Ducati Monster Forum

I've been researching, reading, calling people, posted here and at last pulled the trigger.

Used, low mileage 320mm rotors off of a S2R 1000. $150 (Chris at Desmotion/MotoredSports)
Used, low mileage, Goldline Brembo 4 piston 2 pads calipers $100 (Chris  --------   )

New lines, hardware and Brembo coffin 16mm master cylinder. $230. Fred at YoYoDyneti.

Including overseas shipping, my local 25% VAT, custom clearance fees and $250 dealer labor - total cost ~$930
...........................

The questions I had about the scratched rotor and rusty pads - no problem [thumbsup]
One finger stoppies (but I'm probably going to be using two)
Steady and controllable high speed braking.
Perfect lever travel, IMO
Great feel and power

I was initially disappointed, couldn't really feel a substantial difference. Pre install I sanded down my pads and alcohol/soap-scuffed the rotors. Dealer jr tech told me not to bother embedding the brakes, but I remembered the advice I got here - did 10 x 60-05mph panic stops, stopped to smell the heat (yummie), drove around to cool them off, did another 10 panic stops. Damned, how well that turned out! Transformed bike! Still some distance up to 1098/StreetFighter brakes, but I think I covered well over half the gap from stock S2R 800 brakes.

I'm falling in love with my bike all over again.....

Thanks for all the advice given here, it really means a lot [thumbsup]

Normally, you should NOT go until you smell them. But since they were pre-used pads, no biggie. i would NOT do it to new pads. It will "cook" them and make them prone future glazing, noises, hard spots and fading. I do 3-4 30-5mph stops, cool down for a couple of mins, then 3-4 50-5mph stops, cool down, then the high speed stops, making sure not to heat them to the point of getting any smell. I have never had any issuees with any brand of pad doing it this way.

Oh and congrats on the new-found braking love!!  [thumbsup]

Thanks!

So, if I did it too hard/long after all, I might experience fading, maybe vibration from hard spots and over all reduced performance? If I do - scuff, clean, sand and do it over again, but softer? Maybe even new pads? (Just looking for an excuse to try out Ferrodo Platinums)

congrats man! s2r800 is such a perfect bike, it's a shame the brakes and forks got pulled from the parts bin :/

It really is a nice bike [thumbsup] I think it has been fun discovering the facts about the poor brakes and suspension by myself, doing the upgrades and enjoying the results. In my country with the stupid tax levels the S2R 1000 would have cost almost $6,000 more, so I'm still ahead, but I kind of think that the extra power and dry clutch would have been nice. Well, I didn't know then what I know now, so it's too late to reverse the deal - besides modding has gone to far with the bike now, so I'll just enjoy it and use it for what it's worth. At the end of the day, I'm smiling and loving my bike regardless [thumbsup]

If you get any weirdness, I would start over with new pads for sure.  [thumbsup] There! You officially have your excuse to go and buy new pads. Just don't give the wife my name, k?  ;)

No wife.... No problem  8)








Bank account on the other hand....  :o

I'm just about to do the same brake upgrade on my 620 so it's great to hear that you found the upgrade to be worthwhile.  I've got the black brembo 4 spots off a multistrada, low mile 320mm rotors off a mts, lines off an 04 620 which had the 4 spots, about to order Ferodo Platinums as many people seem to recommend them, and I'm just trying to decide if I try the new brakes with my current 15mm master or go to the more 'correct' 16mm master...can't wait to get the new setup on the bike now that I have decent front suspension on there (adjustable S4R showas).

Hi Stopintime.

Can you clarify something for me.
Master cylinder diameter, are they different from S2R800 2 piston to S2R1000 4 piston?
Or can someone confirm part numbers?

Cherrio
Madalf.

2 piston = 15mm
4 piston = 16mm

not sure about the part numbers though...although the size is stamped on the bttom side of the master

Thanks Pauls.

 Another question.
Did you drill the axle for the adjusters, or get a proper S2R1000 axle.
Cherrio.
Madalf

That is such an inapropriate comment since the monster is a parts bin special 90% of the bike is from the parts bin.
you said "parts bin" like it was a bad thing.

The difference from 15mm to 16mm is noticeable, but for me, I think it would have been enough with my stock 15mm. Just a tiny bit more travel at the lever - certainly not too much. I'd say from very short action to short action. YMMV. My 16mm is now brand new and it cost $105 from YoYoDyneti, so I'm happy.


I went from S2R800 rotors to S2R100 rotors without problems or any mods. Adjusters? Same axles AFAIK.

Re-axles
Correct me if I'm wrong here guys but....
The adjustable showas have a compression adjuster on the bottom of the forkleg, accessed up through the axle?
S2R800 has no holes in axle....which is why I asked the question, drilled or replaced???
Cheers.
Madalf

We're mostly talking about brakes here now - changing the rotors doesn't affect the fork bottoms or axle.
-- or is there something I missed reg your question?

Correct - I used the axle from my original 620 forks and had to drill the holes in the axle for adjuster screw access on the new S4R forks.  Took a little bit of time/measuring but cheaper than the $140 from local Ducati parts place for a new axle with holes..

Thank you Pauls for answering the question.
Cheers.
Madalf.

Good Job to see you had it done Stopintime  [thumbsup]

I think it's my fault I put the brake upgrade bug in Stopintimes mind! I did the upgrade to my S2R 800, I got one of the last Goldline Upgrade kits produced for the S2R 800 by Ducati.

The difference in stopping distance and stopping power is amazing, it's not as good as the S4R Radials, but damn! it's still pretty impressive.

Good to see it all worked out!  [moto]

Thanks CairnsDuc [thumbsup]

It's true that you're to blame  8) for my decision to upgrade. You, JTMOTO and some others... (where is JTMOTO btw?)
When it became clear that the kit was discontinued, my mind was already made up - it was only a question of how much money and how advanced.

Which pads did you end up running?

I am still running the original pads, after I bled the system a couple of more times.
I also spoke to a mechanic from the local Honda dealer while I had a tyre replaced and he suggested push the pistons all the way back in, pump them back out and rebleed.

Didn't think it would make any difference, but I have to say it really changed the way the system worked, nice solid feel at the lever and working well.

I have been suffering from the Braking Shudders on the front brakes, so I followed another suggestion from a board member, got a kitchen scour, and gave the discs a quick scrub, a quick bed in and sure enough, shudders are gone. This person (sorry can't remember who it was) said they do it every couple of weeks while washing there bike.

I'll keep using the original pads until the 24K service and then while I am doing a full service, I'll throw in a new set of pads then, I have to order some belts and a shim kit from CA cycle works, so I'll get some new pads at the same time then.

Am I the only one who finds it ironic that the OP's screen name is "stopintime" and he is posting about a brake upgrade?  [laugh]

 In other news.......

 If anyone is looking to do a brake upgrade on their S2R800 I have a complete gold line setup (minus the rotors) for sale in the classified section. I am also including a set of CRG levers and the matching clutch master in the sale.  [thumbsup]

sorry to offend... I will rephrase:
s2r800 is such a perfect bike, it's a shame the brakes and forks got pulled from BOTTOM OF the parts bin :/

Why would you replace the axle?

Adjustable forks, to access the compression adjuster on the bottom of the fork leg (absent from S2R800 nonadjustable forks, thus no S2R800 axle hole needed)!

Glad to see you finally made the swap, you will love them. I hadn't heard that the Ducati kit was discontinued. I must have got one of the last ones, which explains why my kit was a little different than the pics and why it took so long to send to me. I am still here lurking around!

 [clap] [clap]

Almost forgot..... it didn't happen without pictures - here's proof.

Did a track day today and got confirmation - again: WOW

The brakes made everything so much easier and more controlled (especially trail braking), so I was able to work harder on other skills. Also tweaked the suspension and worked on tyre pressure (6 Celsius is about 42F).

(http://i329.photobucket.com/albums/l394/stopintime/tja002.jpg)

(http://i329.photobucket.com/albums/l394/stopintime/tja012.jpg)

(http://i329.photobucket.com/albums/l394/stopintime/tja001.jpg)

The true irony is that it took him so long ... for someone who is probably one of the most well read members (from such an 'exotic' location) he sure took his time ;D

Congrats stopintime having recently finished the suspension upgrade on my 800 (following an earlier brake upgrade) I agree the bike is transformed. I also had basically no idea when I got my bike (well I still have no idea, but I am aware of some 'issues') ... you have the tax impost to make you feel better, I can feel better knowing the S2R1K was not available when I got my bike. My path was definitely more expensive [roll]

I retained the stock master cylinder on my bike knowing I would get more lever travel. This I thought was a good match for my skill level considering the 4-pads were such a step up in power. Now that the suspension is done I can really use the brakes ... smiles all round.

huh - what do you mean? Language barrier....

*
Stopintime took his time to stop in time, you reckon? Stopintime didn't stop in time, in time?  [wine]

I should do it all over again, radial monoblocks, radial billet master and kevlar lines, maybe a racing front tyre - just to live up to my name ;D

The language barrier would be that your english is better than mine [laugh]

Just noting that you seem to read and post in such a wide range of threads and boards ... and armed with all that knowledge it still took you a while to finally upgrade the brakes - you knew it had to happen a looong time ago :D ;D

Not a bad thing - it is quite clear you want to learn what is the right thing to do ... and do the right thing, well done.

Thanks [thumbsup] (btw, I think it's English  ;)

Yes, I was slow reg brakes, but you know how much sweeter things are when you have to wait..... [roll]

****, have you done anything with the forks? I put calipers like those on my 1000, and found lever feel was better,
but for some reason and I have NO good pictures of them..will send some in a while

Mike

Forks have been done, linear springs + something done to the stock valves (and maybe shims?) to give me good rebound + 10W oil, oil level 3" incl spacers. This is not the same job required for Showa adjustables.

Didn't you have the same, but black, calipers on your 1000?

I had 4 pot 2 pad (Black stock) , but I got Silver 4 pot 4 pad from 996? (not Radial) with the matching rear. I was going to put the bigger (s2r 1000) stock calipersz on my buddies s2r 800, but trying to find good used or cheap new 320mm rotors is tough...and now I need a pair of 320's for my st4...DOH!

Hope you had a fun summer... we got a 5 day 3325km ride in late August, HOT HOT HOT, lots of twisties, some beer, etc....

Mike

320 rotors? Fred at YoYoDyneti said he has/coming in, these for $140 each - that's a bargain [thumbsup]

My summer wasn't what I imagined, lots of unpredictable weather - not the 4 day trips weather I wanted, but I got me some track days and day trips. Mileage will be close to 10k miles and those have been of better quality than last year.

My old ('07) S2R800 had a front axle with adjuster holes.  Came that way from the factory. 


Then you would have to change your name to "stopped too soon"

My S2R 800 has the holes in the front Axel, no adjustable forks, but the holes are still there.

42 degrees?  Quite chilly for a track day!

Lower tyre pressure and a few warm up laps made it grip quite well  [thumbsup]
Besides, we reached high 60s later that day [moto]

this is the upgrade i'm looking for as well, im just confused on the rotors,
i find many on ebay for 748 (i was told they should work) the only problem i see is some have a 5mm some a 10mm and some no offset at all, then you have snowflakes stile or round hole style.
whitch ones do i wan't/need? or do i need to get calipers first and take it from there?

thanks in advance
Oni

Oni

I don't know if 748 will fit, but someone does, for sure. 748R (R!) has a deeper offset.

Snowflake, ordinary or cookie cutter/pizza style - it doesn't matter regarding fit. Pizza style has steel carriers and are a tiny bit heavier.

Offset is a strange story. The rotors I used are the ones commonly referred to as "10mm offset", but they are not actually 10mm. They are 5mm, 7mm, 9mm or 11mm depending on how they are measured.

5mm - on a table, outside up, measured from table to inside of rotor
7mm - as above, but measured to the middle of the 4mm thick rotor. This is how Brembo does it.
9mm - as above, but measured to the outside of the rotor
11mm - as above, but including the buttons


http://www.yoyodyneti.com/ProductInfo.aspx?productid=08.4899.82 (http://www.yoyodyneti.com/ProductInfo.aspx?productid=08.4899.82)
http://www.yoyodyneti.com/ProductInfo.aspx?productid=08.4899.93 (http://www.yoyodyneti.com/ProductInfo.aspx?productid=08.4899.93)

Fred at YoYoDyne knows all this - call him if you don't get confirmation about the 748 question

just checked out yoyodyne site, great selection btw.
are those prices for single rotors or pair? i wonder (assuming single)

Prices are for single rotors. $140-150 is cheap compared. You would usually pay 150 (?) for a pair used, with all the unknown factors included.

After one or two k miles, I did feel some woop woop woop upon very light braking at slow speeds. It went away after scotch brite scuffing the rotors with brake cleaner followed by the lighter bedding-in procedure you recommended. So, I guess it took care of a beginning hard spot situation. I suppose it won't hurt to do that once in a while?

748 rotors will fit fine, I put them on my 695 and they worked.

well i got the Calipers from fleabay,got the rotors on the way from a fellow member here,now the master whad do i need to look for? i have the stock coffins as of right now (assuming 13mm) and i put pazzo levers on them a few months back,the coffin style don't really bother me (i'm not good enough of a rider to know the difference between coffin/radial and so on [laugh]).

i seen on yoyodynes website they carry coffin with bigger bore/piston whitch would accomodate my levers,what size would i need? and whats the difference in the brake lines do i need bigger line(diamater)? or can i use the ones i got?

Hope you can help me
Thanks Oni

Your clutch master is most likely 13mm. Stock S2R800 coffin brake master is 15mm. I got a new 16mm coffin.

I'm glad I got the bigger master, it's firmer - the action is shorter and I like that. If you're on a budget it's not required - at least you can wait - then change it later if you feel the need. The 16mm looks excactly the same as the 15mm and will accomodate your levers.

In any case you should adjust the brake lever for the best/sharpest action - scroll down to the bottom... http://www.ducatisuite.com/leverchange.html (http://www.ducatisuite.com/leverchange.html)

However, new lines are required. Yoyodyne-Fred made a custom set for me (~$120). The lines connect differently at the calipers, that's why. The ones I got have banjos which can easily be rotated on the lines - came in handy. Make sure the banjo to the master has the correct angle/bend - the one I got didn't and I was only saved by the cutouts in my SpeedyMoto top triple. My line has a T-split in the middle, like stock set up (only one line up to the master), but I think it's even better to get two separate lines all the way up to the master, where they connect to the master by a double banjo bolt (just a longer one). I had no room for that due to my PoorDucRider fairing stays. Check your bike for clearance before choosing this option.
It took me some time to figure out the best routing for the new lines, but that was mostly fun.

WARNING there's a very small plastic piece in the master - hidden in a hole in the master, between the brake light switch and the lever. It's very easy to loose if it falls out (took me 20 minutes to find it). Make sure you have it under observation ;)


If I'm being unclear - ask again. Done correctly you'll be VERY happy with the result [thumbsup] 

 [clap]
i knew i could count on you to responde [thumbsup]
thanks this/you has ben very helpfull
Oni

What?? No more questions?? There's GOT to be more....

 [laugh] [laugh]

I'm just happy to be able to help [thumbsup]

Info on bedding in theory and process:

http://www.stoptech.com/tech_info/wp_bedintheory.shtml (http://www.stoptech.com/tech_info/wp_bedintheory.shtml)

I followed that procedure (10 x 60/05 hard/panic stops)(x2) with cooling in between. The brakes smelled burned at the end, which I was told here could mean I overdid it. YMMV, but I had some minor hard spots as the result.

I scuffed the rotors with scotchbrite pads and break cleaner, did it over again, but softer - 8 x 50/10 once around. Haven't felt any hard spots since.

I'm no expert, but my guess is that stock Brembo brake parts shouldn't get the full treatment.

I didn't see where you said what pads you're using, but if you've still got the stock Brembo pads in, you would see a big benefit changing them out.  I replaced the stockers on the Monster with DP street pads and was amazed at the difference, and I completely eliminated the judder I repeatedly got with the Brembos, no matter what I did to clean and bed them.  I went up one level when I put pads on the SS and they are better still, and no hot-spotting at all no matter how hard I'm using them.  I had EBC on the SS and the feel and bite on the DP's is way better.

Can you tell me more about the DP pads - parts # or links maybe?
I've only seen good explanations on CA Cycleworks.
Can you compare the DPs to one or two specific pads on the CA chart?

http://www.dp-brakes.com/products.php# (http://www.dp-brakes.com/products.php#)

Ducvet at Club House  http://www.clubhousemotorsports.com (http://www.clubhousemotorsports.com) (look on the minor sponsors board) is where I got mine and he can give you the best options.

I had EBC HH on the SS, and I put on whatever DP pad is the most aggressive before the race pad (sorry, I forget the #).  The EBC felt like wood compared to the DP.  Very good initial bite, but not abrupt, and progressive linear grip from there.  Easy 1 finger tire howling.  The only downside is that now the Monster brakes feel like crap.   ;D

can someone explain the difrence between the two

http://www.yoyodyneti.com/ProductInfo.aspx?productid=10.4620.47 (http://www.yoyodyneti.com/ProductInfo.aspx?productid=10.4620.47)
http://www.yoyodyneti.com/ProductInfo.aspx?productid=10.4620.86 (http://www.yoyodyneti.com/ProductInfo.aspx?productid=10.4620.86)

The one ending in .86 shows as 'out of stock'.

that's funny,
!!! [evil]

Even though the picture is probably the same, I think the difference is the size of the reservoir.
Later coffin-Monsters all (?) have the larger reservoir.