Ducati Monster Forum

I spoke with the shop owner where I got my rear suspension set up this morning and told him the 696 owners have really no off the shelf option to upgrade the front suspension. He said umm what? I told him I've checked almost every company and no one offers an upgrade for the 696. He said he has already installed RT internals on 2 or so 696's.
According to the shop owner, Race Tech has an upgrade for the 696 but it's not official yet. I guess it's in the beta version. He said he could fix me up whenever. He knows Paul over at RT. I think I'm going to take him up on his offer in the next few weeks.  [drink]

It seems like the 696 has become the forgotten platform. There are off the shelf aftermarket wheels for our bikes, no suspension stuff (front), no full exhaust, etc..  :'(

that's great news for the 696. hopefully it's priced well.

as far as full exhaust... no need for it... the stock exhaust is an open system once you take the cats off with the stock exhaust. the 1100 only has it because of the exhaust valve. bet if that wasn't there they probably wouldn't market one for it either

i think by next season there will be a lot more 696/1100 parts from aftermarket manufacturers.

I didn't realize the 1100 had a valve back there. Haven't been keeping up with it. Good to know though.  8)

Yeah I have my fingers crossed on more aftermarket support for the 696.

I guess it depends on dealer to dealer but my guy is quoting way less than $1000 for the set up. I would say roughly mid $600's. That includes all parts and labor OTD. I'd rather let them do it because I don't have the time or tools to pull something off like that. Plus I get the added benefit of setting it up right from the get-go.

BTW Raux, I haven't been keeping up with the threads but just read what happened to your 696. Damn.. Glad everything is a-okay.  [beer]

yeah working on a my own new 696 front end now :(

  I called race tech and kinda got the same answer with them saying if I ship them my forks, they could do some minor work to them.
 I ordered a new Ohlins shock from Kyle racing this morning and asked them if they could do anything with the forks and they said they could do some mild work because of the type of fork, but I should get major improvement from the new shock I ordered.

here's the prolem with the 696 forks. from what i can see, you can't just replace the internals. only one side has a damper. and only one axle mount has a hole for mounting a damper. therefore, no fork upgrades with two dampers will fit unless you drill out the bottom of the other axle mount or replace your entire front end. the only replacements that wouldn't need new brake calipers would be 848, M1100 or 1098 forks. i think this is pretty certain.

Anybody talked with Traxxion Dynamics yet?

It's a no go with them. Spencers696 had a rough time with Traxxion as indicated in his post on the other forum.

That's really disappointing because they were such a pleasure to work with on my M900.

But i definitely don't check TOB for posts so if its not here or on Ducati.ms, i'm out of the loop

Any options with Dept. of Susp?

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Here ya go:
 

 Traxxion+696=FAIL

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The 696 forks and the Traxxion AK-20 kit saga.

I have had success with their products in the past, and almost wrote them off for this project because I have had "disagreements" with them as far as set up and their idea of customer service, but Mike assured me that the AK-20 install with adjustable caps for the 696 Showa forks where "no problem"

Every question I asked was met with the answer "no problem" when I told him about the cartridge/damper setup and sent him the parts and assembly diagrams he said "no problem" when I asked him to confirm because dropping off and picking up the forks would be costing me two days out of my vacation and a 5 hour drive (2-1/2 each way from where I was staying) each trip he said "no problem, drop them off and we will get them done for you".
When I dropped them off 10am Monday I again asked for them to look at them because I wouldn't leave them if there was any concern (and save the return trip) I again received the same "no problem".

Wel....I get off the river Tuesday, pull my phone out of the dry bag, and I have a voice mail from Dan at Traxxion and "we have a problem".

I called and was informed that they could not do the install...period.
was given a bunch of lame excuses, he even messes up and said that they are not like any other Marzocchi forks they had done, then I reminded him that they where Showa's. I asked if they had been disassembled for evaluation and he said that they had been but where back together and ready to be picked up.

When I picked them up Friday there was no indication that they had disassembled the forks, my box that I built for transport that had fitted foam inserts (since I was traveling over 2500 miles with them) had been thrown away. My shotgun sleeves that I had them covered with had to be "found" as my forks where laying bare on the floor in their shipping office when I arrived. While waiting for my sleeves they where treated to a rather animated dissertation of my thoughts that luckily did not end in the need for police involvement.

So the search continues and the answer will probably be waiting for complete replacements to become available (Ohlins said that none of their current offerings are a direct bolt on) and to say the least...this is the last dealing I will ever attempt with Traxxion.

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Hmm... while i won't doubt the contents of the story or the teller, its just far from the dealings I've had with them in the past.

Bummer for both parties. I will say, however, that this is not the first time Ducati has kind of dicked over the consumer by fitting a bizarre fork on the bike. (Other example is the non-adjustable marz forks that had to have specialty cartridges from only one or so 3rd party vendors...)

Life would be easier on us all if they would stick with a standard 3-way adj. fork that would be the standard model on all non-S models, and the S-models having the trick suspension.

this is what i thought. i bet it's the lower axle mount that doesn't have the damper screw hole that is screwing things up.

eww. that would definitly cause problems.

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Yes, that was a problem, even though we discussed it before I made the trip. [roll]
They also said that it would require a bunch of machining including one off caps because of the thread pitch ??  My Honda Showa caps thread right on so ?
I was really made to feel like they just didn't want to be bothered, since they suggested if I sent them in during their slow part of the year they would take another look.  Uh.....no.


Installing the rear Ohlins really transformed the handling enough that I am going to just live with it for now. The way I change bikes this one probably will have a new owner fairly soon anyway [cheeky]
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I've emailed Rick at http://motocd.com/ (http://motocd.com/) about the same situation. he said once he takes them apart and looks at them... same answer. I can't afford to send them from germany for a $100 dollar no +shipping costs. I'm gonna take some good pics and email them to him for a more definitive answer.

I'm content with the re-valving of the 696 forks by Race Tech. I know it's not a full blown upgrade but anything is better than nothing at this point.  :-\
I rode this past weekend on some twisties and it felt great. Tweaking the front a bit should be enough for my riding style.

But yes, replacing the rear shock made a huge difference in handling.

What rear shock did you upgrade to?

Ohlins

Sorry, should of been more specific, which model#?

Ok, if you had NO front end on a 696...
What would you put there? (reasonably priced or used)
I want to keep my stock brake Calipers, that's the only thing left from my bike. Which is what is making things difficult to find. The radial mounted brakes are only on the newer Ducati bikes. Also the length of the 696 stock forks seems there will be issues using just any fork.
Luckily I also have no triple clamps.
So, triples, forks, wheel and mounting... all have to be replaced.

superbike? see if there will be problems with the steering stem and all that, but you could try to snag some of that stuff. or off an  ST.

how about a SF ? the only problem i see with using the SF is the 330 vs 320 mm brake rotors... but since i also need new brake rotors.... the travel length is almost identical also.
what would be the steering stem problem? length?

I think the 1098 uses spacers to between the caliper and the fork.  People who have put monoblocks on 848's with 320mm rotors have said they are bolt on.  So the same may be true on the Street fighter.  What is the legnth of the 696 forks?  The GSXR front end swap is popular on the older monsters, you maybe able to keep your radial brakes if the bolt spacing is the same.  999s/r maybe another option too look into for ducati radial mount forks.

that's a good point. maybe the SF radial brake mounts have a 5mm spacer on them to make the 330 discs work.
Anyone able to verify this with their new street fighters (Calling Asado!)

This picture shows no spacers?

(http://i329.photobucket.com/albums/l394/stopintime/StreetFighter014.jpg)

actually ... didn't know that... SF uses a front mount speedo sensor.
but there does look like they have 5mm washer/spacers.
wonder what the brake offset is.

That pic show the bracket for the front speed sensor for the traction control acts as the spacer.  The other side prob just has washers.  I do not know about the rotor offset on the SF or the 696.  My '04 monster measures 11.6mm from inside edge to inside edge of the rotors.  My 848 measures 12.5mm from inside edge to inside edge.

so not only do i have to know the brake rotor offset (10mm on the 696) i have to know the fork caliper mount distance to the rotor... UGH

why is this SOOO hard.  [bang]

that's what she said

I agree with Raux. This seems way too hard. I've been attempting to find something, anything, to do with the front forks. The best I can see (best being easiest) would be to order 1100 or 1100s forks. But the cost seems so extravagant for just replacement items. Additionally, it appears as though work would need to be done to the triples if the super expensive Ohlins replacements were ordered for the front. I'm not even sure what other sorts of issues would arise (for example, just from looking at the parts catalogs for the 696 and the 1100s, the brake calipers have different part numbers). I'm assuming that in the end, one of us will simply end up ordering stuff and attempting to fit it. Hopefully whomever that may be (who knows, maybe it will be me) documents the process so that the rest of us too scared, cheap, or lazy to attempt such an impressive mod could follow in their footsteps.
Stupid 696 forks. Bleh.

I just did a quick search on ebay:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Ducati-848-1098-1198-Showa-Radial-Front-Forks-Fork_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp3286Q2ec0Q2em14QQhashZitem518cfa1a9dQQitemZ350257552029QQptZMotorcyclesQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Ducati-848-1098-1198-Showa-Radial-Front-Forks-Fork_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp3286Q2ec0Q2em14QQhashZitem518cfa1a9dQQitemZ350257552029QQptZMotorcyclesQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories)

Just in case that doesn't work: used, straight SB forks for $599. I think one 1100s Ohlins is like $2500 or some such nonsense. ONLY ONE FORK!

Huge difference in buying new parts from dealer vs. used parts on eBay. See also Gotham Cycles.

That is true.

However, if I'm going to do some research and development, I'm not sure I'd want to spend a load of cash at the dealer on stuff that may not work. I haven't heard any conclusive information about what possible configurations of aftermarket forks / front end components would work in concert.

I'm thinking that maybe I could attempt to find cheap used parts, get them in a working config, sell them after achieving proper fitment if they are sub-par or rebuild them, then buy new parts from the dealer to finish out the job if necessary.

Not sure about this approach as I've never done it. Just an idea I'm toying with...

i'm working on a solution. will let you know if it works

Awesome! Thanks Raux. Good luck with your solution.

in the meantime... indyducati.com has adjusted the stock forks on a 696.

one of our own is fixing his 696 up nicely for track use.

http://www.indyducati.com/articles/view.asp?id=264 (http://www.indyducati.com/articles/view.asp?id=264)

Good read. Definitely something I'd like to try. Sadly, I'm not 100% confident of how to revalve my fork. I think I should study up more. Still looking forward to seeing what you might come up with, Raux.

I bet that you could easily adapt mid-2000 gsxr forks to the 696 as they have radial brake mounts, and are very inexpensive used. There are many of them on ebay.

(http://i.ebayimg.com/20/!Bbk)nSQ!mk~$(KGrHgoH-EMEjlLlwLjKBKwoC)e0jg~~_12.JPG)

well just an update.

the older monster forks specifically the s*r forks are too short for the new monster. it would lower the 696 an inch.

the lowers are different as well. the new radial showa lowers use the side valve for the adjustability, the older forks used the bolt at the bottom.

back to the drawing board.

older older showas, which would work for you - 3-way adj showas, had back side adjusters for the valve on the lower, not through the axle. they were not radial mounts for brakes though.

just don't want you to chance it and find another dead end.

wait, lower it an inch? Are you sure? I'm staring at a 696 right now, and the forks stick out above the triple nearly an inch... perhaps those older forks would sit flush with that triple.

the older showa superbike forks (which i found for an Aprilia) did have the rear adjusters, but all the monster showa adjustables i saw had it in the axle area. also i supposed 30mm would lower it to the stock triple. it's a drooped triple, but i have a new flat triple. so i lost that already.

Why not just do the fork upgrade that has already been done/proven to work using the 1098 forks?

i.e....
http://ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=36913.0 (http://ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=36913.0)

Look for the older 40mm mount forks. Also, SS forks were longer than M forks, iirc

i was thinking about the ss forks. the issue with the lowers is the valve for the adjustable. the newer showas have a place for the valve on the side.

yea the 848/1098/late 999 forks would be the best solution but the most expensive. i have 2 weeks to get this together and the money is for the trip to WDW.

at this point if i can't figure something out for the forks with the stuff at the shop, i won't have a way to get to WDW.

why is the location of the valve adjustment an issue? You are losing me there.

There are good deals for 1098 forks popping up on ebay every now and then... I was able to get a set of pristine 1098 forks, with a lower clamp for $500.... They should be arriving today. A good friend does machine work so I should be doing an install soon....

I do believe the only difference between the 848 and 1098/1198 Showa forks is the slider coating. The part numbers are different, but I can see no other differences. I don't have the valving side-by-side on the bench to compare though.

the older showa forks had the lower valve inside the axle area. the newer showa forks have it outside on near the brake mounts. the 696 lowers have a place for a valve but it needs to be drilled and tapped (real pain). what is more of a pain is making the 696 lowers fit an older showa.

basically the older showas had a 27mm hole threw the lower axle surround into a recess about 8mm deep with a 15.5mm hole x 8mm deep then another inner recess of @22mm x8mm deep

the 696 only has an 15mm hole on the lower surround and one hole for a single metric bolt on the left (or right, can't remember) fork. the inner seat for the damper is wider and more shallow.

there's enough material to make the seat and hole for the damper inside and valve. but the lower axle support really isn't designed for such a large 27mm hole (big enough to fit a 19mm socket)

who cares what is on the 696 from stock? you are getting rid of those I thought.

You wouldn't put 696 lowers on another fork. You'd either use the older bike's brakes or get the appropriate radial mount lower for those forks, like the billet radial mount lowers from CarpiMoto.it

Or simplify the whole thing and grab SBK forks, and bore/shim the triples like we've all been doing for years with these bikes.

radial brakes. i don't have the scratch to go out and replace my entire front end.

so using the 696 lowers saves money if i can get it to fit other forks.

would love to find some 848 forks.

the triples i have can be easily bored/shimed. and i can get the 5mm spacers for the rotors.

but again, the cheapest i've seen is more than 500.

i gambled on the s4r forks and lost nearly 200 already.

I think I can help, I'm willing to take them apart and give you a solution.
I usually revalve them for $250, and if they are the same stuff than s2r non adjustable they are a piece of cake.
I can also sell you revalved showis if you want.......

I have a question on the rear shock a few have posted here about how much better the bike handles with an after market shock what is the complaint with stocker the 696 I ride has no problem I can find on the street the bike holds it's line and dosn't squat under power and I have no trouble changing my line mid corner it dosn't run wide and with the low powered motor tire wear isn't an issue can some one whose swapped out the rear explain what there problem is the stock shock.
 Thanks

The first problem with the rear shock is your run-on sentence.



And for most people, the problems are essentially solved if resprung for their weight and proper sag set.

 [laugh]

well half the problem solved...

Found a set of revalved/resprung 1198 forks.

now i have to get the rotor spacers and work the triple issue

Will rotor spacers be needed if the stock wheel is used?  The bike in PJFA's write up used a 6 bolt rotor 5 spoke wheel, don't the 696's use the 5 bolt wheel that should have the corect rotor spacing?

no the 696 uses the 6 bolt rotors.

when i finally upgrade wheels i could get a sbk wheel with rotors but that is a ways off.

OK professor I promise to study harder and stay in skool, meanwhile where have you guys been setting the sag ? I would generally have about 5-10mm of static sag and 30-35mm rider sag but there seems to be zero static sag on the 696. It's also my GF bike so I've been putting off even checking rider sag. Any suggestions on sag numbers for the stock shock would be helpful.
 Thanks

for the street I use 35 to 40mm front and 25 to 30mm rear.
static 10mm front and 5mm rear.

Is this on a stock 696 ? On the 2009 I think it's impossible to set front sag (no pre-load adj.)
 Thanks

you can achieve this by replacing your front springs or by adding spacers to the springs, how much do you have now?

Good point I wasn't thinking of replacing the springs but that would work, I always got the correct spring weight then would adj. sag with pre-load adjusters. It's the GF bike and I just started thinking about getting it set for her. I'll check it and see where everything is.

the best results will be having the perfect sag numbers with less preload on the spring, that'll make the suspension smooth.
lets say you have a .95 spring with 15mm of preload and 1.0 with 5mm of preload for the same sag number, I'd choose the 1.0 because being less compressed it'll be less reactive to road imperfections and will absorb them way better

i didn't think anyone made springs for the 696?

they have two different length springs.

depending what numbers he has that can be solved.
you can make a .9 into a 1.0 with a simple coil cut, not need to replace them.