugly...especially the steel ones. If they put a SS (like Spidey's bike) or a fancy trellis DSS on them I might prefer that to the SSS...for looks only, and only on the Monster. Of course, then I see an S2R with Boom Tubes, or the Zard high exhaust, and I like the SSS on the Monsters better as well.

Functionally, the SSS stomps the DSS. I've owned both and I'd be hard pressed to go back to a DSS. The ease of chain adjustment alone is worth having a SSS.

I can't ride well enough to notice a difference in flex or weight from a DSS to a SSS (street or track). I suspect most people can't.The Ducati SSSs also do well in racing...so SSS for me.  [thumbsup]

SSSA's are sexy as hell from one side and 'meh' from the other.

Stock Monster DSS's are 'meh' from both sides but if you've got low-mounts, 70% is covered up by pipes anyhow.

So, on my CR re-build, I went with a custom built DSS seen here:
http://ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=13264.msg460959#msg460959 (http://ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=13264.msg460959#msg460959)

I agree with you there.  I intentially park my monster with the open side facing people and the sss side facing a wall or something.   [thumbsup]  I think the swingarm side is fugly, but the other side is hotness.

spidey, what did you think of the SSS on the m1100? better than the s*r? worse?

Gee, never had a problem with the chains on my BMWs.   ;D

the tubular style SSS are way sexy compared to the new m1100 SSS

Funny, I park my 1098 swingarm facing people (remember, there is also a m1000 Senna DSS sitting in the garage).

All SSS are definitely NOT created equal.


Hell, I wouldn't care if it were twice the weight of a DSS, Look at it  :o

Then again, I weigh 145lbs, have a bike putting out 147hp at the wheel, & live @ 5600ft.

For aesthetics will take either one.  It really depends on the bike. 

I do like low mounts on DSS Monster because the exhausts do cover most of the swingarm and visually break up the line created by the swingarm. 

Plus the low mounts give you a touch point for your heels when you're on the balls of your feet!  [moto]

I think this is a matter of I own DSS so I like DSS.   First, start with the flex and weight argument.

someone show me the stats on how a DSS on a monster has less flex than the SSS and then show me the weight differences.  I've never read anything about the flex problem with the SSS.

After we get done talking about that, then explain to me on what planet the DSS is better looking than the SSS from either side.  The continuation of the trellis frame style into the swing arm is one of the most unique and sexy parts of the bike IMHO.  Even if you don't like it.  Its still better than the steal bars used on the DSS swing arms.  Having said all that I really love the 999/749 so go ahead and flame. 

So, I not only like the SSS over the DSS, I think the SSS on the S*R monster is probably the best looking SSS swing arm ducati has made, aside from the MH900 which also had an awesome trellis style tubular swing arm

(http://www.southbayriders.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=9654&d=1125354785)

(http://www.koups.com/sales/ducati/images/2001/mh900e/MH900e%203%20Quarter.jpg)

(http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r197/vw151/IMG_0066.jpg)

(http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r197/vw151/Picture199.jpg)

(http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r197/vw151/tattoo2030.jpg)

(http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r197/vw151/Ducati%20no%20wheels/rearsprocket.jpg)

(http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r197/vw151/Ducati%20no%20wheels/rearbrakefar.jpg)

Just thought I'd put a few up.  as I am a picture whore. 

vw151, great post (best IMO). MH900... how much sexier can it get?

 

You said it all right there   :P   Funny part, as I have said now many times... we have a DSS on one of our bikes.

"Honey! Where's the cut off wheel?"

This may have been noted already, but the one thing in favor of the DSS is that it would cost less time and money to make.  I still prefer a SSS.

My SSS gives me an excuse to own a massive socket.  [thumbsup]

That's not what she said.   [laugh]

women do judge a man by the size of his tool

The m1100 SSS?  Better.  Much better.  I don't like the bike's overall styling as much, but the swingarm works with it.  As a stand-alone piece, I think the S*r swingarms are cool.  But visually I just don't think they quite fit on the bike. 

Oooooh, I forgot about the SSS on the MH.  Sex-ayyy.   [thumbsup]

i actually like the HM SSS. any reason why it couldnt work on a monster (at least the s*r models?)

(http://motoaus.com/images/stories/storyimages/ducati/hypermotard-2007-chain.jpg)

+1 [thumbsup] ;D

"Flexier" how? I keep hearing this but no one has shown how or why. Anyone?

 [laugh] [laugh] [laugh]

I think the SSS looks great, especially when its painted to match the frame:
(http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d147/pompino/DSCN2399.jpg)

but I'm biased.

That said, the best looking DSS Ducati has made is the swingarm on the Sportclassics...kinda like the one Stew fabbed up.

My terms may be a bit off here but.......
I have personal knowledge of this  [evil]. As you roll on the throttle the chain pulls on the sprocket applying more force to one side of the hub. There is enough flex or play in the swing arm that a transverse rotational force is in action at the rear hub It creates yaw and roll of the rear wheel. On the DSS there are 4 anchor points for this force that help to minimize its effects . You have the two connection points of the pivot axle and the two connection points of the rear axle (Eliminating almost all "roll"). there is some rotational flex (Yaw), but it is minimized by this set up.
 With the SSS you effectively only have three anchor points for this force. The rear hub and the two pivot axle connection points. the rear wheel has much more yaw and roll to it.

I don't think it is a "how much power it will handle" thing.  GP bikes switched to DSS because of the way they can be made to flex.  In racing they have been making chasis less stiff to allow more flex for a suspension effec when the bike is leaned over.  DSS has 4 pivot points so the tire will remain pointed strait.  SSSA has only 2 pivot ponts so the rear whell will turn when the arm moves.  Kevin Camron has mentoined this is his articles in the past, it is thought that this maybe the reson for ducati switching to a cabon fiber frame on the new D16 race bike.

/\
 '
 '

What he said ;D

Ducati still to this day makes all its production frames (for mere mortals) out of steel tubing. If they did not want you to feel the bike working under you, they would have changed materials, or the overall construction of the bikes frame long ago.   There are many manufactures out there today that will sell you a no feed back "Dead" bike.

If all you want is a tight rear end... Weld your swingarm to be a ridged, or get yourself a 25 year old girlfriend.

Ducrider pretty much has it right on the flex issues, but another problem that people often overlook is the change in ride height and swingarm angle everytime you adjust the chain.
I used to do (rudimentary) flex tests with different swingarms by taping things close to tubes, but in a direction you didn't expect them to move and then look for, and measure the travel distance, to a rub mark.
The whole stiffness vs flex in chassis design isn't as cut and dried as some would have you believe. I do agree that aluminum is a "dead" material and always have loved the feel and design "adjustability" of steel.
Most of my riding/testing conclusions are that you want the swingarm and the head tube to be as stiff as possible in order to get better rider "feel". I do, however, have 1 SSS and 1 DSS. My son rides a SSS. They're just cool looking!!
For those who want to pursue subjects like these further, I highly recommend Tony Foale's book: Motorcycle Handling and Chassis Design.

+1 to Pompetta's comment, I have always loved the SSS on my S2R, but as soon as I painted it red to match the bike, everyone now comments on it, they all love it.

I must admit when I saw the SSS in pictures, I never liked it, but when I saw one at my local dealer for the first time, well, I liked it so much, I went and placed an order the next day for my S2R 800  ;D

Agreed, the red painted swing arm looks sweet.  Very MH900 style. 

I have to be careful not to speak out of my ass but what I'm seeing here is actually that the problem with the SSS is that it's usually too stiff and offers no feedback compared to a DSS that can be made flexier but still remain straight under load. 

I have actually spoken to some guys at the ducati shop about this and the aluminum SSS on my S2R is actually very very stiff.  It has to be because it only connects on 1 side.  So not to say that the swing arm is not at a disadvantage compared to a DSS in terms of handling, just clearing up that it seems the problem is the opposite of what everyone is saying.  The SSS is too stiff.    Would you guys say this is correct?

Further.... I agree, the DSS on the sport classic is pretty.  I have always been a Paul Smart lover personally.  I think that bike is sexy.  Especially when taken to the limit and turned into a class specific race bike.  I've seen a few on the forums all decked out with super bike parts and built 1000DS motors.  Hotness!!!!

(http://www.gocyclesport.com/_images/gallery/Paul_Smart_01.jpg)

I agree that it looks better when you paint it the same color as your frame. [thumbsup]

(http://i674.photobucket.com/albums/vv108/ducrider45/000_1298.jpg?t=1251483822)

    I think the reason Ducati uses steel in its frame is because it's cheap to manufacture. I'm bettin they didn't have a group of engineers spend hundreds of hours on frame design. They were probably more concerned with making it look good and safe. And the guys doing the welding are certainly no old Italian craftsmen churning out 1 frame every month. There's probably one welder thats really good, but nobody can get along with. One welder that isn't that great, but kisses the foreman's ass and gets away with murder. And one welder that's always getting his ass chewed for not making his quota. ;D

I would pounce all over this... but based on your other posts... Naaaaaa.




And for the record (your guitarist reference),  Nuno Bettencourt & Brian May.