Just looking at something for the family to tool around the river and sound in. I talked to this guy:
http://providence.craigslist.org/boa/1342727303.html (http://providence.craigslist.org/boa/1342727303.html)
It's 26 years old, but the guy is out on it almost daily (couldn't show it today because he was on the water with it when I called).
He works at the marina it's docked at and sounds like he knows what he's talking about in the 15-20 mins I was on the phone with him. Based on www.nada.com (http://www.nada.com) it's a bit over-priced, but what isn't on CL right? Figure I can talk him down at least a bit.
Anything to look out for? Mechanically it's sound, but it is 26 years old and I expect a few bumps along the way. I'm looking for any MAJOR issues to look out for.
I have never owned a boat and have helmed one once for a short period. I plan on doing a boaters safety course and carrying all of the proper safety equipment.
Let the opinions fly....
Your link is fubared. ;)
Too bad MrI isn't around, he's pretty good with the used boats.
Thanks. Fixed.
Oh, and thanks Nate for moving it. Didn't realize I was in GMF at the time...
did the add specify if the engine was originally a marine engine or not? i would shy away from it if its not.
just my opinion...
What's a "marine" engine?
Marine engines are designed to run constantly at a certain rpm. Not up and down like a road motor. It doesn't say it wasn't a marine engine and from what I have seen on CL, it appears to be an appropriate engine for the boat of the time period....
I built boats for 6-7 years and never heard that. All Mercruiser gave us was auto motors prepped for marine use (exhaust, etc.). We built some of our own as well and inside, it's no different than any other motor.
Hmmmm, that could be, but I have heard otherwise. Maybe that was justification for "marine" engines being more expensive...
I'd check your source. I heard recently that some people believe the sun revolves around the earth but I'm pretty sure they're wrong.
Hahahaha. I know, I've been looking online since you said that and can't find too much about it. Most I've found is that many auto engines are "marinized" by changing things such as the fuel pump, putting spark arrestors on it, etc. to make it more appropriate for the marine environment.
I've also read that some engines are designed as marine engines and rotate opposite of auto engines.
Whatcha say herm?
Quote from: somegirl on August 26, 2009, 03:02:57 PM
Too bad MrI isn't around, he's pretty good with the used boats.
Where is he? Send him a message! I'm looking at the boat this weekend. ;D
Quote from: NAKID on August 26, 2009, 04:15:04 PM
Where is he? Send him a message! I'm looking at the boat this weekend. ;D
can you spell...
Kazakhstan? ;D
Quote from: NAKID on August 26, 2009, 04:08:01 PM
Hahahaha. I know, I've been looking online since you said that and can't find too much about it. Most I've found is that many auto engines are "marinized" by changing things such as the fuel pump, putting spark arrestors on it, etc. to make it more appropriate for the marine environment.
I've also read that some engines are designed as marine engines and rotate opposite of auto engines.
Whatcha say herm?
dont know about the opposite rotation thing, but i think the rest is on track.
would you buy a car with a mercruiser under the hood? i would not.
but I also wouldnt buy a toyota Fj40 that had the inline 6 swapped out for a v-8. or a ford truck with a cummins diesel conversion.
again, just my opinion.
Quote from: herm on August 26, 2009, 05:08:43 PM
<snip> or a ford truck with a cummins diesel conversion.
again, just my opinion.
I'd rethink that. ;D
I've had a bit of experience with boats(Marine mechanic/rigger, boat owner 25 yrs).
First, what do you have to tow and launch it with? You'll need something that'll tow 4000lbs, minimum. 4wd will help with slippery boat ramps as well. Otherwise, you'll need a slip, which means a monthly slip fee. That runs $8-15/foot in my area(Chesapeake bay).
Second, is this the only boat you've looked at? Boat dealers are in horrible shape right now, and it's the end of summer. You should be able to get a much newer boat of the same displacement for that price.
Third, 25 years is a long life for a boat. I can't tell much from the pic, but if it's in the water for the summer, it should have bottom paint. This will need to be renewed every year or two. Good bottom paint runs about $150/gallon.
Inboard/outboard engines are based on automobile engines, but are marinized by replacing starter and alternator with spark protected units. The air filter is replaced with a spark arrestor. These engines are rated in hours instead of miles, and a gas powered marine engine should be ready for a complete rebuild at 1500 hours. If he's used the boat daily for 26 years, what do you want to bet the motor is ready for a rebuild? We're currently building both motors on my 25' Luhrs, and we've put about $4500 in each motor, but we're performing the labor to save money.
Fourth, Do you want a cuddy cabin in a boat this small? It's been my experience that the cabins in anything under 27' are just about useless except for storage. You might consider a bowrider.
Fifth, that boat with that motor should get about 1-1.5 MPG. That boat has a 35 gallon tank. Are you ready to pull up to the gas dock every 30-40 miles? And you thought Ducs had small tanks!
I suggest you try Boattrader.com or BUCnet, and see what's available. If you do go meet with the owner, ask when the last major service was done, and what was done. Look for corrosion on the outdrive, especially on the wings. Look at the outdrive skeg(the fin on the bottom) to make sure it's not chipped or broken(sign that he hit something). Check the outdrive trim and tilt - it should power up slowly for about 10 degrees, then smoothly come up out of the water.
Herm, some marine motors are left hand motors. These are used in larger boats with twin engines so that the props turn in different directions, cancelling out any tendency to push the boat sideways as well as forward. These engines have exactly the same internals as right hand engines, they're just timed differently.
If you've bought a GM product with a 4-cyl, straight 6, or V-8 in it, you had a Mercruiser engine under the hood. Mercruiser, OMC(Bombardier, now), Marine power, etc, all use GM blocks for their motors. The only exception is Volvo.
For a first boat, I can think think of a lot better options for $3000...
26 years old - likely a lot of little problems
It is a big boat for "tooling" around
Like was mentioned, 4000lbs to pull it easy.
mitt
nope.
i know the cummins is a good motor. but until ford trucks come off the assembly line with a cummins under the hood, its not for me. i personally try to avoid that kind of drastic after market conversion.
edit: and no....ford does not own cummins
I'll ask him.
When I was younger I worked on boats, and generally Inboards and IO's are automotive engines with marine parts (sometimes heads, intakes, pumps, and headers).
An older picky customer's marine chevy 305 had cracked heads and block, and we had explicit instructions to "not change a thing". Rather than fix it, we got a GM crate remanufactured 350 and dropped it in without telling him the displacement difference - he really thought the boat ran well after we were done with it.
mitt
Quote from: herm on August 26, 2009, 05:40:20 PM
nope.
i know the cummins is a good motor. but until ford trucks come off the assembly line with a cummins under the hood, its not for me. i personally try to avoid that kind of drastic after market conversion.
edit: and no....ford does not own cummins
they used to.
Quote from: ducpainter on August 26, 2009, 05:50:14 PM
they used to.
while it is true that they owned a small stake in shares at one point, it was never enough to come close to claiming "ownership." the rest is diesel truck mythology.
in fact, today you can purchase a brand new f650 with a cummins medium truck engine in it, stock. but unless dodge dumps cummins for an in house motor, there probably wont be any factory super duties with a cummins.
Quote from: Bun-bun on August 26, 2009, 05:26:41 PM
Herm, some marine motors are left hand motors. These are used in larger boats with twin engines so that the props turn in different directions, cancelling out any tendency to push the boat sideways as well as forward. These engines have exactly the same internals as right hand engines, they're just timed differently.
If you've bought a GM product with a 4-cyl, straight 6, or V-8 in it, you had a Mercruiser engine under the hood. Mercruiser, OMC(Bombardier, now), Marine power, etc, all use GM blocks for their motors. The only exception is Volvo.
thats great info, but it takes away from the point (which was/is heavily influenced by personal opinion) that i was trying to illustrate. [laugh]
09 F150 FX4 with max tow package will be towing it. Didn't plan on slip rental, planned on storing it at my storage unit (outside).
I haven't even looked at the boat yet, but have been perusing CL in the past few days. It's just one I'm looking at.
The guy may be overstating the mileage, but he told me where he's been since the last fill up and it's considerably more than 30-40 miles and still had a 1/4 tank left.
I hadn't checked dealers because I didn't think there was anything they had in my pricerange, I'll look at the sites you mentioned.
This is the kind of input I'm looking for. Keep it up!
boats are money pits. [thumbsup]
What isn't?
Quote from: NAKID on August 26, 2009, 07:09:38 PM
What isn't?
I could think of a lot of other things that aren't.
Based upon where you are living, you have a pretty short boating season. Personally, I'd only own a boat if I had full season access or a lake house which I lived on, where I could boat nightly if I wanted.
just my opinion....
Your boating season in CT is similar to mine here, as far as weather/water temperature.
Also, owning a boat = less leisure moto time.
more power to you if you get one........I'd love a boat, just not right now [thumbsup]
Quote from: cyrus buelton on August 26, 2009, 07:12:30 PM
Also, owning a boat = less leisure moto time.
True, but it also means more family time...
Quote from: NAKID on August 26, 2009, 07:14:35 PM
True, but it also means more family time...
[thumbsup]
my retirement plan involves a houseboat.
Wake up, get some coffee and go fishing without leaving the kitchen.
Quote from: redxblack on August 26, 2009, 07:44:49 PM
my retirement plan involves a houseboat.
Wake up, get some coffee and go fishing without leaving the kitchen.
[laugh] [laugh] [laugh]
I've got a friend who's parents have one on Cumberland.
holy shit, that thing is nice!
Feedback from MrIncredible (edit: who can't respond himself as he is in Kazakhstan right now):
There's a number of things that would turn me off that boat.
1) No mention of a rebuild at any point. That motor is most likely tired as shit.
2) No mention of recent bottom paint. We used to do it every season.
3) It's dirty. No self-respecting boat owner keeps a boat dirty. It's not like a naked bike with a million nooks and crannies-bust out the hose and the scrub brush. To put it another way, the most slovenly person we've ever known keeps his boat clean.
4) That price is high for what it is. To put it in perspective, about four years ago I bought a 27' Bayliner for $1500. Granted, the floor needed to be redone and I replaced the motor, but given that this one most likely needs a new motor anyway, that should tell you something.
5) From what I hear about century boats, the ride is wet and rough, more so than the average small boat.
6) A cuddy cabin that size is essentially useless. It just accumulates crap and would be too stuffy to want to shelter from the elements anyway. AKA you're buying a 21' boat but not getting 21' worth of space.
7) It's fuggggly!
I would keep looking-it's end of season there-deals can be had. Things to look for and consider in a boat:
- Recent survey-has it had one? You *need* one. Expect about $20 a foot in terms of cost to have one done. I would not trust one more than 6 months old-it may have developed new issues which are not in the survey.
- Do you see any apparent water lines inside the boat or on the engine? If there's a line of rust on the motor, with a mush less rusty area above it, it indicates it's had too much water in there at some point.
- Does the prop move up and down or to the side? If so, your outdrive needs work.
- The deck should not have soft spots.
- There should not be cracks in the gelcoat.
- The tilt should work smoothly, so should the steering. The transmission should not clunk.
- Check the motor-sniff the oil-look at the transmission fluid. Is there good water flow through the motor?
- Mismatched paint is a sign of repairs.
- The cuddy cabin should have no smell of must, or signs of leaks around the portholes/cabin door. These things would require additional work.
- Make him take you out in the boat. See how it feels underway. You should be allowed to drive it. Check all the gear, including the radio.
- Boat must be inspected out of water.
- Check the hull identification number, check the boat/trailer paperwork.
In other things, trailering is a royal pain in the ass. Takes more time, a number of additional costs, and typically causes the boat to be used less. Consider a slip or a mooring. There's something nice about merely needing to fill the cooler, check the gear, and take off.
If you buy something let me know-I can give good outfitting advice.
You can also build a boating simulator. Just put on all your clothes, stand in a freezing cold shower, and tear up $100 bills. ;)
Wow - you're good.........and a chick as well!!! [bow_down]
Quote from: Norm on August 27, 2009, 06:49:37 AM
Wow - you're good.........and a chick as well!!! [bow_down]
Thank you, I wish I could take the credit but actually that is from my husband who is overseas for work right now. ;)
He spent several years working on boats.
i want a boat too.
something like an old glasstron in metallic green or orange. 8)
lucky for me wife said no.
you should be able to get a pretty decent older boat for $3k.
quick example on first page of CL
1984 Bayliner $3000
(http://images.craigslist.org/3nc3ke3o15P55Sb5R598q92adb330eca31dff.jpg)
The fishing boat I go on occasionally is about the same age and size as the one from the first post. I can tell you the cuddy cabin is nothing more than a rope locker and a spot to store unused tackle boxes. Being under deck with the hatch closed is a very claustrophobic experience.
Here's the most recent one I have been looking at:
http://worcester.craigslist.org/boa/1326904366.html (http://worcester.craigslist.org/boa/1326904366.html)
It's a 91 the guy says they are flexible on the price (good, I don't want to pay that much) it has been ran this year, rebuilt motor 5 years ago but "not a lot of miles on it since then", never been in salt water.
I was thinking of offering him $3k once he send a few more pics since it's 2 hours away and go from there. I think the most I would offer is $4k...
Do they have a survey?
Oh, another thing. I called the base marina. Slip fees are $25/ft for the winter season and $50/ft for the summer season. Not bad compared to the other areas around here. It's on base (read: secure) and 24hr access...
Quote from: somegirl on August 27, 2009, 08:31:31 AM
Do they have a survey?
I'm not sure what a survey is. I didn't ask him, but he has not responded to my least email yet (~30 mins ago).
I like that the motor and outdrive were rebuilt. 305s are not my favorite motor in, well, anything, really, but if it's rebuilt that's reassuring. And outdrives can be expensive as all get out to rebuild.
That being said my experience is more in ski boats.
Why are you looking at cabin cruisers?
mitt
Room to grow.
I'm On A Boat (ft. T-Pain) - Album Version (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R7yfISlGLNU#ws-normal)
(sorry...reminded me of this)
I'm keeping my options open. Bowriders are on the plate as well...
even though i might get punched in the head later.....
i think you would be pretty happy with a bow rider, given size and expectations.
otherwise, pushing up toward 25 feet will give you a cuddy that is actually useful.
Quote from: NAKID on August 27, 2009, 08:35:44 AMI'm not sure what a survey is. I didn't ask him, but he has not responded to my least email yet (~30 mins ago).
http://lmgtfy.com/?q=boat+survey (http://lmgtfy.com/?q=boat+survey)
Quote from: somegirl on August 27, 2009, 04:45:26 AM- Recent survey-has it had one? You *need* one. Expect about $20 a foot in terms of cost to have one done. I would not trust one more than 6 months old-it may have developed new issues which are not in the survey.
Did you not bother to read all the helpful advice that you specially requested from Kazakhstan? [roll]
I read it, but it didn't actually say what one was.
I understand it to mean like a home appraisal when you are buying a new house.
It just sucks that I'd be paying ~$400 for something I may end up not buying, you know?
Quote from: NAKID on August 27, 2009, 12:34:36 PMI understand it to mean like a home appraisal when you are buying a new house.
It just sucks that I'd be paying ~$400 for something I may end up not buying, you know?
Think of it more like the termite inspection - the seller should pay for it and it should really be done before they list it for sale.
So far no one I have talked to has done one. One guy told me if I wanted one it would run me about $500...
Dude, buy my boat! PLEASE!
Break
Out
Another
Thousand
http://washingtondc.craigslist.org/mld/boa/1334408184.html (http://washingtondc.craigslist.org/mld/boa/1334408184.html)
Sold! Unfortunately I only want to spend about 25% of your asking price...
http://www.projectboats.com/whiskeysub.html (http://www.projectboats.com/whiskeysub.html)
Quote from: NAKID on August 27, 2009, 01:43:42 PM
Sold! Unfortunately I only want to spend about 25% of your asking price...
This one is good for three hour tours:
(http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/uu82/jshoward11/full-ssminnow-cp-5506770.jpg)
Quote from: ducpainter on August 27, 2009, 02:00:32 PM
http://www.projectboats.com/whiskeysub.html (http://www.projectboats.com/whiskeysub.html)
Price $497,000 USD
Just a bit out of my price range...
Quote from: NAKID on August 27, 2009, 02:20:44 PM
Price $497,000 USD
Just a bit out of my price range...
It says they'll deliver.... [laugh]
Quote from: ducpainter on August 27, 2009, 02:00:32 PM
http://www.projectboats.com/whiskeysub.html (http://www.projectboats.com/whiskeysub.html)
If someone advanced you the 500k, one trip down to south america and bring a sub full of blow back into the US will take care any issues with money the rest of your life..........
Wasn't Fraida Felcher from Cranston?
there are two happy days for a boat owner.
the day you buy....
and the day you sell.
The second boat looks to be the better of the two, but IMO it looks like a pretty cramped cockpit. The sun lounge/engine hatch takes up a lot of space aft, and will inhibit fishing and tying up at the dock, and the cabin takes up space forward, leaving you with room to seat four, but not move around much.. It's nice that the engine/outdrive have been rebuilt, IF the seller has paperwork to prove it.
You probably won't find a boat with a recent survey, but it's not hard to find a surveyor. Most people don't have boats that small surveyed anyway, again IMO.
A quick search on boattrader.com found 6 in your area under $4500.
I am not sure a survey applies to a $4000 boat. Why spend 10% of the price to survey it? I have never heard of it myself.
mitt
Quote from: herm on August 27, 2009, 02:45:47 PM
there are two happy days for a boat owner.
the day you buy....
and the day you sell.
This is bullshit pushed by people who do not love the water. ;D
you can pry this boat out of my cold, dead hands.
(until I buy a bigger one...then you can buy it for a completely fair price).
;D
(http://i223.photobucket.com/albums/dd110/grumpylawyer/IMAGE_245.jpg)
and as for a short, fun threadjack, why would a real boat need a motor? ;D
(http://i223.photobucket.com/albums/dd110/grumpylawyer/DSC00146.jpg)
Quote from: Statler on August 27, 2009, 05:35:31 PM
This is bullshit pushed by people who do not love the water. ;D
+1
Last week:
(https://farm4.static.flickr.com/3006/3863850574_2561334b97_o.jpg)
(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2599/3863067013_f8034de385_o.jpg)
mitt
Quote from: Statler on August 27, 2009, 05:42:02 PM
and as for a short, fun threadjack, why would a real boat need a motor? ;D
Couldn't agree more! ;)
(http://paularickert.net/albums/userpics/bill15.jpg)
'Cause this guy has no sailing skills...
Quote from: Statler on August 27, 2009, 05:42:02 PM
and as for a short, fun threadjack, why would a real boat need a motor? ;D
(http://i223.photobucket.com/albums/dd110/grumpylawyer/DSC00146.jpg)
Because we're not lawyers...
and would have difficulty filling that sail should the wind die. ;D
looks like nice day out, Mitt.
We have soooo many pics of the little one in swimmies/floats/jumping off the side of the boat.
water temp in the Bay here in the low 80s. Very nice right now.
we like the look on the powerboat guys' faces when we back Pisces up to the beach like that. Her mast is 38 feet, but with the board up she draws a foot and a half.
somegirl, sweet! we have an inflatable catamaran kayak we take cruising with us that will hold three (sort of). lots of fun. I'd love a big tandem sea-kayak.
ok....sorry....end threadjack by boat lovers that have no input on actual thread topic. promise.
Quote from: ducpainter on August 27, 2009, 05:49:17 PM
Because we're not lawyers...
and would have difficulty filling that sail should the wind die. ;D
everyone's a comedian.
[laugh]
bastid.
Quote from: ducpainter on August 27, 2009, 05:49:17 PM
Because we're not lawyers...
and would have difficulty filling that sail should the wind die. ;D
[laugh] [laugh]
Quote from: Statler on August 27, 2009, 05:49:54 PMsomegirl, sweet! we have an inflatable catamaran kayak we take cruising with us that will hold three (sort of). lots of fun. I'd love a big tandem sea-kayak.
I wish it were mine, sadly it's not, but I had a great time spending a week in it in the San Juan Islands.
A sea kayak is definitely high on my wishlist. :)
Quote from: NAKID on August 27, 2009, 05:44:40 PM
'Cause this guy has no sailing skills...
Join a sailing club, you'll get lessons and use of the boats for a small fee and a little bit of time put in (at least that's how it works around here). Far better deal than owning your own boat unless you are going to be on it all the time.
Quote from: Statler on August 27, 2009, 05:42:02 PM
and as for a short, fun threadjack, why would a real boat need a motor? ;D
Agreed completely.
I have been sans motor for most of my boating life (since I was about 2 years old).
This is my first water hobby, that I still enjoy more than motor boating:
wenonah 16'
(https://farm4.static.flickr.com/3509/3863138967_2f6374b065_o.jpg)
(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2584/3863922308_5d6e403795_o.jpg)
(https://farm4.static.flickr.com/3052/2915703695_0200aa847b.jpg)
(https://farm4.static.flickr.com/3110/2915704765_f46c288fe2.jpg)
;D
Quote from: Statler on August 27, 2009, 05:42:02 PM
and as for a short, fun threadjack, why would a real boat need a motor? ;D
Though I also prefer a sail...apparantly if you call for help/break down/run into problems around here (So Cal) the Coast Guard will ask if you are in a pleasure craft or a sailboat. :)
Quote from: ducpainter on August 27, 2009, 05:49:17 PM
Because we're not lawyers...
and would have difficulty filling that sail should the wind die. ;D
[laugh] [clap] [laugh]
you funny ;D
Hmm, why would this bicycle need a motor??
Some of us need to break "No Wake Zone" speeds when we are out of the no wake zone!
:-)
The real reason to own a boat-
http://www.holytaco.com/25-sexy-girls-boat-pics (http://www.holytaco.com/25-sexy-girls-boat-pics)
The link is not work safe in case anyone was dumb enough to think otherwise.
Quote from: JEFF_H on August 28, 2009, 06:09:04 AM
The real reason to own a boat-
http://www.holytaco.com/25-sexy-girls-boat-pics (http://www.holytaco.com/25-sexy-girls-boat-pics)
note to self - look at tonight at home...
mitt
Quote from: rgramjet on August 28, 2009, 02:49:36 AM
Hmm, why would this bicycle need a motor??
Some of us need to break "No Wake Zone" speeds when we are out of the no wake zone!
:-)
that's why I sail a boat that regularly cracks fifteen knots. Above that speed I do need to put down the beer and pay attention though.
Sent this guy an email
http://hartford.craigslist.org/boa/1346770240.html (http://hartford.craigslist.org/boa/1346770240.html)
NADA values it with a low retail with no options at $19k
eagerly awaiting his response.
Quote from: NAKID on August 28, 2009, 09:12:24 AM
Sent this guy an email
http://hartford.craigslist.org/boa/1346770240.html (http://hartford.craigslist.org/boa/1346770240.html)
NADA values it with a low retail with no options at $19k
eagerly awaiting his response.
Flagged for removal. Probably a scam.
That sucks, but it figures right?
It was a 2001 Sea Ray 245 Weekender listed for $5900.
http://providence.craigslist.org/boa/1346507601.html (http://providence.craigslist.org/boa/1346507601.html)
I keep looking at stuff like this:
(http://newimages.yachtworld.com/2/0/7/5/2/2075252_1.jpg?1250776613000)
http://www.yachtworld.com/boats/1980/Mason-Center-Cockpit-Ketch-2075252/Stuart/FL/United-States (http://www.yachtworld.com/boats/1980/Mason-Center-Cockpit-Ketch-2075252/Stuart/FL/United-States)
Problem is... All I can do is look. :(
i am constantly looking at these.
(http://www.royalnavy.mod.uk/upload/img_400/rib.jpg)
same result........just lookin.
Quote from: herm on August 28, 2009, 10:14:54 AM
http://providence.craigslist.org/boa/1346507601.html (http://providence.craigslist.org/boa/1346507601.html)
O.K., that looks like a good boat.
Quote from: herm on August 28, 2009, 01:28:35 PM
i am constantly looking at these.
(http://www.royalnavy.mod.uk/upload/img_400/rib.jpg)
same result........just lookin.
Good thing they're braced, but I still think the landing is gonna hurt!