Ducati Monster Forum

OK so the question I wanted to ask a long time ago was 'what makes good suspension?' and I figured I would get a lot of answers as to who makes good suspension. As I don't know what I don't know and I assume it comes down a lot to personal preference I figured it was too tough a question to ask - and so I didn't.

So now that I have changed a couple of components I have the opportunity to ask the question a little differently ... so how do you know your suspension feels right?

I assume this will be a question just as difficult to answer and will also depend very much on personal preference. There is no doubt that the new setup feels a lot better and I am not about to start playing with settings until I have 'adjusted' ... fine tuning can come after I have experienced a bit more of the 'bulk' tuning [roll].

Assuming the previous setup was 50% there, how do I know what 100% is meant to feel like ... or 90% or 80%?

As for what I have noticed ... everything is a lot firmer, bike corners better and doesn't dive as much under braking but I can now feel sooo much more through the handlebar - every little imperfection in the road.

I know it is all subjective but I am interested in opinions ... you guys have a lot more experience with this stuff than I do. I have read a lot of stuff about tuning the suspension (and will probably read more) but what I want to know is what is it meant to feel like, what should I feel or not feel? Oh and please remember this is not a track bike.

warning: post contains views of a noob:

don't have any more experience than you....but I believe you get to 100% by slowly adjusting and then going 'over-adjusting' a particular variable until the experience falls back down to less than 100%....so compression damping.....stiffer initially feels better (less brake dive, greater stability) but eventually the wheel starts to feel harsh and 'skip' after impacts and I know I've put it up to much.

So in that scenario, let's say I started at 70%, and each turn (and a weeks riding with it) put on 10% (and we're talking only ONE aspect of the performance) after week 3 I was at 100% of correct damping but I needed the next week to go 'over' and decrease to 90% for me to realise that the previous week was better.

Betty...

Suspension is always a compromise and has to be because of all the variables...

Quality of components
Condition of components
Adjustability of the components
Rider imputs/speed
Road suface/condition
and lotsa other things I can't remember...   :-\

But in short the bike should FEEL suspended.   The tyres firmly in contact with the road. No topping out, no bottoming out, no vagueness, no wallowing.   It has to feel right for you, firm but subtle.   This will mean the springs are controlled by the damping settings.  To little damping the bike will be like a pogo stick, to much and the suspenion pack down and feel solid/rigid.

You have to adjust your bike to suit your own riding style. Assuming the suspension components you have are good quality and adjustable.   Lots of suspension has adjustments that just don't work or don't work any more because of age or damage and you will do your head in trying to adjust it...

You can't set it up for all conditions, speeds, corners/bends etc...  It's always a compromise....

I have a particular set of S bends with a rough rail crossing in the middle...  It is a great test for suspension...

There's 2 cents worth...

Ita

 

 looney beet me to it  so sorry if im repeating alot of what looney has said but ive bloody sat there and typed it now .sorry betty theres no such thing as 100% for road riding unless you ride the same piece of road only then you can tailor suspension too suet but its all about compromise but there are the basics that must be applied , and they in order sag, dampening, rebound and of course the quality of suspension there are plenty of articals but you have plenty of people up there that would be able to help like doc and matty that do ride days but the bottom line is it must suet your riding style , and the tyres that you have all play a big part .so start with a friend and adjust your sag too a third then you can play around damperning and preload but start in the nuetal  and write everything down its a long process and takes time  what ever you do the main thing is too not have the bike wallowing under hard accelerating and hard enough with out skipping though corners best of luck  [thumbsup]  cheers  bazz

Get a note pad and write everything down as you do it, and do 1 thing at a time and note down the effect (If any) that you experienced.

Ita's idea of a fave piece of road is a good point to keep a constant in the exercise, adjust and then ride the same piece of road, again and again. (Other constants would be road condition, road and ambient temp, speeds etc.) ;)

I'd start at the front end with spring, then rebound, then compression (if you have all those.)

And when you are satisfied move to the rear. (Keep it clean Jukie  ;D)

Before you would start doing any of this your static ride height should be set and something a lot of riders neglect are the tyre pressures. [roll]

Patience and time and being methodical will give a rider a good handle on what the adjustments do and how they affect the bike. [thumbsup]

 this is from netrider
After reading heaps of questions regarding suspension setup I thought it might be time to write a bit of a generic guide to setting up ones bike.

First up -I am no "expert" or "professional" suspension guru. Just someone who has read & experimented heaps over the years & learnt what works for me (and a few mates willing to listen & experiment)

Second -don't be scared of trying things for yourself. There is no "magic" or "black art" to suspension tuning. Just a few basic principles. All the suspension does is absorb bumps in the road, allowing the tyre to keep providing traction.

Righty oh then. Where to start. Preload. Setting the "sag" The first thing to do is find yourself a helper. Chief measurer. Scribe. Whatever tickles you. Then jack the bike up from the frame, allowing the suspension to extend to its maximum length. Measure from the axle to a fixed point on the frame. Front & rear. Write these measurements down.
Now sit the bike back down on the ground. Bounce it up & down a couple of times. Now measure again. Compare with the fully extended lengths. This should be no more than 10% of the TOTAL amount of suspension travel available. If way outside this range then you adjust the preload settings to suit.

Next -park your fat carcase upon said bike. Put your feet on the pegs. Bounce the bike up & down a couple of times. Do this close to a wall or post so you can hold yourself & said bike upright without taking your weight off the bike. Use your elbow to hold yourself upright. Or your hand. One finger is even sufficient if you get it right. Get your helper to measure again. From the axle to the same fixed point on the frame. Write these measurements down. Compare with the origional fully extended measurements. This figure should be about 1/3 of your bikes TOTAL suspension travel. If heaps less, your spring rates are too hard. If heaps more, too soft. There is no cheap & cheerfull fix here. New springs are in order. Adding preload is not going to help you. Sorry.

Once you have this correct, the fun bit begins. Damping. Compression & rebound. One, both, or neither depending on your bike. Set them to the standard settings. Now go find a bumpy corner. One you can take at about the fastest you reckon you will be riding at. No use setting up your bike for a pace you won't ever ride at. Or where it doesn't really matter. I would err on the side of faster rather than slower. This is where you will pick the real differences, where damping becomes more noticable -at speed.
Now blast around said corner. At speed. How does your bike react over the bumps? Do the wheels deflect & skitter harshly over the bumps? Probably too much compression damping. Does the bike pitch & wallow fore & aft like a ship at sea? Not enough rebound damping. DON'T FIDDLE WITH THE PRELOAD. THIS WON'T FIX IT. You have already set it to suit your weight. Right back at the start of this exercise. i
Now hit the brakes (once you are round the corner of course) Does the bike try to rub its nose on the road? If it does then try adding a bit more compression damping. Once again, DON'T FIDDLE WITH THE SPRING PRELOAD. THIS WON'T FIX IT. As stated above.
Now accelerate hard. Preferably in the lower gears. Does the bike want to squat & drag its butt along the ground like a dog with an itchy @rse? Add a bit more compression damping.
Now blast over a series of bumps. Does the bike comfortably soak up the first couple & then start to feel harsh & deflect off the rest? If so, take out a bit of rebound damping. Does it begin to pitch & wallow? Add a bit more rebound. And so on.
A couple of pointers. Only adjust one thing at a time. That way you will know exactly what is working for you. Or not.
How many clicks to adjust at a time? If your damping has 20+ clicks from soft to hard, I can guarantee you will not be able to feel 1 click either way. Unless your name is Rossi. So go 4 or 5 clicks at at time. This will give you an idea of where you want to go. Then refine it from there. A couple of clicks each way to fine tune things.
However -if you only have 4 positions, then you most likely will be able to feel the change one click makes.
And once more, once you have set the suspension sag (unloaded to loaded), don't fiddle with it any more. The damping does the rest

Thanks peoples. Definitely some good info in there - alot of it relates to what I would have deemed 'fine tuning' which I will get to but want to understand what the bike is doing right or wrong for a while first. I'm a bloke and articulating my thoughts when I am talking about 'feel' is difficult.


These type of comments are great because it ties together terminology with the desired feeling, both good and bad. Thanks Spider.

Ita you nailed it with the 'compromise' comment ... it is what I was thinking especially when I mentioned road riding. But once I start blabbering on (here we go again) I sometimes forget about the important descriptors.


My limited experience on the new setup would indicate that I am keeping better contact with the road ... but I can now really feel the road so it is difficult for me to tell if I am feeling the right things because it is so completed different to before. For example am I confusing 'feel' with unnecessary harshness?

When you are used to the bike pitching around and having to fight with the steering in corners your mind (or lack of in my case) can play tricks on you.


And this where it gets interesting. Everything is so completely different compared to previously that my perceptions really need to adjust first. Bike definitely doesn't squat down under acceleration (but still a little dive under braking/decel). I don't think the bike is skipping through corners (back definitely isn't) but it is firm enough to transmit more vibration through the bars ("road surface noise"?).

Sounds like I am most of the way there to reaching my compromise. Different sections of the road are so completely different I just don't want to go any more insane trying to find my compromise because I reckon my preferences will depend on my mood.


The problem is I tend to over-think things which leads to second guessing, confusion and insanity.

Bazz thanks for the Net Rider quote. Setup and fiddling (I mean fine tuning) info is similar to things I have read elsewhere (mostly on the DMF or links from) but it is the descriptions of what right and wrong feel like that helps most ... must have been written by an Aussie.

Feel free to keep adding to the madness ... it could be useful info for other tortured souls as well.

Maybe a bit late but I will provide some specifics (although most of you already know) ... bike is an '05 S2R 800 previoulsy having stock suspension and settings.

But now things are a bit different: Matris kit in the non-adjustable forks (now with pre-load, rebound and compression adjustment) and a Penske rear shock (also with pre-load, rebound and compression adjustment). Apparently this is not too bad and has been set for my big fat bum by a suspension guru.

It has already changed my riding (after say only 200kms of riding) and I can really use the brakes now ... make the beast with two backs me those 4 pad calipers have some power even with my little baby master cylinder.

im no expert but it sounds that you have fixed it ,and having the rear shock set too your weight is the best mod you can do now all you need to do is get used to it then as confidence gets better and you start pushing harder then you can fine tune dont try doing to much in one go ;what im trying to say get used to your new set up so that when you change things you will feel the difference if you under stand that cheers bazz

hey! who's using my name in vain!
i categorically deny any input whatsoever!!!!, although, there's merit in what bazz, ita and dragonworld have said.
for me, the less i actually think about my suspension, the better it is. that is to say, if i have to think that it's doing this or that then i have to fiddle, but really, after initially setting it up, i've left it alone mostly.
and i'll add, tyre pressure is the NUMBER ONE priority for every bike rider, if you check nothing else, check your tyre pressures before riding, it's amazing the difference a few pounds makes. And the stickier the tyre, the more important the correct pressure is.


paul.

Well I have kept the tyre pressures the same as before. Didn't want to add another variable to the mix.