Ducati Monster Forum

Take a torx / star bit (buy a cheap-o set at horrible freight) that is slightly larger then the rounded allen socket you have destroyed. As straight as possible, drive (with a hammer) the torx / star bit into the bolt head until the bit has bottomed out (do not remove). Notice that the torx has cut new grooves. This maybe enough torture for the bolt to break loose with an appropriate size ratchet, but i found that a few good whacks with the hand (yes manual) impact was necessary before the ratchet.

RB

Good tip!  Screw extractors can accomplish the same thing if you have them around.  It always helps to apply some "heat" to the bolt in question.  This can be done by tapping on the bolt with a ball peen hammer, or actually warming it up with a torch.  All of the regular warnings about paint and such apply.

i have never had luck with extractors, and i always try them first. this method accomplishes two things.
1. Creating a good biting surface for force to be applied.
2. The pounding of the torx into the bolt and hand impact helps loosen the stiction where the head meets the material it is securing, which is usually th culprit.

This was from my triple bolts on my lower triples.

RB

I had the same problem on the upper triple on an ST I had.  I used a MATCO short screw extractor and did what you described above.  With the screw extractor it helps to tap, then turn slightly, tap again, etc. etc.  I've never tried the Torx bit, though.

At times when I've been *really* desperate I have actually forced a metal object into the screw head.....



....then welded it to the screw. What can I say? It works. Don't melt anything important.

welding....i had lent my welder to a friend that weekend...go figure.
On the same lines though...if you snap the head of a bolt off. take a washer and weld it to the bolt, filling in the hole like a rosette. Then fine a nut, and do the same on top of the washer. Wait a few seconds, and twist out easy with a wrench.

That may be one of my favorite tricks. You can forego the washer if the nut is shallow enough. Plus this concentrates heat where you want it.

RB

You can also use a very small chisel or flat nosed punch.

First, line the chisel (or punch) up with one of the "corners" of the allen head. Give it a couple good solid taps to set a groove. Next, change the angle of the chisel so it will drive in a counterclockwise direction. Remember, lefty loosey....

A few good hits, and it should be loose enough to turn by hand. Or if it's in a slightly confined space, you can insert an appropriately sized flat blade screwdriver into the bolt head, and turn it out as normal.

If you've chiseled/punched it, and it doesn't want to budge, you may need to apply some heat. Just remember to heat the area around the bolt, not the bolt itself.

You can also try a Left-hand drill bit. The drill is designed to cut while turning left. As the drill bites in, it will often grab and turn the bolt loose.

+1

A center-punch also works on the outside of a stuck screw.  Pound a dent in the side with the punch so that you have something to push against, then angle the punch so that it will turn the screw the direction you want.  Usually a few taps is all that it takes.

I learned this years ago from the brother of a friend of mine.  He was working as a mechanic and I was trying to open the cases of a wrecked Kawasaki engine that I had.  I couldn't get two of the screws out.  The mechanic friend had both of the stuck screws loosened in less than half a minute.  No special screw extractors needed.

+1 on this, then again, a lot of older motor bolts will come off you just drill the head off the bolt.

If its aluminum or titanium you can take a small hand saw and saw down a section so that you can fit a flat head screwdriver in it.  This is probably the easiest method that i have used several times.

You can also drill it out... I used the above method because my drill bits weren't sharp? enough to drill through the screw.

I'll reinforce what Ducwrench13 said...If you apply heat, do it to the area around the bolt, and not the bolt itself. If you heat the bolt itself, you can actually make it worse. Also, if you have a steel bolt into aluminum, heating is usually pointless, because it does not work well with aluminum. I have worked with hydraulic components for many, many years and have removed thousands of plugs, valve cartridges, and bolts from aluminum manifolds. The quickest and easiest way (if you have clearance), is to hit the head of the bolt with a couple of good wacks with a hammer, then put on your wrench and turn it out. If you have already rounded the head then using some of the methods mentioned above can be even more effective by hitting the bolt head first. This is effedtive 99% of the time.

On a side note, if you guys are having the problem on your fork clamps, then you are not using the correct torque. This will not only cause the problem that you are seeing but can also cause stiction in your forks and affect your forks working properly. That's one of the critical places where you should follow the specs for torque.

This is one of my favs too. But actually what you are referring to is a "rounded head" not "stripped" Stripped is what happens to the threads when they are actually stripped off of the bolt, usually from cross threading. I don't know if you care or not, just trying to help you out. ;)

good point...i fixed it.

Cool, I was trying to figure out how to type that and NOT sound like a jackass.  [laugh]

I had a baaaadly broken bolt experience this weekend.  Everyone read and check this bolt!  You do NOT want to have to go through what I went through.  Very nerve racking experience.

I was replacing engine bolts with stainless steel ones and I removed the oil passage bolt in the head (by the spark plug). It had a copper washer and had green crusty stuff all around it. I cleaned that off but not finding a SS bolt of similar length, I reinstalled the original. SNAP! right at the shoulder. I didnt even snug it down! Once I pried the bolt head off the allen I was using, I saw that the bolt was completely rotten. It was light colored, brittle looking, and had what looked like metal crystals flaking away inside the allen head hole.

My husband had recently bought left handed drill bits, so this should be no problem...ha. He tried those, easy outs, even picks and pliers to pry out the pieces. Every time the bolt would start to turn, it would immediately strip or crumble because it was so soft and rotted out. The bolt just kept shattering. There was talk of removing the head and taking it to someone. After 3 hours of fighting with it, as a last ditch effort Ryan removed the cam cover just above the rotten bolt. We found the other oil passage hole, so he took his air compressor and shot some high pressure air through there and out the bolt hole - which actually worked! Little pieces of metal shot out all over the garage. The threads were pretty messed up, but at least it was now free from debris. He chased the threads with his drill and tap set and installed an extra SS bolt from the engine bolt kit - amazingly no leaks. We put the original copper washer back on.

I ran this scenario by LT at Desmo Times and he said that bolt is prone to moisture rot.  Any moisture caught in the head tries to escape via that bolt.  He suggests using Permatex on the threads to prevent any future moisture corrosion.

My first attacks are always:
1) penetrating oil
2) whack it with a hammer, maybe using a punch
3) apply a little heat to the area around the bolt

These apply whether it's an allen, screw, or hex bolt.

An easy and non-destructive way to get some more grip on an allen is to get a thin smear of grease on the wrench and then dip it into some fine sand or grit, or use something like rubbing or polishing compound.  The grit fills in the gap between the wrench and stretched hole a little and also give you the bite you need to turn it.  One of the advantages is that if all this goes wrong it usually hasn't done any more damage.

If that fails I usually cut a slot for a large screwdriver or flats for a wrench using a Dremel.

Scott

# 1 is use a good quality set of allen keys as cheap ones aren't made all that accurately and are a bit soft themselves.
Cut a slot with your dremel or hacksaw and use a hand impact driver.
http://www.dansmc.com/stripbolt.htm (http://www.dansmc.com/stripbolt.htm)

Here is a much less sophisticated method for removing allen head bolts if they aren't too destroyed.

Take the allen wrench/key that fits the bolt and dip the end in motor oil. Then dip the end into some fine sand. Yes, I said sand like you find on the gound. Then use it as normal. The sand will provide a nice gripping surface on the inside of the stripped allen head and will also take up the space between the tool and the bolt.

 I have done this a few times and it works great.

+1! I have used this trick before, and it does work.

Another method I have used for a bolt that had been broke off flush is that I use a center punch right in the middle of the broked off bolt body. Give it a couple of good whacks, not only to properly locate your hole, but also to shock the threads a little. Then I used a left handed drill bit (cuts in counter clockwise direction), I go real slow, and use a lot of pressure. As soon at that bit hogs in, the bolt breaks free and usually spins right out.

Just my 2 cents....

 There is a tool called an "easy out" that is basically the same thing.

I've never liked easy outs. Mostly because they are tapered, and when trying to remove the fastner, they apply pressure outwards, pushing the threads against the very hole your trying to get the bolt out of. With the LH drill bit, your using the cutting force of the bit to dig into the end of the fastner and twist it out.

A couple other ways my beau and I have used:

If the bolt is soft enough, with enough of a head left on it you can sometimes mash a set of vise grips on it nice and tight and turn it out.

Also - air chisel! Definietly not ideal, but we've had to do it and it works. Make sure you have a steady hand and wear ear plugs!

I just had one of these this week and I used a Torx head to get it out. It worked well.

Saw a mechanic use a hardened socket this morning on a stripped out allen. He found one a little smaller than the head, set it on top of it with an extension in it and tapped it 2 or 3 times with a brass mallet, put a rachet on it  and putting most of his body weight on it that baby came right out.

Similar idea is to use valve griding compound.  They to specifically make some goop for this job too - but it's like 5x the costs of valve compound.

And if you check in the very 1st of the How To threads - I started one for hard to find tools.  In it there's a link for left hand drill bits.