Ducati Monster Forum

My bike is there now after getting a motor swap from Ducpond. Immediately he heard the bike said it was running lean and did throttle body sync + adjusted CO and reset the TPS. He said the vertical cylinder was running at 90% and the horizontal was running at 75%. I'm highly dissapointed in Ducpond; I'll probably never use them again.

Who here has met this guy? He's actually from Italy and answers the phone with "Ducati NA...I meanaaaa Coleman"

I still have a problem that he's looking to. -1 For Ducpond, I repeat; highly dissapointed.

due to the Ducpond's crew generally being on top of things I have to ask, did you give them the opportunity to know what was going on or to recheck it for the problem or go over it again??? I am betting dollars to donuts they would have been more than willing to make you whole or fix said problem if you given them the opportunity(I am assuming you haven't of course).

BTW, there is a thread pinned up for shop reviews and comments that this mighta been more appropriate to place this in, as an FYI.

(P.S.-this is Zooom posting under Dolci's acct. cause I just happen to be seated at her computer reading this)

name and which location?

i am glad to hear coleman has gotten a better ducati wrench.

Yes, Ducpond were the first people to look at the bike. They were the ones to diagnose it with a bent output shaft. They were the people that installed the new motor after servicing it. When I went to test ride, before paying, I mentioned that the bike did not feel right (still) and that I'd like someone else from the shop to ride it again. The owner (Donnie) got very defensive, almost irate, and said "you gave us a motor and we installed it, that's it." He also specifically stated "that bike runs like every other s2r we have had come through the shop." Which was a complete lie.

I'm actually very upset because the simple adjustments that the Colemans (falls church) tech made were so minimal; ducpond should have done them before handing the bike over to me. If the Coleman's tech follows through I may never return to Ducpond.

well...from that POV of circumstance then, I'd have the bike made right with odometer statement to show that it isn't some way off thing as far as time/milage from 1 repair facility to the next and take that reciept and fax a copy of it to Donnie and call him and ask him to review and rethink his stance as far as his reaction to how your bike is/was running...although I question from a 3rd party critical POV for a moment...did you pay for just a motor swap as far as labor or did you pay for tuning and adjustment afterward?( it is not generally an automatic thing to assume that they will do this and a technicians time is a per hour labor rate when it comes to non-warranty jobs like this since it isn't a maintenance with a figured time of completeion for the operation)...with the quote you said Donnie said, it would sound to me sound like you paid for them to swap the motor and not much else...of course not having a statement of what DucPond did and charged you for kinda leaves me to purely speculate...just sayin is all...

anyways...I hope it is just as simple as you say it is to fix and not something completely different or unrelated to what you had done.

Something does not sound right. I stopped at DucPond on my way to Indy, is this the bike that was purchased off the internet and then discovered to have a bent output shaft? Also this would have a stock ECU and therefore has driven many a dealer crazy trying to get the thing running right, most of us have gone to the performnce ECU to solve the problem. Anyway, something does not sound right, DucPond is not perfect but I have found them to be ready to correct issues that they have caused. - Gene

I brought the bike to them saying it was surging. They told me it had a bent output shaft and that it would be $1826 in labor to replace (only) that - there could be more things wrong. I decided it would be a better idea to get a new engine, have it fully serviced, and then install. I requested Ducpond service the motor, swap the motors, and they can keep the old one. They did that, exactly.

The problem, THE BIKE IS STILL SURGING. They stated it runs "like every other s2r." The fact is they didn't ride the ****ing bike. If they did ride the bike they have no idea how an s2r should ride. It took 3 seconds for the Coleman tech to say, ok, "this is all wrong." If Ducpond needed more money they could have said "we need to tune your engine for XX hours." The idle screws were set 3 1/2 turns out, the Coleman's tech said they should be at 1/2 turns out. This is not a TUNE this is a correct factory spec setting for the bike. This small adjustment drastically changed how the bike responded under wider throttle. That is one of the "tune's" he made to factory settings.

I'm getting more and more angry as I think about it.



That's the bike. Why would I need a new ECU to get the bike to ride like it came from the factory? Constant throttle - the bike surges (bounces back and forth). This isn't the 3500-4000 dead spot that you can stay away from. This problem happens past 4000rpm under constant throttle unless you're in 6th.

sorry to say this, but you got exactly what you paid for in that case, it sounds like. transferrance of all external components and whatnot was probably done with the 2 motors side by side, so why would they think they need or have to do any adjustments? They weren't being paid for it and well,and when it boils down in the end, the tech may or may not have suggested tuning time or noted a need for it and that may not have gotten conveyed from tech through the chain to you....but you did get exactly what you paid for...and maybe,just maybe, there are some details in regards to this whole transaction that are being left out...I can't say as I wasn't there...not that I am one to judge...it just seems out of charachter, hence why I comment and question...

okay, so you paid for them to do exactly this...you need for some adjustment/tuning time...I guess you gotta do what you gotta do and spend some more money, or not...or cut your losses and sell the bike and start again or not...from what it sounds like though, you started with a sour taste from the jump with the initial purchase of the bike and you are wreaping the rewards of the fruit that beared forth from the initial purchase...all in the name of trying to save a few bucks probably..not that I blame you...but this is a responsibility you accepted when you spent your money and took your chances...a risk anyone takes buying anything used....

sorry to be harsh...but I am just callin it like I see it and being 100% honest with my POV...

This bike doesn't need "tuning." There is literally a failed component somewhere inside the bike. I'm upset because Ducpond is not close by, when I arrived they said it ran fine. That is not the case at all. I brought them a broken bike - I wanted it fixed 100%. IF they were a good shop and noticed there were more problems they should have TOLD ME. Instead Donnie insisted that the bike ran 100% and might need an exhaust and new ECU to clear up the 3500RPM dead spot. I could give 2 shits about that dead spot, anything above 4000-4500 on constant throttle makes the bike jump back and forth. It takes 3 seconds to hit 4500 and feel the jump - they just didn't do it.

I wish I could cut my loses at this point but I couldn't get half of the correct value of the bike.

You are right, I do feel burned. I'm not looking for the cheapest way to fix something, I want it done correctly. That's why I insisted on having the new motor fully serviced. The Colemans tech think's there is a problem with the throttle bodies, I'm hoping this is true.

I'm not sure what would be fishy to you; I've stated everything factual.

Hell if I know, but the surging problem, not the one caused by the bent output shaft, is well documented amongst S2R1000 owners. I know nothing about the closed system they put on that bike, but was suspect of it as I have read of similar problems with other brands. My S2R, as compared to my other two Ducatis, ran like that from day one, then I started modifying it, bottom line is it did not get right until I put on the full system with the performance ECU and it still surges when cold, but hey it runs more than great once warmed up. BTW, DucPond has done all the work on my S2R and I'm a happy camper. Good luck with your troubles, I hope Coleman works out for you it hasn't for many years for others. - Gene

best of luck with the bike.  I hope you get everything sorted.

I was at Donnie's today (5 hour drive total for me) and he did some work on my RS while I had lunch across the street at the Jamaican place (yum yum).

It was once again a pleasure chatting with him and he will continue to get my service business for our bikes.   

if I remember correctly - the bike is question is an S2R 800 not a 1000.  If that's the case, talking about the chronic surging issues inherent to the 1000 does not apply.  I think there's some talking about apples vs oranges confusion here. 

For the record - what flavor of S2R is this?

800 - it's an 05.

The Colemans tech is named Rafael(sp?). He's very slow but at least he's working; apparently he works for Ferrari two days a week.

i've never heard of a surging issue with the 800

that's an open loop system, it's pretty simplistic. 

probably a bad temp sensor, that's my 2 cents.

Ducpond has a great reputation, there has to have been a miscommuncation.  I am glad you are seeing good service from Coleman because they've never been strong on the Ducati bikes at all.  I rode in once and pulled up to the service door -- idling -- and turned it off.  Clutch was making normal CHANG-CHANG-CHANG.  Service guy was like "what the hell? did you throw a rod?"

yeah.  i was there to pick up some boots.  no work for me, thanks..

My bad, I'm totally confused now since I thought the bike I saw was a S2R1000 and the problem he described is what I had experienced until we completed the Mods - I will shut up now as I know nothing about the S2R800. - Gene

 [moto]

 ;D


Bike is back from Rafael (Colemans). Perfect! The problem? The throttle bodies weren't synced, the b screws were 3 1/2 turns out AND the main culprit - the chain. The chain had 3 links that were so stiff you could not bend them by hand. This caused the bike to jump teeth under hard acceleration or constant throttle. Man I'm so happy. Major +10 to Rafael and Colemans.

Glad to hear you got it sorted finally.

Not sure what the root problem was with your poor experienced with the pond was - shame that you had such bade taste put in your mouth.

But, all that's over for now - time to ride!

first off you have to remember zoom and many other people here are ducpond "faithful" there is nothing you can say that will shake their faith in donnie and the ducpond and they will defend donnie and ducpond through thick and thin against all naysayers.  Its that simple, they may say "I'll be neutral with regard to ducpond if bad work is done" but that simply isn't true and we all know it.

with that in mind, zoom and a few others are "dupond regulars" as regulars they "may" get slightly better treatment at ducpond since they are "regulars" there, so you have to take into account that their experience may be slightly different than yours so that is where they may be coming from.  hey its the truth.

again this is all conjecture but remember being a "regular or local" at a shop does at times have certain advantages.  that's life and we all know it.

i have my bike worked on there, and they do a good job, never had a problem and i like them.

while i have never had a problem, i do not doubt that you may have had a problem, hey stuff happens.

though donnie is a "good guy" he is also a very very accomplished racer with an impressive racing resume and very very very accomplished mechanic with an equally impressive resume and training, which is why i wouldn't put it past a person that is very accomplished to "give an attitude to someone " if they feel their "competance is questioned".  Again stuff happens.

None of us except you and donnie know what transpired exacty, not me or zoom or anyone else can really say that you or donnie was wrong none of use was there and we are just using our best guess, and that is the truth of the situation.

good luck in what you choose to do next, and everyone else make your own decisions.

good luck all and ride safe.

You would be wrong on one point from a personal perpsective. I go to DucPond because they do good work and anytime that isn't the case I won't hesitate to look for other options. They are not perfect but they quickly correct any issues I've had and they have all be minor.

My experience with CPS goes back to 83', when they were Cycles Inc as I recall, and I have tested the waters with them any number of times over the years, Honda, BMW, Ducati all failed experiments. I think I understand their problem, with their location and overhead rate it is difficult to get a good tech for the salary they can afford - I could be wrong but it is the only thing that would explain why many of us have been waiting for a change for years.

You are right about one thing, I want a relationship with my dealer, I put effort into building that relationship and so far that has worked out for me. I try to frequent all the local shops, Victory and Ducati, and give them some of my business, I buy gear and other stuff from CPS and Battleys - been awhile for Battleys. I only buy stuff off the internet when it is something weird that the local dealers won't stock or the price difference is large enough to make a real difference, the people at CPS, Battleys, DucPond are part of our community, they pay state taxes, they have families all good reasons to support their business.

I'd like to see CPS succeed in the Service area, it is good for the brand, it helps the local economy, and maybe it will get more people out riding if they know they have some place close to get their bike serviced. - Gene

been following this and thought I'd comment.

The main reason why I get my bike serviced at CPS is convenience and location. I bought my '06 Dark from them and have had all scheduled maintenance through them. No problems at all. Well except for the last one, they scratched up my painted belt covers but whatever, I can repaint them.

I've bought most of my gear from them--yeah a little pricey sometimes but I try to support the shops. (I used to work at Clinton Cycles a looooong time ago so i know what it's like). My service advisor is GREAT. Actually they're all ok with me, but my advisor is the man. He was able to get replacement fuel tank*s* for me since mine kept deforming.

Anyway, they've been good to me. Maybe I've just been lucky.

I think that is the key with any service, it boils down to the advisor. Most times you don't really get to talk with or deal with the tech. It seems that is the major difference in this particular circumstance with Rafael, but I wouldn't count on that regularly. The more time, generally speaking, a tech takes to talk to and deal with a customer, the less time he gets to spend wrenching and when that occurs more and more the wrenching suffers. A service advisor is key in a scenario as the proper conveyance of detail both ways between the tech and the customer. The tech can turn the hours without rushing to make sure things get done to make up time, and the advisor can liason with the parts department and the consumer to make sure all needs are met for each task. When the advisor is the weak link, all parts of the chain suffer. Often times in this area, an advisor is either twiddling his thumbs looking to suppliment what he isn't making (like in the winter time), or he is swamped with everyone's flood of needs at once. That is a common problem in the area with such a hot/cold-riding/nonriding season of more enthusiast motorcyclists in this area. The lack of regularity makes for inconsistancy in the whole process, as it is a seasonal activity for enjoyment when people can do it, and not as a need for everyday like with their cars.

Does anyone know what happened to Raffaele? I had my bike in Coleman Powersports recently and a "Jeff Dunn" was the tech to work on my bike... any reason why the change?  Raf on vacation?  Left the place?  Thoughts on Jeff as a tech?

Will be interested to know if he's still there or not.

Gave Coleman a ring to see if he was there as I was considering using them for some winter stuff. Rafi is gone and has been replaced by Ducati tech Josh.....

This continues to be a problem in our area across multiple brands, I don't hear about it as much in other parts of the country. HD is an exception I think simply because there are more shops, I don't know for sure. - Gene

Unfortunately Raffaele completely quit the industry.  Quite a loss for us as far as I'm concerned.  Now I don't know where to go!

I am missing Mr italy as well. 
The 748 went in with a cam shaft oil leak ( BADLY) and came back the same way.  Supposely they put the push rod in backwards hence breaking the seal.  WTH!!!  That was my first time taking it to coleman for service.    They did make it right and fixed the bike even  gave me a loaner. Yes I asked  So Aim a little iffy on colemans in falls church at he moment regarding the duc.  I will give them perhaps another shot with the enduro not to certain on the duc though. 

(http://www.ratemymotivational.com/motivationals/17222-DUCATI-Making_mechanics_out_of_riders_since_1946.jpg)

I am on a roll!  ;D

nobody "quits the industry" unless he won the lottery.. wtf?

Yeah, I'm not quite sure...I thought it didn't add up either, but that's what the service manager told me.  I'm personally wondering if some other shop snagged him and they're not telling us because they don't want all his previous customers leaving.

lol

I'm assuming you're talking about the Coleman's at Falls Church.  Casey is still at the Woodbridge location, he's the only guy I'd let work on my Monster.  Plus he works on bikes as a hobby after work, so he's definitely a bike guy  [thumbsup]